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When did Janet become an Icon

Janet suffers from an image problem from the get go. The same problem that all the younger Jacksons have been suffering from. That is the image that doors were opened for her, and tht she was born with a silver spoon in her mouth. This is unfortunate for her really. I believe this is why she has tried desparately to separate her self from her family and even dropping her last name. It doesn't help her much to be labellled the 'Normal'Jackson. That doesn't fit the image of the pop world where most innovative popstas have been out of the box and off the wall
The trouble for Janet is that she has left it kind of late. She started out sqeeky clean and now she has changed to this sex goddess, but nobody is buying it cause that role was long taken by Maddona. It would be like Maddona behaving like a born again christian. In truth, if I did not come on an MJ site, I would even hear of Janet. Maybe an american Icon, but rest of the world, I don't think so.
 
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KOPV said:
and Britney was one from the JANET SCHOOL..

you better believe that Janet was one of the FIRST female artists that was able to break down barriers for women to be thought of as a true in every form of the word ENTERTAINER. Not just that, her music has always been impactful.. She's sang about it all, which has impacted peoples lives in a big way.

I personally find it disrespectful for some1 to even mention Spears in the same line as Janet..

To me it's almost (not to that limate but..) like what people do to Usher and Michael.. PLEASE!!!!

U say 'Janets dancing came straight out of the Michael Jackson school'

well guess what.. 90% of the music industry today came from that same school.. INCLUDING BRITNEY SPEARS..

that does not make Janet any less impactful. Britney has been influenced by Janet in a large way..

EVEN today at 42 years old Janet would whoope Britney's butt on stage.. And in the studio.

If you take some music history classes, you will be tought about Janet Jackson.. U will not hear about Britney.. The only time her name has came up in ANY of my music history classes is in a list of names of people that have been able to do what they do now because of people like Janet Jackson..


And I'm still waiting for SOMEONE to tell me what Britney has done to be an icon??
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Please show respect to Diana Ross and Tina Turner among others.:mello:
 
And I am not saying that Janet is not an excellent entertainer. I am saying that is not what icons are made of.
 
I'm not cutting down Tina Turner or Diana Ross.. I have much love for them.. That is why I say ONE OF.. Janet was is from the MTV age..

they allowed the way for Janet, the same way James Brown and Jackie Wilson did for Michael..


Datsmay- do u remember the VH1 special. "JANET JACKSON ICON"..

the people that paid tribute to her, and why?

Here is who paid tribute..

Aaliyah
Christina Aguilara
Lance Bass
Bill Bellamy
Andre 3000
Big Boi
Jonathan Brighman
J.C. Chasez
Joye Fatone
Devon Glenn
Macy Gray
D.L. Hughley
Jackie Jackson
Jermaine Jackson
Marlon Jackson
Michael Jackson
Tito Jackson
Jimmy Jam
Chris Kirkpatrick
Beyonce
Andrea Konno
Tina Landon
Terry Lewis
Jennifer Lopez
Mya
Keith nelson
Shaq o'neal
Pink
Usher
Kelly Rowland
Jessica Simpson
Britney Spears
Justin Timberlake
Josh Todd
Michelle Williams
Missy Elliot
Yogi

It was directed by: David Mallet a person that has worked with HUGE ICONS, LEGENDS, just worldwide huge people.

Tina Turner
U2
Bon Jovi
AC/DC
Madonna
Barry Manilow
Elton John
Cher
Rolling Stones
(just to name a few)

He's even directed the Rock n' Roll hall afame several times.

Now would a guy that has been in the industry since the 1962.. one that has seen MANY artists come and go, worked with some of the biggest and brightest stars.. take time out to direct in dedication for Janet Jackson if she were not a true icon??


writting creadits for the show went to David Wild.. A person that has done the writting for vertually every award show you can think of..


These are the people that KNOW Janet is an icon.. And this just scratches the surface..



Let me ask you this aswell.. If Michaels next album was ignored, does not sell, and no1 talks about it.. WOuld he be less of an icon?? NO! Because is IMPACT has all ready been done, has EARNED it all ready.
 
