The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and Other Theories

[Hamburglar]

I watched the videos. I doubt the body was cryogenic, of course - it has blood, urine. I have my thoughts about possible dark side of cryogenic business, it's just on the surface that they can provide bodies... I don't know if they actually do. But how do you explain levels of propofol? And why there is no data about the brain in that autopsy report?

Oh I don't know about any dark side of cryogenics. That is possible but irrelevant to the hoax in my opinion since this was clearly not a cryo body.

You have to assume that there actually was an autopsy performed on someone, which in my opinion is not a given when you look at the inconsistencies. The body was identified by Michael's driver's license (his number at least) yet the name does not match the driver's license since we know his DL has 'Joe' listed as his middle name, not Joseph. Then the height and hair color are way off as well, so some shady shit is going on there. Also, we do not get to see the name of his mother, something that would be totally insane to redact since the whole world knows who his mother is. So the autopsy report is, in my opinion, fake. A prop. Just like the death certificate, the will, the trust, and even the Murray trial. You don't have to be a lawyer to know that this whole trial didn't make sense when you watched the whole thing and that there was tempering with evidence. Then we also can't find Murray's booking in the jail system and we can not find Michael's case report in the coroner's system. All those little things tell me none of it was ever real, even though most people involved probably believed it was. Why didn't the medical examiner who performed the autopsy and signed the death certificate testify in court? There is too many questions, and no reasonable answers. Do I believe there was a body? Yes I do. I think someone who was terminally ill died there (not sure if that was on June 25th or before) but without an actual body too many people need to be 'in on it'. But it would explain the stories of the people working on the body that it didn't look like Michael Jackson and that it seemed to be a hospice patient. For the actual levels of propofol found I'd have to consult with a friend who is a doctor and actually listen to the exact testimonies again to see if there would even be a logical explanation or if it's entirely fabricated. The other drugs found and the bills for all the rented medical equipment tells me someone there died of either cancer or maybe AIDS, but that person certainly couldn't have been rehearsing the night before.

But I will listen to the testimonies again (it's been 12 years so not very fresh in my memory anymore) and I will report back.

 

[BadOneForever]

Re: The hoax site...



Obviously you did not understand me. There is nothing more in this world I want; those evil people that hurted Michael should pay. A LOT of ppl who have hurt Michael so much are living like nothing happened. All those horrible acusations...the trial..and so on.
And besides, I have a right to my own feelings and hopes. I said it"s my way of dealing with the pain sometimes.
For example, if you said that you belive that Michael is alive....who am I to judge you ?
If there is something I could do to help put his killers in prison for life, belive me, I would.

I’m reading “ppl who killed” and “killers” I’m new here, can we further discuss who we all believe these “people” to be, because I have suspicions of a lot of individuals and believe everyone was strategically place to carry this out. It’s been 14 years and I cannot get over how Murray did less then 2 years for unaliving MICHAEL JACKSON and how everyone else are going along smiling as if it didn’t happen. How Sony immediately bought back his catalogue, how the estate is trying to sale MJs catalogue. In my humble opinion MJ would never agree to that. I believe more people than anyone would expect conspired to do this to our Michael. I didn’t start my research for the truth until this year.

 

[SmileyfaceTheGuy89]

Anyone who still believed he faked his death, deserves to have that said belief be ridiculed, in my honest opinion.

 

[SoS]

By your reasoning it's just as much (or more) speculation that he died on June 25th, 2009. Yet it is only the hoaxers who are being called crazy without arguments, not the other way around. Of course there is no PROOF, the only proof would be Michael in the flesh telling the world (and even then I do believe some will say it's not him), but there is more evidence of him being alive than dead. And yes, everyone can believe whatever they wish. But don’t call the other side crazy without doing your own investigation.

Re: bolded:
They won’t. Do any investigation.

If the “official story” doesn’t match conversation, then they assUme the official story is the “gospel truth”and any independent observations to the contrary are “crazy” …

I see no choice here but to completely ignore them unless pure logical analysis supports their point of view. They add nothing to the analysis. Just a merry-go-round.

 

[SoS]

Oh I don't know about any dark side of cryogenics. That is possible but irrelevant to the hoax in my opinion since this was clearly not a cryo body.

You have to assume that there actually was an autopsy performed on someone, which in my opinion is not a given when you look at the inconsistencies. The body was identified by Michael's driver's license (his number at least) yet the name does not match the driver's license since we know his DL has 'Joe' listed as his middle name, not Joseph. Then the height and hair color are way off as well, so some shady shit is going on there. Also, we do not get to see the name of his mother, something that would be totally insane to redact since the whole world knows who his mother is. So the autopsy report is, in my opinion, fake. A prop. Just like the death certificate, the will, the trust, and even the Murray trial. You don't have to be a lawyer to know that this whole trial didn't make sense when you watched the whole thing and that there was tempering with evidence. Then we also can't find Murray's booking in the jail system and we can not find Michael's case report in the coroner's system. All those little things tell me none of it was ever real, even though most people involved probably believed it was. Why didn't the medical examiner who performed the autopsy and signed the death certificate testify in court? There is too many questions, and no reasonable answers. Do I believe there was a body? Yes I do. I think someone who was terminally ill died there (not sure if that was on June 25th or before) but without an actual body too many people need to be 'in on it'. But it would explain the stories of the people working on the body that it didn't look like Michael Jackson and that it seemed to be a hospice patient. For the actual levels of propofol found I'd have to consult with a friend who is a doctor and actually listen to the exact testimonies again to see if there would even be a logical explanation or if it's entirely fabricated. The other drugs found and the bills for all the rented medical equipment tells me someone there died of either cancer or maybe AIDS, but that person certainly couldn't have been rehearsing the night before.

