Why Did AEG/Randy Phillips???

[mello1]

I don't believe that at all...

Don't tell me you wouldn't have recorded hours upon hours of footage of MJ rehearsing if he was your client and you were told you could.
This was suppose to be his last tour... you can bet your ass I would record every waking moment I could to preserve the creation process of one of the greatest performers of all time.
Especially in this day an age where recording is cheap and easy.
Remember that these tours were going to be expensive for AEG to run (apparently). So it stands to reason that they would look to recoup some losses via other (most likely approved) avenues.
I seem to remember The Making of Thriller being released to help with the costs of Thriller back in the day so it's not that criminal of them...
I most certainly don't think they bumped Michael off so that they could sell some random concert rehearsal for a concert no one will ever see.

I agree. I do think that we have to make a distinction between neglience and a pre-meditated conspiracy. I do not think that there was some mass conspiracy to 'off' Michael Jackson because some crooked accountants at some corporate structure got together and decided that MJ was worth more dead than alive. Although there is no accounting for taste when they take advantage of that fact.

But I DO think that the greed of lots of $$$$$$$$ made a lot of people make decisions that were NOT in MJ's best interests. I think that MJ ultimately made the decision to tour in order to finally wipe out his remaining debts so that he and his children would be able to live comfortably without having the burden of obligation on their backs. While I'm sure that all of the other reasons stated were part of his decision, I think that wiping out that debt was at the heart of it.

I do think that there were people who have worked with MJ before who understood his money making potential and wanted back in and some of them did get back in. Others tried to lock him down and then yet others would come along and push them out of the door.

Michael once told Jessie Jackson in an interview while waiting for that horrible trial to start that 'there is a conspiracy all around me'. Indeed. I often wondered what in the world did he mean by that? I just think now that he meant that there were people on top of people on top of other people fighting over him -- all trying to control him for the $$$$$$$ that he could make for them.

And I think MJ was tired of the whole thing but didn't have the fight in him to push all of them away. He just seemed to be a magnet for attracting the worst people of all stripes around him. I've seen a small taste of that first hand in the ent business of how people come from under rocks trying to dig in because one has the talent or potential to make a great deal of money.

It's sick, lettme tell you that. You think that big time celebs have it all together, but you would be surprised at just how poorly some of them run their business. Unless you are very strong minded and very hands-on -- like Prince or Oprah Winfrey, there are a whole network of leeches just waiting to pounce on any weakness and MJ was just red meat to them.

Unfortunately. And once they get in, it's nearly impossible to get them out.

I believe that this is what MJ meant. It's like Bill Wither's song -- 'You just keep on using me..... until you use me up...'

 

[mello1]

I'm wondering if the insurance did already fire someone... I mean coverage of an overdose... for sure someone will lose a good payed insurance job?! or just change and start position at AEG?!
I would really like to know which insurance world wide ever covered such for someone.

Then again I could imagine Lloyds getting to know AEG hiring someone for 'feeding' Michael and all that... the way I know insurance business in the health field in Germany. Lloyds could sue AEG instead of paying right away at least try to get a new agreement out of court?!

Well one would have to know contracts to really know what will/could happen and we for sure never will.

But there simply is A HELL LOT OF NOT USUAL STUFF GOING ON THERE... which should at least be explained to Michaels family I hope.

Oh geez Mechi. I just now paid attention to your siggy. How awful! I'm so sry!

 

[Moth2aFlame]

I suppose the fact is that AEG/Randy Phillips are just like any other organisation of this day - they will rape, pillage and do whatever they can to make a buck.....

Look at the banking crisis, how institutions just f**ked people over for their own greed. Giving out money to 'ninjas'. Then they displace accountability and the wrong people get the blame and then joe bloggs suffers.

For those of us who are brought up with decency, and treating other people in a good honest caring fashion this behaviour is beyond belief. Honestly if they potentially could have some wheelchair bound granny on her death bed with the potential to make money they would manipulte, cojole and probs encourage drug enhancement to get her out there.

Randy Phillips also told lies on the news stating that there were at least four days between each gig and that no strain would have been on Michael to perform...

