The theory that Michael Jackson wanted to sabotage his ‘Invincible’ album

some old news pieces from the Invincible recording era

31/05/1999 New Album Special

Michael has been working with various producers on his new album. As usual, it is impossible to say which collaborations will make the final cut.
Here is a list of some artists that have been working with Michael on new recordings:
-Rodney Jerkins (recorded between 25 and 30 songs with Michael.)
-Carole Bayer Sager and David Foster (co-produced the millenium song “I Have This Dream” with Michael.)
-Devante Swing (former leader of R&B; band Jodeci, proposed song ideas to Michael by the end of 1998.)
-R. Kelly (co-produced and recorded two ballads with Michael in the fall of 1998.)
-Sisqo (Michael showed interest in “Do You Want Me”, a song composed by Mark Andrews, a.k.a. Sisqo, leader of R&B; band Dru Hill.)
-Puff Daddy (has co-produced a song for Michael featuring Dutch and Mase.)
-Babyface (has co-produced two tracks with Carole Bayer Sager for Michael.)
-Mark C. Rooney (has worked with 3T on “Brotherhood” and on their new album; he’s now working on songs for Michael.)
-Monica Mancini (daugther of composer Henri Mancini and famous background singer; she recorded a song with Michael in the winter of 1999.)

09/06/1999 Quote from Carole Bayer Sager

In a recent interview with an American journalist, songwriter Carole Bayer Sager talked about her work with the King of Pop:

"I am keeping myself quite busy working with Carole King on her new album and with Michael on a few new songs. Musicians with their amount of genius push me harder in my craft. Michael is aware of the pressure to have a hit, and he wants this album to be spectacular and full of twists you wouldn't expect from him... Michael is a sweet genuine professional who I have worked with twice before. He sang on one of my albums ("Just Friends") and I helped him with Off The Wall ("It's The Falling In Love").
We wrote a song together with David Foster about the millenium. It will be a celebration of the changing times, a song for the future, which I suspect will be bright."
16/06/1999 New Album - Release Date

Sony Music has finally set a release date for Michael Jackson's new album.
Following a meeting with Michael last week-end in New York, Tommy Mottola, president of Sony Music, set a date for the US release of the new album:
November 9th 1999.
As usual, the new record will certainly be released a couple of days earlier in Europe to prevent parallel imports.
Michael's American record company is currently wondering whether they will release a vinyl version of the new album. As of now, the only formats planned for release are CD, Cassette and Minidisc.
A vinyl pressing of the record would nevertheless be released in Europe.
19/07/1999 Slight Change in Schedule - Update

Michael was expected to turn in song samples from the new album by the end of this month. However, due to several delays, Sony Music won't get the expected material on time. Therefore, a slight change in the schedule has been made. Michael is now expected to turn in a sampler of his new album by early August.
This slight change does not affect the planned November 9th commercial release date.
29/07/1999 Official Announcement

Today, Sony Music has officially announced that they should get the tapes of Michael's new album by the end of August.
The title of the album should then be revealed...
04/08/1999 New Album - Sony Music Schedule

Due to new production delays, the schedule of Sony Music for the release of Michael Jackson's album is being rearranged. The final tapes of the new album won't be turned in by August as expected.
The November 9th commercial release date may be postponed soon. Sony Music is still hoping for a release this year but very little time is left now to meet the deadline.
05/08/1999 Michael with Will Smith

Today, dotmusic.co.uk published the following statement:
"Will Smith and Michael Jackson are teaming up for a track that is due out at the end of the year. Rodney Jerkins, who has produced records for the like of Whitney Houston, is the producer on the as as yet untitled track. A source said: "Will Smith has already laid down a rap. Now they're just waiting for Michael to lay down some vocals."
06/08/1999 Collaboration on the New Album

One of Michael's song from the new album will feature a rap solo by Will Smith.
Will Smith started to work on this track with Michael at the Hit Factory, in New York, in May of 1999. He met Michael there but spent little time with him in the studio.
This featuring rap is similar to the cameo appearances that Shaquille O'Neal, Naughty By Nature, Notorious B.I.G, Heavy D. or LTB did on Michael's Dangerous and HIStory albums.
11/08/1999 New Album - Release Date Postponed

Sony Music has rescheduled the release date of the new Michael Jackson album.
The new record is now expected for a release by early 2000.
21/08/1999 New Producer Works with Michael

A new producer is teaming up with the King of Pop.
Hip-hop producer DJ Scratch is bringing his hardcore flavor to one possible track for the new album. He is currently working with Michael Jackson.
DJ Scratch's latest work includes production on EMPD's Out Of Business album and on Busta Rhymes' hit singles "Do The Bus A Bus" and "Party Is Goin' On Over Here".
29/09/1999 New Collaboration

Michael Jackson is currently working on his new album in New York City.
One of his latest productions is a song that he recorded with Indian artist Ar Rahman.
The King of Pop is always exploring new musical grounds and this collaboration with Ar Rahman should bring a new flavor to one of his songs.
Ar Rahman is a popular Indian artist that appeared on stage during the "Michael Jackson & Friends" concert in Munich, Germany.
The song Michael Jackson and Ar Rahman recorded together is now completed and may appear on the new album.
14/10/1999 New Planning

Sony Music and Michael Jackson have set a new planning for the release of the album.
Michael has three months and a half to finish the recording of his new album. He is now expected to turn in the tapes of the album on January 31st 2000 at the latest.
A first single is planned for a release by the end of February, and the album should hit the streets by late March.
12/11/1999 New Collaboration

The King of Pop is still contemplating new musical directions for his forthcoming album.
Producer Emilio Estefan, Jr has been contacted by Michael Jackson and is currently working on two tracks for the new album.
Emilio Estefan, Jr is married to singer Gloria Estefan and has executive produced all of her albums. He is also the mastermind behind the famous Cuban band Miami Sound Machine. Estefan's most recent credits include production on Ricky Martin's latest album.

Should these tracks produced by Estefan appear on the new album, they would mark Michael Jackson's first recording of latin-styled music.

The King of Pop is currently in New York City where he has resumed work on his new album after a short break spent in Los Angeles.
23/12/1999 Album Release - New Planning

Once again, Sony Music has postponed the working release date of Michael's new album. The album tapes won't be ready by January as originally expected.
The record company is now hoping to release a single by April, and the album by May or June.