But I will listen to the testimonies again (it's been 12 years so not very fresh in my memory anymore) and I will report back.

All these!

Additionally, I just want to say to those who say “prove he’s alive”, I seriously doubt that anyone is trying to prove he’s alive.

Proving he’s alive would be sort like trying to prove a negative because the only proof would be for MJ to emerge.

So the only thing that is provable is what is implausible about the whole thing

That is, from audience participation perspective who deeply dive into the details.

The “tabloid junkie” mentality of fans cannot bother to think that hard…seriously…just show ‘em the headlines and they’re good.

All this game. . . “hoax”…VRG or whatever this is seems to be directed to the fans who refuse to leave well enough alone

even if it means looking crazy in the eyes of those who prefer the sense of “closure” they get from accepting whatever they’re told and just letting it go.

 

[SoS]

I’m reading “ppl who killed” and “killers” I’m new here, can we further discuss who we all believe these “people” to be, because I have suspicions of a lot of individuals and believe everyone was strategically place to carry this out. It’s been 14 years and I cannot get over how Murray did less then 2 years for unaliving MICHAEL JACKSON and how everyone else are going along smiling as if it didn’t happen. How Sony immediately bought back his catalogue, how the estate is trying to sale MJs catalogue. In my humble opinion MJ would never agree to that. I believe more people than anyone would expect conspired to do this to our Michael. I didn’t start my research for the truth until this year.

I’ve been wondering this same stuff.

I was wondering if this all might have been preemptive on the family’s part, and trusted friends to play the role of ..

..in order to prevent the very thing everyone has told us was a very real threat to his (and/or family members) life/lives so it makes sense that they in the family who told us that Michael said his life was in danger and all of them who knew all about this threat didn’t just twiddle their thumbs waiting around for it to happen.

One other thing I found interesting is that Latoya mentioned someone else in the house when Michael came home.

Did anyone note who that was?

The question then becomes what role did AEG really play in the whole thing?

If they were a part of making this all a ruse, why would Latoya mention someone from AEG as being suspect?

Was the AEG suit a ruse?

 

[Hamburglar]

Anyone who still believed he faked his death, deserves to have that said belief be ridiculed, in my honest opinion.

Ok ridicule me. But use arguments or else you'd be ridiculing yourself. I will wait...

 

[otorten]

Anyone who still believed he faked his death, deserves to have that said belief be ridiculed, in my honest opinion.

Believe it or not, I came to this idea - faked death - only this year. All previous years I lived in the accepted reality and didn't think much about it. Even younger people die, nothing weird. But inconsistencies in that case made me question many things in this case. So far we discuss facts of inconsistencies and what this may mean...

 

[otorten]

I am watching CM trial, first days, and there Alvarez and Faheem Muhammad, bodyguards, who were in the house, state they came when Murray was making CPR and saw MJ, his eyes, face... he was on the bed. So would it be possible that this was another body? I think all these men were able to recognize MJ...or in fact they thought it was him, but didn't clearly see his face? I also found it strange that in all the chaos they took his little children to hospital. Is it common in USA? I would rather make their nanny and children stay home until something is clear...

 

[wendijane]

But if he is free and happy ..we should just be happy that he still is around and just leave him be. Let him be he's been working since day dot.
Let it go. What do you guys think ?

 

[Hamburglar]

But if he is free and happy ..we should just be happy that he still is around and just leave him be. Let him be he's been working since day dot.
Let it go. What do you guys think ?

If he wanted us not to look into it, why make it so obvious? Why not have a believable death?

 

[wendijane]

If he wanted us not to look into it, why make it so obvious? Why not have a believable death?

The thing is though ..say he really did fake it right , oh i'd be over the moon mate i would cry tears of joy.. like omg you are alive ok won't disturb you i love you k bye etc lol but .... well what ..then. we can't exactly invite him in for a cuppa i mean what if he just does't want to be found. Why does he need to be uncovered . I mean, what if this practise is protocol for celebrities the moment you sign that contract?. What , as kid supporters or adult supporters are we meant to do? We can't do anything about it. I truly don't see why we should.
All good things must come to an end.
On that speech , the cursed 02 one, were we as supporters supposed to like... mind read him? I know he goes "because um..." and he does'nt say anything more about it. Were we supposed to cotton on then? And then....what ? prevent something that had to happen?

