Things That You Believe Weren't Necessary/Didn't Add Value to MJ's Performances

Re: Things that did not add value to his performance

Michael puts his arms out and has the people surrounding him come up and touch/hug him like he's their saviour, with those fake amazement/relief expressions, all while wearing white and backlit. Making himself out to look like a saviour is not "spiritual" it is messianic.

I already found this ridiculous when I was a kid myself.
Compare this with the bad tour where he just invited kids on stage to dance together, it's much more fun and loose and simply sympathetic.
 
Re: Things that did not add value to his performance

Getting hugged and smothered on stage during YANA while continuing lip synching. Very embarrassing imo
The more I think about HIStory tour , the more I hate it, don't hate me for it.
 
Re: Things that did not add value to his performance

All this stuff is what makes his shows fun. I know it is all silly, but they add an element to the concert that other artists don't.

He can just come out and perform songs, but to me I enjoy these events happening during the concerts.

Remember that before youtube, concerts were once in a lifetime in person experiences. Michael's intent was not for people to be able to watch him do these "routines" at multiple locations. This was supposed to be an in person fun part of the show.

Thank You. :clapping:
 
ScreenOrigami;4289237 said:
Jarvis or whatever his name was, the dude who exposed his butt that day, didn’t seem to be educated on these matters. :D

I wouldn't rule out he was just drunk that night, the critics of course loved his little "performance" and tried to make it into something more profound.

terrell;4289241 said:
I see no problem with any of it. Remember not everyone is able to see a MJ show twice. Also, when he did "she is out of my life", he use to sit on the edge of the stage but he could not later. He would get pulled off.

That's a good point. After some point he became way too successful and had to choose between doing shows in arenas and perform to a wide audience all around the world, or in smaller, more intimate environment where he could be spontaneous but more people would have been excluded then those who could attend. He chose the first option and even though it's a pity we don't really have that latter kind of show I'm sure there's also a lot of fans who are grateful for the opportunity to be able to see him perform.

Toby34;4289255 said:
All this stuff is what makes his shows fun. I know it is all silly, but they add an element to the concert that other artists don't.

Another good point. Some things can be seen as silly/not convincing on record which actually works really well and have a totally different effect during the show when you're in the audience.

JichaelMackson;4289274 said:
I already found this ridiculous when I was a kid myself.
Compare this with the bad tour where he just invited kids on stage to dance together, it's much more fun and loose and simply sympathetic.

It's perfectly fine to not like the performance, but it shouldn't be taken out of its cultural context either:

terrell;4289243 said:
That kind of thing is done in many black churches.

ScreenOrigami;4289268 said:
I mostly know rock shows, so for example Iron Maiden always bring their huge mascot monster Eddie in one form or another, and Alice Cooper has a real horror show going on, complete with guillotines and stuff.

Sounds like fun. :D
 
ozemouze;4289287 said:
Sounds like fun. :D

It is! Here’s an amateur recording. So, yeah, I’d say over-the-top theatrical performances with a dash of magic tricks sprinkled in are not exclusive to MJ. :D

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/yXw_O-3IX08" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I’m also just posting this video as an example because someone said they don’t have anything to compare MJ’s stage shows to. I’m not intending to divert the thread. We’ll be right back on topic! ;)

At the end of the day, those kind of gimmicks wear off after a while, so I agree it’s not something you’d necessarily want to see for 10 shows in a row, but as someone has pointed out, usually you’d go and see one show and then that’s it. Or, as in Alice Cooper’s show, the gimmick sticks and his fans expect him to do it on every tour since the early 1970’s. As far as I know, Alice was the first to incorporate magic tricks into his stage shows.

Nowadays, in the YouTube age, we have the luxury to watch all those concerts over and over, and particularly with the HIStory tour I can see why people don’t enjoy some elements of the performance so much anymore after they’ve seen them in 10 different shows. But that’s just not how they were intended to be watched when they were created. Instead, you’d probably go home after that one show in disbelief that he really brought a giant tank on stage for that one song. So, I think we have to keep the context in mind when we talk about these things.

ozemouze;4289287 said:
I wouldn't rule out he was just drunk that night, the critics of course loved his little "performance" and tried to make it into something more profound.

