The Change in Michael's Message and Image After 'Thriller'

Re: the change in michael's message and image after 'thriller'

he marketed himself a role model for the youth. no one made him do that. he (privately, and sometimes publicly) criticised other acts who were raunchy or used profanity. as the president said in '84, he was proof of what one could accomplish with a clean lifestyle. he compromised his values for popularity. it was a step backwards. before he created trends, now he was following them. he never would have commissioned paintings of himself in Jesus' place at the last supper (!) had he remained a witness. or paraded around in military jackets flanked by soldiers. he certainly wouldn't have erected a statue of himself to float down thames. he became larger than life and no one could tell him anything. there was a domineering and sinister energy that seeped into his music and the way he presented himself. what he represented before all of that was something positive and unique.

You got a point. i don't know what to say about this. Michael was always positive and unique a lot people still follow him today. so i really don't think it had anything to do with him changing his image.

he was always the same to me just his image changed that's all. i would say in his later years in his life he became somewhat more confident.
 
Re: the change in michael's message and image after 'thriller'

Michael wore blue in 'the way you make me feel' which featured the crips. should that be looked at as an endorsement? the 'beat it' video may have been fictional, but at least the song was solutions based and represented Michael's true stance on violence (he spoke about this in his autobiography). it had more of an impact as well.

I know i keep saying this but you got a point and i agree with you.
 
Re: the change in michael's message and image after 'thriller'

LOL! so michael was an crip! what the heck? LMBO! i totally lost that! i just saw him with the outfit in the way you make feel and nothing else. oh my goodness.:laughing: michael probably was both because he wore both colors blue and red. LMBO! dude i'm in tears now.

it was the BAD era folks.

which make me think about the beat it video from earlier. :laughing:

holy crap

what was gonna on with micahel? :laughing:

i need to watch the way you make me feel again when i get a chance. now that's hilarious and the beat it video. :laughing:

i know it's all acting and pretend but what the heck? :laughing: i'm totally in tears now. :laughing:
 
Re: the change in michael's message and image after 'thriller'

wasn't 'bad' supposed to be about a young man who got shot by a plain clothes police officer? I didn't see any reference of that in the film..

you on point. he probably didn't add that to the story because we have to remember his fans were also kids. though. why the heck you telling children being in gang is cool? unless he mean it was bad and all he did was made it seem it was good. i don't know but the more i look at the moonwalker the more and more i'm starting to get your point. in the moonwalker he use children to do bad. what the heck? yeah. something not right.

it's all pretend but you shouldn't really give out that image to children. maybe he did for creativity but it was still kind of wrong though.
 
Re: the change in michael's message and image after 'thriller'

i don't understand this idea that Michael would have stopped evolving, or that he would have been 'bland' had he not 'turned bad' so to speak. he was already exploring darker elements of life in his music. the only difference is that he didn't indulge or promote it. he spoke from an outsiders perspective, and used it as a lesson of what *not* to do.

take the lyrics of 'sunset driver' for example; 'living hot, doing what you should not. you've lost the plot'. i wrote an analysis of that song many years ago that offered the possibility that it was a message to brother randy, and what led to his fatal car accident.

also, 'billie jean'; 'so take my strong advice, just remember to always think twice' and 'be careful what you do, 'cause the lie becomes the truth!' a song about child paternity!

I think people are confusing being clean with being lightweight, and having no substance. that's clearly not the case with Michael. he took many risks within those parameters. I wouldn't be surprised if the song 'the man' was used as a Jehovah's witnessing tool. he already tackled social issues in a direct way with 'man of war' and 'strength of one man', with his brothers on their early cbs recordings.

there are so many directions he could have gone in. 'bad' wasn't the only option. the whole point of 'beat it' was that you can be 'cool' i.e stylish and talented, without being 'bad'. he redefined the term and proved that nice guys *don't* finish last. that's empowering!