This stuff is interesting and im not knocking the thread [ please don't kick me out] cause i do agree with quite a bit of it because the last thing i want is that eternally beautiful childhood hero of mine dead in the ground, but ...it's bloody scary mate because we don't know the reasons why he might had done this , and i just think it's a risk and maybe a bit pointless at this point.
You know the saying - Be careful what you wish for ? It sort of comes to my mind.

edit- so much edits i'm sorry

 

[Hamburglar]

Well exactly, but we can FIND OUT the reasons he did that. Of course he doesn't want to be found, and most of us are not trying to smoke him out. But we can investigate it all and see what he told us in many ways for so many years.

"It's an adventure, a great adventure! It's nothing to be nervous about."

 

[wendijane]

Well exactly, but we can FIND OUT the reasons he did that. Of course he doesn't want to be found, and most of us are not trying to smoke him out. But we can investigate it all and see what he told us in many ways for so many years.

"It's an adventure, a great adventure!

....

It's nothing to be nervous about."

Ah ya got me -it's bloody terrifying mate i'd stop if i was you lol . i say this in the name of love alright

 

[SoS]

The thing is though ..say he really did fake it right , oh i'd be over the moon mate i would cry tears of joy.. like omg you are alive ok won't disturb you i love you k bye etc lol but .... well what ..then. we can't exactly invite him in for a cuppa i mean what if he just does't want to be found. Why does he need to be uncovered . I mean, what if this practise is protocol for celebrities the moment you sign that contract?. What , as kid supporters or adult supporters are we meant to do? We can't do anything about it. I truly don't see why we should.
All good things must come to an end.
On that speech , the cursed 02 one, were we as supporters supposed to like... mind read him? I know he goes "because um..." and he does'nt say anything more about it. Were we supposed to cotton on then? And then....what ? prevent something that had to happen?

This stuff is interesting and im not knocking the thread [ please don't kick me out] cause i do agree with quite a bit of it because the last thing i want is that eternally beautiful childhood hero of mine dead in the ground, but ...it's bloody scary mate because we don't know the reasons why he might had done this , and i just think it's a risk and maybe a bit pointless at this point.
You know the saying - Be careful what you wish for ? It sort of comes to my mind.

edit- so much edits i'm sorry

I totally understand and agree with your points and initially felt the same way about letting it/him be, because to your point about offering him a cuppa, I feel that if he’s alive and doesn’t ring my door bell then why would it even matter to me one way or the other!? Patently 100% none of my/our business.

The only problem is, the funeral and the memorial photos that were used were the Liberian Girl theme from 20 years ago/prior. There were tons of recent pics to choose from but ALL the pics were vintage — practically begging questions as to WHY. Nobody asked the obvious questions about that or why the ambulance photo seemed to be also old from that era

No Luomo Vogue, no Ebony magazine from 2008, no family photo of him from the gatherings weeks prior..nothing! Just him as a child, Bad era and Dangerous as I recall; someone please correct me if I’m wrong about that which seems had to be done either as a message or some other important signal for our “attention”

And the DaveDave antics had to be done to start a long conversation among fans.

Re: the below pics of Dave Dave:

The second pic was from the Leeza show in 1994 if I have that correct.



While I too see how it could be not helpful to him, he’s given us so many clues that it seems he wants to “play with” us, that I just figure since that’s the case then let’s play along with him.

On a more serious note tho…If he’s somewhere “hiding out”, not performing or rehearsing or collaborating or creating then he’s (with creative people syndrome) somewhere bored out of his mind and not to mention (tho I did already) fighting off jealous so-called friends pandering to him to keep him dependent (weak position)

And just the thought of him trying to eeek a healthy social life out of envious people around him whoever they are he has to deal with and people he’d have to have been at the mercy of all this time weakening his position even more

…that’s just challenging to anyone and too much to even fathom the projections in my mind of the level of messy that I can imagine

I’m just being a worry wart over that…but the thought of it does bother me more so than the thought of anything else that he might deal with because he’s been surrounded all his life by people who all had agendas, and also they had one thing he didn’t have growing up besides a care-free childhood and that’s everyday street smarts/common sense because never has he been required to, as he was totally protected ALL his life

and he was always attracting dark, wicked, jealous people with the darkest of “slick Willy” street smarts themselves

and generally the darkest among them are gonna be crafty and dangerous to anyone who’s kindness they think they can abuse.

If he died that day everyone in that house who was supposed to protect him let him down. How much safer would he be with people he has no choice but to fully rely on?…to keep him and his secret safe? That’s the only thing that I would find very worrying because I’m not even sure he’d know how to keep people especially females out of his pockets to the point of destruction because according to him in LWMJ his house was full of them at Neverland and you know he got used to all the throngs of female attention from fans (and who’s not one) and because women are drawn to him like ants to a gumdrop and he was used to “people-pleasing” as in, “give the people what they want” and when I think of how conniving a heartless low-life seductress can be with men they plot against it makes me shiver. Don’t mind me I’m just OLD and believe I’ve seen it ALL…and also, I had a really special, super kind, super good looking brother who women were crazy about and I always worried for him as he too was attracted (really loved) witches


As I recall he didn’t even buy his own under clothes *sigh* I hope that changed and that he grew out of being “babied”

Would he be able to buy a Visa gift card, get a cell phone, summon an Uber (can you do that with a gift card? Can’t you buy them without I.D.?) to the airport and then to my house ahahaha ok I feel better. Guess I just needed a good chuckle. but yes the thought of it all makes me nervous for him tbh.