They ALL are Liars. I like the SOFT spin of Kill the Media is betraying so many of Michael Jackson Fans to believe he just Accidentally OverDose at 3AM in the Morning. Would it be a world ending SHOCK to one day find out Michael Jackson was NOT abusing Drugs on June 25, 2009 or that he was the Healthiest he had been in years. Everything that is being reported is HEARSAY from the people that surrounded Michael Jackson the last Months, Days and Hours of his Life, the same people who isolated him and feed him drugs probably even in his food, because the people who rehearsed with him, his trainer and his family that had dinner with him all say a completely different report. Im really SURPRISED at some of Michael Jackson Fans and their comments about him now he is dead but thats what forums are for Indiviuality. Michael Jackson was not the Man the media has made him out to be since his death and I wish he was alive to SUE everyone of their lying covering_up behinds. Michael had his "3" children living with him and I doubt seriously he was running home after midnite shooting dope. But if thats what they want to believe Im not going to argue with no one. I believe Michael Jackson did NOT accidentally overdose I believe Michael Jackson was MURDERED after he returned home that morning and I believe Michael died a Horrible death with People surrounding him and injecting him with drugs that Incapacitated him and for the next 7 hours injected him with Lethal Masses of Narcotics that sent his heart in Cardiac Arrest and then staging his home with Narcotics and IVs they had gotten over the last months in his name and in bogus names I give his killers credit they knew this wouldnt work without the media and Michael Jackson Fans turning on him, this is a classic murder nothing special its happening in poor neighborhoods and rich surburbs everyday. Like this person has posted people are stealing pennies and murdering people everywhere, killing for nothing, killing spouses and children for $100,000.00 Life Insurance Policies, why does it seem so riduculous that Michael Jackson was Murdered, simply because the Media TMZ, CNN, Nancy DisGrace, FOX and MSNBC tells you it was Overdose, well they are telling the story half right it was OVERDOSE MURDER, I just wish Walter Cronkite could have reported this story since he is reported as being the Most Honest Man in America, because America has a NewMedia Problem and its Bias, Misleading and Deception at its highest. No one cares anymore about anybody and its showing. No matter how much medical data, physics or common sense that comes out about Michael Jackson death people still want to believe the media instead of evidence that cannot be hid, so now people have to all agree to continue the lie, well I want be apart of this curse because thats all this will be. If Michael Jackson weighed 112 pounds he or no one else could have been doing the amount of Drugs that was found in his body and killed him. If the coroner is saying all his internal organs where healthy that means he was NOT abusing drugs and believe it or not if you rehears for hours trust me you will have NO problem going to sleep when you get home. Everyone can think what they want thats their right but to ignore facts and just go along with a lie that proves itself to be a lie will make one less than normal and thats putting it nice. All anyone that is accusing this man of killing himself have is Media and Tabloids not even the Coroner has said this man accidentally killed himself at 3am or anytime and even if he does I want it, I want believe it until Michael and God himself tell me. This world is so Evil I understand now why Murderers all across this country are getting away with Murder because they either are using a drug situation or lifestyle a person may have had 20 years ago or they know Cops and Coroners will not investigate and do their job anymore either because they dont want to or they have been paid off. We have Senators that running around having affairs from one end of this country to the other and people still want to think everything is alright well its not, Evil has taken over the Hearts of Mankind and they like it. Michael Jackson was never going to London AEG, Sony, knew that what did it matter to them anyway Michael Jackson is worth more to them Dead than Alive and they dont have to contend with him not giving them what they wanted anymore either, Michael was to much of a strwed business man for them so now they think they can run his Life without him that what the Fake Will is for, I will not be apart of this curse because I know in my heart this man was Murdered and someone will pay for his Life and from the looks of this tragedy its going to be alot of folks paying. LAPD Corrupts Offices should not even be investigating this anyway this should be turned over to the F.B.I., they can push this under the rug if they want to but God want push it nowhere but in there face.

 

[mello1]

Well, at the risk of offending people without intending it, conspiracy theories are a popular belief in the US, and I think that's partially because there's always so many half truths in the press, and also perhaps partially because it's a younger country.

But also he was at the top... and when you're at the top it's easy to become paranoid and watch for who might bump you off the top... whether it be off the charts or off the planet.

I personally don't want his legacy to be about the surroundings of his death.
I just really don't want Michael's death to be shadowed in conspiracy or doubts and what if's and who did it's like Monroe's and JFKs

No it's popular because a lot of peeps don't ever tell the whole truth about things...

But don't get me started! :cheeky:

 

[myfavouritewintercoat]

rumours now they got paid £30 million for the rehearsal footage... http://www.nme.com/news/nme/46211

A film based on the 80 hours of rehearsal footage for Michael Jackson's London O2 Arena residency, which had been due to kick off earlier this month until the singer passed away, is set to be released by Sony Pictures.

The company is expected to pay over £30 million to promoters AEG Entertainment, who own the rights to the footage, reports Variety.

Kenny Ortega, who directed the hit film 'High School Musical', is expected to helm the project.

As well as rehearsal footage the film will reportedly feature at least three videos which had been set to broadcast during the late singer's shows in the UK capital, and will be released before the end of the year.

One of the videos will be an alternative version of Jackson's iconic music video for 'Thriller'. The videos were meant to be presented in 3D, but it has not been revealed whether the film will present them in the format.

Meanwhile, a new 'stripped-down' compilation album featuring 11 new mixes of Jackson's hits taken from original Motown session tapes, both solo and with The Jackson 5, has been released today (July 20).

The tracklisting of 'Michael Jackson: The Motown 50 Mixes' is:

'I'll Be There'
'Ben'
'Who's Loving You'
'Ain't No Sunshine'
'I Want You Back'
'ABC'
'We've Got A Good Thing Going'
'With A Child's Heart'
'Darling Dear'
'Got To Be There'
'Never Can Say Goodbye'



This is why I am suspicious of the 'ever so nice all the time' Kenny Ortega as well as Randy. I'm not saying he did anything but that he might know something. Why would he tell anyone if he did when he is going to be paid lots to help with this film...

