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The Discussion of MJ's Unreleased Tracks

Lordus Hanus said:
When we are discussing how many unreleased (and releasable) songs of MJ are left, the number we have is just a guess. For many songs we just dont have any or very few information, like for songs he mentioned in the deposition. And that are not all songs that are complete and releasable before the deposition (we learned that from for example loving you and dream away). As we dont have something like the deposition afterwards there are probably many more songs we dont know off (for History i think there were not so much outtakes).

And then you just talked about the Bryan Loren songs: There should be something between 20 and 28 songs. We know
Mind is the magic (released)
Superfly sister (released)
To satisfy you (released)
She got it (leaked)
Work that body (leaked)
Serious Effect (leaked)
Men in black (demo leaked/more complete version may exist(?))
7 digits (leaked snippets)
Dont believe it (leaked snippets)
Truth about you
Call it off
Serious Moonlight
Deep in the night (leaked snippets)

And additonaly he wrote raps for black or white and family thing.

That makes 15 songs, considering black or white and family thing, if i didnt forgot anything. But do we know anything about the other 5 to 13 songs?
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Deep In The Night leaked in its entirety during the whole conundrum involving Brad Sundberg’s stolen laptop and SSD.
 
SmoothGangsta said:
It's something Brad made for a film soundtrack. If I'm understanding correctly it doesn't seem to be related to MJ other than he told him he loved it.
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Yeah it has no relation to MJ at all, it was made for a movie called Moulin Rogue but I think it ended up being rejected. Iirc Brad played it after he was asked about MJ's work on classical music in his last years so I assume he played it to give the audience an idea on how he would've done it if MJ asked him to work on that type of music.

And it sounds absolutely incredible btw. This song is one of the many examples why I think Brad Buxer is the best musician to have worked with MJ. I can't think of a single song of his that's bad or anywhere near, even his weakest songs like TLC have a good composition to them.
 
MJ5 said:
Could you add main producer and latest year that the song was being worked on.
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The Fandom wiki has all that info and it's accurate for the most part. Whoever cleaned up that place did a good job at it because it was filled with misleading trash before.
michael-jackson.fandom.com

List of unreleased songs

For each album, American singer-songwriter Michael Jackson would write and record many songs, spanning from 30 to 50 or more. However, a majority would ultimately stay in the vault and never see a release, as only 10-15 tracks would be picked to make it on Jackson's records. Many of them were...
michael-jackson.fandom.com michael-jackson.fandom.com
 
ChanceToDance said:
Yeah it has no relation to MJ at all, it was made for a movie called Moulin Rogue but I think it ended up being rejected. Iirc Brad played it after he was asked about MJ's work on classical music in his last years so I assume he played it to give the audience an idea on how he would've done it if MJ asked him to work on that type of music.

And it sounds absolutely incredible btw. This song is one of the many examples why I think Brad Buxer is the best musician to have worked with MJ. I can't think of a single song of his that's bad or anywhere near, even his weakest songs like TLC have a good composition to them.
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They should let Brad loose on something. The biopic, the classical music, whatever. Just let him choose.

He can take the credit for SiM in exchange, fine maybe.
 
Lordus Hanus said:
And then you just talked about the Bryan Loren songs: There should be something between 20 and 28 songs. We know
Mind is the magic (released)
Superfly sister (released)
To satisfy you (released)
She got it (leaked)
Work that body (leaked)
Serious Effect (leaked)
Men in black (demo leaked/more complete version may exist(?))
7 digits (leaked snippets)
Dont believe it (leaked snippets)
Truth about you
Call it off
Serious Moonlight
Deep in the night (leaked snippets)

And additonaly he wrote raps for black or white and family thing.

That makes 15 songs, considering black or white and family thing, if i didnt forgot anything. But do we know anything about the other 5 to 13 songs?
Click to expand...
These are all the Bryan Loren tracks that are known I think:


Superfly Sister

Mind Is The Magic

Work That Body

Serious Effect

She Got It

Man In Black

Do The Bartman

Deep In The Night

House Groove

It

Fever

The Verdict (1991)

The Verdict (1994)

The Verdict (Bass & Synth)

Dream Girl - Instrumental

Family Thing - More complete version of Family Thing (first produced by Teddy Riley) with Bryan rapping the verses

Stay - Registered at ASCAP https://www.ascap.com/repertory#/ace/search/workID/882265220

To Satisfy You - Rejected demo for Dangerous which Bryan reused as a song of his own. A solo version with MJ isn't known to exist

Son Of Thriller - Remix which includes excerpts of Thriller, DSTYGE, WBSS, and Billie Jean

Garbage - Instrumental. Bryan says it's the track that inspired Teddy Riley to get his sound for the Dangerous album. Used to be at an early configuration of Dangerous. Runtime of approximately 3 minutes

Serious Moonlight - Rejected Writer's Demo

Seven Digits (1991) - Scratch Vocals. Runtime of 2:56 minutes

Seven Digits (1997) - Likely that it's essentially the same as the 1991 version but with further instrumentation done for inclusion on the BOTDF album
"...Michael chose to include the sexual 'Superfly Sister', which was recorded with Bryan Loren during the Dangerous sessions. Another option was 'Seven Digits', also created with Loren, but it was still in a very incomplete state. Loren resumed work on 'Seven Digits' at Michael's behest, but with the tight time restrictions they chose 'Superfly Sister' as it needed the least amount of work."


