The main and the only problem of This Is It tour was lack of "Invincible" content?

[Nite Line]

I am not sure about this. I thought there were contractual reasons why he couldn't promote the album?

Is that the case? I very much doubt that Michael would be restricted to perform his own songs. If he wanted to, he could have performed You Rock My World, but it appears that he had given up on Invincible by 2002.

 

[bluemoon7]

That’s all well and good, but change it up a bit. Who wants a Jackson 5 medley from MJ? Retire it!

Well, during my youth/as a student got 2 chances to see him live.
One concert was cancelled (in 92) due to his health problems .
So I experienced 1 precious HIStory tour concert.
Not all of us had the resources to see multiple concerts or follow him along his tour itinerary.

So did a want a J5 medley? Hell Yeah!

As far as I am concerned, he could have performed ANY of his songs

 

[mj_frenzy]

One can also watch amateur videos from the 'This Is It' rehearsals in order to realize that Michael Jackson was about to lip-sync a lot during those shows (for example, the 'Beat It' amateur video from those rehearsals in which he lip-syncs).

Also, people close to him stated that for certain slow songs, studio album recordings or pre-recorded new vocals were planned for on stage use during those shows (such as, 'Stranger In Moscow').

 

[Hurley509]

This is not an annoying take, but rather a realistic one.

Michael Jackson was apparently also meant to lip-sync a lot (by relying on studio album recordings, on pre-recorded new vocals, etc).

Note that the singer seemed to have also difficulty in remembering his lines for live singing, and a teleprompter was also planned for the shows which made the whole 'This Is It' situation even more embarrassing for him.

You're conflating the fact that Michael clearly wasn't ready to tour somehow with your assertion he was stuck in the past because he chose to perform bankable hits over unknown songs. Neither clause is relevant to the other. If he were performing the entirety of Invincible start-to-finish he wouldn't suddenly remember his lines and have had the fitness to dance and sing at the same time. It is not uncommon for artists much much younger than Michael was to use pre-recorded vocals on tour. You're talking about a man who was over a decade out of touring, out of shape, on a cocktail of medications and in no place mentally or physically to be touring at that point in time. Michael was forced to tour. He was taken at the lowest point in his life, and his life situation was such that he needed to make money. It's like taking a basketball player 10 years out of retirement and expecting him to be an NBA All Star in a couple of months. It was a huge ask. I am not sure how "embarrassing" it is to not succeed in something that was a huge ask in the first place. Anyone in their right mind would know 50 shows was way too much. 10 was pushing it. You might attribute it to being "stuck in the past" but the man was simply in no physical condition to be touring. The setlist was never the issue, nor was his choice of wig, attire or the choreography.

I think what AEG, Michael and everyone involved should have done is given Michael a much longer lead up to concerts. If I remember right, the concerts were announced in March or so to be performed in July? If that's right that's 3 months. They knew he had a drug problem and that it wasn't going to be a straight forward process, but I also think they made the tour so close so as to make Michael actually do it. Ideally there would have been a 6-8 month lead up. I think Michael should have been more forthcoming with his usage and they hopefully could have found some resolution to ween him off of Propofol. They should have agreed to 10 well spaced shows with the option to add shows as necessary. AEG clearly knew they ran the risk of running him into the ground and they frankly didn't care. Yes, they supplied him a doctor, personal trainer, chef, accomodation but they also made a massive ask of someone that they knew was unlikely from the start. And the fact remains there were only two profitable scenarios for AEG - either Michael did all the concerts, or he did none. Interesting what happened to him when it looked like he wouldn't be able to do all, now isn't it?

Regardless, very unfair to call it embarrassing to Michael. It's like taking someone in a drunken stupor, throwing coins at them and telling them to dance. It's only embarrassing if you lack compassion.

 

[BuffaloBill87]

I have to agree, a man who had not performed consistently in over 10 years and and had quite frankly lost touch with reality was in no shape to perform 50 shows.

Let's be honest, we all wanted this , we were desperate to see him perform and I think it was important that he did do a series of shows, just not 50. 10 spread out shows , 1 show a month would have been ideal.

This was a man who was mentally ill due to some serious trauma in his life. His reputation in tatters and now on the verge of a potential comeback.

The insane amount of pressure put on him to perform was too much.