I actually think his biggest artistic transformation, musically and visually, occurred between 'off the wall' and 'thriller'. it was organic as well.


why did Michael issue an apology for the panther dance if it was something he truly believed in? he had an opportunity to fully explain the context, but at the time he said that he just wanted to turn the animalists of the panther into a dance.. no mention of racism at all. in fact, those graffiti slurs were only added after the original broadcast. the video could have ended perfectly with the different faces melding into one with the message intact. it seems as though the final section was a spin off from his la gear commercial a year before, and had nothing to do with the song or rest of the video. he knew that it was going to be controversial.

which he would have been entitled to had he not been trying to simultaneously hold on to the child audience. how can you be grabbing yourself with 10 year old macualy culkin on set? how is it appropriate for young brandon adams to be grabbing himself whilst imitating Michael during the 'badder' segment in 'moonwalker'?


*that's* the main issue I have. the two worlds cannot coexist. sooner or later you must choose one. otherwise there is disharmony and chaos. which there was...
 
Re: the change in michael's message and image after 'thriller'

Mike always went with what was in, it wasn't like he made avant-garde music. He made music designed to be as commercial as possible and sell a lot. Destiny & Off The Wall were disco influenced. Thriller had the new wave, rock, light rock and the R&B bass groove sounds of the early 1980s. You can find a lot of early 1980s songs that sound similar to The Girl Is Mine, which in recent years labeled "yacht rock" by comedians. Victory & Bad was synth dance music based, Dangerous was New Jack Swing. Invincible had the slow jam and neo-soul sounds of that period. Butterflies got a lot of airplay on R&B radio stations and is still played today on the "adult R&B" format

Exactly.
 
Re: the change in michael's message and image after 'thriller'

a lot of artists can't just do the same thing over and over and over again.

Exactly. it would get repeated and boring. Michael was an type of person who stayed fresh with ideas and trends. that was also made him special. even though Michael went with some trends he also use to stick with his own style and ideas too. that what made him special. it's almost 2020 and people still dancing like Michael and nobody hasn't gotten pass him since. everybody look up to him. still.
 
Re: the change in michael's message and image after 'thriller'

I don't think everything Michael did was his true self. he claimed he only did it somethings for his audiences. i think we all tend to forget he's acting with somethings. not everything he did wasn't meant to be taken seriously and i think we all forget that. i'm a person who loves to make believe which was also Michael message.

he loved fantasy. he even said it himself. just because an person plays and bad character doesn't mean their an bad person. they just telling an story. michael played the scarecrow in the wiz. we knew he was an very intelligent. some people choose people to act a roll because they probably do good for that roll.

it's like when children play dressup or house. or like Halloween when we all dress up and pretend to be something. another example. thriller! it all just fun and entertainment.

we take this stuff too seriously nowadays. it's all imagination.

i also think that's why Michael linked with kids a lot. they never judging him for it because they knew he was only pretending. probably not babies but at least kids 4 and up. :)
 
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Re: the change in michael's message and image after 'thriller'

Michael wanted to play the roll of James Bond in the 80's and also Spiderman. imagine if he did? he would of been the first African-American guy to play both your them! :D i wish that happen. that would been cool.

Fun Fact: everytime the James Bond theme plays Michael's get paid because he also own half of James Bond.

bless him.
 
mj_frenzy;4270400 said:
The inspiration for Michael Jackson’s crotch grabbing move did not come from members of The Time band who grabbed their crotch on stage.

Actually, Michael Jackson himself came up initially (during the Victory Tour) with the idea of grabbing his belt, not his crotch.

He realized that his female fans liked a lot that particular, sexual suggestive move during those shows (of grabbing his belt), so towards the end of the Victory Tour he decided to go a step further with that move by starting to grab his crotch while performing.

EXACTLY! that's what i said earlier in this thread. he probably wasn't honest about it because he didn't want to upset some of his female fans. Michael didn't speak up on a lot of things because he didn't wanted to upset some people and his fans.
 
mj_frenzy;4270400 said:
For the subsequent BAD Tour, Michael Jackson decided to complement that move by adding now some more stylistic sexual innuendos, like these chains that he wore around his crotch area which denoted unbridled sexuality.

Aside from his crotch grabbing move, the fact that Michael Jackson began to wear military jackets in various public occasions (from the ‘Thriller’ era onwards) had to do also with his desire to increase his sexual appeal to his female fans even from those early years of his career (because he knew that women are attracted to men who wear such military outfits).