Yup. No doubt he wouldn’t have pulled it off if he hadn’t been drunk. :D
 
ScreenOrigami;4289250 said:
And if you zoom out and look at the whole stage act at the Brits, it essentially looks like a living painting of an apocalyptic scenario. Just as if a painting in a museum came to life. Personally, I like that whole performance a lot. There&#8217;s a version on YouTube where they cut out the butt-dude, so that&#8217;s actually nice to watch. :)

Wow, thanks for pointing it out! I love these kind of things, I even attended an iconography class at the Uni, so I'm sort of embarrassed I didn't notice. I guess I tend to avoid the performance because of the Jarvis dude :/, but now that we have a butt-dude free version (clever idea! :D) I'll search for that.

ScreenOrigami;4289293 said:
Or, as in Alice Cooper&#8217;s show, the gimmick sticks and his fans expect him to do it on every tour since the early 1970&#8217;s.

:hysterical: Those screams :D (I guess it came from the audience as well, not just from the performers). Now this seems typically that kind of thing that can really work in the middle of a concert, but might look silly on record. But even on record it's obvious the audience is in for the game and plays along with it. Personally it made me want to attend an Alice Cooper concert, it must be fun and great mood. :D
 
Last edited:
Re: Things that did not add value to his performance

Wow, thanks for pointing it out! I love these kind of things, I even attended an iconography class at the Uni, so I'm sort of embarrassed I didn't notice. I guess I tend to avoid the performance because of the Jarvis dude :/, but now that we have a butt-dude free version (clever idea! :D) I'll search for that.

I think the butt-dude free version is just the official broadcast that went on air a couple of days after the event. So they had time to edit him out. :)
 
Re: Things that did not add value to his performance

I already found this ridiculous when I was a kid myself.
Compare this with the bad tour where he just invited kids on stage to dance together, it's much more fun and loose and simply sympathetic.

Michael puts his arms out and has the people surrounding him come up and touch/hug him like he's their savior, with those fake amazement/relief expressions, all while wearing white and backlit. Making himself out to look like a savior is not "spiritual" it is messianic.

Okay i saw the performances on youtube. yeah that was pretty mess up. I understand Michael was spiritual. but that was too much. this probably why he have so many crazy fans see him as a angel. it was nice but way too much.

 
Re: Things that did not add value to his performance

Compare this with the bad tour where he just invited kids on stage to dance together, it's much more fun and loose and simply sympathetic.

I agree. that would of been a best better choice.

Okay i saw the performances on youtube. yeah that was pretty mess up. I understand Michael was spiritual. but that was too much. this probably why he have so many crazy fans see him as a angel. it was nice but way too much.


MITM was more spiritual and better performance then this. sorry Michael I love you but that, that was too much.
 
About this Earth Song "foul-up," I'll just leave this text here, from the book "Earth Song: Inside Michael Jackson's Magnum Opus," by Joseph Vogel:

Because of the religious symbolism and the passionate response of the crowd (audience members are often shown sobbing), perhaps the most common criticism associated with “Earth Song” was that Jackson, or the song (or both), were “messianic.” This label gained more currency after a performance at the 1996 BRIT Awards in which Pulp singer, Jarvis Cocker, stormed the stage to protest what he perceived as Jackson’s “offensive” Christ-like portrayal.

This reading of Jackson’s performance(s)—which has been recycled by numerous journalists and critics—is staggeringly literal-minded. There is no question Jackson used iconic messianic gestures in his performances. What isn’t taken into consideration, however, is how, as a dancer/performance artist, his body acted as his canvas. He used specific gestures and symbolism to communicate meaning and express emotion. Would a critic claim Michelangelo is “messianic” and “narcissistic” for painting Jesus on the cross? What is far more interesting is considering how Jackson is deploying such symbols and gestures.

“When Jackson embodies a particular archetypal stance,” notes Constance Pierce, “his physical body transfigures into a kind of symbolic, elegant calligraphy wherein the Divine may channel gestures of explosive emotion or intimate compassion. The artist becomes shamanic, taking on our massive cumulative “shadow” and sweeping it whole into the light.

Jackson, then, uses messianic gestures, not because he thinks he is the messiah, but because of what such symbols can express and communicate. It is not about him personally, but how his body can translate the emotions of the song.
 