 

[mj_frenzy]

You're conflating the fact that Michael clearly wasn't ready to tour somehow with your assertion he was stuck in the past because he chose to perform bankable hits over unknown songs. Neither clause is relevant to the other. If he were performing the entirety of Invincible start-to-finish he wouldn't suddenly remember his lines and have had the fitness to dance and sing at the same time. It is not uncommon for artists much much younger than Michael was to use pre-recorded vocals on tour. You're talking about a man who was over a decade out of touring, out of shape, on a cocktail of medications and in no place mentally or physically to be touring at that point in time. Michael was forced to tour. He was taken at the lowest point in his life, and his life situation was such that he needed to make money. It's like taking a basketball player 10 years out of retirement and expecting him to be an NBA All Star in a couple of months. It was a huge ask. I am not sure how "embarrassing" it is to not succeed in something that was a huge ask in the first place. Anyone in their right mind would know 50 shows was way too much. 10 was pushing it. You might attribute it to being "stuck in the past" but the man was simply in no physical condition to be touring. The setlist was never the issue, nor was his choice of wig, attire or the choreography.

I think what AEG, Michael and everyone involved should have done is given Michael a much longer lead up to concerts. If I remember right, the concerts were announced in March or so to be performed in July? If that's right that's 3 months. They knew he had a drug problem and that it wasn't going to be a straight forward process, but I also think they made the tour so close so as to make Michael actually do it. Ideally there would have been a 6-8 month lead up. I think Michael should have been more forthcoming with his usage and they hopefully could have found some resolution to ween him off of Propofol. They should have agreed to 10 well spaced shows with the option to add shows as necessary. AEG clearly knew they ran the risk of running him into the ground and they frankly didn't care. Yes, they supplied him a doctor, personal trainer, chef, accomodation but they also made a massive ask of someone that they knew was unlikely from the start. And the fact remains there were only two profitable scenarios for AEG - either Michael did all the concerts, or he did none. Interesting what happened to him when it looked like he wouldn't be able to do all, now isn't it?

Regardless, very unfair to call it embarrassing to Michael. It's like taking someone in a drunken stupor, throwing coins at them and telling them to dance. It's only embarrassing if you lack compassion.

Michael Jackson kept recycling the basic concept of the 1988 BAD Tour for his later tour career, and he was understandably being criticized for that.

The 'This Is It' residency concerts were a great opportunity for him to present some new things.

For example, why not including 'Whatever Happens' on the 'This Is It' set list and give that song a second opportunity considering that it was planned as the 4th single from his 'Invincible' album?

Also, AEG Live, Michael Jackson, and everyone involved actually gave the singer a much longer lead up to concerts.

Note that the first negotiations for the (10 to 30) concerts started in late 2007/early 2008, so he had enough time to get out of drugs/cocktail of medications, and also to be mentally and physically ready for the concerts.

There were big headlines around that time (late 2007/early 2008) that Michael Jackson planned to take London by storm with a series of O2 arena concerts, but the singer failed emphatically to rise to the occasion.

 

[dam2040]

Michael Jackson kept recycling the basic concept of the 1988 BAD Tour for his later tour career, and he was understandably being criticized for that.

The 'This Is It' residency concerts were a great opportunity for him to present some new things.

For example, why not including 'Whatever Happens' on the 'This Is It' set list and give that song a second opportunity considering that it was planned as the 4th single from his 'Invincible' album?

Also, AEG Live, Michael Jackson, and everyone involved actually gave the singer a much longer lead up to concerts.

Note that the first negotiations for the (10 to 30) concerts started in late 2007/early 2008, so he had enough time to get out of drugs/cocktail of medications, and also to be mentally and physically ready for the concerts.

There were big headlines around that time (late 2007/early 2008) that Michael Jackson planned to take London by storm with a series of O2 arena concerts, but the singer failed emphatically to rise to the occasion.

I've already reported your garbage to the mods, it's high time you were banned from this site.

The 'singer failed emphatically to rise to the occasion'.. NO. His life was taken away from him. He was killed.

It's disgusting this site allows you to continue with this utter garbage, it's so so disrespectful to Michael and it needs to STOP.

 

[Hurley509]

Michael Jackson kept recycling the basic concept of the 1988 BAD Tour for his later tour career, and he was understandably being criticized for that.

The 'This Is It' residency concerts were a great opportunity for him to present some new things.

For example, why not including 'Whatever Happens' on the 'This Is It' set list and give that song a second opportunity considering that it was planned as the 4th single from his 'Invincible' album?

Also, AEG Live, Michael Jackson, and everyone involved actually gave the singer a much longer lead up to concerts.

Note that the first negotiations for the (10 to 30) concerts started in late 2007/early 2008, so he had enough time to get out of drugs/cocktail of medications, and also to be mentally and physically ready for the concerts.