The King of Pop is still in New York working on new tracks. To this day, he has recorded 75 new songs for the album.
17/01/2000 Another Collaboration

Mainstream American producer Walter Afanasieff is working on Michael Jackson's new album. That's what the Los Angeles Times stated in an article about the hit producer published last week.
The newspaper said Afanasieff "is working on writing and/or production for Michael Jackson, Jennifer Lopez, Jessica Simpson, Julio Iglesias and the rock band Train."
This is the first collaboration between Walter Afanasieff and Michael Jackson.
Afanasieff has produced hits for a lot of American artists, including his most successfull record, "My Heart Will Go On" sung by Celine Dion.
26/01/2000 Quote from Walter Afanasieff

Columnists Marilyn Beck and Stacy Jenel Smith dedicated an article to Walter Afanasieff and Michael Jackson in the latest edition of their famous BeckSmith Hollywood Exclusive column.
The following is an excerpt of that article titled "When will Michael Jackson's next album be finished?"
" 'That's one of the great mysteries in the world,' answered producer Walter Afanasieff to the title question. 'It was supposed to be out last year. The record company is pressuring him, and it's now supposed to be done by summertime, but it's still pretty much a work in progress. Michael does so much recording, nobody knows when he'll be done. He could end up recording 70 songs. When he decides it's enough, it's enough.'
Afanasieff, Grammy-nominated for producer of the year, is contributing the tune 'Fall Again' to Jackson's disc. 'We worked to the point that we were three-fourths of the way finished —then, the incident happened when his son got very sick. We're going to have to reserve a little spot to finish the song.' "
12/02/2000 Work in Progress

Wyclef Jean has resumed work on two tracks for Michael Jackson's new album.
He started to work on the songs several months ago and, after a break, he is now back with Michael to finalize them.

There is still no release date for the release of the new album.
19/02/2000 New Album Release Date

Rodney Jerkins has recently granted an interview to an internet news service. Quotes from this interview have been circulated on the internet by Michael Jackson fan-clubs.
One of the things Rodney Jerkins was quoted as saying was that Michael Jackson's new album wouldn't be coming out before the end of the year and could probably be postponed until early 2001.
The fact is that there is no final release date for the new album as of now.

More information regarding the release date of the new album should be available soon.
01/03/2000 New Album Release

Sony Music International executives just had an important meeting where the release date of Michael Jackson's new album was discussed and four new songs premiered.
As of now, a new schedule is on. The new album is now expected to be released by September 2000.
Michael will be finishing the record into the summer and delivering it to the record company by early June at the latest. A first single from the album could then be released by August.

This news is not part of a promotional announcement. Release date is subject to change depending on Michael's own recording schedule.
17/03/2000 New Album Release - Update

Sony Music has once again postponed the release date of Michael Jackson's new album. Since the recording won't be finished on time, a new schedule has been set.
The new album is now slated for an October 2000 release.
28/03/2000 Seeing Voices

Michael Jackson recently recorded a song for Sony called "Seeing Voices." The song is about "signing", the communication language of the deaf. It features Sidney Fine's music and lyrics, and Ray Charles' choir.
Sidney Fine recently celebrated his 95th birthday. Among other songs, he wrote "Lady" for the Disney movie "Lady And The Tramp" in 1955, along with Ed Penner and Oliver Wallace
03/04/2000 Quote from Carole Bayer Sager

Daily News reporter Stephanie Dubois recently interviewed Carole Bayer Sager. The famous songwriter spoke about her collaboration with the King of Pop.
"I co-wrote two of the tunes that may be featured on the new album. I heard the song I co-wrote with Rodney Jerkins and it sounds great, as great as anything everyone remembers from Michael.
I believe that if you're an icon —and I think Michael fits into that description— the most important thing is to have an undeniable album, with 10-12 undeniable hit songs on it. I don't see any reason to rush. The only thing that matters is to keep that bar up high, and don't go below it.
The other song I co-wrote with David Foster and Michael is partly recorded. We're just waiting for Michael to finish the vocal."
07/04/2000 Rodney Jerkins Continues To Work With Michael

Yesterday, Rodney Jerkins issued the following statement through his publicist Courtney Barnes.

" Grammy Nominated producer Rodney Jerkins will continue to produce and write songs for the forthcoming Michael Jackson album as he has for over a year. Jerkins is furious about numerous rumors and stories that have surfaced over the past several weeks claiming he was fired by Jackson.
Jeff Kwatinetz, manager for Michael Jackson, upon hearing of the rumor, said 'Of course it's not true. Rodney was not fired. It's just silly internet gossip.' "

Today, Planet Jackson talked to Fred Jerkins, Rodney's brother, who is also working on the Michael Jackson project. Here are excerpts from that interview.
"This story about Michael firing Rodney is absolutely not true. Rodney has done 12 songs with Michael and Michael will choose some for the album. Right now, Rodney is busy with the Spice Girls project, but he will get back in the studio with Michael some time later. Anyway, Rodney is perfectioning the songs even if Michael is not there. The sound on Michael's album will be totally different from anything Rodney did before. Because Rodney is very versatile.
I think the album will be released next year. Actually, maybe this year. We're not sure."
30/06/2000 New Album Release Date - Update

Michael Jackson has set another release plan for his new album. He is now hoping to release the record in March 2001.
Plans for a release by Christmas 2000 are definitely cancelled.
29/09/2000 New Album Release - Update

Michael Jackson has postponed his plans for a March 2001 release of his new album.
As of now, the record won't come out before the summer of 2001.

04/10/2000 New Album Update

Michael Jackson is no longer recording new music for his album. He currently has a large selection of tracks from which he will make the final choice.
As of now, Michael Jackson is not planning on recording anymore new songs for this album.

The mixing of the new album has now begun. Michael Jackson and engineer Bruce Swedien hope to be done with this crucial and final artistic stage by late January 2001.
Provided everything goes in accordance with this working schedule, the new album could exit the mastering stage in the Spring of 2001 and be ready for a release early in the Summer of 2001.

03/12/2000 New Album - Release Date

Last week, Michael Jackson and Sony Music have set a release date for the new Michael Jackson album.
The new recording is now scheduled for a release on Tuesday March 27th 2001.

This working release schedule is for the US market and is subject to modifications.

The new album is to be released on a record six configurations:
-CD Album
-Cassette Album
-Mini Disc Album
-Vinyl Album
-CD Super Audio
-DVD Audio Album
21/12/2000 New Album - European Release Date

Sony Music has set a European release date for the new Michael Jackson album.
The new recording is now scheduled for a release on
Monday March 26th 2001.

The US release of the album has already been slated for March 27th.

This working schedule is subject to modifications depending on Michael Jackson's progress in finalizing the album.
09/01/2001 New Album Postponed

Michael Jackson's new album won't be ready for a March release as previously planned.
The King of Pop is still working on new tracks for the album.
Although the mixing of most of the tracks is done, Michael Jackson is still recording new material.
Therefore, the album won't come out by the end of March. A new schedule for the release is currently in the work.
11/01/2001 New Album - On Schedule Again

Sony Music has planned a new release date for the King of Pop's album.
The new planning coincides with Michael Jackson's latest readjustment in the recording schedule.
Sony Music still hopes to deliver the new album to the public before the summer.
The new working release date is April 24th in the USA and April 23rd in Europe.
This schedule being very tight, a rearrangement is likely to occur.
25/01/2001 New Album - New Release Date

Sony Music have rescheduled the new Michael Jackson album to June 26th in the USA and June 25th in Europe (2001).
In order to meet this release date, the recording of the new album will have to be over by the end of March.
04/02/2001 New Songs Premiered to Privileged Few