-Making Michael Pg. 332
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Don't Believe It - Scratch Vocals. Runtime of 5:46 minutes

All The Truth - MJ sings the BGVs while Bryan raps the verses. Runtime of 5:02 minutes

Truth About Youth - Unrelated to 'All The Truth'. LL Cool J performs the parts MJ was supposed to sing

Bubbles - Instrumental. Runtime of 1:30 minutes

Homeless Bound - Experimental track which includes samples with homeless people giving testimonials while Bryan plays the keys. There's another version without the samples that was recently played at a seminar in Bucharest

Call It Off - MJ sings the hook while Bryan Loren performs the verses. The lyrics MJ sings is "Call it off, call the whole thing off. I don't want to marry you."
 
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ChanceToDance said:
These are all the Bryan Loren tracks that are known I think:


Superfly Sister

Mind Is The Magic

Work That Body

Serious Effect

She Got It

Man In Black

Do The Bartman

Deep In The Night

The Verdict (1991)

The Verdict (1994)

The Verdict (Bass & Synth)

Dream Girl - Instrumental

Family Thing - More complete version of Family Thing (first produced by Teddy Riley) with Bryan rapping the verses

Stay - Registered at ASCAP https://www.ascap.com/repertory#/ace/search/workID/882265220

To Satisfy You - Rejected demo for Dangerous which Bryan reused as a song of his own. A solo version with MJ isn't known to exist

Son Of Thriller - Remix which includes excerpts of Thriller, DSTYGE, WBSS, and Billie Jean

Garbage - Instrumental. Bryan says it's the track that inspired Teddy Riley to get his sound for the Dangerous album. Used to be at an early configuration of Dangerous. Runtime of approximately 3 minutes

Serious Moonlight - Rejected Writer's Demo

Seven Digits (1991) - Scratch Vocals. Runtime of 2:56 minutes

Seven Digits (1997) - Likely that it's essentially the same as the 1991 version but with further instrumentation done for inclusion on the BOTDF album


Don't Believe It - Scratch Vocals. Runtime of 5:46 minutes

All The Truth - MJ sings the BGVs while Bryan raps the verses. Runtime of 5:02 minutes

Truth About Youth - Unrelated to 'All The Truth'. LL Cool J performs the parts MJ was supposed to sing

Bubbles - Instrumental. Runtime of 1:30 minutes

Homeless Bound - Experimental track which includes samples with homeless people giving testimonials while Bryan plays the keys. There's another version without the samples that was recently played at a seminar in Bucharest

Call It Off - MJ sings the hook while Bryan Loren performs the verses. The lyrics MJ sings is "Call it off, call the whole thing off. I don't want to marry you."
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Nice work! You can add "Pressure" and "It", I think. Here is what I have in my notes:

Complete songs:
Superfly Sister
Work That Body
Serious Effect
She Got It
Mind Is The Magic
Do The Bartman

Incomplete songs:
Seven Digits
Don’t Believe It

MJ in backing vocals only:
To Satify You
All The Truth
Call It Off
Deep In The Night

Full song rumors, unconfirmed:
Man In Black
Truth About Youth

Demo proposed to MJ, not accepted:
House Groove
Serious Moonlight
Homeless Bound
Garbage
It

Remix by BL:
Son of Thriller

No info:
Stay
Verdict
Pressure
The Choice
Fever
 
# Pressure

Screenshot-2024-09-06-20-45-57-030-edit-com-android-chrome.jpg
 
SmoothMel7 said:
Nice work! You can add "Pressure" and "It", I think. Here is what I have in my notes:

Complete songs:
Superfly Sister
Work That Body
Serious Effect
She Got It
Mind Is The Magic
Do The Bartman

Incomplete songs:
Seven Digits
Don’t Believe It

MJ in backing vocals only:
To Satify You
All The Truth
Call It Off
Deep In The Night

Full song rumors, unconfirmed:
Man In Black
Truth About Youth

Demo proposed to MJ, not accepted:
House Groove
Serious Moonlight
Homeless Bound
Garbage
It

Remix by BL:
Son of Thriller

No info:
Stay
Verdict
Pressure
The Choice
Fever
Click to expand...
Added! Was about to say that Pressure is a Rodney Jerkins title, didn't know there was also a Loren track with that name lol.

Was The Choice ever tied to a specific producer?
 
ChanceToDance said:
Added! Was about to say that Pressure is a Rodney Jerkins title, didn't know there was also a Loren track with that name lol.