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the facts are there - the influence is evident and the impact resulted from such influence on heavy hitting Pop and R&B artists of the nineties and noughties.

frankly, to say she is not known outside of the US with such albums as Control, Rhythm Nation, Janet and The Velvet Rope, is without factual basis. it actually goes against the facts.
 
As I said to you, I don't care what the music industry call janet. They call Justin Timberlake the king of pop.
Icons are recognised for having certain characteristics. They are heros, who have overcome obsatcles in their lives and are recognised as such by the general public. Not by a pact of politically correct industry driven sharks.
It is the people that will decide their icons. Britney will be the new Marylin
Monroe. Before Diana died the public was getting really weary of her because of her public behaviour, not too dissimilar to Britany Spears. The media was very unflattering in their articles about her and public sympathy was waning. She died a tragic death and everything changed, she was instantly seen as a victim and she became the icon that we know today.
Janet will never be an icon in the publics mind because there is no struggle. Whitney Huston used to have the same problem as janet. Now she has overcome a bad marriage and drugs, so if she cleans herself up and get her career back on track, she also could become an icon.
 
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Datsymay said:
As I said to you, I don't care what the music industry call janet. They call Justin Timberlake the king of pop.
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no they don't. that's stemmed either from the media, from his devoted fans and/or from his own PR camp.

the industry constitutes the generations of artists and the map of influences.
 
arXter said:
the facts are there - the influence is evident and the impact resulted from such influence on heavy hitting Pop and R&B artists of the nineties and noughties.

frankly, to say she is not known outside of the US with such albums as Control, Rhythm Nation, Janet and The Velvet Rope, is without factual basis. it actually goes against the facts.
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I have never said that janet was never Known outside America.I knew Janet was big all over in the 90's. The music industry has very short memory. New music buyers do not remember janet, or have decided that they don't fancy her music. They haven't been buying it. Not even in america. It has long fallen out of the charts in 4 weeks. There were many people who were big in the 90's. That doesn't make them icons. If you read my post carefully, I am saying that icons are more than just music-makers. Personality comes into it, and so far Janet doesn't seem to have any.
 
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Datsymay said:
I have never saud that janet was never Known outside America.I knew Janet was big all over in the 90's.
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i'm talking in her own right - i.e. without the baseless assumption that the UK only know her as MJ's sister. that's a diss to general music fans.

The music industry has very short memory. New music buyers do not remember janet,
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as otherworldy an assumption and gross generalisation as this, i will disagree.

or have decided that they don't fancy her music. They haven't been buying it. Not even in america. It has long ffalen out of the charts in 4 weeks.
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she went down in quality after TVR - that doesn't make her influence or history of success any less valid.

you're crucially lacking facts in this - and they are necessary in such a debate.
 
Well, that write up that they did in the paper recently when she was in Britain, did introduce her as MJ's little sister, before they went on to lavish praise on her in an effort to put MJ down, which is what generally happen.
Under 6000 records sold in Britain seems to tell me that most record buying public did ignore Janets record.
 
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and that diminishes her previous and multiple successes and influence, does it?

and because a paper introduced her as the sister, that means music fans only know her as such? you know that's bogus.
 
arXter said:
and that diminishes her previous and multiple successes and influence, does it?

and because a paper introduced her as the sister, that means music fans only know her as such? you know that's bogus.
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You cannot speak for music fans anymore than I can. But I speak from experience of the people that I meet, mainly young people. I told you they were not interested in Janet, and the sales show that I was right. Anyway, I have said all I have to say on this subject. I don't think there is any need for arguments. We all have opnions.:)
 
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HA HA!! I'm sorry this is getting too rediculous for me..

Britney, Monroe???? WTH???

Britney is will never be remembered like her.. Someone has been too into gossip magazines..

Britney will be forgotten.. U know how many people have been hounded by the media??? Not just britney.. Britney has not overcome a fraction of Janet has.

She was able to reach WORLD sucess at a time that only a selected FEW could.. Britney is worldwide known because of how the media works now..

