The Impact of MJ's Musical Decisions on His Career and Popularity

[MAQ]

Much different in the UK and Ireland- it was Oasis, Blur, Spice Girls, East 17 and the like. But MJ is ridiculously never mentioned really on any of those programs about the 90's I see

I think they intentionally do that. Idk, none of the lists mention HIStory AT ALL. How the eff could someone forget the promotion it received. And the HWT and DWT. Stuff like that angers me.
How can you forget such huge achievements?

 

[analogue]

I think they intentionally do that. Idk, none of the lists mention HIStory AT ALL. How the eff could someone forget the promotion it received. And the HWT and DWT. Stuff like that angers me.
How can you forget such huge achievements?

Those lists don't even mention Earth song, and that was his most successful single in the UK.

 

[visionwalker]

Dangerous outsold Bad overall by 1 million records or so. In fact it sold twice as fast. 7 million copies in the US in 2 months. It was going to come very close to Thriller I think.

Wikipedia says Bad sold 45 million worldwide and Dangerous sold 30 million worldwide. RIAA.com says Bad is 9x platinum in the US and Dangerous is 7x platinum in the US. How did Dangerous outsell Bad?

Dangerous's record sales was hindered by two things; Nevermind and the allegations.

I think the biggest factor, which I haven't really seen mentioned in this thread, is that the singles didn't connect with the public the way the singles did for Thriller and Bad. At the end of the day, Thriller and Bad each had several giant hits that are considered all time classics among the general public. Black and White was the only song on Dangerous that broke through on that level.

So of course the albums with more huge all time classic hits are going to sell more copies.

 

[innuendo141]

Wasn't Euro dance really big in the UK in the 90's? Growing up during that time I remember hearing that a lot

Yeah, I had that typed in my original post. Things like 2unlimited were the reason MJ released the BOTDF mixes in Europe I suppose. MJ's mixes are the only ones of that music I could stand.

 

[MAQ]

Wikipedia says Bad sold 45 million worldwide and Dangerous sold 30 million worldwide. RIAA.com says Bad is 9x platinum in the US and Dangerous is 7x platinum in the US. How did Dangerous outsell Bad?




I think the biggest factor, which I haven't really seen mentioned in this thread, is that the singles didn't connect with the public the way the singles did for Thriller and Bad. At the end of the day, Thriller and Bad each had several giant hits that are considered all time classics among the general public. Black and White was the only song on Dangerous that broke through on that level.
So of course the albums with more huge all time classic hits are going to sell more copies.

Wikipedia also says that Elvis Presley sold more than 500 million records which is not true at all. Anyway, that's a huge estimate - too huge - as Thriller itself has only around 50 million certified sold copies. And Bad has around 25 million certified copies.

 

[HIStory]

Exactly, the top seller of the 2000's was a rapstar - Eminem. Although I don't like the direction rap is going in now.. It's too... flashy now.

I don't really like hip-hop, except for a couple of tracks, typically in the early 90s. But it's proven to be more presistent and influential than grunge.

 

[innuendo141]

I don't really like hip-hop, except for a couple of tracks, typically in the early 90s. But it's proven to be more presistent and influential than grunge.

I'm the same. I like bits and bobs of hip-hop, but yeah, grunge died out. It looked like it could have made a comeback with Creed and Mudvayne (I think). Thankfully it was shortlived.

 

[visionwalker]

Wikipedia also says that Elvis Presley sold more than 500 million records which is not true at all. Anyway, that's a huge estimate - too huge - as Thriller itself has only around 50 million certified sold copies. And Bad has around 25 million certified copies.

I listed both worldwide estimates (Wikipedia) and US certifications (RIAA). Both have Bad outselling Dangerous. The person I was responding to claimed that Dangerous had outsold Bad. Is that true according to your figures?

 

[Gatesy2006]

Much different in the UK and Ireland- it was Oasis, Blur, Spice Girls, East 17 and the like. But MJ is ridiculously never mentioned really on any of those programs about the 90's I see

I feel it's because they came to prominence in the '90s, like if you see any programs about the '80s MJ is always mentioned even though he had been in the J5 and had huge success in the '70s. The '80s is viewed as his decade. That applies to the boy/girl groups of the '90s, even if most of them were talentless hacks.

