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This is it: State of choreography up to 6/24...

Remington Steele

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This might have been discussed before, not sure. But thinking about the choreography we saw in the movie, it seemed to me soooo much wasn't finished. Yet they (Payne AFAIR and maybe others) claimed the show was somewhat ready and they were about to travel to London in a few days.

To me it seems many things went wrong. When thinking of the choreography say in "Jam" or "Black or white", so much seems like the "first steps" and Michael trying a few things. Sure, you could argue Michael could just get back to his original performances and learn them in two to three days, but I don't think they planned to do this. I'm really astonihsed by the state of choreography of many songs in TII.
 
We haven´t seen the full rehearsals from the last days when Michael had it, and most things were on place.And they had some more days to work on.
I also guess it´s quite normal before the first show that you can think it looks like a mess but a few days later we can see a good show.
We saw a genius at work and his performances wasn´t in one piece, it was from different rehearsals to show us how he was working with it.
 
Jam was definatly complete!! keep in mind that they were only at staples for a short time, meaning they could not rehears the "toaster" and some staging until they got into that arena.. They had the platform (basic staging) at 'The Forum' but all the specialized things were not til Staples.. watch the back up dancers they were on point. Theres not alot of choreography when it comes to MJ's role in Jam most of it is Feel/free style with specific hits and gestures and sertain points which really needs very little work.. That goes wit Black Or White, The closest thing to MJ doing choreohraphy is when he stands near Darryl at the part "I'm not gonna live my life being a color" lol!! aside from that its only staging, which is even rehearsed and tweeked while on tour all the time..

From what we could see they were on point to what time they had.. They still had rehearsal left at Staples, then more actually at the 02.. everything was on the mark from what we can really see
 
We didn't see all the Staples footage, unfortunately. I was surprised at the amount of video they used from early rehearsals at The Forum, since naturally those would look more rough and incomplete.
 
I think you might be right to an extent, i think they were behind time and things were going to be rushed in the last two weeks, the shows should have been almost completely finished but this did not appear to be the case.
 
no, its just that they only showed us 12% of the footage that they actually shot!
 
Hm, this might be true, but Karen Faye said they barely finished one song in a rehearsal and the fact they got complete songs in TII is just clever editing...

@POV, interesting explanation regarding JAM and BOW, you're right!

Boy would I love to see the complete rehearsals from June 23rd and 24th... it wouldn't surprise me if Michael would stop in the middle of each song though. Maybe that's why they showed so little of it.
 
I think most where shot early in the rehearsals. Personally if they ever did a full rehearsal towards the 25th i would love to see the finished ones. I think the aspect of TII Film was based on how MJ conduct his rehearsals, with him getting into the move and stopping in songs to correct something.
 
Some songs definitely were rehearsed in Staples while they showed us footage from the Forum. For one, Dangerous was rehearsed (photo proof) along with Heal the World (according to accounts by Ortega). I Just Can't Stop Loving You was also done at Staples as per photos of the song with the background video/image. Stranger in Moscow was rehearsed at some point as well. We also haven't seen the full WBSS rehearsal from Staples.

My point is, several songs in the movie used early footage that didn't really fully portray the latest "version" of that particular performance. I think it's nearly impossible to determine how far along the show's development was by just watching the movie.
 
Remington Steele said:
Hm, this might be true, but Karen Faye said they barely finished one song in a rehearsal and the fact they got complete songs in TII is just clever editing...

@POV, interesting explanation regarding JAM and BOW, you're right!

Boy would I love to see the complete rehearsals from June 23rd and 24th... it wouldn't surprise me if Michael would stop in the middle of each song though. Maybe that's why they showed so little of it.
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We all know Karen Faye is prone to amateur dramatics, so I wouldn't take that comment too seriously.

Clever editing? What a ridiculous thing to say. Billie Jean, TDCAU, BorW and IJCSLY are all complete performances from one take. He doesn't look like he's struggling to me.
 
"What was Michael Jackson's state of mind 13 hours before he was pronounced dead?"

"He was happy, he was smiling, he was laughing with us," remembers Daniel Celebre, who was a principal dancer in the superstar's This Is It comeback tour.

Celebre had been rehearsing with Jackson in Los Angeles "for three months, eight hours a day and he always danced full out. His energy was amazing, man."

In fact, on June 24, the last day of Jackson's life, director Kenny Ortega staged the show and "we ran through the whole thing and finished at about 1:30 in the morning," Celebre, a dancer based in Toronto, recalled in an interview yesterday at the midtown BDX dance studio.

