144000
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Billie Jean 78;3762887 said:
No they don't. Because, somebody on here will dispute it.
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Statement from MJ Estate Pg 12 #170 / New Yorker - Did Thriller Really Sell a 100 Million Copies?
- Thread starter Moonwalker.Fan
- Start date
No they don't. Because, somebody on here will dispute it.
"The Guinness guy didn't said albums neither his certificate."
Yes, the award plaque, that someone in this thread posted a photo of, does say 104 million Thriller ALBUMS. In the award ceremony, Beyonce says 104 million Thriller ALBUMS, and in the Diamond Award film clips of Michael which accompany the awards, the words are actually written across the screen--104 million Thriller ALBUMS sold. That's A-L-B-U-M-S.
Yes, the award plaque, that someone in this thread posted a photo of, does say 104 million Thriller ALBUMS. In the award ceremony, Beyonce says 104 million Thriller ALBUMS, and in the Diamond Award film clips of Michael which accompany the awards, the words are actually written across the screen--104 million Thriller ALBUMS sold. That's A-L-B-U-M-S.
Billie Jean 78
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144 said:
Not if it's done with some credibility!
144000
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Billie Jean 78;3762990 said:
somebody will believe it's not credible enough. we all know the definition of credibility. it means whatever one wants to believe. isn't that the great irony? everybody throws around the words truth and facts but when it is all said and done, it is all overruled by what someone wants to believe. So it makes the word credibility seem so relative, since there are so many individual beliefs. Suddenly, credibility is relative. Funny thing is, The whole world is talking about Michael..and he reached further than any artist before him, and is the standard of comparison, today. I'll take my chances and say a good deal of those people reached into their pockets. And i'll once again, consider how big the world is. And how many years time, Michael had, to build his empire.
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Billie Jean 78;3762887 said:
The WorldMusic Awards are certified by an international organization that collects worldwide data on sales. I gave a link to that earlier, so please go back if you want and find it, 'cause I can't collate everything (thanks). The Recording Industry of America collects data on sales in USA and they are quoted in a Billboard article as verifying Thriller album sales of 29 million as of 2012. So that's what every country has to do is report the data on sales worldwide. To be fair, this is a monumental task to do it for each individual recording artist and each individual release. One good source might be the individual recording comapnies that produce the products, in this case SONY and Columbia records. The Recording Industry of Japan puts out statistics but I had trouble reading their info and their charts. Sales of the Thriller album are in various forms--disks, cassettes, cds, downloads--as the shifts in technology took place over the decades.
Here is from Billboard on RIAA sales:
"Thriller" is the best-selling studio album in U.S. history with 29 million sold, according to the RIAA. It is locked in a tie with the Eagles' collection "Their Greatest Hits 1971-1975 for the overall domestic title. [Worldwide, estimates range as high as 110 million albums sold.] On the Billboard charts, the album became the first to generate seven Hot 100 top 10s -- with "Billie Jean" and "Beat It" going to No. 1. The album spent the most weeks (37) atop the Billboard 200 of any album by a single artist.
http://www.billboard.com/features/m...son-s-thriller-at-30-classic-1008032762.story
Personally,I think the burden of proof to refute the over 100 million albums sold needs to be on the ones who dispute this rather than on the ones that claim it, b/c the award was verified by Guinness B of WR and by the organization that verifies the sales for the World Music Awards (and they do it for many other artists, such as Mariah Carey, not just Michael). To dispute the award for Michael in this case actually is disputing all the other awards given to the other artists at the World Music Awards. And if someone wants to do that IMO they need some reliable evidence that all these awards need to be questioned, something that frankly I think goes beyond the capacity of us on the forum b/c you need to have access to worldwide sales data and you need to know how to interpret accurately what you find, so at this point I trust the GB of WR and the World Music Awards.
