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The Discussion of MJ's Unreleased Tracks

Michaels golden age of writing and composing was 1978 - 1993. HIStory relies on collabs and great songs from earlier, which is hardly a flaw. Just a change. There was only about 3 songs newly composed during those sessions.

But I think 1998 saw him start a silver age. A lot of great new songs originated that year and he continued up to about 2004. Before he got derailed again, and then everything after was sadly sporadic.
 
Clay7 said:
That’s what’s been said. Can’t confirm if it’s 100% true or not but I wouldn’t be surprised. The album feels like it was made by someone who did not care about it and didn’t bother to spend any time on it lol.

- Cover that looks like it was made on Canva in 3 minutes
- Random versions of songs, some from poor quality sources like BTM
- False information and credits
- Mislabeled tracks
- Lack of a coherent representation of the Thriller album (probably because nearly none of them had to do with the album)
- Digital Deluxe with tracks they forgot to put on there
- Scammy vinyl release with an ATROCIOUS cover
- Absolute dogshit remasters that rather than fixing/updating the songs just made them worse

And it just goes on really. I wouldn’t even call myself like a radical MJ fan but this release genuinely offends me lol. This is one of the few times I can say definitely Michael would’ve never done this project like this. He would’ve never put out a track like WALWTG sounding how it did.
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Even if Sony put pressure on the Estate you really can’t blame them. MJE has been sitting on their ass doing jack squat for years as far as quality music releases. I’m sure they have a contact to fulfill. Probably even more push from Sony on new music during or following the biopic. Now would be the time to release some of the best unreleased tracks and capitalize on their investment. Never know what the future holds for MJ projects with all the BS never ending.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
Michaels golden age of writing and composing was 1978 - 1993. HIStory relies on collabs and great songs from earlier, which is hardly a flaw. Just a change. There was only about 3 songs newly composed during those sessions.

But I think 1998 saw him start a silver age. A lot of great new songs originated that year and he continued up to about 2004. Before he got derailed again, and then everything after was sadly sporadic.
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But apparently there were lots of new songs recorded for HIStory, judging the auction we had recently. "DNA", "Lost in Love", "Diana Ross" etc. We just haven't heard them.
 
apple🍎 said:
But apparently there were lots of new songs recorded for HIStory, judging the auction we had recently. "DNA", "Lost in Love", "Diana Ross" etc. We just haven't heard them.
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If that’s the case then there’s potential to extend the golden age. But I don’t think we can surpass Stranger in Moscow or Is It Scary as far as the 90s writing goes.
 
Smooth72 said:
Even if Sony put pressure on the Estate you really can’t blame them. MJE has been sitting on their ass doing jack squat for years as far as quality music releases. I’m sure they have a contact to fulfill. Probably even more push from Sony on new music during or following the biopic. Now would be the time to release some of the best unreleased tracks and capitalize on their investment. Never know what the future holds for MJ projects with all the BS never ending.
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Yeah, they made a 10 album contract with Sony after his death
 
apple🍎 said:
But I ain't listened most of the bootlegs. And I think it was insane they complained about SOTT Deluxe and D&P Deluxe. Bootlegs or not. It was like 4 new albums in one each.
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They complain cuz Symbol SDE got cut off the D&P SDE package. At least Prince community got balls; unlike those kids on MJ forums they've leaked all Symbol vault tracks in unaltered, full length and lossless form.
 
Fuzball said:
10 projects within 7 years
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I guess those would be the ones in terms of home media releases under Sony: This Is It (album), This Is It (movie), Michael, Vision, Immortal (album), Bad 25, Live At Wembley, Bad 25 Documentay, Xscape, Journey From Motown To Off The Wall

After we got: Scream,… MJ Musical (album), Thriller 40

yea doesnt look that great but I do understand that Leaving Neverland heavily impacted releases and I do believe that they are starting to ramp things up this year.

