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Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary - Estate Announcement Page 66

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

Totally agree, the Dangerous rehearsals are amazing in that regard!
 
Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

regarding 'more energy' to stuff that is not rehearsed like 2003 BET awards, Upside Down with Diana etc.. the way I see it it wasn't more energy, but more so impacts us differently because we've never seen it.. It's not like the 10th JAM performance we see and know the choreography, what he's going to sing, how he's going to sing it etc.. He grabs the mic and adlibs and freestyle, it's more refreshing for us cuz it' new. That's why we (I assume i'm not the only one) sometimes forwards the Bilie Jean performance to the dance break at the end and just watch those because sections are improvised... And that' part of the reason why when we first heard MJ yell out "Tell me what about it" during earth song we freaked out.. It wasn't traditionally in the song and not how he commonly performs it.

Anything untraditional is intriguing to us after watching hundreds of hrs of Michael.. HBO special 1995, seeing MJ perform specific songs In his shorter hair HISTORY look, or even why everyone peed themselves to see MJ perform Human Nature and TWYMMF in 1996 Brunei.. It was different and new to us.
 
Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

^Sure, of course part of the appeal is that it is new to us, you are right. But I don't think that's all there's to it. I think beyond that there really is that additional element that those impromptu, improvised moments contain. As someone watching you can tell/feel whether something is spontaneous or not.
 
Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

^ Ditto... I agree with that!

speaking about Dangerous tour rehearsals.. Gosh I wish we were able to see perform that in front of a live audience just once.... and was able to stand and dance! lol
 
Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

Themidwestcowboy said:
That's why I absolutely adore the Dangerous Tour Rehearsals. He had forgotten a lot of the choreographies and just went with it and had fun. Doing moves he usually never does, singing songs differently. Love it.
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I think I could watch the Dangerous Tour rehearsals all day and all night and never tire of it. It's one of the most delightful things I've ever watched.
 
Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

Guys any news regarding the topic ''off the wall docu''?
 
Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

mano said:
Guys any news regarding the topic ''off the wall docu''?
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Well, according to Zack44 (who posted this at the end of August):

Zack44 said:
I just met Spike Lee in person at the Brooklyn Loves Michael Jackson event today. I asked him how the documentary is going and he told me it's going well and he just wrapped up interviews for it yesterday.
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So yeah, it's being edited. No news of a release date yet.
 
Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

Thanks for clearing that out :)
 
Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

I thought it was a master stroke on Spikes part to include the Ebony interview in Bad25. I hope he does the same on OTW with the Sylvia Chase interview.
 
Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

As much as I love that interview, is there really anything about the production of Off the Wall in that interview? It definitely has some great performances of "Off the Wall" tracks from the Destiny Tour though.

I can't really think of any other interviews around this period of time though, perhaps some audio interviews I can't think of atm, I'd have to look.
 
Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

^I agree with Barbee on this one. Captures the moment...the era really well. It will open some casual listener's eye.
 
Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

Coduscus said:
As much as I love that interview, is there really anything about the production of Off the Wall in that interview? It definitely has some great performances of "Off the Wall" tracks from the Destiny Tour though.

I can't really think of any other interviews around this period of time though, perhaps some audio interviews I can't think of atm, I'd have to look.
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Yeah, audio interviews definitely. Like this one (it has several parts on YT):

 
Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

Themidwestcowboy said:
How is that not a fact? It is a fact that 447 concerts were filmed throughout Destiny all the way to History. Now whether all concerts exists today and what kind of shape they're in and if most of them are archived is up for speculation. But the fact still remains that MJ taped all of his concerts.
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I think this statement may have been true if Michael had to personally manage all of his video footage. He had people who's job it was to manage these things. Even the Bad Tour VHS he had was made for him from the masters and sent to him. I think Mike was a serious pack rat. He saved his nephews diapers now. Just like he hires people like accountants to manage his money. I'm sure he had an archivist of some sort for everything.
 
Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

charismatic said:
I think this statement may have been true if Michael had to personally manage all of his video footage. He had people who's job it was to manage these things. Even the Bad Tour VHS he had was made for him from the masters and sent to him. I think Mike was a serious pack rat. He saved his nephews diapers now. Just like he hires people like accountants to manage his money. I'm sure he had an archivist of some sort for everything.
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Totally ott, but for the bolded part - wth?
 
It is a mistake in my view to not release the Triumph tour with any OTW offering. When Bad25 was released and feedback requested from a Sony representative on this forum, I posted that the issue was packaging. That issue was cured with Xscape however; the same mistake is bound to happen with OTW.

Michael’s musical legacy must not and should not be regulated to ridiculous, unwanted remixes by current contemporaries. To experience Michael perform, one must see Michael perform. There is no need for an inferior, inept hologram when the Triumph footage exists in quality that is superior to the Wembly show offered with Bad25. The Triumph concerts were considered OTW concerts as Victory was considered Thriller concerts by some at the time.

It is simply foolish to not release Triumph only for fear it promotes Michael's career as a group leader as opposed to a solo artist. That transitioning happened during the OTW era! Michael's full musical legacy - which includes his career as The Jackson Five front man - has yet to be managed correctly by his estate. It is NOT the Jackson brothers who are preventing the release of any Jackson concert as they do not have that control. It is Michael’s estate as they prevented the release of other footage of Michael since his passing.

Coduscus;4107449 said:
Aren't all pop star shows the same in a given tour, in terms of the determined setlist and general choreography?
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For the most part you are correct. I do not know any performer who does not have some type of performance plan before setting foot onstage. Some of the comments regarding Michael not being a spontaneous performer are a bit confusing as Michael stated he appreciated spontaneity in a performance. In his autobiography, he stated his Billie Jean performance for the short film and M25 was, for the most part, spontaneous.

SoCav;4107579 said:
^Definitely true, it's the freedom gained from having a simple music show without theatrics that allows a guy like Springsteen to play something like 50 different songs out of the 60 he plays in total on back-to-back nights. When you involve theatrics, you limit yourself with pyro, complicated choreography, and so on.

However, it's just not how he was trained, not the path he chose and just not really who he was as an artist imo. He was too much of a perfectionist. That same perfectionism gave us all the amazing work he produced though.
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Agreed.
 
Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

Not that it really matters but when Michael said Motown 25 was pretty much spontaneous I think it's pretty obvious it was not.. I believe he stated that to build the performance as in.. (The most famous performance of all time was spontaneous and was THAT good).. For hype I believe. His spontaneous movements are different than what he showed that night.

Regarding Off The Wall Documentary we are at 36 years since the album release... I hope to get something soon! not wait til the 40th anniversary.. and why we have not gotten a triumph concert released is beyond me... When Mike was around it was my guess that it was his perfectionism not being happy with them enough to release... That's what I tried telling myself, but there are things to "fix" that.. We did get the Dangerous concert and he was confident enough to do it live on HBO. so there goes that...

I would love a box set of each era.. 1. album 2. concert supporting that album 3. documentary surrounding album.. Even toss in a cool booklet and packaging THAT I would wait in line for!
 
Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

KOPV said:
Not that it really matters but when Michael said Motown 25 was pretty much spontaneous I think it's pretty obvious it was not.. I believe he stated that to build the performance as in.. (The most famous performance of all time was spontaneous and was THAT good).. For hype I believe. His spontaneous movements are different than what he showed that night.

I would love a box set of each era.. 1. album 2. concert supporting that album 3. documentary surrounding album.. Even toss in a cool booklet and packaging THAT I would wait in line for!
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Your box set idea sounds wonderful. I'd add the rehearsals for the tours since I'm crazy for behind the scenes stuff.

I agree with your opinion on Billie Jean in Motown 25. It definitely wasn't as rehearsed and polished as we saw later on but it was definitely worked out. But I think that the spontaneity occurred just a few nights before in his kitchen.

That would have been confirmed if we got to see his rehearsal when the big Motown 25 set got released last year. Suzanne dePasse said it was when she saw the rehearsal she knew it had to be filmed. And talked to him about it then. Final editing rights etc.

