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The main and the only problem of This Is It tour was lack of "Invincible" content?

SmoothGangsta said:
Lawyers in one of the court cases watched all of the footage and said that they did not see anything that showed MJ in a bad way. It has also been stated that cameras were not kept rolling on the day that he was visibly unwell.
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analogue said:
But wasn't all of This Is It including unseen footage shown at the Conrad Murray trial and nobody saw anything that would indicate Michael's health was failing?
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There are many unseen parts from the 'This Is It' footage which show Michael Jackson very sick and skeletal (such as, certain parts with the red leather jacket at the soundstage, as confirmed by one of Randy Phillips' emails).

Also, according to attorney Brian Panish, many other parts of the footage (in which Michael Jackson looks very sick and skeletal) were taken out from the 2009 film release at Randy Phillips' request.

Some of Michael Jackson's collaborators also testified that there is (unseen) footage where the singer had great difficulty in rehearsing some of his signature dance moves and also that he was under the influence of drugs/medications while rehearsing.
 
mj_frenzy said:
Some of Michael Jackson's collaborators also testified that there is (unseen) footage where the singer had great difficulty in rehearsing some of his signature dance moves and also that he was under the influence of drugs/medications while rehearsing.
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Which collaborators?
 
SmoothGangsta said:
Which collaborators?
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Like, choreographer Travis Payne who testified that he thought that Michael Jackson "was under the influence of something" clearly implying drugs and medications.

Travis Payne also testified that the singer was struggling to prepare for the upcoming shows and he also had asked to use a teleprompter (for the first time in his career) so as to help him remember the lyrics (a sign of his failing mental health, as well).

Travis Payne also testified that Michael Jackson (in the rehearsals) was having trouble learning some of his signature dance moves in the final weeks.

Also, band director Michael Bearden wrote that Michael Jackson (in the rehearsals) was not in shape enough yet to sing his songs live and dance at the same time.

Or, production manager John Bugzee Hougdahl who wrote that he watched Michael Jackson (in the rehearsals) deteriorate in front of his eyes over the last 8 weeks.
 
mj_frenzy said:
lTravis Payne also testified that the singer was struggling to prepare for the upcoming shows and he also had asked to use a teleprompter (for the first time in his career) so as to help him remember the lyrics (a sign of his failing mental health, as well).
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I suppose then that every major artists performing today has severe mental health problems then.
mj_frenzy said:
Travis Payne also testified that Michael Jackson (in the rehearsals) was having trouble learning some of his signature dance moves in the final weeks.
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Quote? But not ripped out of the context preferably, as is often the case with you.
mj_frenzy said:
Or, production manager John Bugzee Hougdahl who wrote that he watched Michael Jackson (in the rehearsals) deteriorate in front of his eyes over the last 8 weeks.
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A peculiar thing to say, considering that as the rehearsals progressed, knowing the chronology, Michael’s performance seemed to get better. The last two days were the most energetic ones by far.
 
mj_frenzy said:
Like, choreographer Travis Payne who testified that he thought that Michael Jackson "was under the influence of something" clearly implying under the influence of drugs/medications.

Travis Payne also testified that the singer was struggling to prepare for the upcoming shows and he also had asked to use a teleprompter (for the first time in his career) so as to help him remember the lyrics (a sign of his failing mental health, as well).

Travis Payne also testified that Michael Jackson (in the rehearsals) was having trouble learning some of his signature dance moves in the final weeks.

Also, band director Michael Bearden wrote that Michael Jackson (in the rehearsals) was not in shape enough yet to sing his songs live and dance at the same time.

Or, production manager John Bugzee Hougdahl who wrote that he watched Michael Jackson (in the rehearsals) deteriorate in front of his eyes over the last 8 weeks.
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Travis was talking about the day in which MJ was visibly unwell I assume? I'm honestly not really interested in debating about what people say they saw etc. You said the footage will not be released because there is footage of him not well. We have lawyers who watched all the available footage and said that they could not see anything that made MJ look visibly unwell.
 
I'll acknowledge I haven't read every post in the thread, but I will add this.

If Michael were not battling his issues with prescription drugs, then, he at age 50 would have been able to perform the shows. Yet, we've learned with his death, unfortunately, that he was not in the condition to pull off the number of shows.

I truly think that had Michael lived for the shows, the MJ that would show up would be similar to the 2001 shows we saw when he was under the influence then.

As a fan, it's sad to know that his life was risked and ultimately loss at the hands of greed when those around him new clear and well he wasn't able to complete the shows.
 