I seem to recall pretty much all the Jackson siblings saying the same thing when it first happened: “it’s gonna all come out” and so in the meantime these many years later, we wait in the only way MJ fans know how….by being all in his binness…investigative and nosey knowing nothing about it all in real life lol.

If “they” (whoever makes up the “they” committee) didn’t want us to do this they should have had a normal memorial a normal funeral and kept all the rediculousness out of the public eye. No disrespect intended just being actual. I can also see how it could possibly put him in extremely uncomfortable situations because everyone he trusts has every reason to be extremely jealous of him, after the fact. The Musical..the One show, the record sales, the legacy… if he’s alive at this point he might would need some good righteous folks’ prayers.

Peek-A-Boo who are you

 

[SoS]

Pics of Dave Dave:

 

[wendijane]

SOS! so glad you replied, ty
.. it's too much
give me a minute

 

[Hamburglar]

On a more serious note tho…If he’s somewhere “hiding out”, not performing or rehearsing or collaborating or creating then he’s (with creative people syndrome) somewhere bored out of his mind and not to mention (tho I did already) fighting off jealous so-called friends pandering to him to keep him dependent (weak position

Hiding is one thing, but why would you think he's not doing anything or creating anything? It's lonely I bet, but that doesn't mean he has to be bored out of his mind. In fact, he might be busy even with all kinds of stuff. I doubt he'd be fighting off jealous so-called friends because I highly doubt more than 10-12 people even know about it.

I’m just being a worry wart over that…but the thought of it does bother me more so than the thought of anything else that he might deal with because he’s been surrounded all his life by people who all had agendas, and also they had one thing he didn’t have growing up besides a care-free childhood and that’s everyday street smarts/common sense because never has he been required to, as he was totally protected ALL his life

and he was always attracting dark, wicked, jealous people with the darkest of “slick Willy” street smarts themselves

and generally the darkest among them are gonna be crafty and dangerous to anyone who’s kindness they think they can abuse.

I think you might underestimate his so-called "street smartness". We know nearly nothing about his day-to-day life. We know only what we heard in the media or the tiny bits he shared himself. He was known to go out in public in disguise and to study other people. As much as I doubt that he ever really could understand how life is for us 'normal people', I do believe he knows way more than people realize. As for common sense, I don't see why he wouldn't have much of that. You don't become a billionaire before the age of 30 if you don't have common sense, or street smartness for that matter.

If he died that day everyone in that house who was supposed to protect him let him down. How much safer would he be with people he has no choice but to fully rely on?…to keep him and his secret safe? That’s the only thing that I would find very worrying because I’m not even sure he’d know how to keep people especially females out of his pockets to the point of destruction because according to him in LWMJ his house was full of them at Neverland and you know he got used to all the throngs of female attention from fans (and who’s not one) and because women are drawn to him like ants to a gumdrop and he was used to “people-pleasing” as in, “give the people what they want” and when I think of how conniving a heartless low-life seductress can be with men they plot against it makes me shiver. Don’t mind me I’m just OLD and believe I’ve seen it ALL…and also, I had a really special, super kind, super good looking brother who women were crazy about and I always worried for him as he too was attracted (really loved) witches

If you believe he is still alive you HAVE TO accept that he has staged it himself. As for people not 'protecting' him on June 25th, that must have been by his design, whether those people knew anything or not. I also doubt he would have women con him to such an extend. Maybe when he was younger, but I think it's safe to guess he smartened up on that issue, maybe even to an extend where he doesn't trust any woman. Your view of him is too weak in my opinion. He is one tough cookie or he wouldn't have made it to 25. Don't judge a book by its cover. One of Michael's favorite books is "The 48 Laws of Power". You should read it, it might give you a sense of what he was interested in behind the mask. Lisa Marie said he is a master manipulator. I believe her. He is still around because he knows how to manipulate not only his adversaries, but the whole world. The art of war: appear weak when you are strong.

As I recall he didn’t even buy his own under clothes *sigh* I hope that changed and that he grew out of being “babied”

Would he be able to buy a Visa gift card, get a cell phone, summon an Uber (can you do that with a gift card? Can’t you buy them without I.D.?) to the airport and then to my house ahahaha ok I feel better. Guess I just needed a good chuckle. but yes the thought of it all makes me nervous for him tbh.

I believe that comes from Pearl, who thought she had to buy him T-shirts because apparently Michael the hoarder who bought everything on Amazon twice can't figure out how to buy clothes. LOL!! If there is one thing I am 10000000% sure of is that the man knows how to buy shit.

As for the ID, if he has been in hiding you can be sure he has that covered. He has a hundred aliases, and if law enforcement is somehow involved he is likely under some type of witness protection which means a fake ID was created for him, maybe multiple in his case. I do believe this took much longer than planned, which means he doesn't have access to the amount of money he'd wish and is on some type of allowance. But I am sure his daily allowance is probably what we make in a year, lol.