On January 31st, a few Sony Music executives had the privilege to hear three tracks from Michael Jackson's new album.
While a handful of music industry professionals were attending a meeting with Tommy Mottola in New York, the Sony Music President premiered three new Michael Jackson songs to his hand-picked audience.
This exclusive music was played as an example to demonstrate the power of excellence in quality production, a goal that, according to Mottola, each Sony Music executive should push their artists for.
Three songs from Michael Jackson's new album were premiered during the meeting. Only 1 minute of each song was played, consisting of a verse and a chorus.
Michael Jackson being very secret about the titles of his songs, this information will remain undisclosed.
The first two tracks were up-tempo; the last one was a ballad co-produced by R. Kelly.
18/04/2001 New Album - Release Date Update

Sony Music and Michael Jackson have rescheduled the release of Michael Jackson's new album.
The album is now tentatively slated for a release in the USA on September 18th 2001. (A release date for Europe is yet to come.)
21/05/2001 New Album Release Date - Update

Michael Jackson and Sony Music have now come to a final decision with regards to the release date for the new album.
Michael Jackson's new album will either be released on September 18th or September 25th.
It is Michael Jackson's will to do his utmost to release the album before September 30th.
13/06/2001 New Album Premiere

Tuesday June 12th, Sony Music held a special conference at the Hit Factory studio in New York City to premiere Michael Jackson's new album to Sony Music executives from around the world.

Michael Jackson greeted the exclusive crowd at the studio and then left the audience.

15 songs were premiered during that special session.

Michael being very secret about his songs prior to their release, we will not reveal the complete tracklisting details. Besides, there are still four tracks from the selection that was premiered that might be replaced. Michael is still undecided about those four songs.

The title of the new album is now decided.
Michael has chosen to give a spectacular title to his new record.
As it is Michael's wish to keep it a secret for the time being, we will only reveal that the album title is one word that begins with the letter "i".
And it is spectacular.

After the exclusive premiere of Michael Jackson's new album, the reaction of the crowd was ecstatic.
The new record was described by many as Michael's best work since "Thriller."
15/06/2001 New Album - Final Release Date

Sony Music and Michael Jackson have now confirmed the final release date for INVINCIBLE, the King of Pop's new album.

The record will be released on September 25th.
19/06/2001 First Single

Michael Jackson has chosen the first single to be released from the forthcoming INVINCIBLE album.

It will be "Rock My World."
11/07/2001 New Single Release - Update

There are currently no plans to release "You Rock My World" as a commercial single in the USA next September.
The song will only be released to radio stations and clubs in America.

"You Rock My World" will be available commercially in other parts of the world, however.
13/07/2001 You Rock My World - Update

On July 30th, the King of Pop will take over airwaves around the world with "You Rock My World," the smashing new single from the forthcoming INVINCIBLE album.

Produced by Michael Jackson and Rodney Jerkins, "You Rock My World" was written and composed by Michael Jackson and Rodney Jerkins, and co-written by Fred Jerkins III, LaShawn Daniels and Nora Payne.

"You Rock My World" opens with a spoken dialogue between Michael Jackson and comedian Chris Tucker.

The hit song features lead and background vocals by Michael Jackson.
28/07/2001 Release Dates Rescheduled

Due to production delays, Sony`s Michael Jackson release schedule is currently being modified.
Several release dates, including the radio and video premieres of "You Rock My World," will be rescheduled.
A new release planning should be available shortly.

08/08/2001 New Album Postponed


Due to production delays in the filming of two short-films to accompany the first two singles off of INVINCIBLE, Michael Jackson and Sony Music had to postpone the release of the new album, the first single, the expanded versions of Off The Wall, Thriller, Bad and Dangerous, and the HIStory Greatest Hits compilation.

There is currently no new release date set for INVINCIBLE. However, the new album is tentatively slated for late October. The first single is expected to be released to radios by late August or early September.
10/08/2001 You Rock My World - Release Date

"You Rock My World" is now scheduled to hit radio stations around the world on September 10th.
The accompanying video is planned to premiere on the same day.

The international commercial release date of the "You Rock My World" single is slated for October 8th.
23/08/2001 INVINCIBLE It Is

Today, Sony Music President Tommy Mottola, Epic Records Chairman Dave Glew and Epic Records President Polly Anthony issued a press statement confirming that Michael Jackson's new album will be titled INVINCIBLE and will be released on October 29th internationally and on October 30th in North America.

In the press release, Tommy Mottola says, "INVINCIBLE contains some of Michael Jackson's finest work to date. He continues to grow as an artist and, together with his talented cowriters and coproducers, he has created a fresh body of music that is destined to take its place alongside the greatest recordings in Pop history. Music lovers around the world will be surprised and delighted by the power, depth and range of INVINCIBLE.''

Dave Glew adds, "As a singer, composer, producer, arranger and musician, Michael Jackson is one of the most talented and influential artists in the history of recorded music. The release of this new album is a global event. From 'You Rock My World' to `Speechless, INVINCIBLE is a towering musical achievement, that breaks new ground for this pioneering artist.''

Continues Polly Anthony, "'You Rock My World' represents the very best of Michael Jackson. Simply put, this record is a global smash!''

The press statement also states that the director of the "You Rock My World" short film is Paul Hunter.
24/08/2001 You Rock My World - Short Film Update

Filming of the "You Rock My World" short-film was officially finished on Tuesday, August 21st.
Director Paul Hunter is currently working on editing and post-production of the film.

Paul Hunter is one of the most famous directors of the music video world. Since 1997, he has laid down a new style in music videos. His credits include Whitney Houston's "Step By Step," Mariah Carey's "Honey," Janet Jackson's "I Get Lonely," Will Smith's "Wild Wild West," Jennifer Lopez' "If You Had My Love" and "TLC's "Unpretty."

The release of the "You Rock My World" short-film has been rescheduled. It will now premiere worldwide on September 17th.
24/09/2001 World Exclusive! INVINCIBLE Updated Tracklisting

Michael Jackson has made a final last-minute change to the content of his forthcoming INVINCIBLE album.
The King of Pop has decided to replace the song “Shout” with a new track titled “You Are My Life,” produced by Michael Jackson and Babyface.

Here is the complete tracklisting of the INVINCIBLE album, including timings. All tracks in final order.

1- UNBREAKABLE (6:25)
(Written by Michael Jackson, Rodney Jerkins, Fred Jerkins III, LaShawn Daniels, Nora Payne, Robert Smith, Christopher Wallace)
Produced by Michael Jackson & Rodney Jerkins
Featuring special rap by The Notorious B.I.G.