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felipemj
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I don't think Guinness is proof of truth because they work with other people numbers (probably was Sony which gave them), but the plaque doesn't say albumS, does "album with sales". Again: the WMA can have misconcepted... Beyonce anyway is the biggest liar artist of all time. Still: to your whole point make sense, you need to answer my question do you believe Thriller sold 40 million during the trial or all the numbers from 82 to 2006 including RIAA certificates were terribly wrong?jamba;3762989 said:
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Petrarose
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Jamba that article you posted from the writer^^--I am still amazed & I am so grateful I did not see it on THAT day. I cannot believe that someone wrote something like this after a person's tragic death. Now that piece there sets the tone of who Whyman really is, so there is no need to show him the truth of anything. He, essentially, is lost & was lost as a human a long time ago. He will never listen to comments after his article that shows him other facts....
Snow White luvs Peter Pan
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In the Guinness certificate says Thriller sold 104 million albums (vinyls, cd's, recorsd, cassettes) on October 14th, 2006, so I'll stick with that information no matter what racist white "journalist" or other detractors say about it.
The video and photo to remind people again about it.
[video=youtube;FqmwBFPrih0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=FqmwBFPrih0&feature=endscreen[/video]
<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v650/Gaby1990/?action=view&current=michael-poses-with-his-seven-guinness-world-records-awards25282552529-m-1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v650/Gaby1990/th_michael-poses-with-his-seven-guinness-world-records-awards25282552529-m-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket" ></a>
The video and photo to remind people again about it.
[video=youtube;FqmwBFPrih0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=FqmwBFPrih0&feature=endscreen[/video]
<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v650/Gaby1990/?action=view&current=michael-poses-with-his-seven-guinness-world-records-awards25282552529-m-1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v650/Gaby1990/th_michael-poses-with-his-seven-guinness-world-records-awards25282552529-m-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket" ></a>
144000
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Petrarose;3763233 said:
i had posted earlier. You can respond to Mr. Wyman on his Twitter account @hitsville
Petrarose
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FeliI know you keep going back to pre-trial numbers as a benchmark, but it seems they did not have the correct numbers even prior to the trial, because they were focusing on Mainly American with some European and Japanese sales too. This is the same method used by Whyman in his article. Therefore, many regions of the world were still under-counted or ignored & it does not necessarily mean that the figure jumped from 40mil to 100 mil. Especially during thriller when Michael burst into the global music scene and made many jealous, they would never go searching through all these places in Asia for example, (look above) & get accurate numbers of what is going on.
Remember it is usually reporters who bring these figures to the public, since they are the ones who write about them. Now look at what Whyman has done, & you can bet that the other journalists are working the same way he is. If you hate a man, you are not going to spend time to gather information to show him up, especially if you need to do some hard work. The more I think of every thing and read all the posts, is the more I think now that Thriller did make it to the 100 mil ballpark.
I am getting a sense that you do not know much about sales in the 80s either, even in your country from your statements about singles in your area. Sometimes people who do not have experience of the craze of Thriller, do not understand how dramatic that time was. I mean songs from that album were everywhere--radio, clubs, schools. Even Oprah had an episode of a girl who wanted her mom to burn her hair when Michael's hair caught on fire, so the 80s was a big Michael buying time.
Remember it is usually reporters who bring these figures to the public, since they are the ones who write about them. Now look at what Whyman has done, & you can bet that the other journalists are working the same way he is. If you hate a man, you are not going to spend time to gather information to show him up, especially if you need to do some hard work. The more I think of every thing and read all the posts, is the more I think now that Thriller did make it to the 100 mil ballpark.
I am getting a sense that you do not know much about sales in the 80s either, even in your country from your statements about singles in your area. Sometimes people who do not have experience of the craze of Thriller, do not understand how dramatic that time was. I mean songs from that album were everywhere--radio, clubs, schools. Even Oprah had an episode of a girl who wanted her mom to burn her hair when Michael's hair caught on fire, so the 80s was a big Michael buying time.
"you need to answer my question do you believe Thriller sold 40 million during the trial or all the numbers from 82 to 2006 including RIAA certificates were terribly wrong?"