I seem to recall pretty much all the Jackson siblings saying the same thing when it first happened: “it’s gonna all come out” and so in the meantime these many years later, we wait in the only way MJ fans know how….by being all in his binness…investigative and nosey knowing nothing about it all in real life lol.

Yes, it's something I used to have a problem with, having to put my nose in his business like that. It felt like invading his privacy. But eventually I let it go and thought he should have done a better job being dead if he didn't like people minding his business, lol.

If “they” (whoever makes up the “they” committee) didn’t want us to do this they should have had a normal memorial a normal funeral and kept all the rediculousness out of the public eye. No disrespect intended just being actual. I can also see how it could possibly put him in extremely uncomfortable situations because everyone he trusts has every reason to be extremely jealous of him, after the fact. The Musical..the One show, the record sales, the legacy… if he’s alive at this point he might would need some good righteous folks’ prayers.

Unfortunately that is one of the things I learned early on about him, and that is that he can't trust anyone. His so called friends and even his family want a piece of him, he's their ATM. But I am sure he knows that. It is known everyone in his life is heavily tested and screened. But it's sad, I feel bad for him. He will always have to wonder if people want to be around him because of his funny, caring and slightly offensive character or if they just expect something from him and will be his yes-man in order to get what they want. I think one of the biggest problems has been that no one dared to tell him no, or call him a dickhead when he deserved it, or be honest about whatever, simply out of fear for losing their cash cow. I think that is what he needed around him. As much as he was adored and idolized by the world in his life, real love comes from the people who tell you the truth, even when you don't want to hear it.

Funny, as I am typing this, he is played on the radio, "Bad". I just can't get away from this guy! He was so young there, yet he was already calling out the assholes. Tell me, is this what a weak man would write and actually release? Don't worry too much about him, he's a big boy. But keep him in your prayers!

Ah, your butt is mine, gon' tell you right, ah
Just show your face in broad daylight, ah
I'm tellin' you on who I feel, ah
Gonna hurt your mind, don't shoot to kill
Shamone, ah, shamone
Lay it on me, ah, alright
Ah, I'm givin' you on count to three, ah
Just show your stuff or let it be, ah
I'm tellin' you, just watch your mouth, ah
I know your game, what you're about
Well, they say the sky's the limit
And to me that's really true, ah
But, my friend, you have seen nothin'
Just wait 'til I get through
Because I'm bad, I'm bad, shamone (bad, bad, really, really bad)
You know I'm bad, I'm bad (bad, bad)
You know it (really, really bad)
You know I'm bad, I'm bad (bad, bad)
Shamone, you know (really, really bad)
And the whole world has to answer right now
Just to tell you once again
Who's bad?
The word is out, you're doin' it wrong, ah
Gon' lock you up before too long, ah
Your lyin' eyes gon' tell you right, ah
So listen up, don't make a fight, ah
Your talk is cheap, you're not a man, ah
You're throwin' stones to hide your hands

 

[wendijane]

I totally understand and agree with your points

@SoS I really appreciate your answer because you were there in the TLITD thread way back when -and very much an OG here so im really happy you are here , cause most of em have gone ~ i'm going to try and talk with you and break down bits with you. This has done my head in since 2011. But then m is always gonna be on my mind.
Alright ok here we go.

Thank You .. yeah i appreciate it sos Since it is kind of hard to get it all out , ... i have not really stopped believing, i guess and i used to have this conversation about how the world is possibly run on a mechanical backward clockwork way and there is much engineering. I would talk with one of the most strong as steel supporters on here who doesn't come on here any more. But they really knew their stuff and i would say opened my eyes very much and it was at those critical times when m passed. I'm grateful , eternally i miss that VW knowledge.

and initially felt the same way about letting it/him be, because to your point about offering him a cuppa,

Just a normal thing to wanna do mate lol

I feel that if he’s alive and doesn’t ring my dad’s doorbell up yonder here at the house then why would it even matter to me one way or the other!? Patently 100% none of my/our business.

mm That's when i stop because it is none of my beeswax but. here comes the child in me SoS ~ there is always that thing at the back of that - a what if. and then a weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee what IF !????? you know . [ i can really go off on this lol]

The only problem is, the funeral and the memorial photos that were used were the Liberian Girl theme from 20 years ago/prior. There were tons of recent pics to choose from but ALL the pics were vintage — practically begging questions as to WHY. Nobody asked the obvious questions about that or why the ambulance photo seemed to be also old from that era

No Luomo Vogue, no Ebony magazine from 2008, no family photo of him from the gatherings weeks prior..nothing! Just him as a child, Bad era and Dangerous as I recall; someone please correct me if I’m wrong about that which seems had to be done either as a message

Someone will correct us i guess

or some other important signal for our “attention”

I'm all ears at this point i'm like mickey rat [1980s cartoon character -bit naughty /cheeky]

And the DaveDave antics had to be done to start a long conversation among fans.

Re: the below pics of Dave Dave:

The second pic was from the Leeza show in 1994 if I have that correct.

