The Impact of MJ's Musical Decisions on His Career and Popularity

Psychoniff, I dont get you man. Why read so much into me saying its not my favourite album? Thriller is not my favourite album because I prefer a different one. Simple.

While you may consider Thriller to be "better overall than anything that came after" I respect your opinion but will disagree.

What I don't get about you millennial MJ fans is you are heavily critical of Off The Wall and Thriller getting love but Dangerous and HiStory getting no love. But understand if you were a Boomer or Gen Xer you would and lived through the changing music scene. You would have understood it better. Note: I'm a Millennial.
 
Last edited:
Heavily critical??!!!! Point out one post please where I have been heavily critical of either album. You can't.

And where have you ever even seen me knock either OTW or Thriller? Because I prefer other albums? Psychoniff, grow up.

I do not like the generalisations you come out with. Regardless of what "changing music scene" I lived through, I can damn well assure you that I have a firmer grasp on reality than you do judging from your below post.

So True, but you have to understand that White America was done with him because he became more like them in terms of his looks, White Americans saw him as a kind of 'freak' from the Motown 25 performances. They never saw him as one of their own, but like the black minstrels before him, just some kind of 'freak' show to be entertained by. They liked him like that, because for them, he was a talented and skilled artist with freakish abilities, but still only a black talented 'freak' at that. Once his skin started looking more like White america, they became uncomfortable that a 'black freak' could morph into a 'white freak' to remind White america that freaks are freaks regardless of skin colour. His changing looks did not sit well with Black americans because unlike many bandwagon White Americans during the thriller era, many Black Americans from the Jackson 5 era worshipped mike as a virtual part of their family. When he got whiter and his face became more european looking that was a sign in Black America's eyes that he was selling out. But ultimately, Black America still supported and respected mike regardless, through all the trials and tribulations they unlike much of White America stuck with him until the end. Most of the support mike got from whites were from outsiders and non-american whites. Mainstream america simply threw him under the bus.

I really don't think you realise how offensive this post is
 
What I don't get about you MJ fans is you are heavily critical of Off The Wall and Thriller getting love but Dangerous and HiStory getting no love. But understand if you were a Boomer or Gen Xer you would and lived through the changing music scene. You would understand it better.

No one here is heavily critical of Off The Wall and Thriller. I've never heard a bad thing said about either of those albums. And HIStory gets plenty of love here.

Most people here love Off The Wall, Thriller, BAD, Dangerous, HIStory and Blood On The Dance Floor. The only album that gets mixed opinions here is Invincible
 
Heavily critical??!!!! Point out one post please where I have been heavily critical of either album. You can't.

And where have you ever even seen me knock either OTW or Thriller? Because I prefer other albums? Psychoniff, grow up.

I do not like the generalisations you come out with. Regardless of what "changing music scene" I lived through, I can damn well assure you that I have a firmer grasp on reality than you do judging from your below post.



I really don't think you realise how offensive this post is

it's a shame though. But Joe Vogel who wrote a brilliant book on MJ's artistry said the same thing that he loss support from White Americas as he became whiter.
 
No one here is heavily critical of Off The Wall and Thriller. I've never heard a bad thing said about either of those albums. And HIStory gets plenty of love here.

Most people here love Off The Wall, Thriller, BAD, Dangerous, HIStory and Blood On The Dance Floor. The only album that gets mixed opinions here is Invincible

Both Blood One The Dancefloor and Invincible were received with mixed reviews. OTW, Thriller, and BaDangerous all were critcal acclaimed. HiStory on the other hand only received mostly positive reviews because of the first disc.
 
Both Blood One The Dancefloor and Invincible were received with mixed reviews. OTW, Thriller, and BaDangerous all were critcal acclaimed. HiStory on the other hand only received mostly positive reviews because of the first disc.

I wasn't talking about reviews from the media. I was talking about people's opinions on this forum

And I never pay attention to what critics have to say. I'll listen to the albums and make up my own mind
 
^^^ I think, just to be fair, Thriller should just be left out when looking at Michael's album sales. You shouldn't compare any of his albums to Thriller (in terms of sales) because what happened with that album was freakish indeed.. it wasn't just the music, it was everything coming together at the exact right time that made the album explode the way it did. It's completely unrealistic to think he would've just come out with another Thriller every couple of years had he just stuck to his 'roots' (which imo he did, but okay..). And if you take out Thriller, his sales are pretty consistent, and only drop after the allegations.

Exactly my point. When you take Thriller out of the picture MJ had a pretty consistent support/sales even in the US: OTW 8 million, Bad 9 million, Dangerous 7 million in the US - that over a period of 12 years. I am not going to talk about after the allegations, because that was a game changer as no one comes away from such allegations with his popularity being unaffected. But until then I'd say his popularity was pretty consistent.

I also think BBD's argument that he should have continued to sell Thriller amounts and that he should have stuck strictly to his R&B roots with no attempts to crossover is somewhat contradictory. Thriller was the ultimate crossover album, it wasn't a pure R&B album. It was also the ultimate crossover phenomenon. Thriller wasn't an album that was only bought by MJ's "core, R&B audience" - it was a crossover success. And THAT is exactly why it sold so well, among others!

Thriller was both a blessing and a curse. A blessing because it made Michael the mega superstar he is today, and a curse because lots of people couldn't get passed that album and wouldn't give anything else he did a fair chance. Whatever he did after Thriller a lot of people's reactions were ''It's going to suck because it's not Thriller''

It's sad when even some of his own fans do that.