(all excluding non Sony releases or events like The Experience, One, Halloween etc)
 
Hot_Street said:
sounds better than The Verdict
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Still sounds very mid though. A right tosser... literal "garbage"
I still find it quite bold of Bryan to say "Can't Let Her Get Away" was based on this...
It sounds like a completely different song to me, but subtle similarities in the production and the beat (brass stabs, samples etc.). Both sound like any other late 80s/early 90s R&B/funk song I've ever heard.

But Teddy definitely hit another level that Bryan didn't with his material. Bryan's songs paled in comparison to what Teddy had, and Bryan would loath to admit that...
 
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Smooth72 said:
Even if Sony put pressure on the Estate you really can’t blame them. MJE has been sitting on their ass doing jack squat for years as far as quality music releases. I’m sure they have a contact to fulfill. Probably even more push from Sony on new music during or following the biopic. Now would be the time to release some of the best unreleased tracks and capitalize on their investment. Never know what the future holds for MJ projects with all the BS never ending.
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I dont think anybody is or should be blaming Sony. They aren't really the ones who make the projects. They more so just aid.
 
Victorious said:
I was thinking: The 'Hollywood Tonight' demo seems to use the Hall & Oates beat, which 'Billie Jean' was inspired by (well, according to H&O), it has an oldschool MJ theme and Rod Temperton was also involved; so.. maybe HT was meant to sound 'dated' or rather a 'return to form'..?
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Wouldnt explain at all other tracks that sound dated but that is an interesting theory on its own
 
mjfp said:
Karen Langford

wouldn't call them random at all, all are the latest mixes done except Behind The Mask due to them not owning the rights to release it as the 1982 was produced by Quincy Jones, the Hayvenhurst Home Demo from 1981, the original version of the song, which only exists on cassette was released instead

don't remember false information or credits at all, although it's been over three years already. (if you mean Sunset Driver, all of the information is correct)

What should be mislabeled?

Well to be honest, it was a 40th anniversary release after all and considering other songs are more polished and suitable for an album or single release, it wouldn't make sense to release those on an anniversary release which is mainly for fans, not the general public and was supposed to accompany the Thriller 40 documentary, which was aimed for casuals and was recieved very well and watched by a lot of people

Someone In The Dark is not in relation to Thriller at all, sure some edits and remixes could be added but those would mainly be very unneccesary additions like country based single edits, choosing just Thriller 7" and Human Nature 7" makes sense, because they are enitrely different mixes

The album remaster is an approved master from 2009, not a new remaster. The bonus tracks were mastered by Brian Gardner, who I agree, doesn't do a great job with Michael's material, see Bad 25, Xscape (Remixes) and the Thriller 40 (Bonus Tracks)

In The Back..., I think What A Lovely Way To Go is a great addition, showing the rawness of an unfinished, non-polished recording
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- Thank you for clarifying I honestly forgot she existed
- Fair enough, still think BTM should've just been left off or at least use a version that isnt bad quality with errors
- They stated certain tracks were for Thriller, Matt denies this. I'm more inclined to believe people who actually worked with Michael on the songs rather than the estate which has a history of incorrect information.
- The "Demo" labelling is totally inconsistent lol not a massive deal but its just further laziness
- "it was a 40th anniversary release after all and considering other songs are more polished and suitable for an album or single release, it wouldn't make sense to release those" My argument would then be why put out a half ass release with bottom of the barrel songs. If a 40th anniversary is so unimportant why do it in the first place lol
- I never mentioned Someone In The Dark at all, Im aware it wasnt for Thriller (much like most of the 2nd disc), I was referring to The Girl Is Mine demo which was released in the Thriller 25 celebration. They pulled a TON of stuff from previous singles and other non studio album releases for the digital expanded edition but definitely forgot about this one 😭.
- I was referring to the mastering of the bonus tracks sorry for not clarifying my bad
- yeah i dont hate the song but theres absolutely no reason they shouldve released it like that, Michael would have 1000% fixed it had he been willing to drop it.
 
