What could MJ's estate do to make you happy right now?

I don't ever want them to release his short films again in any way. with the way they edited/ruined some of them on the DVD release, what's the point? if it's gonna be like that, quality don't mean anything, really. I don't care how good the quality is, if the videos are not the way they were originally made. the problem is not that fans don't complain enough about the quality, but that they don't complain enough about the fact that they had edited some of those videos heavily

If not the quality, they'd use the wrong version. The Blood on the Dance Floor situation on Vision is absolutely pathetic and a completely careless and infuriating error.
 
Ok ok...i do recall all of this....because in the closet has a green spec to pop up also. Ive never in my whole 25years noticed a bolt of lighting on billie jean. I hate the hoo was gone from jam. They need to do this right & add captain eo & the original ghost(35min) & they could've added something better than enjoy yourself on disc 3....am i missing something they should add?
 
If not the quality, they'd use the wrong version. The Blood on the Dance Floor situation on Vision is absolutely pathetic and a completely careless and infuriating error.
Always wondered why they didn't release the original version & took out effects for earth song. Its alot of small changes they did that were big to me. Big disappointment but i think the biggest is that they never released it on blu ray & then lied about the restoration of them
 
Idk personally most of the changes have never really bothered me? Only one that's really bothered me is the use of a remix of Blood on the Dance Floor in place of the original song.

After all, we have no idea if Michael and/or the director approved/disapproved of these changes, but even then it wouldn't be the first time Michael's altered a product post-release (i.e. the mixes on Bad).

& honestly rwy looked a bit upscaled on spikes otw yet rwy is the only video he didn't use the original film to for moonwalker

That's because Rock With You and DSTYGE were shot on tape, therefore we can't have it any clearer than standard definition. On top of that, Spike Lee stylistically chooses to crop all of the 4:3 footage to 16:9, effectively zooming in and making it look even worse.
 
Idk personally most of the changes have never really bothered me? Only one that's really bothered me is the use of a remix of Blood on the Dance Floor in place of the original song.

After all, we have no idea if Michael and/or the director approved/disapproved of these changes, but even then it wouldn't be the first time Michael's altered a product post-release (i.e. the mixes on Bad).



That's because Rock With You and DSTYGE were shot on tape, therefore we can't have it any clearer than standard definition. On top of that, Spike Lee stylistically chooses to crop all of the 4:3 footage to 16:9, effectively zooming in and making it look even worse.
OMG I HATE WHEN HE DOES THAT. I feel exactly how Michael felt about James Brown...."i was so mad because i couldn't see his feet". Its like he steals videos with logos on it & just zooms in.
Btw i didn't know those videos were shot on tape & how did you know that? Not saying your lying because it makes since why they look how they look on moonwalker vs everything else.
 
Saaaaaay Does anyone know why say say say & she's out of my life wasn't in the retrospective for moonwalker with everything else even tho he shot videos for it because human nature obviously wasn't official?? He could've had used pyt imo
 
We need this
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To look like this
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& this
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I wouldn't say heavily but if you could....explain to me the differences in visions & history vol I & II? & if its done a bit better than warner bros release then I'm on board...well i am regardless. & honestly rwy looked a bit upscaled on spikes otw yet rwy is the only video he didn't use the original film to for moonwalker
the Gone To Soon video is completely different than how the original one was on Dangerous The Short Films. I would say that is heavily edited!
the angel scenes from the You Are Not Alone video are completely edited out
Will You Be There has some different footage throughout the video that wasn't in the original+they have edited out the tear running down his cheek, towards the end

I think there's more, can't think of them right now

and this....
If not the quality, they'd use the wrong version. The Blood on the Dance Floor situation on Vision is absolutely pathetic and a completely careless and infuriating error.

also, not the full version of Ghosts and they forgot to include the HIStory video. I know it's a remix they used for the video back when it came out, and it has never been released. but still, they could have included it, as they also included other videos that's never been released but only shown on TV
and why they didn't include the full version of Smooth Criminal, but they include the full short film for Speed Demon? :doh:

and oh yeah, this!!
I hate the hoo was gone from jam.
and there's more, I'm sure. just can't think of them right now. though it's minor details, it still kinda ruins the video when it's not completely like it was original made
 
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the Gone To Soon video is completely different than how the original one was on Dangerous The Short Films. I would say that is heavily edited!
the angel scenes from the You Are Not Alone video are completely edited out
Will You Be There has some different footage throughout the video that wasn't in the original+they have edited out the tear running down his cheek, towards the end

I think there's more, can't think of them right now

and this....