And like Innuendo said earlier just because an artist manages to have a big seller in one album it does not mean it's a guarantee for all of their subsequent albums to sell similar amounts. Actually it rarely happens. There are artists who after a big selling successful album stick to the same formula, same style and still do not sell as many copies of the next album. And there are artists with the opposite strategy who change their style and the formula after a successful mega seller and they still do not achieve similar success. That has many reasons and some of those reasons have nothing to do with the music, but rather with the fact that when an artist becomes that big and popular with one album usually there is a natural backlash after that. People starting to get bored of seeing the success of that artist. People starting to feel it's "uncool" to support a so popular artist that everyone and their mother likes. People thinking a successful album of two-three years ago is yesterday news and now they need to move on to something or someone new and fresh. The media starting the tear down process in the "build you up, tear you down" game. Etc.
 
Why is that important?

Because the point I was making was that many Whites in America (not all) were very hostile towards MJ. Black Americans have consistently been loyal all the way through trials and tribulations. Non-American whites however, COMPLETELY different story.
 
Because the point I was making was that many Whites in America (not all) were very hostile towards MJ. Black Americans have consistently been loyal all the way through trials and tribulations. Non-American whites however, COMPLETELY different story.

Because he did Thriller, or because he didnt do another Thriller???..... Or because he was the Thriller.

Thriller?

Thriller.
 
How is it that first in this discussion it was "black folks dismissed MJ" and now suddenly it's "white folks dismissed MJ"?

How and why in the freakin hell is race an issue here? There are black folks who felt betrayed by Michael's changing appearance and other stuff or just being ignorant, no doubt. Was it so many of them to make it a general statement? NO!
There are white folks with racist untertones or just ignorant overall who sideeyed him, no doubt. Was it so many of them to make it a general statement? NO!

Both "sides" used to love him and hate him, stick with him and abandon him.
 
How is it that first in this discussion it was "black folks dismissed MJ" and now suddenly it's "white folks dismissed MJ"?

How and why in the freakin hell is race an issue here? There are black folks who felt betrayed by Michael's changing appearance and other stuff or just being ignorant, no doubt. Was it so many of them to make it a general statement? NO!
There are white folks with racist untertones or just ignorant overall who sideeyed him, no doubt. Was it so many of them to make it a general statement? NO!

Both "sides" used to love him and hate him, stick with him and abandon him.

Great post. Hopefully this will be the end of that odd argument...
 
There are many fans out of the US and UK ya know... *ducks*
 
Thriller wasn't really his "peak". Maybe in album sales. But Bad had 5 #1s and the BWT was much more successful than the VT. In fact, as I've mentioned before, BoW is the most successful single MJ's ever put out. His HWT still holds the record for the most attended tour. I hate it when people exaggerate the success of Thriller. BoW is as known as Billie Jean here in Pakistan to a lot of people. In fact, more people know his 90s songs which a lot of Americans think flopped. US or UK isn't the only big country ya know.

Moreover, I was playing Who Is It the other day in my car and one of my friends immediately asked me like "Is that MJ?"
I was like "Yeah, how did you know?"
He said that the music felt like his - and MJ never made that kinda music in the 80s.. Just saying lol.
 
In the UK Earth Song was his most successful single

If I remember correctly it was his very first number one single in Germany too.
Back in the day I didn't care much about charts. It was years later that I heard that was his first nr 1 and was like "WTF??? But he was so huge since the eighties!"
Well. seems he wasn't huge enough to make a number one here until the nineties. Just shows you that record sales or chart positions aren't always relatable to how much loved an artist is, since MJ was very loved over here. That's why I was so shocked that this was his first lol
 
If I remember correctly it was his very first number one single in Germany too.
Back in the day I didn't care much about charts. It was years later that I heard that was his first nr 1 and was like "WTF??? But he was so huge since the eighties!"
Well. seems he wasn't huge enough to make a number one here until the nineties. Just shows you that record sales or chart positions aren't always relatable to how much loved an artist is, since MJ was very loved over here. That's why I was so shocked that this was his first lol

Billie Jean didn't got to #1? Really?
 
Worth mentioning too that between Thriller and Bad we had Victory which "only" got to #4. Don't know if its relevant or not to our conversation but we kind of overlooked it, and the Victory tour. Album did OK (number 4) Tour did well. Shows that people werent just buying based on popularity with Michaels name attached.

Then he blew us out of the water with that next album he brought out. whatever it was called :D
 
Worth mentioning too that between Thriller and Bad we had Victory which "only" got to #4. Don't know if its relevant or not to our conversation but we kind of overlooked it, and the Victory tour. Album did OK (number 4) Tour did well. Shows that people werent just buying based on popularity with Michaels name attached.

Then he blew us out of the water with that next album he brought out. whatever it was called :D

But the Victory Tour was in North America. How could you overlook a tour that wasn't in your country?

So what was it based on then? Image?
 
but the victory tour was in north america. How could you overlook a tour that wasn't in your country?

so what was it based on then? Image?

The quality of music contained in the album. Thats why I buy an album.
 
I think a lot of people tend to compartmentalize Michael Jackson's work. The Jacksons are always separated from his core Epic albums, as are his Motown releases and Jackson 5 stuff. It's all the same guy, but there are many listeners who know little of MJ beyond the core albums Off The Wall, Thriller, Bad and Dangerous.

Musically, he was so much more than those 4 and when you put it all together and include the many collaborations he was part of (Dave Mason, 2 charting Diana Ross singles on which his voice is super prominent, Rockwell, McCartney, Stevie Wonder...not to mention singles by Rebbie, Jermaine, Janet, Latoya...) you gain a better understanding of and appreciation for just how prolific, versatile and respected he was.

During the BAD era he seemed to back away from this work ethic and his presence lessened with each release from there on out which I think affected his career. Or maybe it indicated that he was burnt out. The slower pace of his solo output, impossibly high expectations based on previous successes and a lack of tour support in America while his image was drowning in negative press didn't help.

Whatever it was, he created one of the most amazing bodies of work.
 
Back
Top