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The Discussion of MJ's Unreleased Tracks

MJ5 said:
What a lovely way to go
Pre-OTW

Not sure if it was known. Definetly not a Thriller related song though. Released on Thriller 40.

Edit: At least written prior Off the Wall
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Basically none of the tracks were actually considered for Thriller lol. That release just makes no sense at all, not only does it have several tracks that weren’t actually for Thriller it doesn’t embody the Thriller album in the slightest. Even that thriller Genesis bootleg from 2009 did it better.
 
dam2040 said:
Didn't Sony push Thriller 40 onto MJE who had no interest in doing it? I'm sure I read that somewhere.
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That’s what’s been said. Can’t confirm if it’s 100% true or not but I wouldn’t be surprised. The album feels like it was made by someone who did not care about it and didn’t bother to spend any time on it lol.

- Cover that looks like it was made on Canva in 3 minutes
- Random versions of songs, some from poor quality sources like BTM
- False information and credits
- Mislabeled tracks
- Lack of a coherent representation of the Thriller album (probably because nearly none of them had to do with the album)
- Digital Deluxe with tracks they forgot to put on there
- Scammy vinyl release with an ATROCIOUS cover
- Absolute dogshit remasters that rather than fixing/updating the songs just made them worse

And it just goes on really. I wouldn’t even call myself like a radical MJ fan but this release genuinely offends me lol. This is one of the few times I can say definitely Michael would’ve never done this project like this. He would’ve never put out a track like WALWTG sounding how it did.
 
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Clay7 said:
The album feels like it was made by someone who did not care about it and didn’t bother to spend any time on it lol.
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Karen Langford
Clay7 said:
Random versions of songs, some from poor quality sources like BTM
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wouldn't call them random at all, all are the latest mixes done except Behind The Mask due to them not owning the rights to release it as the 1982 was produced by Quincy Jones, the Hayvenhurst Home Demo from 1981, the original version of the song, which only exists on cassette was released instead
Clay7 said:
False information and credits
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don't remember false information or credits at all, although it's been over three years already. (if you mean Sunset Driver, all of the information is correct)
Clay7 said:
Mislabeled tracks
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What should be mislabeled?
Clay7 said:
Lack of a coherent representation of the Thriller album (probably because nearly none of them had to do with the album)
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Well to be honest, it was a 40th anniversary release after all and considering other songs are more polished and suitable for an album or single release, it wouldn't make sense to release those on an anniversary release which is mainly for fans, not the general public and was supposed to accompany the Thriller 40 documentary, which was aimed for casuals and was recieved very well and watched by a lot of people
Clay7 said:
Digital Deluxe with tracks they forgot to put on there
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Someone In The Dark is not in relation to Thriller at all, sure some edits and remixes could be added but those would mainly be very unneccesary additions like country based single edits, choosing just Thriller 7" and Human Nature 7" makes sense, because they are enitrely different mixes
Clay7 said:
Absolute dogshit remasters that rather than fixing/updating the songs just made them worse
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The album remaster is an approved master from 2009, not a new remaster. The bonus tracks were mastered by Brian Gardner, who I agree, doesn't do a great job with Michael's material, see Bad 25, Xscape (Remixes) and the Thriller 40 (Bonus Tracks)
Clay7 said:
He would’ve never put out a track like WALWTG sounding how it did.
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In The Back..., I think What A Lovely Way To Go is a great addition, showing the rawness of an unfinished, non-polished recording
 
I don't care what anyone says, Shut Up And Dance is such a bop. I wish Mike had at least done a quick vocal take. He was apparently working on ts on and off from Invincible through his final years, helping with writing and production, yet he never managed to record even a rough session vocal on some random day 💔
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
Well there you go. That’s as high a praise as you can get. The estate was wise to not put it on Thriller 40; the time has to be perfect for it.
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Baby Be Mine has aged better than Hot Street. It was the right choice to put on Thriller.