I think we have a slight language issue here but I will say this, according to a book by Martin Gitlin (Baby Boomer Encyclopedia) the GB of WR certified sales of Thriller album worldwide in 1990 as 65 million. That was 8 years after its release in 1982. So from 1990 to 2006, to my mind, is enough time for another 40 million sales--yes indeed. Keep in mind how many billions of people are on this planet--7--so sales of 100 million over 30 years is not too hard for me to accept. Keep in mind Michael's tours after 1990--Dangerous, HIStory--and all the people who went to see him perform, saw his short films, etc. etc. etc.
I think we have a slight language issue here but I will say this, according to a book by Martin Gitlin (Baby Boomer Encyclopedia) the GB of WR certified sales of Thriller album worldwide in 1990 as 65 million. That was 8 years after its release in 1982. So from 1990 to 2006, to my mind, is enough time for another 40 million sales--yes indeed. Keep in mind how many billions of people are on this planet--7--so sales of 100 million over 30 years is not too hard for me to accept. Keep in mind Michael's tours after 1990--Dangerous, HIStory--and all the people who went to see him perform, saw his short films, etc. etc. etc.
Hi, Petra, sadly, I did read the usual lies about Michael rehashed after his immediate passing. I think the various papers did not know how big the reaction from the public was going to be, how devastated and really grieving people would be, how the whole world stopped. I read some obits that were just cut and paste jobs, referring to all the usual attacks on Michael, and then when you read the endless comments (hundreds) you could see people were emotionally hit so hard, people who literally could not sleep all night that's how upset they were. I think the journalists (so called) didn't see it coming b/c they had been trashing him for so long they thought that people had bought their bs 100%. They didn't see how Michael short circuited them and went directly to people's hearts and made a big impact. That said, Bill Wyman's is one of the worst of the worst. I think some people got into a groove of attacking Michael and they tried to make it so that it just wasn't cool to think he or his music was cool any more. So they were shocked when after his death he sold more than any living artist.
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felipemj;3762806 said:
read again my first post about it especially the first line.
so I gave emphasis on the singles were sold in other formats.
and certainly had a good selling at the time
The person who wrote this article dislikes or dare I say hates Michael and worships Elvis for example. The guy who wrote this article supports a book that says Michael had no nose. The guy who wrote this article is trying to downplay Michael's achievements. I would rather take the word of the guiness book of records or someone like Joe Vogel who acutally took the time to research Michael's stats and stuff. I have to question the timing of the article and why all of sudden it needs to be debated? People couldn't stand the praise Michael got in life and some people can't stand in now that his gone. There needs to be more Joe Vogels in the world than this guy.
Michael achieved many records and accomplishments that no matter how hard some may try to downplay or try to question it won't work. Like Michael said lies run sprints and the truth runs marathons. Now that Michael is gone the lies are not acceptable and there will always be someone to speak the truth.
Michael achieved many records and accomplishments that no matter how hard some may try to downplay or try to question it won't work. Like Michael said lies run sprints and the truth runs marathons. Now that Michael is gone the lies are not acceptable and there will always be someone to speak the truth.
Billie Jean 78
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144 said:
Ok, I agree on this one that the word credibility in these days is overused and even abused. How about "common sense" than?
jamba;3762997 said:
Fair enough, but the organisation that gave Michael the award in 2006 could at least have made it a little clearer how they got that number, maybe publish a specification of the sales per country of per album.
Plus... how is it possible that Thriller USA is still listed as having sold 29M ? I'm quite sure the 29M number has been mentioned before Michael's passing (officially by the RIAA) and we know that in 2009 allone he sold lots of Thriller albums.
felipemj
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I still think Guinness uses the total records thing, because Michael and Quincy didn't said that number at the time and had no reason to. I'm starting to believe they added every compilation that had a Thriller track to the number... that would explain everything. Anyway, it's clear there are numbers for all tastes, so we can be cool about this and live knowing none of us knows how many albums Thriller soldjamba;3763237 said:
144000
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Billie Jean 78;3763305 said:
common sense is overrated and overused and abused, too. That's where people start getting into comparing themselves to each other and getting personal, if it doesn't 'sound right' to somebody. and getting the last word. and..ultimately..just not wanting to give Michael Jackson his due as the greatest most far reaching, selling impacting artist, in the farthest corners of the world, which really puts them right there with those who want to 'put him in his place', like media. Denial is a huge river. Michael is sales king. Guiness has done enough research. 40 mill and hundred mill are secure with MJ. Frankly it's easier to believe because it's hard to believe a black male artist would just have something like this handed to him...even today. He must have really did it for it to be true.