 

[HIStoric]

I feel it's because they came to prominence in the '90s, like if you see any programs about the '80s MJ is always mentioned even though he had been in the J5 and had huge success in the '70s. The '80s is viewed as his decade. That applies to the boy/girl groups of the '90s, even if most of them were talentless hacks.

Yeah, I think it's this tbh.

 

[MAQ]

I listed both worldwide estimates (Wikipedia) and US certifications (RIAA). Both have Bad outselling Dangerous. The person I was responding to claimed that Dangerous had outsold Bad. Is that true according to your figures?

Off the Wall is certified 8 or 9×Plat according to RIAA. It sold 20 million copies worldwide. HIStory is certified 7×Plat in US (7 million units), it has sold more than 40 million units worldwide (20 million copies). You can not judge based on RIAA certification or Wikipedia alone. Now tbh no one knows if Dangerous outsold Bad officially - it's just an estimation. But there are many territories in which Dangerous officially DID sell better than Bad. But then there are many territories in which Bad did better. And there are many official sites which claim that Dangerous outsold Bad. But one thing is absolutely certain and that is that Dangerous was a much faster selling album - that's stated by Wikipedia itself. And so it had the potential to be another Thriller. It started out slow like Thriller but got a really good momentum and sold 7 million records in just 2 months. Something which Bad accomplished in 4.

 

[Funkystrong]

Hey BBD...
As Psychoniff posted above there are many and varied ways to look at MJ's legacy and his career.
Yes thriller was undeniable but the commercial success of that album doesn't define him.
Nothing was ever going to out sell it as has been proven since.
It is an historically important album but I am not one who judges MJ by it.
If someone asked my what MJ should I listen to first or what album best defines him I would say Dangerous. Yes History has four absolutely incredible songs on it and some other great ones but Dangerous to me is the album that best summarizes MJ's greatness.
Musically eclectic, Lyrically powerful, Sonically incredible and it combined the funkiness and energy of MJ's earlier work with the more introspective and outspoken political artist he became during the 90's.
I still think to this day it is the greatest album I have ever heard.

Off the Wall is certified 8 or 9×Plat according to RIAA. It sold 20 million copies worldwide. HIStory is certified 7×Plat in US (7 million units), it has sold more than 40 million units worldwide (20 million copies). You can not judge based on RIAA certification or Wikipedia alone. Now tbh no one knows if Dangerous outsold Bad officially - it's just an estimation. But there are many territories in which Dangerous officially DID sell better than Bad. But then there are many territories in which Bad did better. And there are many official sites which claim that Dangerous outsold Bad. But one thing is absolutely certain and that is that Dangerous was a much faster selling album - that's stated by Wikipedia itself. And so it had the potential to be another Thriller. It started out slow like Thriller but got a really good momentum and sold 7 million records in just 2 months. Something which Bad accomplished in 4.

Yer, and then dropped off pretty swiftly. You're crazy to think it would have outsold Thriller.

 

[KOPV]

Dangerous DID outsell Bad at on point and held that for a long time.. Since they were always neck and neck it is very believable that Bad surpassed Dangerous after the fact though. Bad has had the remasterd version with special songs, BAD 25 release, and decent promotion surrounding that.. That would have boosted Bad sales in recent history. Dangerous has not gotten that attention recently.

 

[MAQ]

Yer, and then dropped off pretty swiftly. You're crazy to think it would have outsold Thriller.

I said that it would've reached 38-40 million records sold had the allegations not surfaced. US was never his stronghold after Thriller.

 

[Funkystrong]

I said that it would've reached 38-40 million records sold had the allegations not surfaced. US was never his stronghold after Thriller.

So what are you saying? That it would outsold Thriller internationally?

 

[KOPV]

We need o remember the threat is asking about The Impact o MJ's Musical Decisions His Career and Popularity.. Not what album sold more.. Sales of an album is not the sole source of success.. Time, generations change in sales depending on whats going on in the world.. Popularity is measured on things far beyond what an album is selling..

Example: Jay Z if more successful now than ever and his music sales?? um no!