also, not the full version of Ghosts and they forgot to include the HIStory video. I know it's a remix they used for the video back when it came out, and it has never been released. but still, they could have included it, as they also included other videos that's never been released but only shown on TV
and why they didn't include the full 40 minutes of Smooth Criminal, but they include the full short film for Speed Demon? :doh:

Kmsl. They might have did good leaving off history,cry,mitm(moonwalker version better with mj performing live),& gone too soon. He's not in any of those anyway. I kinda can do without those, love the music,just not a fan of those shorts. Speed Demon & smooth criminal is just like....huh why would they do that. I don't understand why new intros but not 1 bit of restoration. Some YouTubers like ultimist are very good & look better than what the estate released. Its 2016 & we still have over 40 mjvidz in standard form as they came out & yea u notice so many things after you've seen it over 100x
 
Kmsl. They might have did good leaving off history,cry,mitm(moonwalker version better with mj performing live),& gone too soon. He's not in any of those anyway. I kinda can do without those, love the music,just not a fan of those shorts. Speed Demon & smooth criminal is just like....huh why would they do that. I don't understand why new intros but not 1 bit of restoration. Some YouTubers like ultimist are very good & look better than what the estate released. Its 2016 & we still have over 40 mjvidz in standard form as they came out & yea u notice so many things after you've seen it over 100x

I don't know what's funny about what I wrote? huh?
the mitm video is on vision, the original MUSIC VIDEO, not the Moonwalker version. and Cry is on it too. and yes, he is in the Gone To Soon video. there's footage of him with Ryan White in the original video. also, it doesn't matter if he's in the video or not, it's still edited, and it's still wrong. it is still a Michael Jackson short film. and so they are still his work, and therefore they should obviously be included in their original form
 
OMG I HATE WHEN HE DOES THAT. I feel exactly how Michael felt about James Brown...."i was so mad because i couldn't see his feet". Its like he steals videos with logos on it & just zooms in.
Btw i didn't know those videos were shot on tape & how did you know that? Not saying your lying because it makes since why they look how they look on moonwalker vs everything else.

Generally there are certain aesthetics in certain types of video/film formats that give off the format it was shot in, and usually you can pick up on them over time. The OTW videos visually look as if they were shot on tape. Also, the director for Rock with You and SOOML told Rolling Stone that they were shot on the same day and for very, very cheap; now given that tape was generally cheaper than film stock, there's also that.

I'm also pretty sure that I read a source some years back that confirmed it was shot on tape, but I'm struggling to find it now.

Saaaaaay Does anyone know why say say say & she's out of my life wasn't in the retrospective for moonwalker with everything else even tho he shot videos for it because human nature obviously wasn't official?? He could've had used pyt imo

Could simply be they chose not to, or the fact they didn't have enough time (and they really liked the Human Nature sequence). It's an extremely and overly long retrospective tbh, I tend to skip it most times I watch the film.

also, not the full version of Ghosts and they forgot to include the HIStory video. I know it's a remix they used for the video back when it came out, and it has never been released. but still, they could have included it, as they also included other videos that's never been released but only shown on TV and why they didn't include the full version of Smooth Criminal, but they include the full short film for Speed Demon? :doh:

Among the time-related reasons for Ghosts not being included, there's also the fact they probably want to save Ghosts full-length for a future release. Why would people re-buy Ghosts if they already have the full-version? Sure some MJ fans would, but many people wouldn't.

As for HIStory, IDK I've never seen it myself. Probably it's because it was to a remix, it also lacked MJ's no presence in the film itself and he probably had little to do with the production (whereas BOTDF was the original music video, just dubbed over with a remix. Plus it actually featured MJ).

As for Smooth Criminal, why would they include half the Moonwalker film? It's the same reason why Michael didn't release the 40 minute version back on the HIStory DVDs. Besides, the rest of the 30 minute segment featured in Moonwalker is ultimately irrelevant to the 10 minute music video, apart from brief appearances from the children and the troopers at the end (who even then don't need the context from Moonwalker, most viewers assume that Michael is playing the Smooth Criminal and the troopers are after him).

They showed the full version of Speed Demon as the context was needed to help show why Michael was being chased in the first place, plus it's only 10 minutes as opposed to a whopping 40 minutes aka half the length of his feature film.

I don't understand why new intros but not 1 bit of restoration.

This is a lot more complex than most fans realise. It seems like the only final outputs of Michael's short films exist on tape, even if they were shot in higher quality. Some fans have said they were shot on film then edited on tape. I'm not entirely sure, all I know is that for the most part, the Estate only have the final versions in tape quality. This is why in Bad 25, when we see the outtakes/behind the scenes footage, it's in great quality (as it's scanned from the film), but when we cut to see part of the final product, it's suddenly in low quality. Therefore, it's quite reasonable to assume that the Estate do not have copies of most short films in a quality better than standard definition.