Besides..soo many people work with the Guinness Book. They all have come to a general concensus about Michael's numbers. It's hard to get any two people to agree. So, it's meaning something true for them all to come together and agree that 40 and 100 mill are true for Michael.
Finally, it's one thing to say one is 'objective' and 'neutral'..until one tries extra extra hard to make repeat posts trying extra hard to deny that Michael reached these numbers, on a Michael fansite. ultimately, that person is not objective or neutral anymore, unless they're willing to settle with posting, once. They are non neutral and non supportive of Michael, after they become extra repetitious with what we have already seen them say, many times.
But let's talk common sense. How big is the world? There are at least seven billion in it. How long has Michael had a career? 39 years. How many is one hundred million? Only one third of the United States, which is really small in comparison to the rest of the world. What in blazes makes you think he can't reach one hundred million in a world of seven billion in thirty nine years? Are you really trying to discount the people in the far reaches of the world that you want to say don't exist and don't like Michael Jackson? Do you want to deny the older woman in Turkey who said she didn't know Michael's name but knew he 'screamed and grabbed himself'? Are you (you, being whoever, in general)really denying there are more like this woman, outside of markets officially counted, who somehow bought MJ's music over a long long stretch of thirty nine years? Do you agree that that is a longgg time? Do you agree that it's plenty of time to reach 100 million? Especially if a whole lot of Thriller is sold in 2009? Even before then, because thirty nine years is a longgg time?
If a person wants to think 'average' thinking, then they would close their eyes. And if they heard that a person with a high voice of a boy that looked like a tall boy, whose skin would go from dark to really light, would be successful, and you were honest with yourself, you would say 'no'.
Also, if you were in the time before the light bulb was invented and somebody told you the light bulb would be invented, and if you were asked if it would be invented and you were honest with yourself, you would say 'no'.
And if you were asked if this man who seemed like a boy, whose skin turned magically from dark to light, would sell one hundred million copies of records, and you were honest with yourself, you would say 'no'.
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HIStory
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Billie Jean 78;3763305 said:
It was certified 29x platinum in August, 2009. Since then according to Nielsen SoundScan it sold 2 million more, so it should be around 31 million by now. But the Estate/Sony should get it certified (for which they have to pay) to make it 31x platinum. I kind of wished they had done it for the album's 30th anniversary. Would have been fitting.
Statement From The Estate Of Michael Jackson Regarding Thriller
We understand that loyal MJ fans are reacting to the article that appeared in the New Yorker questioning the sales of Michael’s “Thriller” album. Let’s state this for the record: “Thriller” has sold MORE THAN 100,000,000 ALBUMS WORLDWIDE. In addition, the number of singles sold cannot even be tallied. It is far and away the largest selling album in record industry history which, ironically, the same reporter noted in the December issue of the same magazine. Quite frankly, we are unaware of the credentials of the blogger in the New Yorker, and point out that it is his opinion only, and not based on the facts of the extraordinary 30-year sales history of Michael’s masterpiece.
- John Branca and John McClain, Co-Executors, The Estate Of Michael Jackson
We understand that loyal MJ fans are reacting to the article that appeared in the New Yorker questioning the sales of Michael’s “Thriller” album. Let’s state this for the record: “Thriller” has sold MORE THAN 100,000,000 ALBUMS WORLDWIDE. In addition, the number of singles sold cannot even be tallied. It is far and away the largest selling album in record industry history which, ironically, the same reporter noted in the December issue of the same magazine. Quite frankly, we are unaware of the credentials of the blogger in the New Yorker, and point out that it is his opinion only, and not based on the facts of the extraordinary 30-year sales history of Michael’s masterpiece.