Michaels decisions AFTER Thriller raised his popularity and financial success. Simple... if you were to fly to Tunisia I 1984 very few people would have known about Michael Jackson... You go in Oct 7th 1996 - you can't buy tickets to a concert because of a sold out stadium of people from Tunisia and surrounding countries packed in.. That's popularity growing!!

Many people that moved to the United States in the late 80s learned about MJ for the first time.. By the time I moved to Libyain 1990 he was a new thing.. and by the mid 90's everyone knew him..

SUCCESS!

Beetles catalogue purchased in 1984 48 million worth.. It rose far beyond that post Thriller era and in 1995 the merger was financial success..

Basically what I'm saying is Michael was known more on a global scale post Thriller and made more money within that next decade..

 

[Funkystrong]

We need o remember the threat is asking about The Impact o MJ's Musical Decisions His Career and Popularity.. Not what album sold more.. Sales of an album is not the sole source of success.. Time, generations change in sales depending on whats going on in the world.. Popularity is measured on things far beyond what an album is selling..

Example: Jay Z if more successful now than ever and his music sales?? um no!

Michaels decisions AFTER Thriller raised his popularity and financial success. Simple... if you were to fly to Tunisia I 1984 very few people would have known about Michael Jackson... You go in Oct 7th 1996 - you can't buy tickets to a concert because of a sold out stadium of people from Tunisia and surrounding countries packed in.. That's popularity growing!!

Many people that moved to the United States in the late 80s learned about MJ for the first time.. By the time I moved to Libyain 1990 he was a new thing.. and by the mid 90's everyone knew him..

SUCCESS!

Beetles catalogue purchased in 1984 48 million worth.. It rose far beyond that post Thriller era and in 1995 the merger was financial success..

Basically what I'm saying is Michael was known more on a global scale post Thriller and made more money within that next decade..

Why is that, what was it about the Thriller era that people in Libya were not getting? Was it because he was.......

 

[KOPV]

Why is that, what was it about the Thriller era that people in Libya were not getting? Was it because he was.......

Well many things.. of course his race at the time effected things... Also, back then it took longer to hear what's going on in other places.. Places like Libya and several other countries did not have the same TV and radio as us in the U.S... for example when I moved to Libya we had 2 channels. a news channel and a channel for sitcoms and whatever else came on.. Also many religious countries did not play western music very much. I'd hear nothing but Arabic music on the radio for example.. The only American songs I remember hearing on TV were "I Feel Good" by James Brown which was on an Arabic commercial and one time they were having a competition of voters who's better Prince or Michael, they played JAM video and I forget which Prince video..

I do remember always going to music stands looking for MJ tapes which someetimesss I could find them. Usually the BAD tape, and for my bday my dad took me to a store with bootleg VHS tapes and they had an MJ collection... Which I picked the one with the coolest cover.That's the only way I was introduced to new MJ music at the time..

Many countries are (and were much more) secluded from the outside world.. It's not like United States, Canada, or European countries..

Back then what people knew and/or thought of the U.S was George Bush, Hollywood = movies, New York = Big City, Christians live in America, America doest like arabs, they speakenglish, people with yellow (blonde) hair live there, there are nude beaches and pornography, and Michael Jackson is a big singer dancer.

outside of that, had no idea what the United States was like..

 

[MAQ]

So what are you saying? That it would outsold Thriller internationally?

It would've at least come much closer.

 

[MAQ]

Well many things.. of course his race at the time effected things... Also, back then it took longer to hear what's going on in other places.. Places like Libya and several other countries did not have the same TV and radio as us in the U.S... for example when I moved to Libya we had 2 channels. a news channel and a channel for sitcoms and whatever else came on.. Also many religious countries did not play western music very much. I'd hear nothing but Arabic music on the radio for example.. The only American songs I remember hearing on TV were "I Feel Good" by James Brown which was on an Arabic commercial and one time they were having a competition of voters who's better Prince or Michael, they played JAM video and I forget which Prince video..

I do remember always going to music stands looking for MJ tapes which someetimesss I could find them. Usually the BAD tape, and for my bday my dad took me to a store with bootleg VHS tapes and they had an MJ collection... Which I picked the one with the coolest cover.That's the only way I was introduced to new MJ music at the time..