At one of the Prince concert I attended (I think this was around 2000) he refused to play any old hits. I remember that even the hard core fans were a bit put off by that. He stop doing that eventually though (but Prince used to improvise on stage and even the old hits kind of got a new sound to them which was super cool).

I think the same would have happen if MJ would have put anything from Invincible except YRMW in the show. Even me as a loyal fan that bought the CD never really listened to it more than 1-2 times. I went to all of the concerts (Bad, Dangerous, History) and it never got old or repetitive to me. It was just the most amazing experience ever (except maybe the ending of HIstory, that was a bit over the top for my taste)!

I believe TII would have been amazing if there wouldn't have been the drug issue and the toxic people around - also of course less than 50 concerts.
 
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Since this thread has kinda deviated, I had a question: why didn't MJ display any "obvious" insomniac signs? I'm gonna Google and see why, just thought I'd posit here as well.
 
dethorro said:
Quote? But not ripped out of the context preferably, as is often the case with you.
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It comes from Travis Payne's testimony (AEG Live Trial, 2013), when he also testified that Michael Jackson was struggling to prepare for the shows.
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
Since this thread has kinda deviated, I had a question: why didn't MJ display any "obvious" insomniac signs? I'm gonna Google and see why, just thought I'd posit here as well.
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But he did display obvious signs of insomnia, according to testimonies and leaked emails, such as:

- he exhibited paranoia
- he exhibited anxiety
- he had difficulty with balance
- he was talking to himself
- he was hearing voices (like the voice of God)
- he had difficulty in regulating his body temperature
- he had difficulty in remembering his lyrics

Also, his personal nurse Cherilyn Lee testified that the singer was drinking many Red Bulls (the energy drink) due to his tiredness and fatigue brought on by his insomnia.
 
mj_frenzy said:
It comes from Travis Payne's testimony (AEG Live Trial, 2013), when he also testified that Michael Jackson was struggling to prepare for the shows.

But he did display obvious signs of insomnia, according to testimonies and leaked emails, such as:

- he exhibited paranoia
- he exhibited anxiety
- he had difficulty with balance
- he was talking to himself
- he was hearing voices (like the voice of God)
- he had difficulty in regulating his body temperature
- he had difficulty in remembering his lyrics

Also, his personal nurse Cherilyn Lee testified that the singer was drinking many Red Bulls (the energy drink) due to his tiredness and fatigue brought on by his insomnia.
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even though we don't know if this was the demerol/meds or the insomnia...
 
mj_frenzy said:
It comes from Travis Payne's testimony (AEG Live Trial, 2013), when he also testified that Michael Jackson was struggling to prepare for the shows.

But he did display obvious signs of insomnia, according to testimonies and leaked emails, such as:

- he exhibited paranoia
- he exhibited anxiety
- he had difficulty with balance
- he was talking to himself
- he was hearing voices (like the voice of God)
- he had difficulty in regulating his body temperature
- he had difficulty in remembering his lyrics

Also, his personal nurse Cherilyn Lee testified that the singer was drinking many Red Bulls (the energy drink) due to his tiredness and fatigue brought on by his insomnia.
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Most of the points you have made happened on one day only.
 
The lack of Invincible content and new material made TII look like an extension of the HIStory tour.
 
Hot_Street said:
The lack of Invincible content and new material made TII look like an extension of the HIStory tour.
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Dancing on a bed with a sexy pole dancer, doesn't sound like an extension of HIStory at all to me...
 
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the songs were old, very old
I don't care about sexy pool dancers and all these new videos
pure HIStory:
 
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Hot_Street said:
the songs were old, very old
I don't care about sexy pool dancers and all these new videos
pure HIStory:
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Are these LIVE vocals? They sound pretty good tbf.

mj_frenzy said:
Like, choreographer Travis Payne who testified that he thought that Michael Jackson "was under the influence of something" clearly implying drugs and medications.

Travis Payne also testified that the singer was struggling to prepare for the upcoming shows and he also had asked to use a teleprompter (for the first time in his career) so as to help him remember the lyrics (a sign of his failing mental health, as well).

Travis Payne also testified that Michael Jackson (in the rehearsals) was having trouble learning some of his signature dance moves in the final weeks.

Also, band director Michael Bearden wrote that Michael Jackson (in the rehearsals) was not in shape enough yet to sing his songs live and dance at the same time.

Or, production manager John Bugzee Hougdahl who wrote that he watched Michael Jackson (in the rehearsals) deteriorate in front of his eyes over the last 8 weeks.
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I am not sure if that's all true because he still seemed to exhibit a grace of movement that was actually often a step above his backup dancers.
 