2- HEARTBREAKER (5:10)
(Written by Michael Jackson, Rodney Jerkins, Fred Jerkins III, LaShawn Daniels, Mischke, Norman Gregg)
Produced by Michael Jackson & Rodney Jerkins
Featuring rap by FATS

3- INVINCIBLE (4:45)
(Written by Michael Jackson, Rodney Jerkins, Fred Jerkins III, LaShawn Daniels, Norman Gregg)
Produced by Michael Jackson & Rodney Jerkins

4- BREAK OF DAWN (5:32)
(Written by Michael Jackson, Dr. Freeze)
Produced by Michael Jackson & Dr. Freeze

5- HEAVEN CAN WAIT (4:49)
(Written by Michael Jackson, Teddy Riley, Andreao Heard, Nate Smith, Teron Beal, E. Laues, K. Quiller)
Produced by Michael Jackson & Teddy Riley

6- YOU ROCK MY WORLD (5:39)
(Written by Michael Jackson, Rodney Jerkins, Fred Jerkins III, LaShawn Daniels, Nora Payne)
Produced by Michael Jackson & Rodney Jerkins
Intro by Michael Jackson and Chris Tucker

7- BUTTERFLIES (4:40)
(Written by Michael Jackson, Andre Harris, Marsha Ambrosius)
Produced by Michael Jackson & Andre Harris

8- SPEECHLESS (3:18)
(Written by Michael Jackson)
Produced by Michael Jackson

9- 2000 WATTS (4:24)
(Written by Michael Jackson, Teddy Riley, Tyrese Gibson, J. Henson)
Produced by Michael Jackson & Teddy Riley

10- YOU ARE MY LIFE (4:39)
(Written by Michael Jackson, Babyface, Carole Bayer Sager, John McClain)
Produced by Michael Jackson & Babyface

11- DON'T WALK AWAY (4:25)
(Written by Michael Jackson, Teddy Riley, Richard Carlton Stites, Reed Vertelney)
Produced by Michael Jackson & Teddy Riley

12- PRIVACY (5:05)
(Written by Michael Jackson, Rodney Jerkins, Fred Jerkins III, LaShawn Daniels, Bernard Bell)
Produced by Michael Jackson & Rodney Jerkins

13- CRY (5:01)
(Written by R. Kelly)
Produced by Michael Jackson & R. Kelly

14- THE LOST CHILDREN (4:00)
(Written by Michael Jackson)
Produced by Michael Jackson
Contains audio snippets from the Twilight Zone

15- WHATEVER HAPPENS (4:56)
(Written by Michael Jackson, Teddy Riley, Gil Cang, J. Quay, Geoffrey Williams)
Produced by Michael Jackson & Teddy Riley
Featuring guitar solo by Santana


16- THREATENED (4:19)
(Written by Michael Jackson, Rodney Jerkins, Fred Jerkins III, LaShawn Daniels, Robert Smith)
Produced by Michael Jackson & Rodney Jerkins
Contains audio snippets of Rod Serling
26/09/2001 INVINCIBLE Vinyl LP To Include Bonus Track

The vinyl album version of INVINCIBLE may include a bonus track not available on the CD.
A special tracklisting for the vinyl pressing is currently being considered.

INVINCIBLE will be released as a double-12" vinyl album in America and other countries.
Here is the tentative tracklisting:

Disc 1 - Side A
1- UNBREAKABLE (6:25)
2- HEARTBREAKER (5:10)
3- INVINCIBLE (4:45)
4- BREAK OF DAWN (5:32)

Disc 1 - Side B
1- HEAVEN CAN WAIT (4:49)
2- YOU ROCK MY WORLD (5:39)
3- BUTTERFLIES (4:40)
4- SPEECHLESS (3:18)

Disc 2 - Side A
1- 2000 WATTS (4:24)
2- SHOUT (4:17)
3- DON'T WALK AWAY (4:25)
4- PRIVACY (5:05)

Disc 2 - Side B
1- CRY (5:01)
2- THE LOST CHILDREN (4:00)
3- WHATEVER HAPPENS (4:56)
4- THREATENED (4:19)

Note: "You Are My Life" would be replaced with "Shout."
02/10/2001 INVINCIBLE Tracklisting - Modification Update

A change in the track sequence of the INVINCIBLE album has recently been made. With the inclusion of "You Are My Life" in the tracklisting, Michael Jackson has made a transposition. "Privacy" is now track #11 and "Don't Walk Away" is track #12. The order of the other tracks remains the same.

With regards to the LP vinyl and cassette versions of the album, the song "Shout" will not be included after all. It has been replaced on all formats by "You Are My Life."
 
mj_frenzy;4276363 said:
It is well documented that Sony Music did not release ‘Earth Song’ as a single in USA back then due to different demographic factors of the country.

Documented where? Please provide sources / quotes other than yourself, or just let it be.

Blaming it on demographic factors (age, sex, race) is nonsense really. Why release anything Michael Jackson at all then. It's clear that record companies in general only release what fits their available audience, but we are talking about a rather well-established artist here. And why was "Stranger In Moscow" released as a commercial single only a few months later then in the USA? It sure fits the same pop music audience as "Earth Song". It all doesn't quite add up.


mj_frenzy;4276363 said:
But ‘This Time Around’ had a strong potential in USA (especially in the country’s urban radios),

That's what I wrote.


mj_frenzy;4276363 said:
so the record company decided to bundle ‘Earth Song’ (as a B-side) with the single release of ‘This Time Around’ there.

The songs were released as a bundle in the USA, yes, but not necessarily with This Time Around as the main song.
At least on the US promo-only Vinyl and CD releases, some came with TTA as the first song, EA as second, and some had it the other way round with Earth Song as the main song. Different promos for different segments of the market.

e.g.: Earth Song US promos:
https://www.discogs.com/Michael-Jackson-Earth-Song-This-Time-Around/release/3468321
https://www.discogs.com/Michael-Jackson-Earth-Song/release/720166


mj_frenzy;4276363 said:
Sony Music made huge efforts to help ‘Earth Song’ to achieve chart success in USA (among others, by paying urban radios in USA to play the song more frequently).

It would be interesting to read more inside stories about what really went on at Sony regarding all of this, but please understand that your sole claims that this and that happened is not enough. While paid airplay might be the common procedure in certain cases, you have to provide detailed quotes / sources that this actually happened to the extend of "huge efforts".


mj_frenzy;4276363 said:
It was a marketing decision (on the part of Sony Music) to help ‘Earth Song’ to achieve chart success in USA, although that move proved to be unsuccessful in the end for that song there.

Jupp. It looked like the pre-release promo phase just wasn't successful enough to justify a commercial single release in the USA. Although at the time that would have been quite unusual, insecure promotion logic regarding an artist as big as Michael Jackson. I mean this was 1995, years before the internet screwed up the music industry... not 2019, where record companies have to turn every Cent twice before it's spent on promotion.

Up to that point the HIStory promotion campaign was running very successfully with Scream and YANA charting high in the USA. So while still in the early phase of a long-term promotion plan, why would the commercial release of the follow-up single solely depend on how it performed in the pre-release promo phase (if certain selected radio and club DJs played it)?

Earth Song was released as a commercial single globally (minus USA) on 27. November 1995.
The great video for the song had been released on 18. November 1995 (MTV Europe).

I guess the original plan for the USA was to hold the single back until the "One Night Only" show was on TV (December 10.) and to seize the momentum of that. As far as I've read, Earth Song was meant to be part of that show. So this would have made sense.

Even with the show being cancelled, they could have thrown the Earth Song single on the market, without any big extra effort. Video, Remixes, etc all being available, plus Michael being in the headlines because of his breakdown and being hospitalized.