Re: Things that did not add value to his performance

Michael puts his arms out and has the people surrounding him come up and touch/hug him like he's their saviour, with those fake amazement/relief expressions, all while wearing white and backlit. Making himself out to look like a saviour is not "spiritual" it is messianic.

It's embarrassing is what it is.
 
M.J. Content;4289302 said:
About this Earth Song "foul-up," I'll just leave this text here, from the book "Earth Song: Inside Michael Jackson's Magnum Opus," by Joseph Vogel:

Because of the religious symbolism and the passionate response of the crowd (audience members are often shown sobbing), perhaps the most common criticism associated with &#8220;Earth Song&#8221; was that Jackson, or the song (or both), were &#8220;messianic.&#8221; This label gained more currency after a performance at the 1996 BRIT Awards in which Pulp singer, Jarvis Cocker, stormed the stage to protest what he perceived as Jackson&#8217;s &#8220;offensive&#8221; Christ-like portrayal.

This reading of Jackson&#8217;s performance(s)&#8212;which has been recycled by numerous journalists and critics&#8212;is staggeringly literal-minded. There is no question Jackson used iconic messianic gestures in his performances. What isn&#8217;t taken into consideration, however, is how, as a dancer/performance artist, his body acted as his canvas. He used specific gestures and symbolism to communicate meaning and express emotion. Would a critic claim Michelangelo is &#8220;messianic&#8221; and &#8220;narcissistic&#8221; for painting Jesus on the cross? What is far more interesting is considering how Jackson is deploying such symbols and gestures.

&#8220;When Jackson embodies a particular archetypal stance,&#8221; notes Constance Pierce, &#8220;his physical body transfigures into a kind of symbolic, elegant calligraphy wherein the Divine may channel gestures of explosive emotion or intimate compassion. The artist becomes shamanic, taking on our massive cumulative &#8220;shadow&#8221; and sweeping it whole into the light.

Jackson, then, uses messianic gestures, not because he thinks he is the messiah, but because of what such symbols can express and communicate. It is not about him personally, but how his body can translate the emotions of the song.

This. It&#8217;s a theatrical performance, and that needs to be taken into account when talking about it. To claim MJ was likening himself to Jesus or something like that is to completely misrepresent him as a person.
 
Last edited:
Re: Things that did not add value to his performance

Also the people that say he cried at the end of the song because Brad messed up, when in actuality he always cried at the end of the song.
The one that annoys me most about that are the people who insist MJ yells "job gone" at Brad, even though it's 1 of about a 1000 times that he sang "doggone" during live shows.:doh::D
 
Re: Things that did not add value to his performance

- The excessive length of "Workin' Day And Night" and "Shake Your Body" in every tour he performed those songs

- Performing the "Off The Wall medley" during the HIStory Tour with a pre-recorded voice from almost 20 years before

- Those useless giant speakers at the end of "Black Or White" during the HIStory Tour

- The fake cry during "SOOML" or "I'll Be There"

- The tent in the middle of the stage during the 2nd leg of the Bad Tour (who the hell thought that it was a great idea?)
 
M.J. Content;4289302 said:
About this Earth Song "foul-up," I'll just leave this text here, from the book "Earth Song: Inside Michael Jackson's Magnum Opus," by Joseph Vogel:

Because of the religious symbolism and the passionate response of the crowd (audience members are often shown sobbing), perhaps the most common criticism associated with &#8220;Earth Song&#8221; was that Jackson, or the song (or both), were &#8220;messianic.&#8221; This label gained more currency after a performance at the 1996 BRIT Awards in which Pulp singer, Jarvis Cocker, stormed the stage to protest what he perceived as Jackson&#8217;s &#8220;offensive&#8221; Christ-like portrayal.

This reading of Jackson&#8217;s performance(s)&#8212;which has been recycled by numerous journalists and critics&#8212;is staggeringly literal-minded. There is no question Jackson used iconic messianic gestures in his performances. What isn&#8217;t taken into consideration, however, is how, as a dancer/performance artist, his body acted as his canvas. He used specific gestures and symbolism to communicate meaning and express emotion. Would a critic claim Michelangelo is &#8220;messianic&#8221; and &#8220;narcissistic&#8221; for painting Jesus on the cross? What is far more interesting is considering how Jackson is deploying such symbols and gestures.