That being said, if the Estate was going to release a single for the Biopic, Hot Street should be a strong contender. And it has massive TikTok potential. Which we know moves the needle for Branca lol
 
Interesting to be able to get an idea of how "Lucy Is In Love With Linus" sounds like. It's so cool how in the last few years we've been able to get so much info on tracks (and even got to listen to some of them with our own ears!) that went completely obscure for years, and even decades. I think it's increasingly becoming more likely that all of the demos mentioned in that deposition were songs that were recorded in some form since every song we heard so far has vocals to them.

It's also funny to get this bit of info on "Hot Street" when the song could be months away from being officially released lol. I'm already seeing the song get noticed on Twitter because of this.
 
ChanceToDance said:
Interesting to be able to get an idea of how "Lucy Is In Love With Linus" sounds like. It's so cool how in the last few years we've been able to get so much info on tracks (and even got to listen to some of them with our own ears!) that went completely obscure for years, and even decades. I think it's increasingly becoming more likely that all of the demos mentioned in that deposition were songs that were recorded in some form since every song we heard so far has vocals to them.
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Yes, I think it’s fair to say. I think it is unlikely that the lawyers would have brought up songs that are just instrumental in this case (e.g. Iowa, which we know is an orchestral piece from the 70s, was not mentioned).

If this is true, it is yet further proof that Michael’s practice changed significantly in the latter part of his career, as we have been speculating.

One really gets the sensation that after Dangerous, his drive for creating music was not there in the same way it had been. In the 70s and 80s, you have countless demos with full lead vocals. After that, not so much. And the Invincible album in itself shows that songwriting was not his primary focus anymore.
 
Fuzball said:
There's one other song that shares similarities with tgim and tyfl. It's mentioned in the 1984 deposition, it should be "why can't I be", iirc.
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Yeah, you are right. I'm sure it's complete enough for release. Maybe Thriller 50?
 
dethorro said:
One really gets the sensation that after Dangerous, his drive for creating music was not there in the same way it had been. In the 70s and 80s, you have countless demos with full lead vocals. After that, not so much. And the Invincible album in itself shows that songwriting was not his primary focus anymore.
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Personally, I don’t see this as a lack of interest/drive as much as MJ embracing his own inconsistent creative process.

Quincy was a quick, efficient producer: when sessions started, he knew what songs he wanted to prioritize, and he turned in a finished album within a couple months. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that this was the period where MJ was putting vocals on nearly everything he wrote: half-finished song sketches were less likely to be selected than mostly-completed demos, especially when MJ was still going up against Quincy’s team of songwriters.

Once MJ took the reins of executive producer in 1989, that structure and focus was gone, for better or worse. Suddenly he was more willing to let songs gestate on their own time, which meant not getting in the booth until he felt it necessary. He was still churning out dozens of new songs per album/project, but he wasn’t under the obligation to impress anyone but himself.

I’m sure age and his passion for an acting career played a part, especially by the late 90s and early 2000s. But I chalk his shift away from vocal recording to not having the structure and sense of competition Quincy provided.
 
mjfp said:
based on confirmed information, here‘s a rundown of demos

originally written in 1975, unconfirmed information about a recorded demo
demo recorded for the Off The Wall album in 1978
demo recorded for the Thriller album in 1981
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1. you did notes on his unreleased stuff? wonder what info you have on his other demos/outtakes...

2. I had zero idea MJ ever did three different versions of "Lovely Way To Go"
 
I don't believe WALWTG was recorded for Thriller. The version we have sounds like it's from mid 70's. The estate was rummaging through tapes and doing their best to find something remotely finished to pin it with Thriller, hence them trying to push The Toy as a Thriller outtake when it has no connection to the album outside of being recorded around the same time.
 
BlackAnon said:
Why would they give him an alternate take? If his take was more complete, why not use that one for the release?
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Cuz it’s bs. There’s so many “insiders” that are just throwing stuff out like fact when I seriously doubt the legitimacy. If people actually PROVED what they claim, great but if they don’t I’m going to assume bs
 
BlackAnon said:
Why would they give him an alternate take? If his take was more complete, why not use that one for the release?
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If this is true (which… who knows?), it could just be a situation where they gave him the files and let him pick and choose. It’s like with “Do You Know Where Your Children Are” and “Loving You,” where there are alternate takes/lines in the demos.
 