I can be famous just by recording a porntape, and be a friend to a celeb, or have money... then leak it out.. Paris Hilton, Kim Kardashian..

shoot!! U know how many people had home sex tapes leaked in the late 80's and but got minimal attention.. That is because the world of media was different.. to reach world sucess was VERY MUCH HARDER..

Now you can become what u call an 'icon' by not doing anything..

If Britney were out in the 80's.. she would have came and gone..

She aint no Monroe..


U mentioned Janet not known around the world.. Well I am one that has been to several countries.. and I can tell you from personal experience that she IS..

Also she has done several WORLD TOURS.. if a person was not famous outside the U.S. they would not go there..

Janets 1st tour.. was the largest grossing debut tour in history



U just don't get it.. NOW anyone and everyone that is a celeb is known ALL OVER THE WORLD.. it's not like before..

NOW Akon, black eye peyes, ne-yo, Snoop Dogg, 50 cent, chris brown, Pussy cat dolls, Danity Kane.. and vertually ANY other musician tours worldly..

Africa, Europe, China, South America..


It's VERY easy to reach world sucess now.. it's not the same..

It's a different game now..

before, there would be documentaries when a european artist would first come to united states, or vice versa.. It was a BIG DEAL.. If you were to cross over to other countries that was a HUGE deal..

Now world sucess just comes with it.. U have a hit in the united states, everyone will hear it..

Take even TV shows, americas best top model..

U know now they have 'top models' for Germany, Mexico, Isreal, Denmark, Finland, Honduras... and so much more..


Americal idol.. U know how many countries have there own 'idol' show now??

U know how many people all over the world watch CNN.. FOX.. etc.. It's not the same..

my family in a little village in Libya has satilight now and watches all these shows that never before they were able to.. U'll see Larry King, American Idol, vertually any show you want..

Before when Janet earned her worldwide sucess was at a time where if you reached another country, that ALONE was a huge feat to overcome..

The comparison is really pointless..

I would not even consider myself a Janet fan.. I just know what she has done, and know her talent is amazing, and she's an icon..

there are VERY few people I am a 'fan' of.. MJ is the only true person I consider myself a fan of.. But I appreciate many others.. just not a 'fan'.. which is short for fanatic..
 
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Datsymay said:
You cannot speak for music fans anymore than I can.
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very true hence why KOPV and i were using facts such as record sales and influence on other artists.


edit: well, since you've ignore the same question for the fourth time, i'll add more basis:
But I speak from experoence of the peoplethat I meet, mainly young people. I told you they were not interested in Janet, and the sales show that I was right.
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how young are these people and how large a group are they for you to correctly generalise? last time you said this you were speaking of primary school children and they are not of age to listen to Janet.
 
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I never said janet was not known around the world, Show me where I said that. I said she is not considered an icon, except maybe in America. Nobody is talking about her here in britain. Young peope do not want to buy her records and Britney is famous it doesn't matter what she is famous for. Not all icons are famous for their music. Marylyn Monroe only sang happy birthday to the president, but she was gossipped about in the press just like britney was.The fact is that it is her private life that has kept her name in the public's memory. Same with Britney, same with Diana, same with michael jackson. There is nothing to hold peoples attention with janet, that is why she will never become an icon in the minds of the people, no matter how much the music industry will call her that.
By the way, when America voted for their music legends, where did Janet come on the list. I know MJ came 3rd. but where did janet come? was she even on the list?
 
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arXter - no, I hate it t but FACTS don't mean anything to some people..

read my older posts, I started with facts and some people.. I believe Datsmay was one of them that tells me that SALES don't say anything.. etc..

I mentioned that Britneys last album (her 5th album in the industry) sold only 2 million, while Janets 5th album sold 19 million..

that got knocked out like it did not matter..

I mentioned just today that Janets first tour was the LARGEST grossing debut tour..

I am not putting that much opinion in my statements.. Datsmay is.. the only opinion I use is responce to Datsmays opinions..