Hurley509 said:
I am not sure if that's all true because he still seemed to exhibit a grace of movement that was actually often a step above his backup dancers.
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That is all true.

Kenny Ortega also testified that Michael Jackson was too ill to perform in the days before his death.

Keep in mind also that the 'This Is It' film is a highly edited film, so it misleads viewers about Michael Jackson actual dance abilities at the time.

Michael Jackson was even described as a "basket case" in the leaked AEG Live emails (the term "basket case" means a person who is useless, helpless, and unable to think and act normally).
 
mj_frenzy said:
That is all true.

Kenny Ortega also testified that Michael Jackson was too ill to perform in the days before his death.

Keep in mind also that the 'This Is It' film is a highly edited film, so it misleads viewers about Michael Jackson actual dance abilities at the time.

Michael Jackson was even described as a "basket case" in the leaked AEG Live emails (the term "basket case" means a person who is useless, helpless, and unable to think and act normally).
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I like that you're continuing to use examples from one day to describe MJ's condition throughout the entire rehearsal process. Even after it's been pointed out you're doing it. Also using AEG emails (a group of people who had no respect for MJ at all and called him various things in those emails) as an example just further shows that you'll cite anything as long as it makes you look correct.

Getting really sick of seeing this on here every day and literally nothing being done about it.
 
SmoothGangsta said:
I like that you're continuing to use examples from one day to describe MJ's condition throughout the entire rehearsal process. Even after it's been pointed out you're doing it. Also using AEG emails (a group of people who had no respect for MJ at all and called him various things in those emails) as an example just further shows that you'll cite anything as long as it makes you look correct.

Getting really sick of seeing this on here every day and literally nothing being done about it.
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Whatever keeps the discussion going. As long as he doesn't reclaim any racist words or call MJ a British slang nickname he can share all the bull he wants.
 
It's pretty well established that Michael wasn't very involved or engaged with the preparation until the last few rehearsals. And him acting strange, aloof and out of it wasn't just "one day". I am not sure where you're getting that from. Having read up a lot on the last few days of Michael it seems the only people giving the impression that Michael was full of beans and ready to go are those on AEG side of things for interviews for the This Is It documentary. He seemed to be spending more time having botox injections for demerol fixes rather than actually showing up for rehearsal. Even from what you see in the documentary he seems spacey and not himself. He manages to dance and sing well at times but for all the footage collected there were only brief moments where he was conducting himself with the grace and humility of the Michael Jackson we grew up with. otherwise he seemed to be making vague mumbles and kind of trailing off while chewing gum almost to mask his inability to hold much of a conversation. But yes, there were moments where he did seem in control. And in those moments you see that maybe one day he was going to get his act back together. But he wasn't there yet.
 
Hurley509 said:
It's pretty well established that Michael wasn't very involved or engaged with the preparation until the last few rehearsals. And him acting strange, aloof and out of it wasn't just "one day". I am not sure where you're getting that from. Having read up a lot on the last few days of Michael it seems the only people giving the impression that Michael was full of beans and ready to go are those on AEG side of things for interviews for the This Is It documentary. He seemed to be spending more time having botox injections for demerol fixes rather than actually showing up for rehearsal. Even from what you see in the documentary he seems spacey and not himself. He manages to dance and sing well at times but for all the footage collected there were only brief moments where he was conducting himself with the grace and humility of the Michael Jackson we grew up with. otherwise he seemed to be making vague mumbles and kind of trailing off while chewing gum almost to mask his inability to hold much of a conversation. But yes, there were moments where he did seem in control. And in those moments you see that maybe one day he was going to get his act back together. But he wasn't there yet.
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I'm glad that you know more about how MJ was during the rehearsals than the lawyers who watched all the footage specifically looking for stuff that would make MJ look bad and said there was nothing.

I'm not saying he was amazing the entire time, but this "he was a mess" narrative is just not true in my opinion.

Anyway, I'm gonna exit this conversation now as the point I was originally making was that there's no footage that makes MJ look unwell.
 
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The Estate and Sony may have made a good investment when they purchased 100 hours of rehearsal footage . There is potential to re release This Is It several times. I think potentially the best footage is currently still in the vault.
 
If I'm honest I think given the sharp and at times abrupt editing of This Is It, I think we've seen most, if not all the best footage from the rehearsals.

Watching it recently, (for the first time in years) it struck me how heavily edited the film is. I assume Kenny and the editors tried to cherry pick all the best bits and throw them together. I doubt there's great stuff left in the vault

The Bad and Dangerous Tour rehearsals on the other hand...
 
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