"The feeling was unbelievable. Michael was at the top of his game. People who had known him for years said he'd never danced better.

"We even ran `Thriller' for the first time in costume and the people from wardrobe were in the audience crying. They told us `You guys don't understand how amazing it looks.'"

When asked if Jackson seemed tired or under strain, Celebre shook his head emphatically. "Every day he looked fly, but that day, he was better than ever. He looked young, man. His form was so perfect."

Every evening Jackson and the dancers would say goodnight to each other. That night was no exception. "We always hugged. I said `Hey Mikey, I love you,' and he said, `I love you too, bro.'"
 
Here is another dancer

"During the final two rehearsals Jackson really kicked into gear, says Grant. "I guess he really felt it coming together. We all really felt it coming together in those last two rehearsals. It was just a different feeling those last two nights. Michael was very into it, very open-minded about things. He was just living on the stage. His whole vibe was just different. It was like he was really connecting with us and the music. It just felt done. It was like, 'OK, I can sleep tonight'. He gave you a warm feeling those last two days. We all left with a smile on our face."

He is also bemused by some of the choices that were made regarding what was and wasn't included in this is it dvd
"It's funny because those bits you see, he's not doing the full out still. There were times where he was really, really doing it, like full out. There are a lot of things that weren't shown in This Is It. I really don't know why that stuff was left out."
 
MIST said:
He is also bemused by some of the choices that were made regarding what was and wasn't included in this is it dvd
"It's funny because those bits you see, he's not doing the full out still. There were times where he was really, really doing it, like full out. There are a lot of things that weren't shown in This Is It. I really don't know why that stuff was left out."
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I remember reading this quote, after seeing the extra footage from the blu-ray DVD I have to say I agree, it looks as though they left a lot of good stuff out.
 
I saw a lot of "marking", not the full on "acting out", to come across the ramp into the last row of seats. That's totally normal in rehearsals. I also noticed Michael was doing his part but at the same time was observing left and right how things felt left and right of him. It's as if he has those 360 degree eyes that were scanning the stage all around him.

There's also a huge difference the way a performer would "switch" themselves on and off during an actual concert, just his face alone would have been 200 percent more intense. Just look at Smooth Criminal, he's looking around left and right, checking things etc. That's what rehearsals are for.

His facial expressions were always part of the deal- and part of the actual stage presence thing he had. He could switch that on or off at will, amazing to watch.
 
What annoys me about this whole thing is that people either:

1.) Lie to us (AEG)
Or
2.) Only tell part of the story (White Lie) (Kenny Ortega and most of TII crew)
Or
3.) Exaggerate way too Much (Karen Faye)



Anyway...........

I think they had what they needed to do in rehearsals and they were ready to move to London to do the dress rehearsals...........

The TII movie showed mainly songs that included the dancers (obvious exception is 'Dangerous')..........

Songs like Jam looked like they were desperate for a full dress rehearsal.....

The same goes for Dirty Diana and Thriller............

And we still need to see "omitted" songs from the film!!!!!!!!!
 
TII wasnt ready to go in 2 weeks clearly going by TII. Lightman was event built, in fact lots of sets werent ready. Michael usually has all this done months before actually going on tour.
 
When you watch the dangerous rehearsals and compare them to the TII rehearsals, it seemed to me that TII was more a far more complete show than dangerous. I have to say that i am not sure when the dangerous rehearsals were filmed.
 
How about Kenny's statement that he sometimes had to go to Michael's house and drag him out of bed to get him to go to rehearsals???......The footage that we see in TII have you ever asked yourself WHY Michael is running around singing and dancing..yet..he has all those coats on???....HE was cold ..while everyone else was hot. I am sorry I dont mean to derail this thread..but....if we are going to observe the TII footage..we have to look at it with open eyes...now I am not saying that Michael was not looking wonderful at times..however..there WAS alot of peicing together of rehersals to get somtimes 1 song finished. Also have you asked ourself this question..how in the world was all the stageing stuff suppose to be put on a boat and arrived over in the UK in 13 days??..Those are Kenny's words....he said..."Everthing will be put on a ship and and brought over there and set up" Now it would of taken atleast 3 weeks to a month to get that stuff shipped over there by sea...and thats not even talking about getting it set up. So when I look at the TII footage..I see the opposite of what these people are trying to get us to believe.
 
MattyJam said:
He doesn't look like he's struggling to me.
Click to expand...

Hm, at times he does to me... e.g. in break in TDCAU, he really looks tense and very exhausted.