I mentioned the lists of people the honored Janet as an Icon.. I brought to the table things, and I am still waiting for SOMEONE to tell me what Britney did to be an icon..


And Datsmay - do u understand it does not matter what people are talking about.. Paul McCartney is in the biggest group in HISTORY.. he recently released an album and I heard hardly ANYTHING about it.. I don't know the name, how the music sounds, OR ANYTHING..

but the fact the impact was all ready done...


Janets biggest days, yes they could be past.. But her impact has been MUCH larger than Britneys
 
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the word icon means many different things depending on what the subject is about. this subject is in regards to music. and from that incons normally are created because of the success they have had and how they have influenced others. nothing to do with struggles etc so in that sense i guess u can call janet an icon interms of female artists due to the success and influence she has had on others. this is seen more in the usa as thats where her main success has been.she might not be seen as one if u want to say shes an icon because of her success in europe for eg but over all what she has done,regardless of what shes doing now puts her up there.

britney is an icon of artists falling apart drink drugs etc. an icon of the how things are now in the 21st century but shes certainly not an icon because of her musical success,influence i doubt any of todays stars will ever get that title because the last of the superstars are mj maddonna etc. there wont ever be real big stars again because of the state of the industry
 
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people at this day and age cannot reach superstardum.. simply because the world has changed.. when vertually anyone can be famous, the bar has lowered..

What made a person an 'icon' was the fact they jumped over that VERY high bar..

now with the bar so low, people cannot reach as high..

For the same reason why no1 will ever outsell Thriller.. Is the same reason why there will not be another megastar..

it's a whole change in culture..
 
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I would say Beyonce is an icon by todays standards... yes she is influenced by many other artists like Tina, Whitney Janet and of course Michael and it shows in her performances and music...but ultimately, she is unique and influences a lot of the yunger girls coming up whether you wanna accept it or not...rihanna, christina milian, etc..the petty girls lol...but she is still a big influence...even look at MJ...is was influence by the likes of James Brown and Sammy Davis Jr. and it shows in his craft and yet he still (obviously) influenced a number of generations
 
^ Well I'll say this.. Beyonce has done more and has been more sucessful than Britney Spears.. Her career has lasted longer, and shows no hint of fading away..

A true 'icon' does not crumble under pressure of the media.. Britney kept getting worse and worse, with the more eyes watching her mistakes.. It's like she kept falling further and further as the pressure built.. Which is mentally understandable, but not something to be respected or thought of positivily.

Beyonce has been able to keep her personal life PRIVATE, without hiding it.. That is something amazing in this industry.. yeah she gets her mentionings in gossip mags.. but she does not make it worse on herself, and does not pay it any mind. which forces them to back off.

the more you react, lash out, and act stupid the more they will hunt you..
 
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KOPV said:
^ Well I'll say this.. Beyonce has done more and has been more sucessful than Britney Spears.. Her career has lasted longer, and shows no hint of fading away..

A true 'icon' does not crumble under pressure of the media.. Britney kept getting worse and worse, with the more eyes watching her mistakes.. It's like she kept falling further and further as the pressure built.. Which is mentally understandable, but not something to be respected or thought of positivily.

Beyonce has been able to keep her personal life PRIVATE, without hiding it.. That is something amazing in this industry.. yeah she gets her mentionings in gossip mags.. but she does not make it worse on herself, and does not pay it any mind. which forces them to back off.

the more you react, lash out, and act stupid the more they will hunt you..
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couldnt agree more....lol
 
strawberry45220 said:
Janet is in the geneis book of records as the most googled. and the superbolw is the most google book.so yes she is. and she the most googled in 2005 also. and I have no idea where you are getting that list from Briteny has been for the last couple of years, Micheal isn't even in there.
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Janet IS NOT the most googled where did you heard that ???????? in 2006/2007 michael was second and Britney 1st , in 2007/2008 michael is already 2nd after i forget his name , the actor of a musical comedy hey i am going to bring you the source and bring me your source please ... but janet is way far the 1st place man way far ...
 
^^ the 'most googled' changed ALL the time.. so it's very believable she was the most googled..