I felt it could have been. Thing is because he , himself - the man who this community is all about/ focused celebrating on / taught us to always be open minded on everything. I remember putting on a CV template in business studies at school - 'open minded' and feeling proud of that - because m had taught me that! lol [i was a kid] I was already emotional though.. lol I already came with that big ball of emotion before i hit this community ...so i might be crying as i type to ya sorry . lol because...

Dave Dave was a big thing ....it really got to this fan a huge conversation i remember talking over this , on msn to that believer [VW] i mentioned. [we spoke of everything, every possibility he prepared me for ] I even got to thinking into reverse thinking - was DD mj ... the man i really loved ?---the ghostwriter a silent twin - the one who was like .... the great OZ if you think that way and then who was that on the 02 stage then ? was the one on stage the twin , Brandon [who maybe never really died etc] or was he barry ./a clone etc - i was ready to love dave dave if that was the case ! / real michael composing that music , teaching me those strong powerful messages which you know , shaped me as person.
But VW said no don't sharyn lets probably not go that way ! he kept laughing that night lol I was grieving- We all were.
And then Dave Dave has died right ? He too, is not with us now .

While I too see how it could be not helpful to him, he’s given us so many clues that it seems he wants to “play with” us, that I just figure since that’s the case then let’s play along with him.

so it is ...that thinking , well it just comes natural to me , you know ? So , i for 1 who have supported m since 1991 Nov 14 th supporting /thinking that mindset - well, you can't just push all that aside. You know? I can't .In a way , It's burnt into me [ is that stupid crazy talk now]
i wanna play! haha ~ A lovely quote ~ALL OF US ARE PRODUCTS OF OUR CHILDHOOD" - Michael Jackson.

On a more serious note tho…If he’s somewhere “hiding out”, not performing or rehearsing or collaborating or creating then he’s

Well i really wish this , Hoping that m is happy no matter what

(with creative people syndrome)

Yes i understand this

somewhere bored out of his mind

This is the part that made me wince I really really really hope he is not bored outta his bloody skull poor bloke , because how can a creative mind ever be happy doing nothing , no art ? at all ...like everrrr - everything stop?...As we know the art is the huge core to these types of person being more than an extension of them. It is them. their core. it's their heart.they are married to their music. Each song is a baby , it's a child -usually a personal extension of them/ their experiences I get it. u know to a degree.

and not to mention (tho I did already)

mention many times as you want i am grateful for the breaking it down

fighting off jealous so-called friends pandering to him to keep him dependent (weak position

And just the thought of him trying to eeek a healthy social life out of envious people around him whoever they are he has to deal with and people he’d have to have been at the mercy of all this time weakening his position even more

understood - i might add to this in a little bit

…that’s just challenging to anyone

I really appreciate though the way you are making me think and the challenge i don't usually mind one bit! lol

and too much to even fathom the projections in my mind of the level of messy that I can imagine

thats why i prefer my older people company 2 talk abou this because they stretch your limits of what if

I’m just being a worry wart over that…

I think you are very considerate and it shows tbh

but the thought of it does bother me more so than the thought of anything else that he might deal with because he’s been surrounded all his life by people who all had agendas, and also they had one thing he didn’t have growing up besides a care-free childhood and that’s everyday street smarts/common sense because never has he been required to, as he was totally protected ALL his life

Yes i cant imagine . if we put ourselves in his shoes .. oh , man ! such so much things to think of here

and he was always attracting dark, wicked, jealous people with the darkest of “slick Willy” street smarts themselves

and generally the darkest among them are gonna be crafty and dangerous to anyone who’s kindness they think they can abuse.

If he died that day everyone in that house who was supposed to protect him let him down. How much safer would he be with people he has no choice but to fully rely on?…to keep him and his secret safe? That’s the only thing that I would find very worrying because I’m not even sure he’d know

People are a force sometimes good sometimes bad usually bad with agendas thats my take on it

how to keep people

People make the world go round ~but in some cases they can make ya head spin lol

especially females out of his pockets to the point of destruction because according to him in LWMJ his house was full of them at Neverland and you know he got used to all the throngs of female attention from fans (and who’s not one) and because women are drawn to him like ants to a gumdrop and he was used to “people-pleasing” as in, “give the people what they want”

i so get this .

and when I think of how conniving a heartless low-life seductress can be with men they plot against it makes me shiver.

I get this. exactly. i'm giving short answers because i realy bloody get it . i'm like - yep yep yep.

Don’t mind me I’m just OLD and believe I’ve seen it ALL…

That's fine by me lol i like OLD i too am it.

and also, I had a really special, super kind, super good looking brother who women were crazy about

Mm understood. i get it. i grew up around that type of energy too , Women throwing themselves at ya family member especially if they were in any type of music game - It always brought the snakes ladys out

and I always worried for him as he too was attracted (really loved) witches

I am sorry. Truly am. it hurts . i really get this type of anxiety & pain.

As I recall he didn’t even buy his own under clothes *sigh* I hope that changed and that he grew out of being “babied”

Well i'm sorry People can change. i hope it has changed for him.

Would he be able to buy a Visa gift card, get a cell phone, summon an Uber (can you do that with a gift card? Can’t you buy them without I.D.?)