&#8220;When Jackson embodies a particular archetypal stance,&#8221; notes Constance Pierce, &#8220;his physical body transfigures into a kind of symbolic, elegant calligraphy wherein the Divine may channel gestures of explosive emotion or intimate compassion. The artist becomes shamanic, taking on our massive cumulative &#8220;shadow&#8221; and sweeping it whole into the light.

Jackson, then, uses messianic gestures, not because he thinks he is the messiah, but because of what such symbols can express and communicate. It is not about him personally, but how his body can translate the emotions of the song.
You can't compare someone painting a picture of literal Jesus to what Michael did. The fact they're even trying to use that as a justification is hilarious. Michael made himself out to be a saviour and it was pure cringe. It's the same uncomfortable megalomania vibe as the HIStory promo and having paintings done of himself as a king, etc.
 
SoCav;4289308 said:
The one that annoys me most about that are the people who insist MJ yells "job gone" at Brad, even though it's 1 of about a 1000 times that he sang "doggone" during live shows.:doh::D

Oh “job’s gone” is infuriating, I blame people who make MJ fail complications trying too hard to find anything wrong with his concerts &#128514;
 
Re: Things that did not add value to his performance

- The excessive length of "Workin' Day And Night" and "Shake Your Body" in every tour he performed those songs

- Performing the "Off The Wall medley" during the HIStory Tour with a pre-recorded voice from almost 20 years before

- Those useless giant speakers at the end of "Black Or White" during the HIStory Tour

- The fake cry during "SOOML" or "I'll Be There"

- The tent in the middle of the stage during the 2nd leg of the Bad Tour (who the hell thought that it was a great idea?)

:lmao:
 
Re: Things that did not add value to his performance

Sorry guys but, while Jarvis Cocker was completely out of line and shameful in his actions, I agree with the majority of people on here. It was beyond cringe and dare I say, false?

I love Michael Jackson but, this is an example of how naive he could be. With what happened in 1993 and the public scrutiny and focus, how he thought this was a good idea, in front of a drug fueled audience of Britpop musicians, who looked at the likes of his generation as past it, was beyond anything I'll ever understand.
 
Re: Things that did not add value to his performance

- I always found the fake cry during I Just Can't Stop Loving You and I'll Be There cringe.

- Speaking of cringe, Brit 96 & History Tour Earth Song performances. Extremely embarrassing.

- Inviting a crazy and obsessed female fan on stage for YANA performance during History Tour.
 
Nite Line;4289334 said:
- I always found the fake cry during I Just Can't Stop Loving You and I'll Be There cringe.

- Inviting a crazy and obsessed female fan on stage for YANA performance during History Tour.

Did you mean SOOML? BTW inviting a crazy and obsessed female fan on stage for SOOML during Dangerous Tour wasn't cringe? :tongue: I think these kinds of things have different effect when you're actually in the audience. Plus it can maybe depend on your gender too, as most of my fellow female fans usually like that part. :rofl:

What I didn't like and was quite disappointed about was that the tracklists rarely changed overall, and starting from Dangerous Tour very few new songs were included, while some of the greatest older songs (Dirty Diana, MITM) were dropped. I also missed the spontaneity, but in a way this was the price of arena concerts in a world tour. Like terrel said, he was much more spontaneous and approachable during the Jacksons era.

The lip-synching during TV performances was unnecessary and unacceptable too, coming from MJ's misinterpretation of perfectionism I think (I wouldn't like to talk about the live shows in this context, sure it's a pity but the health issues can't be overlooked, even though they weren't the only reason). But in the circumstances of a single performance there was no excuse for that.

I didn't like the "famous" MTV 95 performance. ¯\_(&#12484;)_/¯ Can't really explain why, I felt it just missed something, the sparkle? I was a bit surprised to see how well-loved it is in general. BTW I myself became a bit of a cynic in the mind-90s :D and sort of thought MJ personally owed me more, maybe that contributed to it.
 