- John Branca and John McClain, Co-Executors, The Estate Of Michael Jackson
144000
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mmm...let me dispute that....oh wait.....i can't.
i mean...there are people on Wyman's twitter account thanking him for the terrible things he said about Michael Jackson....thanking a man that disputes himself. Talk about the definition of insanity...
*breaks out Thriller and plays 'Billie Jean'*
Happy Martin Luther King Jr. day.
i mean...there are people on Wyman's twitter account thanking him for the terrible things he said about Michael Jackson....thanking a man that disputes himself. Talk about the definition of insanity...
*breaks out Thriller and plays 'Billie Jean'*
Happy Martin Luther King Jr. day.
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souldreamer7
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144 said:
This is a great post.
Michael was working on his Legacy since a child by the time he was a teenager through young adult he was very much aware of building his empire and legacy. This is my own thought. my point of view. Artists today and even some from the past are just now realizing "wait, I need a legacy!"
CherubimII
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ivy;3764091 said:
Well said. :girl_curtsey::dance2:
MjsLovelyOne88
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ivy;3764091 said:
I wonder what Felipemj is gonna say to object about this now? :smilerolleyes: anyway, THANK YOU ESTATE, BRANCA & McCLAIN! :clapping: it's good to see you are aware of these details among the fans..
MJacksonHD
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I'm glad that the estate is tuned into what fans are up to, this statement is epic! 
100Million+!
Michael Jackson's career is unparalleled, and rightfully so - he worked effortlessly to hone his craft, while other artists were enjoying the success of their singles MJ was working on his next material, touring and perfecting his art.:chillin:
100Million+! Michael Jackson's career is unparalleled, and rightfully so - he worked effortlessly to hone his craft, while other artists were enjoying the success of their singles MJ was working on his next material, touring and perfecting his art.:chillin:
xthunderx2
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I read this thread from the beginning and OF COURSE Thriller sold 100,000,000 copies world wide. Most of the crap I have read are from blogs and the author's of those blogs are jealous of Michael...a black man making a HUGE statement by sending his music straight to the top of the charts and staying there ...breaking records of some of the most biggest artists in history, I don't understand why they wouldn't want to give Michael the credit he deserves, HE earned it...and I wish people would stop challenging this truth. I am glad the The Estate came out with this statement. I am sure that people will STILL try to belittle Michael's accomplishment...I say that is THEIR problem...NOT Michael's.
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If one reads Wyman's last comment, it is clear that he oh so much prefers the Beatles/Elvis and that's OK; my objection is the lop sided
dismissal of Michael's #s, not to mention his unsubstantiated claim that even Ringo had higher sales figures. He gives Elvis a convenient
bye, noting that numbers are unattainable from that era. Not surprising really, given his awful Pale King piece just prior to this article. As an aside, he also didn't care much for Spike's doc, labeling it a hagiography...if there is any of that going on it is Wyman himself in regards to Beatles/Elvis.
dismissal of Michael's #s, not to mention his unsubstantiated claim that even Ringo had higher sales figures. He gives Elvis a convenient
bye, noting that numbers are unattainable from that era. Not surprising really, given his awful Pale King piece just prior to this article. As an aside, he also didn't care much for Spike's doc, labeling it a hagiography...if there is any of that going on it is Wyman himself in regards to Beatles/Elvis.
Michael knew there were people like this. Trying to put down his accomplishments. Jealous of what he did and how he connected with people. He always had to fight for his legacy. What I don't understand is that I know people don't have to like Michael or his work. But to not give him any credit or to get people to question things is just ignorant. People let their hatred and jealousy blind them. It's sad.
Snow White luvs Peter Pan
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Thank you MJ Estate for such an epic message and showing yout best interest at heart to honor Michael's legacy! :clapping:
I bet it's the end of Felipemj nagging desputing Michael's undeniable record and epic achievement, YAY! :woohoo:
I bet it's the end of Felipemj nagging desputing Michael's undeniable record and epic achievement, YAY! :woohoo: