The Discussion of MJ's Unreleased Tracks

The community is arguing and dislikes that The Estate remixes unreleased songs to be commerically profitable but when they do release the raw demos as Michael left them, you‘re disliking that as well?


Read it again — nobody dislikes them releasing demos.
What people dislike is that they don’t put the effort into tracking down the best available source.
Instead, they release cassette-tape-sounding rips of material that has circulated in far better quality for nearly two decades.

Karen Langford is responsible for this, The Estate doesn‘t really have a team focussed on archiving and restoring material as well as concepting home media releases, except Matt Forger, who is mostly inactive.


Yes.
why don’t they have a dedicated team focusing on exactly that by now? How many years has it been since MJ passed? And all this time they’ve been sitting on millions without properly preserving the legacy?

but yeah, let's defend the awesome estate.
 
The community is arguing and dislikes that The Estate remixes unreleased songs to be commerically profitable but when they do release the raw demos as Michael left them, you‘re disliking that as well?

Carousel is not because it is „untouched“ but because they used a worse source. Karen Langford is responsible for this, The Estate doesn‘t really have a team focussed on archiving and restoring material as well as concepting home media releases, except Matt Forger, who is mostly inactive.
I mentioned Carousel specifically because many of us have had a better quality version for many years.
 
Looking back now it's crazy to think that we got 6 completely unreleased songs on Bad 25.

I'd argue most of them are finished enough to have been on posthumous studio albums as well. So happy we've heard them
It's really weird to look back on, these songs could've been used on Xscape or something. I don't think they'll ever do a release like it again!
 
The Estate releasing "untouched" demos in less than satisfactory quality is in the Estate's MO. Ever since Xscape, they've made it clear that they don't respect the stuff that was left behind as is.

Carousel on Thriller 40 still absolutely blows my mind.
Indeed. Especially the original version of "Chicago which should have had a proper mix to let it shine more.

They even used an earlier version of "Blue Gangsta" as the original version the Xscape... not the final version Michael approved of in his lifetime (which leaked beforehand). That is a very backwards way of doing things in Michael's sense, like taking a step back from his creative vision.

They should let original collaborators have more say where possible in the final songs that get released.
 
Indeed. Especially the original version of "Chicago which should have had a proper mix to let it shine more.

They even used an earlier version of "Blue Gangsta" as the original version the Xscape... not the final version Michael approved of in his lifetime (which leaked beforehand). That is a very backwards way of doing things in Michael's sense, like taking a step back from his creative vision.

They should let original collaborators have more say where possible in the final songs that get released.
I think the reason they used a different version of Blue Gangsta is they were too cheap to pay to have "The good, the Bad and the Ugly" sample cleared. But your point still backs that up. Screw MJ's actual vision.
 
Looking back now it's crazy to think that we got 6 completely unreleased songs on Bad 25.

I'd argue most of them are finished enough to have been on posthumous studio albums as well. So happy we've heard them
well we also got 6 previously unreleased tracks on Thriller 40
 
Indeed. Especially the original version of "Chicago which should have had a proper mix to let it shine more.

They even used an earlier version of "Blue Gangsta" as the original version the Xscape... not the final version Michael approved of in his lifetime (which leaked beforehand). That is a very backwards way of doing things in Michael's sense, like taking a step back from his creative vision.

They should let original collaborators have more say where possible in the final songs that get released.
multiple tracks are earlier or later versions without any real reason why
 
multiple tracks are earlier or later versions without any real reason why
Some of them aren't even earlier OR later versions, like "Don't Be Messin' Round" which seems to be just a 2012 mix put together for Bad 25!

Streetwalker too, I guess... But at least anything released within his lifetime the buck stops with MJ, so that to me is approval. For better or worse.
 
What people dislike is that they don’t put the effort into tracking down the best available source.
Instead, they release cassette-tape-sounding rips of material that has circulated in far better quality for nearly two decades.
That has actually only been Carousel, where a better source does exist. Who Do You Know and Behind The Mask for example only exist on 40 year old cassette tapes. Them choosing completely random tapes of short films or songs, without any quality control is not good tho of course. I was mainly talking about people trashing on the sound quality of the other demos. Sure, I could even deliver a way better listening experience and sound quality and make it sound like an actual studio tape via noise removal, frequency restoration and proper mastering. But then again, first, The Estate would probably do a horrible job at this and second, how much editing should we allow or find acceptable to deliver a „better“ experience? Should it be „better“ or stay „true“ as it is?
but yeah, let's defend the awesome estate.
I don’t want to defend The Estate in any way. They don‘t do their job currently in terms of releases at all.
I mentioned Carousel specifically because many of us have had a better quality version for many years.
That is true, the leaked version is still better than any previous release so far.
Indeed. Especially the original version of "Chicago which should have had a proper mix to let it shine more.
The instrumental doesn‘t exist on multi-tracks. MJ was sent the instrumental as simple 2-track audio and simply overdubbed his vocals on top. You would probably have to track the multi-tracks down heavily, if they even still exist.
I think the reason they used a different version of Blue Gangsta is they were too cheap to pay to have "The good, the Bad and the Ugly" sample cleared. But your point still backs that up. Screw MJ's actual vision.
They even used an earlier version of "Blue Gangsta" as the original version the Xscape... not the final version Michael approved of in his lifetime (which leaked beforehand). That is a very backwards way of doing things in Michael's sense, like taking a step back from his creative vision.

