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The MJ Estate fools us | and we forgive them every single time!?

kai said:
The problem is if you put a VHS rip on DVD it doesn’t make it DVD quality…..
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Unfortunately. I'm not really giving the pass to Wembley in that regard anyway.

If anything, we should hunt down the old MJ laserdiscs. Those are good analog quality video records.
 
zinniabooklover said:
Oh, tell me more. What are your thoughts on this? I'm intrigued.
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I think it’s a fantastic way to celebrate MJ with state of the art technical aspects. Not everybody will be able to see it, which is of course a huge bummer. But I think they are far more intriguing and fascinating than simple reissues.
 
AlwaysThere said:
I think it’s a fantastic way to celebrate MJ with state of the art technical aspects. Not everybody will be able to see it, which is of course a huge bummer. But I think they are far more intriguing and fascinating than simple reissues.
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Imagine if MJ used Matrix technology for music videos for Invincible
 
I will say there should be a balance between wanting and asking for more from the Estate

And then literally having another thread over Invincible 25. Like, please, let's at least try to make our demands believable and concentrated.

If the estate does do Invincible 25, you can at least expect certain fans to love and support it. Since the record is underplayed and unheard of, maybe they could actually use that to their advantage though. The fan in me would like a solid remaster, some cool animations, certain tracks to get airplay, And a 2nd disc with Shout, any unheard of songs, Another Day and Hollywood Tonight Original, and the stuff from The Ultimate Collection.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
I will say there should be a balance between wanting and asking for more from the Estate

And then literally having another thread over Invincible 25. Like, please, let's at least try to make our demands believable and concentrated.

If the estate does do Invincible 25, you can at least expect certain fans to love and support it. Since the record is underplayed and unheard of, maybe they could actually use that to their advantage though. The fan in me would like a solid remaster, some cool animations, certain tracks to get airplay, And a 2nd disc with Shout, any unheard of songs, Another Day and Hollywood Tonight Original, and the stuff from The Ultimate Collection.
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Yeah, I’m not saying that desire is unreasonable. I just feel like a lot of the rhetoric used comes off as though the estate is required to spoon-feed fans every little request, no matter how extravagant or unrealistic.

I’ve also found the fan community to be extraordinarily nearsighted. Reissues and albums are cool, but they fade into obscurity immediately upon release and do little to actually amplify a legacy. That’s why Prince doesn’t have a quarter of the social standing MJ does; his estate is only focused on raiding the vault and not actually spreading his music. Meanwhile, with MJ, you have record breaking Broadway shows, long-lasting Vegas residencies, high-selling documentaries, a video game that is still actively discussed among the new generation of music listeners, and a biopic which many expect will become the highest grossing of all time. That, to me, is how we should be celebrating and commemorating an artist, and while none of it has been flawless, I think it’s far more worthwhile. Of course both can be achieved, but the claim that “the estate is doing nothing” always translates to “the estate isn’t catering to me.”

But, hey. The Prince Estate just announced another $500 box set. So, that’s fun.
 
AlwaysThere said:
Yeah, I’m not saying that desire is unreasonable. I just feel like a lot of the rhetoric used comes off as though the estate is required to spoon-feed fans every little request, no matter how extravagant or unrealistic.

I’ve also found the fan community to be extraordinarily nearsighted. Reissues and albums are cool, but they fade into obscurity immediately upon release and do little to actually amplify a legacy. That’s why Prince doesn’t have a quarter of the standing MJ does; his estate is only focused on raiding the vault. Meanwhile, you have record breaking Broadway shows, long-lasting Vegas residencies, high-selling documentaries, a video game that is still actively discussed among the new generation of music listeners, and a biopic which many expect will become the highest grossing of all time. That, to me, is how we should be celebrating and commemorating MJ, and while none of it has been flawless, I think it’s far more worthwhile.

But, hey. The Prince Estate just announced another $500 box set. So, that’s fun.
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Here's how the musical is doing right now, on that subject
Hamilton (2015) made 176 million after it's first 717 showings, it's had 2000 shows since then and is now 4th all time on Broadway with 876 million​
MJ The Musical (2021) has made 145 million after it's first 707 showings, which is barely below what it had​
So currently it's on pace to be top 10 in terms of earnings, but won't be top 5. Still pretty great
 
AlwaysThere said:
That’s why Prince doesn’t have a quarter of the social standing MJ does; his estate is only focused on raiding the vault and not actually spreading his music.
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If Prince was still alive, he probably would be doing neither. The only place he allowed his music was on Tidal. If people posted his stuff elswhere, he had it taken down. Prince would have little or no interest in Broadway plays about himself, or things like Funko Pops. When he became a Jehovah's Witness, he stopped performing some of his earlier music or changed the lyrics, & he stopped using profanity.
 