So many factors to actually consider here. Shoot, well Witness protection first n foremost comes to mind. Everything comes to mind
Can we ? mmm ...I actually don't know that answer SoS. so googled and no, unfortunately ID is now required.passport/ photo etc ....Bugger , It is a red tape world these days. The world is firmly wrapped around that red tape these days. Just going to the shop to get a pint of milk is like fort knox . i got stuck in the door the other day in my local stop because it is so controlled , so it's not like the 1990s anymore thats for sure - like "Let me out! i only come here to buy milk !" for goodness sake LOL

to the airport and then to my house ahahaha ok I feel better.

Well yeah it lightens the mood . since the subject is ocean deep. It is quite triggering cause the whole what if reminds me of my friend and the conversations we used to have.

Guess I just needed a good chuckle.

Good! We got to keep laughing here i think lol ....because the whole thing is so complex ...it can drown my senses.

but yes the thought of it all makes me nervous for him tbh.

Well it is a huge risk yeah i i'm so sorry that you feel that horrible worry feeling.

I seem to recall pretty much all the Jackson siblings saying the same thing when it first happened: “it’s gonna all come out” and so in the meantime these many years later,

I do remember those words.

we wait in the only way MJ fans know how….

We do wait. Yeah we/most of us are patient people. I would feel that he taught me the word wait , -patience , and to of course, be open minded.

by being all in his binness…investigative and nosey knowing nothing about it all in real life lol.

and that is the thing here , my conflict with myself - should i stand up , or stood i shut my mouth and just thank him for doing his job . What is a girl to do here? I feel like ..i'm doing something though to just participate in this thread. It feels okay to do so. [i go by feel ]

If “they” (whoever makes up the “they” committee) didn’t want us to do this they should have had a normal memorial a normal funeral and kept all the rediculousness out of the public eye. No disrespect intended just being actual. I can also see how it could possibly put him in extremely uncomfortable situations because everyone he trusts has every reason to be extremely jealous of him, after the fact. The Musical..the One show, the record sales, the legacy…

that makes me in pain for him just reading this ...It's true well... he could'nt trust much. proof evidence of how people were whenhe was with us all , no bugger can trust in that game can they , Just my littkle stupid bit taste of not even 'fame' it was more so pressure i unloaded onto myself for some god knows, stupid reason -

for running a no profit fan page on instagram for the *delete* and i killed my 'page character' only after two years - screen name was never to be seen again , *name changed* died ,mate , *delete* bloody ran out of *delete* like the bloody wind *deleted* did ! *delete* hated the thing/red tape /danger *delete* experienced, So, i guess *delete* can only ever compare an inch of that pressure *delete* tasted, i cannot even imagine what you just mentioned here though ...how these factors , especially when money is involved. and everyone want a bit of that. and you and what you might have for them every. single. day.

if he’s alive at this point he might would need some good righteous folks’ prayers.

If he is out there he has got my prayers 100 percent unconditional.

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/461619030525645307/

I mean it.
meant it then, and mean it now.

Peek-A-Boo who are you

This talk is refreshing, TY for it. makes me feel a glow inside. Glimmer of hope.. he taught us that too. Hope. To hope , wish and dream.. Gives the poem ~from DTD I Searched for My star a brand whole new meaning [made me start thinking things again , i am silly like that]
*says through tears*
I still have that star wrapped in the scarf of wonder, and it's forever hidden in my drawer of innocence, I still have it all. i Do.
. but i don't have the heart to tear seven sisters apart.I had better leave the Dog Star alone too.

But then another day, such as today~all gleamy eyed cos SoS gives me hope ~ i think ..."Well, I found the map m. I still have it. I'm down. i wanna play. u betcha!!"

Have a lovely day sos take care of yourself

 

[wendijane]

@SoS do you think he would ever be online with us like before in 2008 ??? would he dare dear god i want the LITD days to come back [ no agenda u understand i wouldn't ever ever wanna jump his bones, I don't have 2 prove this cause you know what i was like in that thread right lol [Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 4 the good ole times!]

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/95208979614567183/

This page is on the front page i just logged out and in again to make sure, and it shows up --- non members/ public can view it - should we ask to have this thread moved into a private section maybe ? because i think it should only be for mjjc members ? what do you guys think ?

 

[SoS]

@SoS do you think he would ever be online with us like before in 2008 ??? would he dare dear god i want the LITD days to come back [ no agenda u understand i wouldn't ever ever wanna jump his bones, I don't have 2 prove this cause you know what i was like in that thread right lol [Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 4 the good ole times!]

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/95208979614567183/

This page is on the front page i just logged out and in again to make sure, and it shows up --- non members/ public can view it - should we ask to have this thread moved into a private section maybe ? because i think it should only be for mjjc members ? what do you guys think ?

I agree completely. Is there a way that can be done?

That would be great if it’s possible because I don’t really need to share with the world the things I’ve observed that’s concerning to me but I do want to share with this group just on general principle.

I appreciate everyone’s feedback to my long rant of sorts.

I will address it all when I get back in here later today.

 

[wendijane]

@Hiker @Gaz @Beano Wild mods is it possible to perhaps move this to a section as quick as possible where it is not made public viewing please it looks too much like a target as we are sharing things here which are personal to us that's all.