AlwaysThere said:
Personally, I don’t see this as a lack of interest/drive as much as MJ embracing his own inconsistent creative process.

Quincy was a quick, efficient producer: when sessions started, he knew what songs he wanted to prioritize, and he turned in a finished album within a couple months. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that this was the period where MJ was putting vocals on nearly everything he wrote: half-finished song sketches were less likely to be selected than mostly-completed demos, especially when MJ was still going up against Quincy’s team of songwriters.

Once MJ took the reins of executive producer in 1989, that structure and focus was gone, for better or worse. Suddenly he was more willing to let songs gestate on their own time, which meant not getting in the booth until he felt it necessary. He was still churning out dozens of new songs per album/project, but he wasn’t under the obligation to impress anyone but himself.

I’m sure age and his passion for an acting career played a part, especially by the late 90s and early 2000s. But I chalk his shift away from vocal recording to not having the structure and sense of competition Quincy provided.
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I believe that Quincy might have played a part in that, and the competition with people like Rod Temperton certainly made Michael’s perfectionism even higher, but I’m not sure it’s the full picture. I recall John Barnes talking about how after Thriller, Michael thought that his collaboration with Quincy had finished and that their 3-project contract had been fulfilled, with the release of the E.T. soundtrack album.

Now I don’t know exactly when it became clear to Michael that that wasn’t the case, but Barnes has stated that when he came in for the first session at Hayvenhurst, the consensus was that they were working on Michael’s upcoming album. He is also extremely disappointed in people calling it the “B-Team”, because according to Barnes, the album was originally supposed to be produced by them. This is the original quote from him:

“Just to be clear, we didn’t go to Michael’s house to do demos to hand over, we went to make the record.”
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It seems that after Thriller, even with the uncertainty of whether Quincy would be involved in the next project or not, Michael’s main goal was to top the sales of the album That, I find, explains the constant creative drive and ambition more than anything else. It would also explain why this era seems to have the most “finished” demos.

For Dangerous, even though Q was not involved, Michael was still developing music in a similar way to before. There might be slightly more rough ideas, but overall that era was also highly productive - a good number of songs with Bryan Loren, Bill Bottrell and later Riley. Many of the best ones developed in the early sessions in 89’. And many demos from this era would later make it onto HIStory and Blood, which attests to the quality and quantity of material being produced.

I believe with Dangerous, Michael still believed he could top Thriller. I remember reading that his goal was for it to sell 100 million (same as with Bad). With HIStory and Invincible, the story is a bit different, since they came after the allegations and after two very successful albums, which were still no Thrillers in terms of sales. So, I believe at some point, it became clear to him that Thriller was a once-in-a-lifetime phenomenon that could not be replicated. This, along with Michael’s passion for exploring different artistic avenues, and some of his health issues is mainly what made him be less consistently productive, in my view.
 
Clay7 said:
Yeah thats what i've been saying about alot of the songs MJ worked on in the 2000s, they sound so incredibly dated for the time. Like compare the final MJ version of HT to the 2010 one its crazy how much more modern the 2010 one is, the 2008 one sounds like its from the same period as the version from nearly decade prior. It's so fascinating to me how these songs MJ worked on for so long still sounded dated while he also was seemingly wanting to lean into the 2000s/Early 2010s sound with producers like Rodney, RedOne and will.i.am. Only explanation I could think of (other than that he didn't creatively evolve much past the late 90s which ive seen some people piss their pants in anger over lol) is maybe he was going to remix the songs at the last second prior to release but that really doesn't make much sense imo. The entire streak of tracks from like 2002 - 2009 i would LOVE an entire multi-hour documentary/podcast on but that'll never happen.
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I was thinking: The 'Hollywood Tonight' demo seems to use the Hall & Oates beat, which 'Billie Jean' was inspired by (well, according to H&O), it has an oldschool MJ theme and Rod Temperton was also involved; so.. maybe HT was meant to sound 'dated' or rather a 'return to form'..?
 
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