Was The Choice ever tied to a specific producer?
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There is a song "Pressure" with Rodney Jerkins on ASCAP and another on BMI with Bryan Loren. It seems to me that the first mention of "Pressure" was on BL's MySpace.

There was a leaked tape of Brad Sundberg with songs including "The Choice." I asked Bill Botrell if he had a hand in these songs and he said most of the songs were by Bryan Loren. So no, it's not 100% confirmed for "The Choice".

Has it been confirmed that the song "Dream Girl" is real and by Bryan Loren?

I'm also looking for information on the song "Fever". I lost my notes, but I remembered that there was only a chorus for this one.
 
Thanks for the detailed breakdown @ChanceToDance

I like the raw funkiness of some of the Loren tracks, but on the whole they do feel a bit dated and at times a bit flat. I think if they came out in 1990 a few may have done well on the charts but there's not much there that's groundbreaking or with any staying power. I do love how free Mike sounds on the tracks though, he's experimenting on them

This has probably been mentioned before, but isn't The Verdict a Janet demo called Work? I'm sure it didn't make the Rhythm Nation album, I think John Cameron mentioned it one of his Janet docs?

Ronald Stain said:
Fake? Or it's real?
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I really like the demo, but this version has just had all the life sucked out of it. Neff U had a thankless job and the strings are a nice touch, but on the whole I see why this version was left in the vault.
 
SmoothCriminal1995 said:
Thanks for the detailed breakdown @ChanceToDance

I like the raw funkiness of some of the Loren tracks, but on the whole they do feel a bit dated and at times a bit flat. I think if they came out in 1990 a few may have done well on the charts but there's not much there that's groundbreaking or with any staying power. I do love how free Mike sounds on the tracks though, he's experimenting on them

This has probably been mentioned before, but isn't The Verdict a Janet demo called Work? I'm sure it didn't make the Rhythm Nation album, I think John Cameron mentioned it one of his Janet docs?


I really like the demo, but this version has just had all the life sucked out of it. Neff U had a thankless job and the strings are a nice touch, but on the whole I see why this version was left in the vault.
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IMO, 2010 version is better than original one. I like it's new modern touch. In case of HT - yes, TR's version was better. But this TYLA I like. Well I like both versions of TYLA, 2010 just a little bit better (due to modern sounds)
 
ChanceToDance said:
The Fandom wiki has all that info and it's accurate for the most part. Whoever cleaned up that place did a good job at it because it was filled with misleading trash before.
michael-jackson.fandom.com

List of unreleased songs

For each album, American singer-songwriter Michael Jackson would write and record many songs, spanning from 30 to 50 or more. However, a majority would ultimately stay in the vault and never see a release, as only 10-15 tracks would be picked to make it on Jackson's records. Many of them were...
michael-jackson.fandom.com michael-jackson.fandom.com
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I believe SirRobowisan11 is behind all those edits. He does an awfully great job at keeping the wiki alive. Always when I passed by there was a lot of unreferenced or invented nonsense. I have created an account there as well (pepik778) and sometimes try to add some of the missing stuff or cleanup the general formatting or incorrect info.
 
AlwaysThere said:
Wow, I completely missed this tweet. Apologies for the mis-correction!

I can't believe the leak is authentic. No wonder the song hasn't been released yet—If that's all the Estate has to work with, that's leagues worse than anything on Thriller 40 or XSCAPE.
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It really took you this long to deduce that it's real? It was kinda obvious from the jump.
 
Yeah I don't feel the thrill for those songs either, even Bryan's best songs are no higher than a 7/10 imo. the only song I was interested in hearing was Seven Digits but that interest quickly went away after we got more snippets and it gave the impression that it's a dull song with a weak melody.

I don't think I'd be disappointed if those tracks made their way to a Dangerous re-issue though, some of those tracks aren't so bad to the point they'd feel like a waste of time if you listened to them but they hit that right amount of mediocrity. The Estate has already put out worse songs after all. looking at you WALWTG
 
Dilan said:
Bryan Lorens work is some of the worst really dont care about these songs
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It's not bad, just very dated. Would not fit very well in the modern age. Even Bryan's newest music sounds like an old guy trying to be hip. Teddy on the other hand, knew of Michael's vision, and conducted it.
 
JamesCMJJ said:
It's not bad, just very dated. Would not fit very well in the modern age. Even Bryan's newest music sounds like an old guy trying to be hip. Teddy on the other hand, knew of Michael's vision, and conducted it.
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It's not about being dated its just bad. The synthesisters on some of MJs songs all sound dated now but people listen because their good songs
 
Objectively, his style just sounds like generic NJS. Even Michael's innate talents couldn't save it. So you're right.
 
JamesCMJJ said:
Objectively, his style just sounds like generic NJS.
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Even the worst New Jack Swing track sounds more hardhitting and appealing than Loren's brand. It's less "new jack swing" and more "half-baked soundtrack to an equally half-baked Film Roman cartoon."
 
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