I know after her Superbowl performance. ;) she was the most googled then..


But it always changes.. almost daily.. But in the end of the year they do have a count of who got the most hits overall..

It changes, changes, changes..

most googled does not say much though.. I mean, when Anna Nicole died, she was the most googled, when Heath past, he was way up there..

These people traditionally did not have a high google rating.. lol!

it's even funny to talk about google, as like an offical count thing..
(2 me anyways)
 
KOPV said:
^^ the 'most googled' changed ALL the time.. so it's very believable she was the most googled..

I know after her Superbowl performance. ;) she was the most googled then..


But it always changes.. almost daily.. But in the end of the year they do have a count of who got the most hits overall..

It changes, changes, changes..

most googled does not say much though.. I mean, when Anna Nicole died, she was the most googled, when Heath past, he was way up there..

These people traditionally did not have a high google rating.. lol!

it's even funny to talk about google, as like an offical count thing..
(2 me anyways)
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I realy want to see the source of janet being the most google of ALL TIME .

for the YEAR 2006/2007 (the Year ) michael is 2 nd with 370 million of pages wereas he didn't do NOTHING for years now , and janet realeased Discipline but is far away from the 1st place ;
 
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serena williams said:
I realy want to see the source of janet being the most google of ALL TIME .

for the YEAR 2006/2007 (the Year ) michael is 2 nd with 370 million of pages wereas he didn't do NOTHING for years now , and janet realeased Discipline but is far away from the 1st place ;
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Yeah that sounds more likely. I think Janet was the most googled person for the year after the Superbowl scandal, but I highly doubt she's the most googled person of all time.

Here's a news article from Times Online that lists the most googled people of 2005:

Most searched news terms:

1. Janet Jackson
2. Hurricane Katrina
3. tsunami
4. xbox 360
5. Brad Pitt
6. Michael Jackson
7. American Idol
8. Britney Spears
9. Angelina Jolie
10. Harry Potter

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article778550.ece

It doesn't say anything about her being the most googled person ever though.
 
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Cinnamon234 said:
Yeah that sounds more likely. I think Janet was the most googled person for the year after the Superbowl scandal, but I highly doubt she's the most googled person of all time.

Here's a news article from Times Online that lists the most googled people of 2005:

Most searched news terms:

1. Janet Jackson
2. Hurricane Katrina
3. tsunami
4. xbox 360
5. Brad Pitt
6. Michael Jackson
7. American Idol
8. Britney Spears
9. Angelina Jolie
10. Harry Potter

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article778550.ece

It doesn't say anything about her being the most googled person ever though.
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OK thank you for the list , it is for 2005 after the superbowl "gate" so a bit normal as everybody wanted to see the so famous "breast" which choked America and the super bowl performance .

You see , michael is in the top 10 without any performance Strawberry ,and is always in the top 10 wereas janet has to do something significant to be there , last year she ended only 14th when mike ended 2nd .
 
serena williams said:
OK thank you for the list , it is for 2005 after the superbowl "gate" so a bit normal as everybody wanted to see the so famous "breast" which choked America and the super bowl performance .

You see , michael is in the top 10 without any performance Strawberry ,and is always in the top 10 wereas janet has to do something significant to be there , last year she ended only 14th when mike ended 2nd .
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That titty was all over the place in 2005. Breast peiercing had a significant boost too.:p
 
serena williams said:
You see , michael is in the top 10 without any performance Strawberry ,and is always in the top 10 wereas janet has to do something significant to be there , last year she ended only 14th when mike ended 2nd .
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what has this got to do with whether or not Janet is an icon? we need to stop these silly comparisons.
 
Yeah but i was answering to this quote :


Memia said:
I'm not a Janet fan (love Rhythm nation but can't classify as a fan) but Janet is an Icon.
She's not the worlds most googled person for nothing ;)

When I weren't a Michael fan I didn't even know she was Michael's sister!
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for the google thing , just it means you are very popular to people , maybe it is not the definition of "icon" but that's the way the subject devied .
 
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