The restoration process for all of Michael's short films would be quite intense and could easily take months and months, even years. Firstly, they would have to find all the original negatives for Michael's short films, and given his sporadic archiving process, this might be harder than we think. On top of this, these have to be the actual negatives of the takes that were selected for the actual final cuts. All of these film negatives will then have to rescanned and touched up frame-by-frame to fix any blemishes/scratches, or even tears if the film was poorly handled/archived. They will have to hunt down EDL's (Editing decision lists, basically lists all the takes used/where they were cut etc) and use those to reconstruct the films from scratch, apply the same colour correction that was used in the original versions. Now with a basic assembly in-tact, they would have to redo all of the visual effects, which got pretty intense from the Bad/Dangerous era onwards. The Dangerous era onwards especially started using digital effects, all of which would've been rendered in standard definition quality so all of the CGI you see in BoW, Scream, Earth Song etc would need to be re-done from scratch (assuming they don't have the original project files, which they may or may not).

So then they have to restore, remix and remaster all the audio from stereo into surround sound (as that's essentially a given nowadays for releases, especially remastered releases). Here's hoping they have all the tapes for the audio files we hear in the short films! There is a process that allows you to get a mono or stereo source and "seperate" what you hear into multiple tracks, but that process is still relatively new, is not the highest quality source possible and probably somewhat expensive, especially for over 30 short films (my educated guess, but the cost aspect is something I'm not entirely sure of). For quality purposes, you would definitely want to go back to the original recordings if you could.

Congratulations! You have one Michael Jackson film in sparkling, crystal-clear high definition. Now repeat this over 30 more times :D

Some YouTubers like ultimist are very good & look better than what the estate released.

Hardly. The thing is, Ultimist does an alright job colour-correcting Bad (and I agree, the colour should be re-corrected to what Scorsese intended) but apart from that, they does not have access to better quality sources than what the Michael or the Estate have released over the years.

They can upscale/sharpen/use digital-noise-reduction all they likes but it's not really improving the quality, there's no more "information" to utilise in the images they're "improving". In fact, if anything, their HIStory teaser looks like shit because they've smudged it to hell and back with DNR, giving it an ugly waxy look (and if anything, you're LOSING detail by doing that).
 
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Generally there are certain aesthetics in certain types of video/film formats that give off the format it was shot in, and usually you can pick up on them over time. The OTW videos visually look as if they were shot on tape. Also, the director for Rock with You and SOOML told Rolling Stone that they were shot on the same day and for very, very cheap; now given that tape was generally cheaper than film stock, there's also that.

I'm also pretty sure that I read a source some years back that confirmed it was shot on tape, but I'm struggling to find it now.



Could simply be they chose not to, or the fact they didn't have enough time (and they really liked the Human Nature sequence). It's an extremely and overly long retrospective tbh, I tend to skip it most times I watch the film.



Among the time-related reasons for Ghosts not being included, there's also the fact they probably want to save Ghosts full-length for a future release. Why would people re-buy Ghosts if they already have the full-version? Sure some MJ fans would, but many people wouldn't.

As for HIStory, IDK I've never seen it myself. Probably it's because it was to a remix, it also lacked MJ's no presence in the film itself and he probably had little to do with the production (whereas BOTDF was the original music video, just dubbed over with a remix. Plus it actually featured MJ).

As for Smooth Criminal, why would they include half the Moonwalker film? It's the same reason why Michael didn't release the 40 minute version back on the HIStory DVDs. Besides, the rest of the 30 minute segment featured in Moonwalker is ultimately irrelevant to the 10 minute music video, apart from brief appearances from the children and the troopers at the end (who even then don't need the context from Moonwalker, most viewers assume that Michael is playing the Smooth Criminal and the troopers are after him).

They showed the full version of Speed Demon as the context was needed to help show why Michael was being chased in the first place, plus it's only 10 minutes as opposed to a whopping 40 minutes aka half the length of his feature film.



This is a lot more complex than most fans realise. It seems like the only final outputs of Michael's short films exist on tape, even if they were shot in higher quality. Some fans have said they were shot on film then edited on tape. I'm not entirely sure, all I know is that for the most part, the Estate only have the final versions in tape quality. This is why in Bad 25, when we see the outtakes/behind the scenes footage, it's in great quality (as it's scanned from the film), but when we cut to see part of the final product, it's suddenly in low quality. Therefore, it's quite reasonable to assume that the Estate do not have copies of most short films in a quality better than standard definition.