We can only guess what were the real reasons why the commercial Earth Song single was held back anyway.
Did Sony really fear a big flop, just because the song underperformed on radio and in clubs in the early promo phase? (Was it really that much better with "Stranger In Moscow" a few months later?). Was it cancelled because they thought without "One Night Only" the single wouldn't get the necessary push in the USA? Did they think Michael staged his breakdown, not caring about Sony's promotion plans? Did Sony pull the plug on Earth Song because they lost a lot of money with the cancellation of "One Night Only"? Was it all of that together? Lots of question marks...
 
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dethorro;4276448 said:
Even if it wasn't, it doesn't mean that it isn't true. That was the date that Sony originally set in June (1999). It was the deadline which Michael eventually didn't meet because of several postponements.

By mid-2000, the album seemed to be nearing completion and the mixing process started. However, Michael decided to write completely new material. That's when: 'Unbreakable', 'Heartbreaker' and 'Threatened' were born.

Yeah, obviously because Michael hadn't met their initial deadline of November 1999. They thought that the album would be ready by 2000.

Michael started writing and recording demos in October 1997 (right after the HIStory Tour ended) alongside Brad Buxer and Michael Prince.

In August 1998 he started working with Dr.Freeze on 'A Place With No Name', 'Blue Gangsta', 'Break Of Dawn' and 'Jungle'.

In February 1999 Sony executives (including Tommy Motolla) visited the studio to hear some new songs. Michael played them 'Break Of Dawn' and Motolla loved it.

In March 1999 he met with Cony Rooney in New York to record 'She Was Loving Me'

In early/mid 1999 Rodney Jerkins presented him 'You Rock My World' which Michael recorded not long after and 'Xscape'.

So Michael could've easily released an album in late 1999. He had enough great material by then.

Fuzball;4276455 said:
some old news pieces from the Invincible recording era

That initial date of the album’s release (on November 9th, 1999) was just for promotional purposes, rather than being an actual one.

In other words, Sony Music apparently aimed to hype up Michael Jackson’s forthcoming album, so they decided in June (1999) to publicly set that particular date of the November release.

The initial, actual date of the album’s release came with the CD booklet of the ‘Pop Songs’ album (which announced a release of his forthcoming album in 2000).

Note also that Sony Music in June (1999) set a date of release for the end of that year without even hearing and approving first all the album’s submitted tracks, which also means that the album’s date of the November release served only promotional reasons.

Electro;4276456 said:
Documented where? Please provide sources / quotes other than yourself, or just let it be.

Blaming it on demographic factors (age, sex, race) is nonsense really. Why release anything Michael Jackson at all then. It's clear that record companies in general only release what fits their available audience, but we are talking about a rather well-established artist here. And why was "Stranger In Moscow" released as a commercial single only a few months later then in the USA? It sure fits the same pop music audience as "Earth Song". It all doesn't quite add up.

That's what I wrote.

The songs were released as a bundle in the USA, yes, but not necessarily with This Time Around as the main song.
At least on the US promo-only Vinyl and CD releases, some came with TTA as the first song, EA as second, and some had it the other way round with Earth Song as the main song. Different promos for different segments of the market.

e.g.: Earth Song US promos:
https://www.discogs.com/Michael-Jackson-Earth-Song-This-Time-Around/release/3468321
https://www.discogs.com/Michael-Jackson-Earth-Song/release/720166

It would be interesting to read more inside stories about what really went on at Sony regarding all of this, but please understand that your sole claims that this and that happened is not enough. While paid airplay might be the common procedure in certain cases, you have to provide detailed quotes / sources that this actually happened to the extend of "huge efforts".

Jupp. It looked like the pre-release promo phase just wasn't successful enough to justify a commercial single release in the USA. Although at the time that would have been quite unusual, insecure promotion logic regarding an artist as big as Michael Jackson. I mean this was 1995, years before the internet screwed up the music industry... not 2019, where record companies have to turn every Cent twice before it's spent on promotion.

Up to that point the HIStory promotion campaign was running very successfully with Scream and YANA charting high in the USA. So while still in the early phase of a long-term promotion plan, why would the commercial release of the follow-up single solely depend on how it performed in the pre-release promo phase (if certain selected radio and club DJs played it)?

Earth Song was released as a commercial single globally (minus USA) on 27. November 1995.
The great video for the song had been released on 18. November 1995 (MTV Europe).

I guess the original plan for the USA was to hold the single back until the "One Night Only" show was on TV (December 10.) and to seize the momentum of that. As far as I've read, Earth Song was meant to be part of that show. So this would have made sense.

Even with the show being cancelled, they could have thrown the Earth Song single on the market, without any big extra effort. Video, Remixes, etc all being available, plus Michael being in the headlines because of his breakdown and being hospitalized.

We can only guess what were the real reasons why the commercial Earth Song single was held back anyway.
Did Sony really fear a big flop, just because the song underperformed on radio and in clubs in the early promo phase? (Was it really that much better with "Stranger In Moscow" a few months later?). Was it cancelled because they thought without "One Night Only" the single wouldn't get the necessary push in the USA? Did they think Michael staged his breakdown, not caring about Sony's promotion plans? Did Sony pull the plug on Earth Song because they lost a lot of money with the cancellation of "One Night Only"? Was it all of that together? Lots of question marks...

It was mentioned on papers that ‘Earth Song’ did not fit the USA’s demographic factors, and also that this was the reason for Sony Music to decide against that single’s commercial release there (the low chart success eventually of the song in USA, as a promo and as a B-side, also seems to prove that).

Sony Music paid radio stations in USA to play ‘Earth Song’ more frequently there because that was part of the record company’s USA marketing strategy in general of the ‘HIStory’ album (Sony Music at the time paid also USA radio stations to play more frequently the other songs of the album too, such as ‘Scream’ and ‘You Are Not Alone’.

The record company’s huge efforts for the success of the ‘Earth Song’ (and of the ‘HIStory’ album) in USA were because its executives were striving to rebuild his positive image in USA thinking that his mostly negative image there was harming also Sony’s general image in USA.

About ‘Earth Song’ there is also another interesting thing.

English singer Tony Mortimer (and former member of the English band East 17) claimed that Michael Jackson was about to release in Europe the ‘Earth Song’ single a year earlier (in November 1994), but the huge chart and commercial success of the band’s ‘Stay Another Day’ single in Europe made Michael Jackson delay the single release of his ‘Earth Song’ for one year (November 1995).

If Tony Mortimer is telling the truth about that, then this clearly indicates that the ‘HIStory’ album was originally about to get a release in 1994, with a different order of commercially released singles.
 
mj_frenzy;4276534 said:
It was mentioned on papers that ‘Earth Song’ did not fit the USA’s demographic factors, and also that this was the reason for Sony Music to decide against that single’s commercial release there (the low chart success eventually of the song in USA, as a promo and as a B-side, also seems to prove that).

"Papers" mentioning "demographic factors" as the reason, doesn't make it less nonsense. That is if you actually think about it for yourself for a second. (see my last post regarding this.)



mj_frenzy;4276534 said:
Sony Music paid radio stations in USA to play ‘Earth Song’ more frequently there because that was part of the record company’s USA marketing strategy in general of the ‘HIStory’ album (Sony Music at the time paid also USA radio stations to play more frequently the other songs of the album too, such as ‘Scream’ and ‘You Are Not Alone’.