There were big headlines around that time (late 2007/early 2008) that Michael Jackson planned to take London by storm with a series of O2 arena concerts, but the singer failed emphatically to rise to the occasion.

.... umm... no. No Michael flat out rejected the idea of a tour. He was asked in 2007 and said he wasn't interested. He only took the idea up in March of 2009 when it became clear that his only other option was to lose everything. There was no negotiating in 2007 or 8.

I've already reported your garbage to the mods, it's high time you were banned from this site.

The 'singer failed emphatically to rise to the occasion'.. NO. His life was taken away from him. He was killed.

It's disgusting this site allows you to continue with this utter garbage, it's so so disrespectful to Michael and it needs to STOP.

Yeah his takes are always weird. Calling Michael "the singer" as though he were writing an article as opposed to posting on a fan blog. I mean I don't believe we should be totally uncritical of Michael here but his takes make no sense.

And yes, he was killed. How can you rise to an occasion when you're fucking dead?

 

[BuffaloBill87]

Michael wasn't 'killed' he died as a result of involuntary manslaughter.

 

[dam2040]

Michael wasn't 'killed' he died as a result of involuntary manslaughter.

Kill
verb
past tense: killed ; past participle: killed

1. 1.
   cause the death of (a person, animal, or other living thing).
   "her father was killed in a car crash"

 

[filmandmusic]

I personally don’t think Michael ever truly lost touch with reality. I think post 2005 trial he was genuinely surprised he could still draw huge crowds. Everybody got excited, new dates were added and disaster struck.
There were so many other ways to get out of trouble financially and he chose the worst one unfortunately.
I think if the concerts did go through as planned his reputation as a live artists would have been in shatters. I shook my head when they announced 10 concerts, let alone 50. It was absolutely not meant to be.

I would have preferred Michael staying in the studio quietly working on new material at his own pace over this overblown media spectacle and imo like it or not uninspiring concerts.

 

[Hurley509]

I personally don’t think Michael ever truly lost touch with reality. I think post 2005 trial he was genuinely surprised he could still draw huge crowds. Everybody got excited, new dates were added and disaster struck.
There were so many other ways to get out of trouble financially and he chose the worst one unfortunately.
I think if the concerts did go through as planned his reputation as a live artists would have been in shatters. I shook my head when they announced 10 concerts, let alone 50. It was absolutely not meant to be.

I would have preferred Michael staying in the studio quietly working on new material at his own pace over this overblown media spectacle and imo like it or not uninspiring concerts.

Why would has reputation be in shatters? If he were physically fit to do the shows I have no doubt they'd have been amazing.

Also he needed a lot of money quickly. A Michael Jackson album is not a cheap endeavour and who was going to outlay the initial costs, and how much would it sell?

I think in 2009, you could sell a million Michael Jackson tickets on nostalgia alone but I am not confident his album would have sold, say, a million units in the UK. The concerts were the most practical way to get literally hundreds of millions of dollars - such was his dilemma.

-

On the "live singing" note that was made earlier, I just re-watched the rehearsal for Earth Song, sung the night he died. I actually thought it was prerecorded until he chose to deviate with some adlibs. There was absolutely NO problem with the man's voice. His movements also seem quite free, natural and have that grace that only Michael Jackson has. I definitely think there was more left in the tank for Michael. Just a tragedy he died.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1672675754876731395

 

[Hot_Street]

The only thing I was missing before TII was a new album or a new single.
There was only The Collection.
I mean every concert series had an album.

 

[Hot_Street]

Also he needed a lot of money quickly. A Michael Jackson album is not a cheap endeavour and who was going to outlay the initial costs, and how much would it sell?

He had enough unreleased hits in his vault.

 

[Hurley509]

He had enough unreleased hits in his vault.

No, this isn't how albums work. That might work when wacking together a posthumous album for producers to paw over years later, but you can't make a current album and expect it to sell by digging things out of your vault that may or may not be "on trend". To make an album that sells it has to be both current and coherent. You're suggesting a slapped-together production that would have hurt his credibility

 

[Hot_Street]

No, this isn't how albums work. That might work when wacking together a posthumous album for producers to paw over years later, but you can't make a current album and expect it to sell by digging things out of your vault that may or may not be "on trend". To make an album that sells it has to be both current and coherent. You're suggesting a slapped-together production that would have hurt his credibility

Blood was released 6 years later and became a #1 hit.

 

[Hurley509]

Blood was released 6 years later and became a #1 hit.