The restoration process for all of Michael's short films would be quite intense and could easily take months and months, even years. Firstly, they would have to find all the original negatives for Michael's short films, and given his sporadic archiving process, this might be harder than we think. On top of this, these have to be the actual negatives of the takes that were selected for the actual final cuts. All of these film negatives will then have to rescanned and touched up frame-by-frame to fix any blemishes/scratches, or even tears if the film was poorly handled/archived. They will have to hunt down EDL's (Editing decision lists, basically lists all the takes used/where they were cut etc) and use those to reconstruct the films from scratch, apply the same colour correction that was used in the original versions. Now with a basic assembly in-tact, they would have to redo all of the visual effects, which got pretty intense from the Bad/Dangerous era onwards. The Dangerous era onwards especially started using digital effects, all of which would've been rendered in standard definition quality so all of the CGI you see in BoW, Scream, Earth Song etc would need to be re-done from scratch (assuming they don't have the original project files, which they may or may not).

So then they have to restore, remix and remaster all the audio from stereo into surround sound (as that's essentially a given nowadays for releases, especially remastered releases). Here's hoping they have all the tapes for the audio files we hear in the short films! There is a process that allows you to get a mono or stereo source and "seperate" what you hear into multiple tracks, but that process is still relatively new, is not the highest quality source possible and probably somewhat expensive, especially for over 30 short films (my educated guess, but the cost aspect is something I'm not entirely sure of). For quality purposes, you would definitely want to go back to the original recordings if you could.

Congratulations! You have one Michael Jackson film in sparkling, crystal-clear high definition. Now repeat this over 30 more times :D



Hardly. The thing is, Ultimist does an alright job colour-correcting Bad (and I agree, they should re-correct the colour to what Scorsese intended) but apart from that, he does not have access to better quality sources than what the Michael or the Estate have released over the years.

(S)he can upscale/sharpen/use digital-noise-reduction all (s)he likes but it's not really improving the quality, there's no more "information" to utilise in the images (s)he's "improving". In fact, if anything, his/her HIStory teaser looks like shit because (s)he's smudged it to hell and back with DNR, giving it an ugly waxy look (and if anything, you're LOSING detail by doing that).

Dude i had to screen shot what u said. You have answered everything ive came to this forum for. L.O.V.E for that. You make 100% sense about everything. I constantly wanted to know why bad 25 was like that. I hate that the others were shot on tape..i really do but boooooyyyy you got my nutz pumped when you said new cgi effects on the original negatives...just imagine what wonders they could do. I wish Michael hired me to organize his archive. Once it's in his hands, smh.... i always go straight to dancin machine on the retro. Ben drains me & who's loving you is really long. & again im glad history isn't on there. Mane you've said it all lol.umm.. oh yea,i knew what ultimist was working with. I'm just happy for the fact that he's putting effort into it.
 
It seems like the only final outputs of The restoration process for all of Michael's short films would be quite intense and could easily take months and months, even years. Firstly, they would have to find all the original negatives for Michael's short films, and given his sporadic archiving process, this might be harder than we think. On top of this, these have to be the actual negatives of the takes that were selected for the actual final cuts. All of these film negatives will then have to rescanned and touched up frame-by-frame to fix any blemishes/scratches, or even tears if the film was poorly handled/archived. They will have to hunt down EDL's (Editing decision lists, basically lists all the takes used/where they were cut etc) and use those to reconstruct the films from scratch, apply the same colour correction that was used in the original versions. Now with a basic assembly in-tact, they would have to redo all of the visual effects, which got pretty intense from the Bad/Dangerous era onwards. The Dangerous era onwards especially started using digital effects, all of which would've been rendered in standard definition quality so all of the CGI you see in BoW, Scream, Earth Song etc would need to be re-done from scratch (assuming they don't have the original project files, which they may or may not).
ok but didnt they use the negatives at warner bros? or was that part of Moonwalker being on film & at the time when he made moonwalker he used the original negatives for the retro...& if thats the case im sure he has them if not anything else stored somewhere. I understand shows but his shorts were something serious. He was mostly about presentation...lol i said that as if you didnt know
 
Dude i had to screen shot what u said. You have answered everything ive came to this forum for. L.O.V.E for that. You make 100% sense about everything. I constantly wanted to know why bad 25 was like that. I hate that the others were shot on tape..

