When were these pictures of Michael and Lisa Marie Presley actually taken?

[reibish]

For him it was not business. He just wanted children badly. For her it was business.

please tell me where she said this. Show me the receipts! And I ain't talkin' dollars.

Until then, no, I won't "romanticize" what happened between them, goodness. I know they weren't in love with each other. But what you guys say just doesn't add up with their entire history as friends, nor does it validate her statements. I'll believe it for what it is: Michael wanted children, and a close friend of his offered after his WIFE said no after originally promising him kids (though I am not shaming on LMP, having kids is a serious commitment and she already had two at the time). He made sure she was taken care of, likea supportive single dad should. She gave him what he wanted most in the world, what's wrong with him giving her what she wanted in return? (btw, he bought her a house in Beverly Hills, not the horse ranch. She sold it to buy the ranch, I even remember this was a news byline when it happened).

I would have done the same thing for him in her shoes, and I don't even want kids. If he'd offered me money in return for it, I certainly wouldn't have declined it.

Like, seriously don't complicate this. Not everyone around Michael was a bloodsucker. It's so sad that one of the few genuine ones are so fiercely attacked. We weren't there. Kids, money, and that kind of stuff is much more complicated than it looks - it doesn't matter who the parents are involved.

Don't speak as if you know her intentions. LIKE I SAID about Schaffel, that is a WHOLE other ball of wax that I won't get into. Believe me I know the B.S. that went down. I am just able to separate it, clearly unlike others here. Michael + Debbie + kidlets doesn't include him anywhere in that, so it's irrelevant to include him, except for those who want to trash her character.

RE: surrogacy services: the fees are paid by the agency. And surrogacy means that the woman carries a child that is not biologically hers in any way; the egg is not hers.

Seriously guys this is so tabloidy. I'm 150% done. Prince is 18 years old. ?Let it go.

 

[reibish]

Frankly, YOU seem to be the most emotional one about this subject.

Mmmm no...because there are clear misjudgments in your "arguments?"

It's very, very simple to me.

I'm not the one trashing her character.

Please, by all means continue at this point.

Putting words in people's mouths that aren't there. Coming up with outlandish stories rather than the more characteristic likelihood of what really happened. Bringing in other people that are impertinent to the situation. Those are logical fallacies! Either back up your statements or stop making them, because they're awful and hurtful.

Seriously, would you have the balls to say this to Prince and Paris' face?

The venom with which fans will spit out at his ex-wives is kind of disturbing.

 

[HIStory]

please tell me where she said this. Show me the receipts! And I ain't talkin' dollars.

I showed you the receipts already.

Rowe says in the lawsuit that Jackson stopped making his promised payments to her in October 2003. Jackson agreed when they divorced to pay his ex-wife $1 million a year for the first three years after their split and $750,000 annually for six more years. Rowe also received a house in Beverly Hills and a 1998 Ford Explorer. She agreed to visit her children only once every 45 days, according to the lawsuit.

This is not a "gift" by Michael. A gift is voluntary. However when Michael stopped paying Debbie filed a lawsuit against him. How do you sue for not receiving a gift from someone?

It's so sad that one of the few genuine ones are so fiercely attacked.

Some fans just do not believe Debbie is a genuine person.

LIKE I SAID about Schaffel, that is a WHOLE other ball of wax that I won't get into. Believe me I know the B.S. that went down. I am just able to separate it, clearly unlike others here. Michael + Debbie + kidlets doesn't include him anywhere in that, so it's irrelevant to include him, except for those who want to trash her character.

I do think it matters. I would not consider it fine either if Debbie befriended Wade Robson or Gavin Arvizo. To you things like that may not matter but to me they do. Birds of a feather as they say. And like I said Schaffel and Debbie use Michael's name to promote Schaffel's protegee. After all what Schaffel has done to Michael, you have to have the nerve.

And would you please calm down. You are the only one being overly emotional about this subject here. You should try to accept that not everyone will have the same opinions about people around Michael as you. You think Debbie Rowe is a genuine person. I do not think so. Can we just agree to disagree?

 

[InvincibleMJ]

Bashir: "It is an incredible gesture."

Jackson: "Yes, there are surrogate mothers who do that every day. That
happens every day in the world - it is happening right now."

It is what it is, I'm not being judgmental towards MJ for having to pay to have children when the traditional family he wanted didn't work out. It's a common procedure, he didn't "BUY" his children, he paid surrogate mothers to have them. I'm also not being judgmental toward Debbie for "giving away" the babies, Nobody here criticized MJ or Debbie for the way they had MJ's children, the only people passing judgment are the people who put titles like "MJ bought his children", but acting like Debbie is some sort of a saint is a bit extreme. Debbie is not beyond criticism only for the fact she was Michael's surrogate. I appreciate her for having his babies (the same way I appreciate Blanket's currently anonymous mother) but all the things she did after having them (and some of the things she did before that) are not exactly holy so we can talk about it without being called jealous fans because honestly the last thing I feel towards Debbie is jealousy. I agree that's sometimes the case with some fans towards some women in Michael's life, but that's not the case with Debbie Rowe, at least for me. You might as well say I'm jealous of Arnold Klein. And I'm not.

And please calm down because calling people "disgusting" for nothing is not the way to have a civil discussion.

 

[barbee0715]

^^its definitely not a civil discussion any more and just a suggestion: maybe the thread needs to be moved to Trials and Tribulations.

Hey, I'll admit that I'm wildly jealous of both of them and I would gladly have had Michael's children going back to the OTW/Triumph days. That feeling just got stronger every passing year. Therefore I'm not a real fan of either. But I don't hate them or love either of them. I kinda feel like I understand both of them for some strange reason.

I may not like certain things they did over time but I try to separate that.

 

[TinnyandOdd]

Reibish - Relaaaaaax. I side with Respect and co., but it's a conversation about a difference of opinions. If it really gets you this wound up, maybe you shouldn't post in a thread like this? I'm not saying that to offend you cause you seem like a rad person, and I don't want you to get all bent out of shape because we don't agree with you? Capiche?

 

[Zaitoon123]

can someone please tell me if Debbie was the real mother or was her eggs used and if his sperm was used or not I'm a huge MJ FAN and I cant help for that some people say it was not used and that someone else was and others say it was so i just want to get clarity on this please.

 

[mjchris]

can someone please tell me if Debbie was the real mother or was her eggs used and if his sperm was used or not I'm a huge MJ FAN and I cant help for that some people say it was not used and that someone else was and others say it was so i just want to get clarity on this please.

 

[wendijane]

oh my days

 

[Michaels Lover]

can someone please tell me if Debbie was the real mother or was her eggs used and if his sperm was used or not I'm a huge MJ FAN and I cant help for that some people say it was not used and that someone else was and others say it was so i just want to get clarity on this please.

You have got to be kidding me...