Clay7 said:
Fair enough, still think BTM should've just been left off or at least use a version that isnt bad quality with errors
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yeah, the problem with that is that the home demo is the only one that was releaseable as it was fully produced by MJ and they don't own the rights to the later version produced by Quincy
Clay7 said:
They stated certain tracks were for Thriller, Matt denies this. I'm more inclined to believe people who actually worked with Michael on the songs rather than the estate which has a history of incorrect information.
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That is true, The Toy for example was not for the Thriller album, but recorded in 1981 for the film. Still, it's a recording from the Thriller writing period and therefore a valid choice for a 40th Anniversary Edition.
Clay7 said:
"it was a 40th anniversary release after all and considering other songs are more polished and suitable for an album or single release, it wouldn't make sense to release those" My argument would then be why put out a half ass release with bottom of the barrel songs. If a 40th anniversary is so unimportant why do it in the first place lol
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It was the first major release since Leaving Neverland happened and a lot of companies didn't want any further collaboration with Michael during that time, Sony and MJE thought that any further releases wouldn't be as successful. It was also never meant to be the main release but a side-release to the Thriller 40 documentary. Also, technically if we were to compare that standalone 2CD release to the Bad 25 release, I would argue Thriller 40 isn't that far off in terms of quality. Same mastering engineer, more demos, similar packaging. The Bad session demos are overall more polished than the Thriller demos and had a higher production budget. The only more polished Thriller demos are the ones that would fit more with a commercial release: Hot Street, Nite Line... and that is basically it. All other songs are rawer demos, or don't even have real vocals. Those that ended up on Thriller 40, including What A Lovely Way To Go or The Toy are definitely not bottom of the barrel songs, when looking at all of his recordings from those sessions. Bad simply had a lot more recorded songs and demos.
Clay7 said:
I never mentioned Someone In The Dark at all, Im aware it wasnt for Thriller (much like most of the 2nd disc), I was referring to The Girl Is Mine demo which was released in the Thriller 25 celebration. They pulled a TON of stuff from previous singles and other non studio album releases for the digital expanded edition but definitely forgot about this one 😭.
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The "The Girl Is Mine" demo isn't on streaming at all, that is I think the main reason it was left out. Then again, they added the 7" remixes of Thriller and Human Nature and the Def Thrill Mix of Thriller. So maybe, they just forgot it.
Clay7 said:
I was referring to the mastering of the bonus tracks sorry for not clarifying my bad
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Yea it is just ok, not great. For some weird reason, Karen chose a cassette tape of Carousel, instead of the original. (and that's not her first time taking a random tape out of the shelves without inspecting what it actually is). Behind The Mask has a Logic Pro error sound at the beginning. That is simply unacceptable
Clay7 said:
yeah i dont hate the song but theres absolutely no reason they shouldve released it like that, Michael would have 1000% fixed it had he been willing to drop it.
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True, but fixing it wouldn't be the way to go (see what I did there hehe). The song is vocally complete and a very cool idea, so I think it's great to be on there, especially since there probably wouldn't be any other way of releasing it. Mark Ronson wasn't at all satisfied with his remix and it's better to release it than to just keep it in the vaults. Especially since, there are not really more vocally full recordings from that time that sound this far "advanced", as Hot Street and Nite Line are held back for a commercial release. The 40th anniversary album has always been a product for fans, not for casuals.
 
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AlwaysThere said:
Personally, I don’t see this as a lack of interest/drive as much as MJ embracing his own inconsistent creative process.

Quincy was a quick, efficient producer: when sessions started, he knew what songs he wanted to prioritize, and he turned in a finished album within a couple months. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that this was the period where MJ was putting vocals on nearly everything he wrote: half-finished song sketches were less likely to be selected than mostly-completed demos, especially when MJ was still going up against Quincy’s team of songwriters.

Once MJ took the reins of executive producer in 1989, that structure and focus was gone, for better or worse. Suddenly he was more willing to let songs gestate on their own time, which meant not getting in the booth until he felt it necessary. He was still churning out dozens of new songs per album/project, but he wasn’t under the obligation to impress anyone but himself.