It has occurred to me that the Estate wouldn't permit the release of the footage because of that spontaneous embellishment. That doesn't bother me at all-I'd rather see the rehearsal.
 
Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

KOPV said:
Not that it really matters but when Michael said Motown 25 was pretty much spontaneous I think it's pretty obvious it was not.. I believe he stated that to build the performance as in.. (The most famous performance of all time was spontaneous and was THAT good).. For hype I believe. His spontaneous movements are different than what he showed that night.
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barbee0715 said:
I agree with your opinion on Billie Jean in Motown 25. It definitely wasn't as rehearsed and polished as we saw later on but it was definitely worked out. But I think that the spontaneity occurred just a few nights before in his kitchen.

That would have been confirmed if we got to see his rehearsal when the big Motown 25 set got released last year. Suzanne dePasse said it was when she saw the rehearsal she knew it had to be filmed. And talked to him about it then. Final editing rights etc.
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I disagree and I believe spontaneity is being confused with unpreparedness.

Adding: watch Michael speak about the crotch grab in his dance performances during his interview with Oprah. That is difference between spontaneity and unpreparedness.

Michael did not need to hype his own performance in his autobiography years after the fact. I believe Michael's account of the performance.

barbee0715 said:
It has occurred to me that the Estate wouldn't permit the release of the footage because of that spontaneous embellishment.
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I doubt that. Reasoning for the Estate always points to financials.
 
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Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

^
we will have to agree to disagree with some things.. and it's not hyping the performance but it hypes the enigma that is MICHAEL JACKSON. Michael was very smart and knew what to say to create the character the built. he made being MJ a brand, and hype, mystery, and just being perfect at everything with ease is a part of that..

And I know Mike made it sound like he did not put thought into his crotch grabs.. "You don't think about it, it just happens.", I think we all know that crotch grabs were pre meditated. For what reason THAT is where the debate can be, some will say controversy.. Mike on set would get crap for grabbing his crotch before doing it, and I mean come on.. On Black Or White he unzipped his pants so he can zip them back up.. That's all pre meditated.



As a semi side note - there are reasons why virtually everybody that met him said he was so different than they pictured.. Cuz the Michael in his personal life was not the same Michael Jackson (Brand) he portrayed. It's PR!

Not saying either are bad, I love both images for different reasons and it boggles my mind he was smart enough to do it the way he did...
 
KOPV, yes, agree to disagree.

The discussion was spontaneity during a live performance and I will give Michael his due in that regard. I believe Michael’s account of the M25 performance and his preparation for it. While the crotch grab became a signature and controversial move for him, I do not believe that move was premeditated as often as you may believe; especially during live performances night after night.

The filming of the short film Black Or White contained edited performances which allowed for spontaneity particularly in Michael’s panther sequence. The unzipped pants was not a dance move, it was an attempt at humor. We would have to know if that attempt was already written in a script before filming to correctly define it as premeditated.
 
Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

I think the crotch grab was sometimes pre-meditated, but there were many times it was spontaneous. Often I've danced to Michael's music and I've placed my hand over my crotch out of spontaneity. "You don't think about it, it just happens" is completely true in some cases. I don't know if I'd even call what MJ does most of the time 'crotch grabbing' since all he does is place his hand over it, very rarely does he actually... 'grab it'... :lol:
 
Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

^ look at that.. Tygger and I agree lol
 
Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

well apparently there was going to be an announcement last month. hope this is still happening!
 
Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

Tygger said:
KOPV, yes, agree to disagree.
The unzipped pants was not a dance move, it was an attempt at humor. We would have to know if that attempt was already written in a script before filming to correctly define it as premeditated.
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This video makes it clear that it was definitely premeditated :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osCBNVUJixI
 
Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

End of October and still no announcement.
 
Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

Augustino said:
This video makes it clear that it was definitely premeditated :D
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If it was in the script (or a storyboard) we would know it was planned from the start. If not planned from the start, it was an improvised joke that was rehearsed.
 
Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

Obviously not happening this year
 
Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

maybe postponed to the next year.
 
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