DuranDuran said:
If Prince was still alive, he probably would be doing neither. The only place he allowed his music was on Tidal. If people posted his stuff elswhere, he had it taken down. Prince would have little or no interest in Broadway plays about himself, or things like Funko Pops. When he became a Jehovah's Witness, he stopped performing some of his earlier music or changed the lyrics, & he stopped using profanity.
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If so, there’s an argument to be made here that even reissuing his albums, much less the material he didn’t choose to include on them, would go against his wishes.

But whatever the case, my point is that the Prince estate’s idea of upholding his legacy consists of reissues and… reissues. That doesn’t attract new fans or sales. Finding new, intriguing ways to attract listeners does. While the Prince estate absolutely sweeps MJ’s off their feet in terms of product quality and consistency, I absolutely argue that MJ’s deserves credit for at least putting in effort to be a multimedia, multi-faceted organization rather than limiting themselves to one lane.
 
AlwaysThere said:
If so, there’s an argument to be made here that even reissuing his albums, much less the material he didn’t choose to include on them, would go against his wishes.

But whatever the case, my point is that the Prince estate’s idea of upholding his legacy consists of reissues and… reissues. That doesn’t attract new fans or sales. Finding new, intriguing ways to attract listeners does. While the Prince estate absolutely sweeps MJ’s off their feet in terms of product quality and consistency, I absolutely argue that MJ’s deserves credit for at least putting in effort to be a multimedia, multi-faceted organization rather than limiting themselves to one lane.
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They have podcasts too.
 
SmoothGangsta said:
I'm personally not at all interested in stuff that isn't MJ, which is what this estate seems to specialise in. Anything that actually is him is poorly executed to a ridiculous degree that it's actually depressing.
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The 2nd thing is the only actual problem. The 1st thing is not a problem.
 
AlwaysThere said:
Yeah, I’m not saying that desire is unreasonable. I just feel like a lot of the rhetoric used comes off as though the estate is required to spoon-feed fans every little request, no matter how extravagant or unrealistic.
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All fandoms are just terrible. Star Wars, Spider-Man, Sonic, MJ, Doctor Who, Superman, Batman, etc. Always complaining. Always hating something.

Unfortunately MJ fans blame the estate almost as much as Star Wars EU fans hate "Disney" for everything. But whatever, I can get along with negative and/or unsatisfied ppl.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
The 2nd thing is the only actual problem. The 1st thing is not a problem.
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It's a pretty big problem to me, not just talking about what is released and what isn't. It seems like this estate is only interested in stuff they themselves have created, which is rather concerning and shows how they feel about MJ and his own creations/work.

I know I'm not the only one who feels this way as it's been discussed before.
 
SmoothGangsta said:
It's a pretty big problem to me, not just talking about what is released and what isn't. It seems like this estate is only interested in stuff they themselves have created, which is rather concerning and shows how they feel about MJ and his own creations/work.

I know I'm not the only one who feels this way as it's been discussed before.
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They were interested in MJs works, then L.A. Reid and Timbaland got involved. Musically the intentions are split: Pure demoes or modernized tracks? I still think there's nothing wrong with neither side winning.

Meanwhile, the Cirque, Musical, Biopic play came from Tohme Tohme, while MJ was alive:

He would only briefly discuss Jackson’s finances. During his time with the superstar, Tohme said, he was paid nothing but was able to negotiate lucrative business deals that would secure the future of Jackson’s children. He followed a long line of business managers and spokespeople who had come and gone from Jackson over the years. In the final year, he said he played a pivotal role in turning things around.

His negotiations for Jackson included a Broadway show with the Nederlander organization, an animated TV show based on “Thriller,” a line of clothing including “moonwalk shoes,” and more. He said he was working with others to renegotiate the terms of Jackson’s main assets, his share of the Sony-ATV Music Publishing Catalog — which includes music by the Beatles — and the catalog of Mijac, the company that controls Michael Jackson’s own music.

“I am not in the music business. I’m a stranger to this business,” Tohme said, noting that he had stiff competition from others who wanted to take over Jackson’s finances.

Michael Jackson Adviser Dr. Tohme Tohme Breaks Silence To Talk About His Friend - Access

Dr. Tohme Tohme vividly remembers the first time he met with Michael Jackson to discuss the pop star’s finances. It’
accessonlineprod.ao.apps.nbcuni.com

www.theguardian.com

Michael Jackson's 'mysterious' adviser breaks his silence

In his first interview, Dr Tohme Tohme, Jackson's secretive spokesman, has revealed his role in the King of Pop's affairs
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

Meanwhile, the Cirque show became a factor because Jackson’s ex-manager Tohme Tohme said negotiations were underway before Jackson’s death.

www.hollywoodreporter.com

Michael Jackson’s Likeness Valued at $4.1 Million in Big Tax Court Win for Estate

The executors of the estate say the decision is “a huge, unambiguous victory for Michael Jackson’s children.”
www.hollywoodreporter.com www.hollywoodreporter.com

So ultimately, I find this a nothing point as well. Is it ideal, what I want? Hardly. But it's smart. What else is there to disapprove of? It's fine if it's not for us. MJ is not here to be creative anymore, were stuck with businessmen. Making business ventures. Enjoying MJs creativity is as easy as it's always been. All that's left is to try to get a new fix, or revitalize the old stuff in a new way.
 
TII 10th was overpriced , no new footage with over 100 hours. The estate could've given us 30 minutes extra :(
 
DanGerouS- said:
the estate is so disconnected,
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I am going to agree. Their mindset / stance on how Michael's legacy should be just does not work in this day or age.
I truly believe this.
 
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I've always thought that the estate has been hit or miss with their releases. BAD25 and Xscape being the best.

Thriller 40 was rubbish , the unreleased stuff was trash, really poor quality b sides and demos , if that's all that's left I'm not interested in hearing it.

Surely they have really exceeded expectations though in terms of their live shows? Cirque world tour, Vegas residency and brilliant Broadway show?

The movie could yet be their crowning moment.
 
btw:

they just showed munich 1997 earth song in 3D at the dierks studios event but i guess it still wont be released that way..
 
Thank God.

The fact that there is still a non-zero chance that the HIStory Tour might be officially released is a crime.
 
AlwaysThere said:
Thank God.

The fact that there is still a non-zero chance that the HIStory Tour might be officially released is a crime.
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If they're going to, why is it the worst tour date by far? Copenhagen and Gothenburg both are way slicker than Munich.
 
They could've did HIStory 25 and Dangerous sets already. About that COVID excuse, it isn't an excuse. The Prince Estate had the SOTT set planned since 2018 and finalized the rollout in late 2019 after the 1999 set. The Estate had plenty time to create sets and plan a rollout. And even if they didn't put out something, they could've did a HIStory 25 special or something streaming a concert. They showed Opening Night, snippets of Munich with the new angles, BJ leaked... As I said before, they are good at bringing in new fans but they need to work on satisfying the fans that are here already. After the biopic comes out and the promotion starts, they are going to have a rude awakening when they realize the new fans don't want all these projects either and a full deluxe set from an album to deep dive into that. Incorporate live shows more... Release live albums... Do better with the visuals and interactive content.. And sure some vault content leaked from those 2 albums but it's still needed on streaming services and physical medias. Dolby Atmos, remasters...
 
femi said:
They could've did HIStory 25 and Dangerous sets already. About that COVID excuse, it isn't an excuse. The Prince Estate had the SOTT set planned since 2018 and finalized the rollout in late 2019 after the 1999 set. The Estate had plenty time to create sets and plan a rollout. And even if they didn't put out something, they could've did a HIStory 25 special or something streaming a concert. They showed Opening Night, snippets of Munich with the new angles, BJ leaked... As I said before, they are good at bringing in new fans but they need to work on satisfying the fans that are here already. After the biopic comes out and the promotion starts, they are going to have a rude awakening when they realize the new fans don't want all these projects either and a full deluxe set from an album to deep dive into that. Incorporate live shows more... Release live albums... Do better with the visuals and interactive content.. And sure some vault content leaked from those 2 albums but it's still needed on streaming services and physical medias. Dolby Atmos, remasters...
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We need Invincible 20th, History 25, Dangerous 25, Off the Wall re-release, plus actual promotion campaigns to stream more songs like fans are actually doing right now to get Thriller #1 on the chart
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
All fandoms are just terrible. Star Wars, Spider-Man, Sonic, MJ, Doctor Who, Superman, Batman, etc. Always complaining. Always hating something.
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As someone who has been part of the online Sonic the Hedgehog fandom for nearly 25 years, I agree with this lol. Granted, there are some legit gripes with Sonic (i.e. the 2006 game), but yeah...

That said, the MJ fandom is probably the least toxic one I've been part of; the only thing really toxic about it to me are the allegations, and that's not the fans' fault.
 
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