Source? Quotes? "Papers"? Anything? :)



mj_frenzy;4276534 said:
The record company’s huge efforts for the success of the ‘Earth Song’ (and of the ‘HIStory’ album) in USA were because its executives were striving to rebuild his positive image in USA thinking that his mostly negative image there was harming also Sony’s general image in USA.

Sure, Michaels image was and is damaged especially in the USA since 1993. But again, why was it no problem to release "Stranger In Moscow" as a commercial single a few months later? Would be interesting to know how exactly that song (of the same type of pop music category as Earth Song, by the same troubled artist) performed in charts in the advance-promo-phase that it "justified" a commercial release of the single (in that same country).



mj_frenzy;4276534 said:
English singer Tony Mortimer (and former member of the English band East 17) claimed that Michael Jackson was about to release in Europe the ‘Earth Song’ single a year earlier (in November 1994), but the huge chart and commercial success of the band’s ‘Stay Another Day’ single in Europe made Michael Jackson delay the single release of his ‘Earth Song’ for one year (November 1995).


Come on, that's obviously a blah blah celebrity gossip story. Makes East17 look good against that big american megastar legend, but it's nonsense. I don't even know where to start... just think.

This probably originates from the time that the Brit Awards Jarvis Cocker "incident" generated headlines in the UK tabloids for weeks, so every little Earth Song anecdote (especially not in favour of Michael) was welcome.
 
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mj_frenzy;4276534 said:
About ‘Earth Song’ there is also another interesting thing.

English singer Tony Mortimer (and former member of the English band East 17) claimed that Michael Jackson was about to release in Europe the ‘Earth Song’ single a year earlier (in November 1994), but the huge chart and commercial success of the band’s ‘Stay Another Day’ single in Europe made Michael Jackson delay the single release of his ‘Earth Song’ for one year (November 1995).

If Tony Mortimer is telling the truth about that, then this clearly indicates that the ‘HIStory’ album was originally about to get a release in 1994, with a different order of commercially released singles.

Completely nonsense. Wasn’t the ad libs to the Earth Song recorded in 1995, only a few weeks prior to the release of History? Unless, Michael was planning on releasing Earth Song without the ad libs which I doubt, this is completely nonsense. With all due respect to Tony Mortimer (first time hearing his name), I very much doubt that Michael was worried about competing with him on the charts.
 
Was a Christmas #1 in the United Kingdom (although highly coveted in the UK at the time) really so important to international megastar Michael Jackson? There is simply no way it's true, for a multitude of reasons.

Tony just said he heard that. Whoever he heard it from made it up.
 
What I have read in previous multiple threads about how Invincible could have been better and how it become overproduced, to many songwriters etc, there were posts from users that provided information about when certain track was recorded and I want to write down recording dates for the tracks I have read about from the album:

Unbreakable: 2000-2001
Heartbreaker: 2000-2001
Invincible: 2000-2001
Break of Dawn: 1998-1999
Heaven Can Wait: 2001
You Rock My World: 1999
Butterflies: March 2001
Speechless: ????
2000 Watts: 2000-2001
You Are My Life: August 2001 (Last track)
Privacy: 2000-2001 (But I have read somewhere in this forum, someone else stated it was recorded as early as in August 1999)
Don't Walk Away: ????
Cry: 2000-2001 (But I have read somewhere in this forum, someone else stated it was recorded sometime in 1999)
The Lost Children: December 2000
Whatever Happens: May-June 2001
Threatened: 2001

So with Speechless and Don't Walk Away, either I don't have any information or I don't remember the dates. If somebody knows correct dates when it comes to year and month, please do :) Because it would be interesting to see when each track came to fruit and got completed and see if I can see pattern of "overproduced" track.

Then I read somewhere in this forum that Michael did record complete number of tracks by Summer of 2000 and it was ready to enter into the mixing stage, according to the sound engineer Stuart Brawley that worked with Michael. But then Michael wanted to start from scratch again with new tracks and from there tracks like Unbreakable, Heartbreaker and Threatened were conceived by Summer of 2001.
 
john13th;4277060 said:
What I have read in previous multiple threads about how Invincible could have been better and how it become overproduced, to many songwriters etc, there were posts from users that provided information about when certain track was recorded and I want to write down recording dates for the tracks I have read about from the album:

Unbreakable: 2000-2001
Heartbreaker: 2000-2001
Invincible: 2000-2001
Break of Dawn: 1998-1999
Heaven Can Wait: 2001
You Rock My World: 1999
Butterflies: March 2001
Speechless: ????
2000 Watts: 2000-2001
You Are My Life: August 2001 (Last track)
Privacy: 2000-2001 (But I have read somewhere in this forum, someone else stated it was recorded as early as in August 1999)
Don't Walk Away: ????
Cry: 2000-2001 (But I have read somewhere in this forum, someone else stated it was recorded sometime in 1999)
The Lost Children: December 2000
Whatever Happens: May-June 2001
Threatened: 2001

So with Speechless and Don't Walk Away, either I don't have any information or I don't remember the dates. If somebody knows correct dates when it comes to year and month, please do :) Because it would be interesting to see when each track came to fruit and got completed and see if I can see pattern of "overproduced" track.

Then I read somewhere in this forum that Michael did record complete number of tracks by Summer of 2000 and it was ready to enter into the mixing stage, according to the sound engineer Stuart Brawley that worked with Michael. But then Michael wanted to start from scratch again with new tracks and from there tracks like Unbreakable, Heartbreaker and Threatened were conceived by Summer of 2001.

‘Speechless’ was recorded in March (2000), while ‘Don’t Walk Away’ was recorded nearly a year later (April, 2001).

‘Privacy’ was recorded in late 1999, not in 2000-2001.

‘Cry’ and ‘Break Of Dawn’ were two of the earliest songs that Michael Jackson recorded (both in 1998), and these two were among the first songs that he presented to Sony Music for evaluation.

Bruce Swedien in mid-2000 (summer) was given the green light to begin the mixing process of songs for that album, which included among others also the following ones: ‘You Rock My World’, ’Speechless’, ‘We’ve Had Enough’, ‘Xscape’, ‘Blue Gangsta’, ‘A Place With No Name’, ‘Break Of Dawn’, ‘Cry’, ‘She Was Loving Me’.

Then, Michael Jackson started to behave in an irrational way while working on that album.

He appeared not to care enough about its progress, while he used to be for long periods absent from important recording sessions, leaving his multiple teams of producers and songwriters to work on (or finish) many tracks for that album.

Also, my information has it that the unheard, nearly finished/finished songs from the ‘Invincible’ era in general are nearly one hundred.
 
mj_frenzy;4277082 said:
Then, Michael Jackson started to behave in an irrational way while working on that album.

He appeared not to care enough about its progress, while he used to be for long periods absent from important recording sessions, leaving his multiple teams of producers and songwriters to work on (or finish) many tracks for that album.

Also, my information has it that the unheard, nearly finished/finished songs from the ‘Invincible’ era in general are nearly one hundred.

Source? You'll never learn... will you?

What I vaguely remember (did Michael himself say it?) is, that he was sick a lot during that time, because his kids catched colds often etc (as little kids do). Save to say though that he was busy being a father at that time, next to finishing the album.
 
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Source? You'll never learn... will you?

What I vaguely remember (did Michael himself say it?) is, that he was sick a lot during that time, because his kids catched colds often etc (as little kids do). Save to say though that he was busy being a father at that time, next to finishing the album.

The book making Michael is the source for Michael's behaviour (I think) it's a pretty good book from what I've read so far.
 
Electro;4277104 said:
Source? You'll never learn... will you?

I must say, as a new fan, I find some of those posts really confusing. Without any source it’s hard to tell what’s true and what’s not, if you don’t know the entire big picture yet.
 
Electro;4277104 said:
Source? You'll never learn... will you?

What I vaguely remember (did Michael himself say it?) is, that he was sick a lot during that time, because his kids catched colds often etc (as little kids do). Save to say though that he was busy being a father at that time, next to finishing the album.

SmoothGangsta;4277108 said:
The book making Michael is the source for Michael's behaviour (I think) it's a pretty good book from what I've read so far.

ScreenOrigami;4277109 said:
I must say, as a new fan, I find some of those posts really confusing. Without any source it’s hard to tell what’s true and what’s not, if you don’t know the entire big picture yet.

Firstly, that was on excuse on his part, because from a medical point of view, generally a person who is older than a kid, he or she cannot catch a cold from the kid (due to the person’s immunity).

It works that way: a kid can catch a cold from an older person, or a kid can catch a cold from another kid.

Secondly, there are several sources for Michael Jackson’s erratic behaviour (from mid-2000 onwards) while he was working on that album.

Apart from that book (‘Making Michael’), some of his collaborators have spoken about that also on different media outlets.

One of the main reasons for his erratic behaviour towards the 'Invincible' album (and also towards Sony Music in general) was that he insisted on getting the mechanical rights of his previous studio albums from Tommy Mottola.

Teddy Riley has also spoken about that, and others have also revealed many aspects of his erratic behaviour at that time (such as, that Michael Jackson used to curse a lot while the album was approaching its date of release in October 2001).
 
mj_frenzy;4277172 said:
Firstly, that was on excuse on his part, because from a medical point of view, generally a person who is older than a kid, he or she cannot catch a cold from the kid (due to the person’s immunity).
It works that way: a kid can catch a cold from an older person, or a kid can catch a cold from another kid.

Come on now … :doh:

“The BIG LoVE (Utah Better Identification of Germs-Longitudinal Viral Epidemiology) study, led by scientists at the University of Utah School of Medicine, finds that each bundle of joy puts the entire household at increased risk for infection with viruses that cause colds, flu, and other respiratory illnesses.
People living in childless households were infected with viruses on average 3-4 weeks during the year. In households with one child, that number jumped to 18 weeks, and for those with six children, there was virus in the household for up to 45 weeks out of the year.”

https://healthcare.utah.edu/publicaffairs/news/2015/08/08-05-15_Viruses-Thrive-In-Big-Families.php

I’m really not someone who tries to prove everyone on the internet wrong, but this is getting out of hand.
 
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mj_frenzy;4277172 said:
Firstly, that was on excuse on his part, because from a medical point of view, generally a person who is older than a kid, he or she cannot catch a cold from the kid (due to the person’s immunity).

It works that way: a kid can catch a cold from an older person, or a kid can catch a cold from another kid.

This is totally untrue and absolutely ridiculous. A virus can easily be transmitted from child to adult - colds and other illnesses do not discriminate from person to person at ALL. Secondly, Michael suffered from at least two autoimmune disorders (SLE and vitiligo) which means his immune system was not necessarily as strong as most average adults. He needed to take extra vitamins to combat this. I have no doubt at all that once he became the father of young children who got sick from time to time, he became easily infected as well. To say that Michael made this up as an excuse really makes me side-eye your entire post.
 
Mikky Dee;4277176 said:
This is totally untrue and absolutely ridiculous. A virus can easily be transmitted from child to adult - colds and other illnesses do not discriminate from person to person at ALL. Secondly, Michael suffered from at least two autoimmune disorders (SLE and vitiligo) which means his immune system was not necessarily as strong as most average adults. He needed to take extra vitamins to combat this. I have no doubt at all that once he became the father of young children who got sick from time to time, he became easily infected as well. To say that Michael made this up as an excuse really makes me side-eye your entire post.

Thanks, Mikky. This is getting really annoying. As if there weren’t enough people out there who claim that everything that came out of Michael’s mouth was a lie. I’m really upset right now.
 
ScreenOrigami;4277173 said:
Come on now … :doh:

“The BIG LoVE (Utah Better Identification of Germs-Longitudinal Viral Epidemiology) study, led by scientists at the University of Utah School of Medicine, finds that each bundle of joy puts the entire household at increased risk for infection with viruses that cause colds, flu, and other respiratory illnesses.
People living in childless households were infected with viruses on average 3-4 weeks during the year. In households with one child, that number jumped to 18 weeks, and for those with six children, there was virus in the household for up to 45 weeks out of the year.”

https://healthcare.utah.edu/publicaffairs/news/2015/08/08-05-15_Viruses-Thrive-In-Big-Families.php

I’m really not someone who tries to prove everyone on the internet wrong, but this is getting out of hand.

Mikky Dee;4277176 said:
This is totally untrue and absolutely ridiculous. A virus can easily be transmitted from child to adult - colds and other illnesses do not discriminate from person to person at ALL. Secondly, Michael suffered from at least two autoimmune disorders (SLE and vitiligo) which means his immune system was not necessarily as strong as most average adults. He needed to take extra vitamins to combat this. I have no doubt at all that once he became the father of young children who got sick from time to time, he became easily infected as well. To say that Michael made this up as an excuse really makes me side-eye your entire post.

Kids' immune systems are weaker, whereas adults’ immune systems are more (or fully) developed and thus stronger.

So, it is far less likely for an adult to catch a cold from a kid than a kid from an adult (or a kid from another kid).

And even if Michael Jackson was telling the truth about that (that he would catch a lot of time colds from his kids during that period), then a legitimate question arises here:

Why did he not take certain medicines or did he not use certain herbal remedies that can prevent a person from catching colds, considering that he had to stay healthy and away from colds because of his work on such an important project?

I addressed that issue which, given all that turmoil regarding those recording sessions at the time, looks more like an excuse on his part.
 
Anyone can catch a cold. it's doesn't matter if the person is old or young or a kid or adult. germs exists. also not everyone immune system is strong. this goes for young,old,kid, or adult.
 
mj_frenzy;4277184 said:
Kids' immune systems are weaker, whereas adults’ immune systems are more (or fully) developed and thus stronger.

So, it is far less likely for an adult to catch a cold from a kid than a kid from an adult (or a kid from another kid).

And even if Michael Jackson was telling the truth about that (that he would catch a lot of time colds from his kids during that period), then a legitimate question arises here:

Why did he not take certain medicines or did he not use certain herbal remedies that can prevent a person from catching colds, considering that he had to stay healthy and away from colds because of his work on such an important project?