I’m sure age and his passion for an acting career played a part, especially by the late 90s and early 2000s. But I chalk his shift away from vocal recording to not having the structure and sense of competition Quincy provided.
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I'd say it was partly also getting in multiple production teams working at the same time... Starting from Dangerous, when Michael had Bill Bottrell, Bruce Swedien, Bryan Loren and later Teddy Riley working on songs. Each brought their own style, sound and methods to the project, and Michael could bounce between the different camps. He liked having that kind of diversity.
However, it became way less cohesive and focused... With the album pulling in multiple different directions, Michael's constant quest for perfection & the latest sounds, the sheer amount of material... Same for HIStory and Invincible.

Quincy usually did a lot of the screening beforehand, of Michael's songs and material from other songwriters... He was looking for what he thought were the strongest songs, regardless if they were finished or not (but usually finished) and refine as he went along. Quincy found a rock song in "Beat It" even when it was a sketch, for instance...
Quincy's ultimate role was quality control and running a tight ship. He was there to give focus and direction, like with Thriller, and bring the best out of Michael in more ways than one. And it definitely spiralled without Quincy at the helm.
 
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We will have to wait until someone else who actually cares about the quality of releases to take over before we get any demos in good quality.

They are perfectly happy to throw the first thing that lands into their hands onto these albums.

That's not even mentioning the mastering etc.

T40 is pretty much a non listen for me on most tracks because of how bad it sounds.
 
Did anyone ever interview people like Mottola, to hesar their side of things about Michael..?

Or for that matter David Geffen, Spielberg etc.
 
Eventidescape1 said:
I'd say it was partly also getting in multiple production teams working at the same time... Starting from Dangerous, when Michael had Bill Bottrell, Bruce Swedien, Bryan Loren and later Teddy Riley working on songs. Each brought their own style, sound and methods to the project, and Michael could bounce between the different camps. He liked having that kind of diversity.
However, it became way less cohesive and focused... With the album pulling in multiple different directions, Michael's constant quest for perfection & the latest sounds, the sheer amount of material... Same for HIStory and Invincible.

Quincy usually did a lot of the screening beforehand, of Michael's songs and material from other songwriters... He was looking for what he thought were the strongest songs, regardless if they were finished or not (but usually finished) and refine as he went along. Quincy found a rock song in "Beat It" even when it was a sketch, for instance...
Quincy's ultimate role was quality control and running a tight ship. He was there to give focus and direction, like with Thriller, and bring the best out of Michael in more ways than one. And it definitely spiralled without Quincy at the helm.
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There's a saying: "Too many cooks in the kitchen". The was the case once Quincy left. As a result, albums lacked focus and cohesion. And albums took way too long to be completed. I bet once BAD was finished, Quincy couldn't wait to be done with MJ.
 
Derek1984 said:
There's a saying: "Too many cooks in the kitchen". The was the case once Quincy left. As a result, albums lacked focus and cohesion. And albums took way too long to be completed. I bet once BAD was finished, Quincy couldn't wait to be done with MJ.
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I would only say this was the case with Invincible. Dangerous and HIStory are masterclasses of genre blending and production. I will die on the hill that, so far as artistry and willingness to experiment is concerned, Quincy was holding MJ back. His ‘90s work is far more intriguing than anything before it, even if you could debate its quality.
 
AlwaysThere said:
I would only say this was the case with Invincible. Dangerous and HIStory are masterclasses of genre blending and production. I will die on the hill that, so far as artistry and willingness to experiment is concerned, Quincy was holding MJ back. His ‘90s work is far more intriguing than anything before it, even if you could debate its quality.
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Dangerous lacks cohesion but overall, it's a great album that I still listen to.

My guess is Sony started to change their tune on MJ because it took MJ way too long to release anything, and a lot of the music after Dangerous became not radio-friendly.
 
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