You're welcome! For the record, I believe just about everything Thriller-era onwards is shot on film, especially as budgets got bigger Post-Thriller (the short film). Some of his videos are compilations, like Man in the Mirror, and these do use footage that was shot on tape.

i really do but boooooyyyy you got my nutz pumped when you said new cgi effects on the original negatives...just imagine what wonders they could do.

HAHAHA are you talking about them updating the CGI to modern day standards? Making them (ie the spaceship in Scream) look more amazing and realistic? If so yeah you could do that but then you'd have a lot of fans complaining (given there's much more minor changes being complained about there, well yeah).

If I was in charge, I'd have them do the CGI so that it looked like the original elements, just that it was in a much higher resolution. :)

ok but didnt they use the negatives at warner bros? or was that part of Moonwalker being on film & at the time when he made moonwalker he used the original negatives for the retro...& if thats the case im sure he has them if not anything else stored somewhere. I understand shows but his shorts were something serious. He was mostly about presentation...lol i said that as if you didnt know

The Estate had little to do with the Moonwalker Blu-ray except approving it's release most likely, Warner Brothers are the ones who would have stored a copy of the final film negative that would've been utilised for the Blu-ray release.

For the retrospective, yeah whatever they used was sometimes sourced from film (like the Beat It/Thriller snippets). Some elements of the retrospective though, i.e. Jackson 5 moments or the Motown 25 were sourced from tape as they were actually shot on tape in the first place.
 
Short films on Blu-Ray would be great. Moonwalker blu-ray has some amazing HD snippets:

I don't ever want them to release his short films again in any way. with the way they edited/ruined some of them on the DVD release, what's the point? if it's gonna be like that, quality don't mean anything, really. I don't care how good the quality is, if the videos are not the way they were originally made. the problem is not that fans don't complain enough about the quality, but that they don't complain enough about the fact that they had edited some of those videos heavily

A new release could have the original versions. They should also be released in HD because of the historical value. Classic music videos should be preserved just like classic movies.
 
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I don't know what's funny about what I wrote? huh?
the mitm video is on vision, the original MUSIC VIDEO, not the Moonwalker version. and Cry is on it too. and yes, he is in the Gone To Soon video. there's footage of him with Ryan White in the original video. also, it doesn't matter if he's in the video or not, it's still edited, and it's still wrong. it is still a Michael Jackson short film. and so they are still his work, and therefore they should obviously be included in their original form

Yeah, what they went for was the definitive MJ video collection so these videos were all necessary. I actually love the MITM video because it taught me a lot when I was a kid cos I was interested to know what was happening in each section.

It's just a shame that with just an extra hour of homework, they could have nailed this release on the head.
 
Officially apologise for what they did with the Michael album.


Bingo you hit it on the head i was not please with the album at all.

Careful alittle off topic and be kind to each others.
 
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Yeah, what they went for was the definitive MJ video collection so these videos were all necessary. I actually love the MITM video because it taught me a lot when I was a kid cos I was interested to know what was happening in each section.

It's just a shame that with just an extra hour of homework, they could have nailed this release on the head.
same here! Michael is my greatest teacher/mentor. I have learned SO much from him like I have from no one else. just his videos alone. and then comes everything else

Smh....women....cant live with em...period
men...can't live without women. not only because you need us to breed, but because you would be extinct long before the last man would die of old age, because you wouldn't know how to survive without us :rollin:
 
Mod warning: Try to keep your cool with each other and refrain from going off topic. If you have a problem with what one person said use the private messages option and get it sorted there. Thank you.
 
I want to see some concerts in full of the Victory Tour release on DVD a clear ones and some more Bad Tour concerts that would really make me happy and the Making of Thriller on DVD.
 
I never even thought about the Cascio tracks.

Them officially detaching themselves from those songs would mean a lot to me. A lot.
 
I agree with the last two ideas. Ghosts and Dangerous 25. I would love for them to release Ghosts in HD on Itunes (as it isn't there) and Dangerous 25 with Demos, Unheard songs (like Bad 25), a big booklet with pictures and a concert.
 
Appoint someone else to take charge of the creative side of things. And no, LA Reid is NOT a suitable candidate.
 
With all the creative control Michael had Post Bad Era, I think it will be easy (I hope) for the estate to release a Dangerous 25 Boxset. If I'm not mistaken there is 3 projects left. I think they will be Dangerous 25, an album of unreleased recordings and a Thriller/HIStory (one or the other) project.

What would make me happy would be for 1 the estate to apologize and remove the Cascio tracks from the Michael album, fight and win against Robson in that waste of time case, and simply do right my Michael. Michael left many notes and blueprints on how he wanted things done work off of that. Stop trying to work off of temporary success and work towards longevity!
 
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