You hit a nail with this one. though he also use the BAD era to show an tougher side of him. so it's actually both ways.
 
Re: the change in michael's message and image after 'thriller'




why did Michael issue an apology for the panther dance if it was something he truly believed in? he had an opportunity to fully explain the context, but at the time he said that he just wanted to turn the animalists of the panther into a dance.. no mention of racism at all. in fact, those graffiti slurs were only added after the original broadcast. the video could have ended perfectly with the different faces melding into one with the message intact. it seems as though the final section was a spin off from his la gear commercial a year before, and had nothing to do with the song or rest of the video. he knew that it was going to be controversial.


This seemed to be what some people were saying at the time.

I mentioned this article but here is the link. There is no need to sign up unless you want to download the PDF but you need to scroll down the page a bit.
https://www.academia.edu/2462183/Mi...he_Uncanny_Business_of_Performing_While_Black

Michael made more than just superficial music videos.
 
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Re: the change in michael's message and image after 'thriller'

i don't understand this idea that Michael would have stopped evolving, or that he would have been 'bland' had he not 'turned bad'

Nobody saying that. it was just the image he choose and did it. it was all for entertainment.
 
Re: the change in michael's message and image after 'thriller'

also, 'billie jean'; 'so take my strong advice, just remember to always think twice' and 'be careful what you do, 'cause the lie becomes the truth!' a song about child paternity!

I always knew something was bit off about Billie Jean now that i'm older the song is hilarious BUT also give an message. the real story about Billie Jean was about a real young lady who claimed Michael was the father of one of her twins. sadly the young lady had things mentally going on with her. even though Michael took the song another way looking back at it on thriller album, it could be a chance the kid was actually his but he didn't sleep with her making the story creepy which was kind of like point of the thriller album everyone seen to miss.
 
Re: the change in michael's message and image after 'thriller'

Billie Jean wasn't for kids and that was on the thriller album. maybe it was for teenagers and adults but most definitely wasn't for kids. i think the only thing that made billie jean somewhat child friendly was his dancing which i love and his famous moonwalk. but other then that billie jean was most definitely wasn't for children.

Maybe used of the space theme made it more child friendly. that's what's i'm thinking. Michael loved science fiction. so linking that to children was an great fun idea. :)
children could learn about space and the planets. like the milkyway,the stars, and after all the moon. :) after all Michael was alive and performing while the first moon landing was happening. it's possible that's where his love for space came from. but that's what i'm thinking. so i could be wrong. :)
 
Re: the change in michael's message and image after 'thriller'

Anyway we can group posts into one?
 
Re: the change in michael's message and image after 'thriller'

NatureCriminal7896, instead of making a million posts after each other, why on earth don't you keep it in just one post????
 
image

There's an old story about Michael and his brothers pranking some playboy women after leaving some awards thingy. i'm not sure was it the grammys or the american music awards.

they said michael put his head out the window laughing when the car pulled off or something like that.
Ola Ray was a Playboy model herself. Before getting a record deal the Jackson brothers played music for strippers in clubs. So did the teen Beatles in Hamburg. A lot of child & teen acts pre-1970s performed in nightclubs. Also I don't think this is the behavior of a "Peter Pan". He's talking about "fish" which is slang for a female body part. Plus he uses the profanity word for breasts, he doesn't say boobs. :laughing:
Same for these photos:

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In a recent interview Tito says that if people thought that Michael was gay, then leave their wife or girlfriend with him. Rebbie said something similar years ago. You can see Tito's comment here around 18:45
Here's teen Mike wearing a Playboy logo shirt
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Re: the change in michael's message and image after 'thriller'

I think people are confusing being clean with being lightweight, and having no substance.

You're right. and i hate that stereotype just because you have an clean image doesn't mean your weak. there was people out there calling Michael soft and a punk just because of some his messages. i guess that's why he went on and did BAD. he did say he wanted to show that he was tough. back in the 80's BAD actually mean it cool it was an slang. like i said earlier in this thread. it was popular to be "BAD". ;)
 
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mj_frenzy;4270400 said:
The inspiration for Michael Jackson’s crotch grabbing move did not come from members of The Time band who grabbed their crotch on stage.