Okay, firstly, a number one hit where? Definitely not the US. I don't even think in the UK. And while, sure, you may be able to point to a few isolated tracks (ie, Earth Song was originally recorded for Dangerous), you cannot escape the fact that to make a cohesive album, a lot of new material will need to be made.

 

[Hot_Street]

Okay, firstly, a number one hit where? Definitely not the US. I don't even think in the UK. And while, sure, you may be able to point to a few isolated tracks (ie, Earth Song was originally recorded for Dangerous), you cannot escape the fact that to make a cohesive album, a lot of new material will need to be made.

"Blood on the Dance Floor" became a top ten hit in almost all countries in Europe. It peaked at number one in the UK, Denmark, Spain and New Zealand, charting for 11 weeks in the latter two nations.

Blood on the Dance Floor (song) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Hurley509]

Okay, so that isolated song did okay. It's also fair to note that the HIStory tour was on in a lot of those same countries at the time BOTDF released, and thus, it had inherent marketing. Not that the critics are the be all and end all but the song was generally panned for sounding "dated" which is further to my point. And even if Michael reworked old songs, or a few old songs, that is still producers and studio time. The BOTDF album was a remix album and its purpose was to help promote the HIStory tour's second leg. While I think we can appreciate some of the new songs that it spawned the album wasn't meant to be a full-length LP and as such he was able to get away with a slap-together affair. And even then, did he really get away with it? We might champion the fact that BOTDF was the highest selling remix album of all time, but as far as Sony was concerned, the sales were evidence that Michael was no longer their never-ending cashcow. I am not sure the Blood on the Dancefloor album is where Michael should have drawn inspiration from moving forward. And I don't think you can reasonably make the claim that a substantial amount of recording and producing would be needed for basically any Michael Jackson album.

 

[Hot_Street]

You're right, but I guess there was enough material from the Invincible sessions to 2009, to release a current sounding album.

 

[Hurley509]

I am sure some songs would have been reworked but if he wanted a coherent, decent album he would have made it with a unique direction in mind that would have facilitated the need for new music. Michael knew well that a great album needs to have its tracks work together, and slapping too many together just because they happen to "sound current" isn't the way to do that.

Regardless, I think you're forgetting the climate of the time we're talking about. The allegations were fresh in people's minds, and while he was vindicated, there is still a huge swath of the population that felt "uneasy" about Michael Jackson. The music that is in the songbook of our lives will always remain, but I don't think the world at large was hanging on a new Michael Jackson album.

There is also the question of who he would release an album under (sony?) and how much they'd put to promotion. If Invincible is any guide, the ceiling for an MJ album at that time was probably 2-3X platimum in the US and maybe 10-12 mill international. That wasn't going to get him out of the drama he was in.

The reception for an MJ concert, though, was huge. And in some ways, surprisingly so. Despite selling something ridiculous like 750'000 tickets it bares mentioning that the tour couldn't even get a promoter given the drama that surrounded him.

I really see no other way out for Michael. He had to do the tour. Whether 10 concerts or 50, that was the only reasonable lifeline he had. The only way a new Michael Jackson album would sell is if it were AFTER the tour.

 

[Hot_Street]

Regardless, I think you're forgetting the climate of the time we're talking about. The allegations were fresh in people's minds, and while he was vindicated, there is still a huge swath of the population that felt "uneasy" about Michael Jackson. The music that is in the songbook of our lives will always remain, but I don't think the world at large was hanging on a new Michael Jackson album.

True, but HIStory was released at a time, that was way more difficult. There was no trial, no vindication.
That's why I think, Xscape could've been released short after the trial. The lyrics fit:

No matter where I am, I see my face around
They pin lies on my name, then push them town to town
Don't have a place to run, but there's no need to hide
I've got to find a place, but I won't hide away

 

[mj_frenzy]

.... umm... no. No Michael flat out rejected the idea of a tour. He was asked in 2007 and said he wasn't interested. He only took the idea up in March of 2009 when it became clear that his only other option was to lose everything. There was no negotiating in 2007 or 8.

Yeah his takes are always weird. Calling Michael "the singer" as though he were writing an article as opposed to posting on a fan blog. I mean I don't believe we should be totally uncritical of Michael here but his takes make no sense.

And yes, he was killed. How can you rise to an occasion when you're fucking dead?

It was also confirmed by British journalist Simon Cable (in February, 2009) that Michael Jackson had already been in secret talks with 'This Is It' organisers for many months before 2009.