@xthunderx2 - good point regarding him being cold... didn't ever think about that. Regarding shipment, I do think it's possible to do it that fast... maybe they even didn't mean by ship, but by plane anyway.
 
Krshna28 said:
What annoys me about this whole thing is that people either:

1.) Lie to us (AEG)
Or
2.) Only tell part of the story (White Lie) (Kenny Ortega and most of TII crew)
Or
3.) Exaggerate way too Much (Karen Faye)



Anyway...........

I think they had what they needed to do in rehearsals and they were ready to move to London to do the dress rehearsals...........

The TII movie showed mainly songs that included the dancers (obvious exception is 'Dangerous')..........

Songs like Jam looked like they were desperate for a full dress rehearsal.....

The same goes for Dirty Diana and Thriller............

And we still need to see "omitted" songs from the film!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

I agree with what you are saying about the dancers, they seem to be very fake when talking about Michael or as you said just telling part of the story, it might be the fact that they are still under contract and as such are still working for AEG.
 
Dangerous Incorporated said:
TII wasnt ready to go in 2 weeks clearly going by TII. Lightman was event built, in fact lots of sets werent ready. Michael usually has all this done months before actually going on tour.
Click to expand...


Really? I thought they said Lightman would be getting it's final preparations done in London, and it would've already been there when Michael & co. arrived.
 
Remember that during this time Michael was working with a videogameprojekt, making plans for 2 new albums -not only the songs but who he wanted to work with and he got someone to look at the music he had done for a classical album.There was a calendar, he was looking at the OPUS book .
An average person in his age would probably look more tired than him.

He hadn´t done concerts for a long time and was probably struggling with the choreography himself in the beginning and was working with it at home before he worked with the dancers.
He had to learn lyrics to many songs again- I know he had sang them a lot of times but I don´t think he had done it many times after his last concerts.When you get older you forget things that you haven´t done for a long time.I´m not saying that he totally forgot the songs but that he forgot lyrics here and there and that´s normal.I guess he had to get into the right feeling too not just a good singer and dancer but to be king of pop, the feeling that you are the greatest entertainer or you can say "it"
It seems he got that feeling in the end

The dancers had a contract with AEG and perhaps they couldn´t say anything bad.But look at their eyes when they are talking about Michael.They were the best dancer available for the shows and someone said he learned more from Michael Jackson during these months than during his whole life before.
They admired him for what he had done before but also for what he was doing in the rehearsals.
Look at them when they are watching him rehearsing Billie Jean.

I would love to see more of the footage from the last days,just to see him again and to understand more about how the shows were going to look like.I want to see his best dancing.

For the clothes , you get colder when you are older and when you are skinny.
The dancers were much younger-and warmer.
 
xthunderx2 said:
How about Kenny's statement that he sometimes had to go to Michael's house and drag him out of bed to get him to go to rehearsals???......The footage that we see in TII have you ever asked yourself WHY Michael is running around singing and dancing..yet..he has all those coats on???....HE was cold ..while everyone else was hot. I am sorry I dont mean to derail this thread..but....if we are going to observe the TII footage..we have to look at it with open eyes...now I am not saying that Michael was not looking wonderful at times..however..there WAS alot of peicing together of rehersals to get somtimes 1 song finished. Also have you asked ourself this question..how in the world was all the stageing stuff suppose to be put on a boat and arrived over in the UK in 13 days??..Those are Kenny's words....he said..."Everthing will be put on a ship and and brought over there and set up" Now it would of taken atleast 3 weeks to a month to get that stuff shipped over there by sea...and thats not even talking about getting it set up. So when I look at the TII footage..I see the opposite of what these people are trying to get us to believe.
Click to expand...


i totally agree with what you're saying...but about Michael being cold....i don't know exactly what that means, because we see him in Bad rehearsals wearing this big winter jacket....so, that doesn't make sense to me.....:scratch:
 
AnnieRUOkay89 said:
Really? I thought they said Lightman would be getting it's final preparations done in London, and it would've already been there when Michael & co. arrived.
Click to expand...

Even if this is correct, MJ would probably only get 1 dress rehearsal as Light Man. This is not how MJ usually operates. MJ is usually prepared well in advance.
 
I would say in comparison to the Dangerous Rehearsals it's significantly more patchwork. But it is by most accounts more ambitious. The staging was changed for starters: O2 vs Staples. On top of that, it was a lot of impromptu motions from MJ; the only choreography was Thriller, Smooth Criminal and the like.
 
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