 

[SoS]

Wow. I appreciate you all diving so deep.

For now I need to clarify what I meant by a few things.

I do hope we can get these pages into a private thread.

Ok. About this:

 

[SoS]

why would you think he's not doing anything or creating anything? It's lonely I bet, but that doesn't mean he has to be bored out of his mind.

I realize he’s probably in a creative mode in general since it seems that’s how he’s wired however, this is all in how I’m seeing this whole thing trying to put myself in his situation.

I didn’t intend to imply he’s somewhere catatonic probably just blankly staring out into space day and night, no. I meant no record contract to fulfill no concert schedule to prepare for etc

If he’s got trust issues in general and is stuck with a few “regular” folks ie., “handlers” of various sorts of other “regular” folks, this can be mind numbing for a unique genius. I hope that makes more sense.

 

[SoS]

I doubt he'd be fighting off jealous so-called friends because I highly doubt more than 10-12 people even know about it.

I think 10 or 12 people he can’t trust is too many. By “jealous” what I mean is just the position he’s in. 1. It would mean he’s the boss of them all, however many of them they are, = (power over them) he would be the one paying them all = (control of their money) and the volume of his record sales could have money chasing types pretty bothered considering their job is to devote their whole life to “handling” him. Not to mention any of the folks in his life who feel a strong sense of entitlement as if they own him.

Funny you should post WYBT because that’s just the song I was thinking of when I wrote the post.

“Everyone’s taking control of me…seems like the world has a role for me..I’m so confused…”. Yes I believe people take advantage of his even feeling that way. And he wrote that song BEFORE 1993.

I hope it clarifies what I meant by my projecting this. Not saying it’s so (obviously) it’s just kinda bothersome to me that he has to function in such a much smaller world of “regular” folks and not the social reinforcement he’d normally receive from fellow creatifs…if this makes more sense

 

[SoS]

His so called friends and even his family want a piece of him, he's their ATM. But I am sure he knows that. It is known everyone in his life is heavily tested and screened.

Exactly. Re bolded. Yes I’m sure he’s felt like an ATM a long time. “…they eat off you [like] you’re a vegetable..”

 

[SoS]

I think you might underestimate his so-called "street smartness". We know nearly nothing about his day-to-day life. We know only what we heard in the media or the tiny bits he shared himself. He was known to go out in public in disguise and to study other people. As much as I doubt that he ever really could understand how life is for us 'normal people', I do believe he knows way more than people realize. As for common sense, I don't see why he wouldn't have much of that. You don't become a billionaire before the age of 30 if you don't have common sense,

Ok what I meant by “street smarts”:

Please don’t think I’m saying he got no sense here because I know he’s the opposite and in fact supremely strategic. No I’m not suggesting that.

All I mean is he’s been in the habit of having an uncommon degree of obligation to “please” his fans, certain family, his “handlers” (lawyers, managers, etc.) and as Gladys Knight said, he spent his life hearing them constantly telling him what he can’t do unlike common folks who spend their lives making their own choices, so no his sense (sensibilities) are not going to be of a common nature. MJ is used to flying at a higher altitude than most. This is what I mean by “common” sense. It was always the school teacher with the highest I.Q. the slick students would “try” the most for some strange reason.

Now, where street smarts come into play here is with the potential of “regular” people trying to take advantage of the good nature of this man, ie they do great things to support him (presumably why he likes working with them) and turn around and tell him what he needs that “they” would be happy to provide. It worked out for him with, “you need to be a dad” but by the same woman who broke down and lamented her role in keeping him addicted. I don’t think she was acting. That’s what I meant and didn’t mean to make it sound like I’m saying he didn’t have sense enough to come in from rain, not at all.
Mods so sorry I don’t know how to do quotes in one strand.

 

[SoS]

@SoS do you think he would ever be online with us like before in 2008 ??? would he dare dear god i want the LITD days to come back [ no agenda u understand i wouldn't ever ever wanna jump his bones, I don't have 2 prove this cause you know what i was like in that thread right lol [Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 4 the good ole times!]

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/95208979614567183/

This page is on the front page i just logged out and in again to make sure, and it shows up --- non members/ public can view it - should we ask to have this thread moved into a private section maybe ? because i think it should only be for mjjc members ? what do you guys think ?

 

[SoS]

@Wendyjane I would love to wait to respond until this page is moved to private at least as private as our fun thread was because i don't think the public would understand maybe we can turn it into a private blog?

 

[SoS]

I believe that comes from Pearl, who thought she had to buy him T-shirts because apparently Michael the hoarder who bought everything on Amazon twice can't figure out how to buy clothes. LOL!! If there is one thing I am 10000000% sure of is that the man knows how to buy shit.

Not Pearl, although I no longer recall exactly...maybe a maid or body guard or something like that.
Point being, I'm referrring to his lifestyle as he knew it, consisted of other people handling his personal business that he couldn't just randomly do freely, and maybe the firings of certainn ppl, preventing him from having to face the world himself apart from whatever he wanted to put energy toward. Knowing how to buy something is different from navigating the world in order to be able to do it on the fly. I think its a testament to how much we take for granted.