Re: Things that did not add value to his performance

Did you mean SOOML? BTW inviting a crazy and obsessed female fan on stage for SOOML during Dangerous Tour wasn't cringe? :tongue: I think these kinds of things have different effect when you're actually in the audience. Plus it can maybe depend on your gender too, as most of my fellow female fans usually like that part. :rofl:

I agree with you.:laughing: lol. I don't see nothing wrong for a fan to go up stage to meet their idol. people been doing it before Michael. so cut him some slack Michael loved all his fans every race, gender, and background. :)
 
Re: Things that did not add value to his performance

You can't compare someone painting a picture of literal Jesus to what Michael did. The fact they're even trying to use that as a justification is hilarious. Michael made himself out to be a saviour and it was pure cringe. It's the same uncomfortable megalomania vibe as the HIStory promo and having paintings done of himself as a king, etc.

in my opinion I honestly had no problem Michael had paintings of him as a "king". through I agree with to see him as a savior were too much. I understand Michael was spiritual so it wouldn't bother me if he had spiritual things in his home because that was who he was but to make it seem like he savior was way too much. this is why we have so many crazy fans who thinks Michael was a angel etc. i don't think he shouldn't never portray himself that way. that why it cause so much disputable. Michael was a very straight forward disputable man. he did whatever he like it. through he did respect everyone.

with the history tour promo i always saw it as funny. some people did feel he did too much with it though. that was Michael for ya. some stuff he did to disputable. like the panther dance. talking about racism but dancing dirty. a very important topic.
 
Re: Things that did not add value to his performance

I love the HIStory promo, because that was a huge middle finger and F you to the people who said his career would be over after 1993.
 
Re: Things that did not add value to his performance

- Inviting a crazy and obsessed female fan on stage for YANA performance during History Tour.
Michael loved his fans, and that was one way of showing it and giving back some love. And giving someone a chance to go on stage with him is something huge for the fan. Nothing wrong with it. Besides, not all of them acted crazy. Also, why do you only mention HIStory tour when he did it on the Dangerous and Bad tours as well?
 
Last edited:
Re: Things that did not add value to his performance

I love the HIStory promo, because that was a huge middle finger and F you to the people who said his career would be over after 1993.

Okay you do got a point with that one. i never saw it that way.
 
Re: Things that did not add value to his performance

having paintings done of himself as a king

That was his private "interior design" choice though. Do I think it's kitsch and even ridiculous? Yes. Is it my business though? No. So I wouldn't bring this into the criticism of his work (I certainly wouldn't want anyone to criticize my silly decoration choices in my own home :D).

About the History teaser I agree with analogue, I don't think it meant to be taken too seriously anyway.
 
Re: Things that did not add value to his performance

I agree. whatever Michael did in his home was his thing and his personal life. why do we need to tell what not to do in his home or life? unless he was hurting someone which we know he never did.

that's like going to someone home and telling them i don't like your paintings because etc etc etc. that's rude. it's best not to visit their home anymore if you have problem what have in their home.

we tend to forget Michael was human and an adult (who was childlike in someways.) if Michael wanted paintings in his home as a "king". that was his thing. through like i said already him as savior was way too much and cause disputable. he should of keep that in his home not in the public to see him like a savior.
 
NatureCriminal7896;4289360 said:
to see him like a savior.

It was a theatrical performance. MJ did not see himself as a savior, just like Alice Cooper wasn&#8217;t really beheaded in his horror show.

What you see in the Brits performance is an enactment of an apocalyptic scenario. It&#8217;s theater. MJ on stage is not the same as Mike off stage.
 
We should also not forget that the performance served as a medium for Michael&#8217;s message in his short speech afterwards:

&#8220;Did you know that an area of tropical rainforest the size of six football fields is burned every minute, and destroyed? Did you know that 3 million children die every minute, and did you also know that every hour 300 children die from hunger? But I believe in us as a people, I know we can make a difference. I love you all, and I believe in all of you. I love you.&#8221;

Notice how he says &#8220;us as a people&#8221;? There&#8217;s nothing about him taking on a savior role or anything.
 
ScreenOrigami;4289363 said:
It was a theatrical performance. MJ did not see himself as a savior, just like Alice Cooper wasn’t really beheaded in his horror show.

What you see in the Brits performance is an enactment of an apocalyptic scenario. It’s theater. MJ on stage is not the same as Mike off stage.

:hysterical: I would still scream though. :D

[video=youtube;dKSJN3WWR3E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKSJN3WWR3E[/video]

;)
 
Back
Top