On the "live singing" note that was made earlier, I just re-watched the rehearsal for Earth Song, sung the night he died. I actually thought it was prerecorded until he chose to deviate with some adlibs. There was absolutely NO problem with the man's voice. His movements also seem quite free, natural and have that grace that only Michael Jackson has. I definitely think there was more left in the tank for Michael. Just a tragedy he died.

Keep in mind that (according to court documents) Michael Jackson was being given ephedrine during his very final days of rehearsals.

Ephedrine is a central nervous system stimulant and acts as an energy enhancer.

So, his very final days of rehearsals (when he rehearsed in an energetic way) are rather misleading.

 

[filmandmusic]

@Hurley509

Because I am confident he wouldn’t be able to handle 50 concerts. MSG was already really bad and that was 8 years earlier, a lot happened in those 8 years. This was by far the most exhausting most pressurized way of a come back. What he needed was baby steps but he caused a mania and that put so much expectation and pressure on his shoulder that he collapsed. We’re talking about a man who had lost the confidence in his live voice already in 1992. I’m sorry but to me he sounds mediocre to awful in most concerts in the 90s.
The this is it rehearsals also didn’t strike me as something he really wanted, he looked tired, he put in minimal effort. He wasn’t even involved much in the visual department of the shows. He was going to autopilot it with excessive miming and the critics would have torn it apart.

That’s it, this is my opinion and I haven’t changed it since the day it was announced in 2009.

 

[Mister_Jay_Tee]

@Hurley509

Because I am confident he wouldn’t be able to handle 50 concerts. MSG was already really bad and that was 8 years earlier, a lot happened in those 8 years. This was by far the most exhausting most pressurized way of a come back. What he needed was baby steps but he caused a mania and that put so much expectation and pressure on his shoulder that he collapsed. We’re talking about a man who had lost the confidence in his live voice already in 1992. I’m sorry but to me he sounds mediocre to awful in most concerts in the 90s.
The this is it rehearsals also didn’t strike me as something he really wanted, he looked tired, he put in minimal effort. He wasn’t even involved much in the visual department of the shows. He was going to autopilot it with excessive miming and the critics would have torn it apart.

That’s it, this is my opinion and I haven’t changed it since the day it was announced in 2009.

There's still a huge difference between MSG and TII rehearsals, that's clear to anybody. No comparison.

If he did or didn't mime, who knows, if the critics did or didn't rip it apart, they don't hinge my takes on it. MJ mimed quite a lot, even in his youth, in his prime. It had its place and is not the end all be all.

The show would have changed concerts all together.

 

[filmandmusic]

MJ mimed quite a lot, even in his youth.

That is just not true, not in concerts anyway, not a single second was mimed. TV appearances yes but I don't mind that, it is for promotion.
Anyway it's been discussed so many times and each time I get sucked right in again. So I'm going to leave it here this time lol

 

[Mister_Jay_Tee]

That is just not true, not in concerts anyway, not a single second was mimed. TV appearances yes but I don't mind that, it is for promotion.
Anyway it's been discussed so many times and each time I get sucked right in again. So I'm going to leave it here this time lol

No, not in concerts. You right about that.

 

[mjawb2009]

We should keep in mind that there is a lot of TIi footage that is yet to be released. We may have a fairer view of MJ's condition in the future if we get to see more footage

 

[mj_frenzy]

We should keep in mind that there is a lot of TIi footage that is yet to be released. We may have a fairer view of MJ's condition in the future if we get to see more footage

They are not going to release this unseen, additional 'This Is It' footage.

Keep in mind that this unseen, additional 'This Is It' footage portray Michael Jackson in a negative light (in terms of his failing health), so such a potential release would not be a wise move for AEG Live, Sony, The Estate, and of course for the legacy of Michael Jackson.

Also, there is another obstacle: the multiple members of Michael Jackson's family who are not going to allow such a potential release (considering their reactions against the 2009 film release which faced very strong opposition by them).

 

[SmoothGangsta]

They are not going to release this unseen, additional 'This Is It' footage.

Keep in mind that this unseen, additional 'This Is It' footage portray Michael Jackson in a negative light (in terms of his failing health), so such a potential release would not be a wise move for AEG Live, Sony, The Estate, and of course for the legacy of Michael Jackson.

Also, there is another obstacle: the multiple members of Michael Jackson's family who are not going to allow such a potential release (considering their reactions against the 2009 film release which faced very strong opposition by them).

Lawyers in one of the court cases watched all of the footage and said that they did not see anything that showed MJ in a bad way. It has also been stated that cameras were not kept rolling on the day that he was visibly unwell.