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The Discussion of MJ's Unreleased Tracks

innuendo141 said:
It's one of the few songs where I think MJ "over sings". I like the song, but I prefer "Just Good Friends" by a good bit.
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I see it like Michael was portraying himself in a manner of speaking, a rival portrayl. He’s Michael Jackson, and he’s Bad™️ (Out Now)

I like it.
 
Fuzball said:
Cheater dates back to Soundcastle (1984). According to Bottrell.
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Correction, 1984 or 1985. My bad.


I didn't say Cheater was considered for Victory.
It was a song done at Soundcastle (maybe) at the end of or after Victory sessions. I could look it up but not now.


I hear "Cheater" for the first time a month ago. I heard Greg. I remember one song done at Soundcastle with Greg and MJ. I remember John McClain there, I remember doing claps in my usual way.
I can hear my console, my studio, my mixing style in '85.
I can hear all that in the recording of Cheater.
I have no other song to place in those sessions.
I could be wrong.
But credits on unreleased songs are notoriously wrong also.


I heard Cheater again yesterday. Credits and dates on various sites do not match what I was thinking.
Sites say outtake from Westake/Quincy sessions for Bad.
I can not hear that. At all.
Somebody should reach out to Greg
 
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threepea11 said:
Streetwalker wasn’t discarded til atleast 2 weeks before the album released. It wasn’t discarded early
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The configuration people see is when the songs were transferred on the tape. It was already decided it wasn’t going to be used way in advance. Brad said configurations of the album were being done to include SW because they were sequencing the album with whatever songs were available at the time
 
Fuzball said:
Cheater dates back to Soundcastle (1984). According to Bottrell.
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Not exactly, though, considering the drum machine on it (the Linn 9000) came out in December 1984 from my research. And features on a lot of Bad demos made in 1985-86.
Assuming Michael did not have a prototype of that machine (and there is no evidence he did), it makes sense to say post-1984. Likewise with APOM.

It seems Cheater was not documented in Bottrell’s notes for the Bad sessions so he thinks it is from 1984 from his memory.

Perhaps an earlier version/idea came from the Victory sessions in 83/84. But the recording we have most certainly dates to the Bad sessions at Hayvenhurst in 85/86.
 
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BlackAnon said:
The configuration people see is when the songs were transferred on the tape. It was already decided it wasn’t going to be used way in advance. Brad said configurations of the album were being done to include SW because they were sequencing the album with whatever songs were available at the time
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Dude its been reported separately that they decided 2 weeks before lol
 
Eventidescape1 said:
Not exactly, though, considering the drum machine on it (the Linn 9000) came out in December 1984 from my research. And features on a lot of Bad demos made in 1985-86.
Assuming Michael did not have a prototype of that machine
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John Barnes had good connections to the industry; he got several custom made devices of which some may have served as prototypes to later released products.

Eventidescape1 said:
But the recording we have most certainly dates to the Bad sessions at Hayvenhurst in 85/86.
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Bill's most certain he doesn't hear Hayvenhurst on Cheater.
 
threepea11 said:
I wouldn't trust sundberg
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But would trust a made-up source🤣
I think you’re referring to the tape with streetwalker on it, still we don’t know if Streetwalker was/wasn’t discarded already based on that picture. I’d rather trust someone that was actually there for now
 
michaeljackson.nl said:
But would trust a made-up source🤣
I think you’re referring to the tape with streetwalker on it, still we don’t know if Streetwalker was/wasn’t discarded already based on that picture. I’d rather trust someone that was actually there for now
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Yea I was, but I swear I saw a source somewhere that confirmed that, prolly just deja vu or something
 
Fuzball said:
John Barnes had good connections to the industry; he got several custom made devices of which some may have served as prototypes to later released products.


Bill's most certain he doesn't hear Hayvenhurst on Cheater.
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Yes, but there is no information confirming Michael having access to the Linn 9000 before its release in December 1984. But he obviously had it soon after, recording APOM with it in Feb ‘85 for Captain EO and all other Bad demos.
 
michaeljackson.nl said:
But would trust a made-up source🤣
I think you’re referring to the tape with streetwalker on it, still we don’t know if Streetwalker was/wasn’t discarded already based on that picture. I’d rather trust someone that was actually there for now
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Album sequencing/song choice were made long before pressing, much less printing. To clarify, it is possible that Epic was doing test artwork for Michael to see, but to the best of my memory there was never a finished pressing with this sequence....the studio crew and the graphics guys really had no interaction. This was likely more of a test of fonts and layout......I'm sure there were many sample covers as the artwork was refined for this and many of the projects, based on the song titles available at that point in the project. - Brad Sundberg on Streetwalker being listed on BAD tapes and test pressings

Goes back to me saying SW was discarded early in production and not 2 weeks before an album release which would be crazy. Anything that showed SW on the track list is because those were the songs brought to the studio at the time to be worked on. Quincy already knew SW and APOM couldn't exist on the album so Frank was the tie breaker between him and Michael. Frank chose APOM and they began working on the track. Quincy isn't going to mix a song that not's going on the album as it would be a waste of both studio time and money.
 
Fuzball said:
Correction, 1984 or 1985. My bad.


I didn't say Cheater was considered for Victory.
It was a song done at Soundcastle (maybe) at the end of or after Victory sessions. I could look it up but not now.


I hear "Cheater" for the first time a month ago. I heard Greg. I remember one song done at Soundcastle with Greg and MJ. I remember John McClain there, I remember doing claps in my usual way.
I can hear my console, my studio, my mixing style in '85.
I can hear all that in the recording of Cheater.
I have no other song to place in those sessions.
I could be wrong.
But credits on unreleased songs are notoriously wrong also.


I heard Cheater again yesterday. Credits and dates on various sites do not match what I was thinking.
Sites say outtake from Westake/Quincy sessions for Bad.
I can not hear that. At all.
Somebody should reach out to Greg
Click to expand...
Greg doesn't discuss stuff with the proletariat though, does he? Could be wrong. I never see stuff posted on here.
 
BlackAnon said:
Album sequencing/song choice were made long before pressing, much less printing. To clarify, it is possible that Epic was doing test artwork for Michael to see, but to the best of my memory there was never a finished pressing with this sequence....the studio crew and the graphics guys really had no interaction. This was likely more of a test of fonts and layout......I'm sure there were many sample covers as the artwork was refined for this and many of the projects, based on the song titles available at that point in the project. - Brad Sundberg on Streetwalker being listed on BAD tapes and test pressings

Goes back to me saying SW was discarded early in production and not 2 weeks before an album release which would be crazy. Anything that showed SW on the track list is because those were the songs brought to the studio at the time to be worked on. Quincy already knew SW and APOM couldn't exist on the album so Frank was the tie breaker between him and Michael. Frank chose APOM and they began working on the track. Quincy isn't going to mix a song that not's going on the album as it would be a waste of both studio time and money.
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Technically, if it was during the final overdubbing & mixing stage that they decided between APOM and Streetwalker. That is considerably later in the production of Bad. Not earlier.

Russ Ragsdale mentioned on gearspace forums that Humberto Gatica worked on Streetwalker for two weeks... Humberto was brought in last-minute to help finishing the record, working in Westlake Studio C while Bruce worked in Studio D. He is credited on Streetwalker for engineering in the 2001 Bad SE after all… So it can’t be early in the process that they discarded it, if Humberto worked on it.
 
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