I addressed that issue which, given all that turmoil regarding those recording sessions at the time, looks more like an excuse on his part.

Your immune system seems to be fact resistant. :laughing:

Sorry, but I’m outta here now. This is ridiculous.
 
mj_frenzy;4277184 said:
Kids' immune systems are weaker, whereas adults’ immune systems are more (or fully) developed and thus stronger.

So, it is far less likely for an adult to catch a cold from a kid than a kid from an adult (or a kid from another kid).
Parents are exposed to the illnesses their kids pick up all the time, and the common cold and flu are examples of viruses that always change, so you cannot become fully immune to them. Plus, young parents tend to experience more stress and enjoy less sleep, all of which makes them more susceptible to illness.

Why did he not take certain medicines or did he not use certain herbal remedies that can prevent a person from catching colds, considering that he had to stay healthy and away from colds because of his work on such an important project?
How do you know he did not try?
 
NatureCriminal7896;4277188 said:
Everyone has their own opinions but sometimes I feel mj_frenzy is a troll sometimes.

Opinions are opinions, facts are facts. And especially in Michael’s case, it’s important to get the facts straight and indicate opinions clearly as such. If we can’t get this right on a fan forum, how can we expect the outside world to get it right?
 
ScreenOrigami;4277189 said:
Opinions are opinions, facts are facts. And especially in Michael’s case, it’s important to get the facts straight and indicate opinions clearly as such. If we can’t get this right on a fan forum, how can we expect the outside world to get it right?

Yeah your right. that; is important. like you said especially in Michael case. because you know people love to twist things up when it comes to him.
 
this is no hate to mj_frenzy in anyway but you need to tell people where you get your info so we know that these info are true. you know the world is when it comes to Michael so please show us your info.
 
NatureCriminal7896;4277191 said:
this is no hate to mj_frenzy in anyway but you need to tell people where you get your info so we know that these info are true. you know the world is when it comes to Michael so please show us your info.

After their further claims about colds, completely ignoring the article about that scientific study I linked, I don’t expect that to happen. :laughing:
 
mj_frenzy;4276534 said:
English singer Tony Mortimer (and former member of the English band East 17) claimed that Michael Jackson was about to release in Europe the ‘Earth Song’ single a year earlier (in November 1994), but the huge chart and commercial success of the band’s ‘Stay Another Day’ single in Europe made Michael Jackson delay the single release of his ‘Earth Song’ for one year (November 1995).

If Tony Mortimer is telling the truth about that, then this clearly indicates that the ‘HIStory’ album was originally about to get a release in 1994, with a different order of commercially released singles.
But why do you believe this person? How could he know this anyway? And MJ was so afraid of this boyband he not only delayed the ES single but the whole album?

Do you realise anyone can claim such thing to boost their own importance?

Electro;4276537 said:
This probably originates from the time that the Brit Awards Jarvis Cocker "incident" generated headlines in the UK tabloids for weeks, so every little Earth Song anecdote (especially not in favour of Michael) was welcome.
Cocker was so brave to go "against the establishment" he chose the safest target never really backed by said "establishment". :rolleyes: What was he doing at the Brit Awards anyway if he was so against such things? The epitome of fake woke before it was a thing.
 
I realized we are talking about colds here so here's my example. Im an adult and I catch colds all the Time (5 times a year sometimes). So, my immune system is like a child or he's dead.
 
ScreenOrigami;4277178 said:
Thanks, Mikky. This is getting really annoying. As if there weren’t enough people out there who claim that everything that came out of Michael’s mouth was a lie. I’m really upset right now.

It's true. I catch colds all the time and I'm an adult.
 
mj_frenzy;4277082 said:
‘Speechless’ was recorded in March (2000), while ‘Don’t Walk Away’ was recorded nearly a year later (April, 2001).

‘Privacy’ was recorded in late 1999, not in 2000-2001.

‘Cry’ and ‘Break Of Dawn’ were two of the earliest songs that Michael Jackson recorded (both in 1998), and these two were among the first songs that he presented to Sony Music for evaluation.

Bruce Swedien in mid-2000 (summer) was given the green light to begin the mixing process of songs for that album, which included among others also the following ones: ‘You Rock My World’, ’Speechless’, ‘We’ve Had Enough’, ‘Xscape’, ‘Blue Gangsta’, ‘A Place With No Name’, ‘Break Of Dawn’, ‘Cry’, ‘She Was Loving Me’.

Then, Michael Jackson started to behave in an irrational way while working on that album.

He appeared not to care enough about its progress, while he used to be for long periods absent from important recording sessions, leaving his multiple teams of producers and songwriters to work on (or finish) many tracks for that album.

Also, my information has it that the unheard, nearly finished/finished songs from the ‘Invincible’ era in general are nearly one hundred.

Interesting to hear, because now I just read the book Xscape Origins by Damien Shields and he wrote that Teddy Riley actually joined in the production from Summer/Fall 2000. I thought first he was with Michael from the beginning of Invincible session and also produced x number of tracks by mid-2000.

But judging from that it seems that Teddy and Michael focused on producing tracks from existing demo material made by other musicians. Which is evident with HCW, 2W and WH. Shout must have also been coming from existing material since the chorus was almost the same from Isleys Brothers song (don't remember the name on it). DWA was probably an original song that was produced from scratch but I could be wrong.
 
ChrisC;4276572 said:
Was a Christmas #1 in the United Kingdom (although highly coveted in the UK at the time) really so important to international megastar Michael Jackson? There is simply no way it's true, for a multitude of reasons.

Tony just said he heard that. Whoever he heard it from made it up.

ozemouze;4277200 said:
But why do you believe this person? How could he know this anyway? And MJ was so afraid of this boyband he not only delayed the ES single but the whole album?

Do you realise anyone can claim such thing to boost their own importance?

To claim something in order to boost your own importance does not necessarily mean that what you claim is not true (like, Tony Mortimer’s claims about that).

Also, when it comes to such a highly chart-oriented artist like Michael Jackson, then anything is possible.

It is quite possible that Michael Jackson felt threatened by the phenomenal chart and commercial success (in Europe) of the band’s ‘Stay Another Day’ single at that time, so he might have changed his plans about the timing of the release of the ‘Earth Song’ single, or even about the ‘HIStory’ album in general.

Remember that Michael Jackson had some really bad experiences in the past when his singles, or even his albums, were knocked out of the charts by other artists/bands.

Like, what the American rock band Nirvana did to him few years before, when the band’s ‘Nevermind’ album knocked his ‘Dangerous’ album out of the Billboard Top 200 albums chart category (on January 11th, 1992).

That particular case in 1992 came as a shock to Michael Jackson, when he witnessed his ‘Dangerous’ album to lose the top position because of the ‘Nevermind’ album.

Keep in mind also that international megastars (like Michael Jackson) are most of time highly insecure as artists, and also in Michael Jackson’s case he along with the record company used to invest a lot of money for marketing purposes in the ‘90s in order to try to secure high chart and commercial success (because that success would allow them to recoup a big part of these marketing expenses).
 
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