They should let original collaborators have more say where possible in the final songs that get released.
Engineer Michael Prince insists that the record label’s decision to release the more primitive ‘original’ version – lacking all the changes Jackson went on to make – doesn’t align with the pop star’s artistic vision for the song.

“Michael was involved in every nuance of every sound on the record,” explains Michael Prince, “from the hi-hat to the snare to the sticks. If those sounds are removed from the track, it immediately takes a step away from his vision.”

“He’s totally consistent,” adds arranger Brad Buxer.

“He’ll never say one day, ‘Take this part out,’ and then the next day [ask], ‘Where is that part?’ He’ll never do that. He’s totally consistent. So all you’ve got to do is be on your toes and you’ll have a blast working with him. I’ve worked with him for a long time and it’s been the most wonderful experience.”
 
Some of them aren't even earlier OR later versions, like "Don't Be Messin' Round" which seems to be just a 2012 mix put together for Bad 25!

Streetwalker too, I guess... But at least anything released within his lifetime the buck stops with MJ, so that to me is approval. For better or worse.
Don‘t Be Messin Round didn‘t have a Bad-session mix. Matt Forger took the original multi-tracks of the recordings done during the Bad sessions and made a faithful remix, which is totally acceptable in my opinion.

Streetwalker is the lastest mix done by Bill, after being approached by Michael to re-do/re-invent the track. Michael never stated if he liked or disliked that track other than “Billy, that’s country!”
 
Can't Get Out Of The Rain was actually the one I should have mentioned - There was no issue with the version released on King Of Pop CD's in 2008. It's absolutely shocking on Thriller 40.

The one on Thriller 40 basically sums up their incompetence and show's their lack of interest or care about the actual art. Their only care is the enterprise.
 
Don‘t Be Messin Round didn‘t have a Bad-session mix. Matt Forger took the original multi-tracks of the recordings done during the Bad sessions and made a faithful remix, which is totally acceptable in my opinion.

Streetwalker is the lastest mix done by Bill, after being approached by Michael to re-do/re-invent the track. Michael never stated if he liked or disliked that track other than “Billy, that’s country!”
I'm pretty sure I saw people post about how he "hated" the harmonica and how disrespectful this mix was to him. I don't know what goes through some people's heads sometimes the way they read into things. It sounds great and MJ absolutely did not hate it - he released it twice in 2001!
 
Just to put it out there, here are the recording dates / released versions on Bad 25 and Xscape listed:

Bad 25:
Don‘t Be Messin‘ Round - 1986, 2012 Remix
I‘m So Blue - 1986
Abortion Papers - 1984
Free - March 19, 1986
Price Of Fame - 1987
Al Capone - 1984 (was worked on till 1986)

Xscape:
Love Never Felt So Good - 1980 (2011 Remix featuring Paul Anka exists - Duets)
She Was Loving Me - 1999
Loving You - 1985
A Place With No Name - 2008 (break shortened)
Slave To The Rhythm - 1991
Do You Know Where Your Children Are - 1986 (further developed version from 1990 exists)
Blue Gangsta - 1998 (latest mix done in 2008 exists
Xscape - 1999 (latest mix done in 2001 exists)
 
It's bloody brilliant! The one I had been listening to all these years had a clunky bit in the middle - like you say it's completely transformed it!

Shoutout @[as.mjfam]
That was as.mjfam.

He basically brought back Another Day to life for me. Been playing it a lot since he dropped it.
Thanks a lot! 🙏🏼✨

Btw, i made my acapella mix of This Is It, using MVSep model for vocal extraction, and a bit of my mixing skills to fix missing bass BGs in some places in choruses (messed up synchronization for a bit at the end, but i hope it's not really critical). Basically, it's just filtered acapella, but sounds really good for filtered one, so i wanna share it.

Enjoy :)

Edited: whoopsy, forgot to add link: https://voca.ro/1loZWF3Y1Fmc
 
Thanks a lot! 🙏🏼✨

Btw, i made my acapella mix of This Is It, using MVSep model for vocal extraction, and a bit of my mixing skills to fix missing bass BGs in some places in choruses (messed up synchronization for a bit at the end, but i hope it's not really critical). Basically, it's just filtered acapella, but sounds really good for filtered one, so i wanna share it.

Enjoy :)

Edited: whoopsy, forgot to add link: https://voca.ro/1loZWF3Y1Fmc
Very good work! I'm sure this acappella could be used to make new mixes/remixes of the song
 
Looking back now it's crazy to think that we got 6 completely unreleased songs on Bad 25.

I'd argue most of them are finished enough to have been on posthumous studio albums as well. So happy we've heard them
I honestly think they went above and beyond for the Bad 25 project to get back into the good grace of the fans after the whole Michael (album) disaster from 2010.
 
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