Actually, Michael Jackson himself came up initially (during the Victory Tour) with the idea of grabbing his belt, not his crotch.
Unless you are a mind reader, you can't possibly know that. He didn't say where it came from. I said he might have gotten it from The Time or from hip hop, not that he definitely did. There's a difference. Mike did meet with some breakdancers, and it is possible they showed him the move.
 
Re: the change in michael's message and image after 'thriller'

Unless you are a mind reader, you can't possibly know that. He didn't say where it came form. I said he might have gotten it from The Time or from hip hop, not that he definitely did. There's a difference. Mike did meet with some breakdancers, and it is possible they showed him the move.

When did it become the thing that some guys just do anyway i.e completely unrelated to dance? Like you say there is no way to know for sure the exact persons he picked up ideas from.
 
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Re: the change in michael's message and image after 'thriller'

When did it become the thing that some guys just do anyway i.e completely unrelated to dance? Like you say there is no way to know for sure the exact persons he picked up ideas from.

I agree. i don't understand why some guys do this either.
 
Re: the change in michael's message and image after 'thriller'

I agree. i don't understand why some guys do this either.

I wondered if it's some sort of dominance thing. But Michael seemed to have his hand there for more than one reason - some more sexual than other times.
 
Re: the change in michael's message and image after 'thriller'

I wondered if it's some sort of dominance thing. But Michael seemed to have his hand there for more than one reason - some more sexual than other times.

I seem to remember saying he didn't know why he did it, that it just happened, I think he knew what reaction he would get from his fans :laughing:
 
Re: the change in michael's message and image after 'thriller'

there are so many directions he could have gone in. 'bad' wasn't the only option. the whole point of 'beat it' was that you can be 'cool' i.e stylish and talented, without being 'bad'. he redefined the term and proved that nice guys *don't* finish last. that's empowering!

I agree and loved that message. i'm not sure why he sort of change himself from that but he never stop talking about the important things. in his later albums he still talks about this stuff. it's there and never changed. i know you're not a fan of his later albums i'm not really either but when you get a chance listen to them. his message never changed. it was always there just his image changed that's all. i'm serious.

yes he talks about media but he still talks about the kids,the earth,peace,and the world.
 
Re: the change in michael's message and image after 'thriller'

I wondered if it's some sort of dominance thing. But Michael seemed to have his hand there for more than one reason - some more sexual than other times.

We all know it was for some of his female fans. but seriously i don't like guys who do that. it's nasty to me and not gentleman like. i understand their males but, it isn't gentleman like. it's an difference from dancing to then to just touch yourself. touching yourself isn't an dance move. but i guess if he was doing it sexually then i guess it a dance move?..... i guess....
 
Re: the change in michael's message and image after 'thriller'

We all know it was for some of his female fans. but seriously i don't like guys who do that. it's nasty to me and not gentleman like. i understand their males but, it isn't gentleman like. it's an difference from dancing to then to just touch yourself. touching yourself isn't an dance move. but i guess if he was doing it sexually then i guess it a dance move?..... i guess....

I think guys doing it are just trying to show some macho thing which probably stems from some insecurity I guess?

In terms of dance... I think of any move as an expression and any expression within a dance is a dance move. I guess it's up to each person to decide how they think of it.

I seem to remember saying he didn't know why he did it, that it just happened, I think he knew what reaction he would get from his fans :laughing:

Yeah I remember him saying that.
 
Re: the change in michael's message and image after 'thriller'

We all know it was for some of his female fans. but seriously i don't like guys who do that. it's nasty to me and not gentleman like. i understand their males but, it isn't gentleman like. it's an difference from dancing to then to just touch yourself. touching yourself isn't an dance move. but i guess if he was doing it sexually then i guess it a dance move?..... i guess....

I don't think he did it sexually, as in he wasn't weird or anything, but at the end of the day its Michael Jackson and everything he did was fine by me :laughing:
 
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