Many countries are (and were much more) secluded from the outside world.. It's not like United States, Canada, or European countries..

Back then what people knew and/or thought of the U.S was George Bush, Hollywood = movies, New York = Big City, Christians live in America, America doest like arabs, they speakenglish, people with yellow (blonde) hair live there, there are nude beaches and pornography, and Michael Jackson is a big singer dancer.

outside of that, had no idea what the United States was like..

I agree. Internationally, MJ had various peaks throughout his career. For example his HWT was the most successful tour he's been on. TDCAU, BotDF and Earth Song were huge hits.

It should also be noted that if MJ had the American support he had back in the early 80's/late 70's, HIStory would've sold a lot more. Off the Wall has almost reached diamond status in the US while HIStory - which has the same worldwide sales - didn't even sell 4 million copies. Add around 6-7 million US sales to HIStory and it would've sold 27-28 million records! Which is a huge huge achievement for a double album (20-21 million albums is still a big achievement )

 

[Funkystrong]

Well many things.. of course his race at the time effected things... Also, back then it took longer to hear what's going on in other places.. Places like Libya and several other countries did not have the same TV and radio as us in the U.S... for example when I moved to Libya we had 2 channels. a news channel and a channel for sitcoms and whatever else came on.. Also many religious countries did not play western music very much. I'd hear nothing but Arabic music on the radio for example.. The only American songs I remember hearing on TV were "I Feel Good" by James Brown which was on an Arabic commercial and one time they were having a competition of voters who's better Prince or Michael, they played JAM video and I forget which Prince video..

I do remember always going to music stands looking for MJ tapes which someetimesss I could find them. Usually the BAD tape, and for my bday my dad took me to a store with bootleg VHS tapes and they had an MJ collection... Which I picked the one with the coolest cover.That's the only way I was introduced to new MJ music at the time..

Many countries are (and were much more) secluded from the outside world.. It's not like United States, Canada, or European countries..

Back then what people knew and/or thought of the U.S was George Bush, Hollywood = movies, New York = Big City, Christians live in America, America doest like arabs, they speakenglish, people with yellow (blonde) hair live there, there are nude beaches and pornography, and Michael Jackson is a big singer dancer.

outside of that, had no idea what the United States was like..

REALLY? Damm! But please elaborate on that if you will.

 

[MAQ]

REALLY? Damm! But please elaborate on that if you will.

Lol he probably didn't mean to sound like Mj changed his race or anything. I think he's saying that many critics and people didn't like a black artist doing better than most white artists, so they tried to ridicule him and in a lot of areas that caused a gradual decrease in sales. And that is true!

 

[Bringing Brighter Days]

Off the Wall is certified 8 or 9×Plat according to RIAA. It sold 20 million copies worldwide. HIStory is certified 7×Plat in US (7 million units), it has sold more than 40 million units worldwide (20 million copies). You can not judge based on RIAA certification or Wikipedia alone. Now tbh no one knows if Dangerous outsold Bad officially - it's just an estimation. But there are many territories in which Dangerous officially DID sell better than Bad. But then there are many territories in which Bad did better. And there are many official sites which claim that Dangerous outsold Bad. But one thing is absolutely certain and that is that Dangerous was a much faster selling album - that's stated by Wikipedia itself. And so it had the potential to be another Thriller. It started out slow like Thriller but got a really good momentum and sold 7 million records in just 2 months. Something which Bad accomplished in 4.

Bad sold 16 million copies worldwide in its first 2 months of release

 

[KOPV]

Michael being a black artist in the 80's effected his career.. We all know that 80's still had a lot of race issues. MTV didn't want to play Michaels videos because of his race.. That goes the same with a lot of things regarding how things were back then.. Radio play, not on every station (a frequent) the white artist could be on.. publicity was different.. There was a lot o physiological warfare "white America" did towards black celebrities.. They were not ready to have a black man be THE leading heart throb.. Michael had to force it.

Back then they would limit the exposer he would get, try to word things to lower his actual success in the public eye.. etc.

Basically it was a more racist time!

 

[MAQ]

Bad sold 16 million copies worldwide in its first 2 months of release

I was talking about US sales . Plus do you know that Dangerous shipped 14 million copies ww within its first 37 days? Bet ya didn't.