 

[mello1]

I believe Michael Jackson did NOT accidentally overdose I believe Michael Jackson was MURDERED after he returned home that morning and I believe Michael died a Horrible death with People surrounding him and injecting him with drugs that Incapacitated him and for the next 7 hours injected him with Lethal Masses of Narcotics that sent his heart in Cardiac Arrest and then staging his home with Narcotics and IVs they had gotten over the last months in his name in bogus names I give them his killers credit they knew this wouldnt work without the media and Michael Jackson Fans turning on him,

So you do believe that there was a corporate conspiracy to off MJ and that he was perfectly healthy and he went home and his handlers just killed him on the spot. And this was done because they can make more money off of him dead.

Well, I don't agree with that theory, but I do agree that the media is spinning this 'MJ is a Junkie' story just a little to tough for my comfort.

 

[mello1]

Aw shyt... Sony Pictures, a division of the Sony ENT Corp., that includes Sony Music and ATV/Sony cat?

Well... shyt. If this is true, then I may just have to don the tin hat. I was really trying to not go there... really.

 

[Soso Deaf]

i don't think there was a corporate conspiracy but i do think that those are now benefiting from him and this shows he's more profitable dead than alive b/c now there's all sorts of money making opportunities.it's obvious, at least to me, that so many turned a blind eye due to greed and didn't look out for him.

 

[Ohood]

look what his brother said about how Michael was very excited about these concerts:


By PETE SAMSON
US Editor

Published: Today
HEARTBROKEN Jermaine Jackson has told how he clung to his dead brother's hand, showered his face with kisses - and asked him: "Why did you go? What do you want me to do?"

The 54-year-old former Jackson 5 star choked back tears as he described the moment he said goodbye to his late brother Michael at his hospital bedside.


Less than two weeks before his sudden death Michael was in good spirits at a family party thrown by Jermaine and sister Janet for their mum Katherine and dad Joe.


Tragic


As Michael left the Hollywood restaurant, his last words to the family were: "See you at the O2" - the venue for his string of 50 London concerts which had been due to begin this month.


But on June 25 Jermaine received a call telling him 50-year-old Michael had been rushed to hospital. And less than an hour later his mum Katherine, 79, broke the tragic news that the star was dead.


Jermaine rushed to the UCLA Medical Centre to hold his beloved brother for one final time. And he revealed yesterday: "On the day we got the news, my wife and I were on the other side of the city doing some business and my wife's phone rang.




Tearful ... Jermaine at memorial service for brother
"It was a journalist saying, 'Do you know anything about your brother Michael being rushed to hospital?' I just said 'No'.


"I immediately called my mother and she said she was on her way to hospital but hadn't got there yet.


"Around 45 minutes went by and during that time Janet called me because she'd heard about it. Then an attorney of mine called. He just said, 'It's pretty bad'.


"That's when I called my mother back and she just said, 'He's dead'. I'll never forget the tone of her voice - I've never heard that tone before. It was just awful. I just broke down in tears.


"My wife and I rushed across town. I got there as fast as I could. I was an hour away but got there really quickly.


"We had to take so many freeways and as we got closer to the UCLA we saw all the helicopters in the sky and the streets were all blocked off - that's how we knew he was there.


"The security let us through and, once I got inside, I went to the emergency part. My mother and my cousin were there, and the doctor.


"I went straight to my mother first. I caressed her and held her - and then I wanted to see Michael.


"It was so tough for me to see him lifeless and breathless - just lying there. So I went inside and I just held his hand, kissed him a lot and cried.


"We believe as Muslims that his spirit is very much with us, he is very much alive. It was just the body, just a shell. That helped me a lot.


"Then it hit me. Being his brother and the union we have shared as the Jackson 5 for so many years. It hit me I had lost my brother and what we had all fought for - the unity.




Tragic ... Michael in rehearsals days before he died
"I just said, 'Michael, what do you want me to do? Michael, I love you and I miss you so much. Why did you go'?


"I told him, 'We will keep the legacy going. We will keep it dignified as you kept it. We will be a strong family and we won't let this be a situation which is the beginning of a breakdown of the family'. I found myself talking to him in the sky. It's a strange thing but I feel he's everywhere. His message is so powerful - and what he stood for. I feel that he hears me. I'm not expecting an answer back from him, but I feel that he hears me. It gets emotional, but I really feel that he's all around."


Jermaine was forced to say a premature goodbye to his brother less than two weeks after their final meeting - a happy family scene in a Hollywood restaurant. And Jermaine revealed: "I had seen him before the rehearsals, when my sister Janet and I planned a surprise party for my mother and father. They walked in and everyone was there. We had food and gathered together and Michael was there with his children and he looked good.


"He's always been thin so that didn't surprise me, but he was so excited about performing at the O2. Michael looked happy and was talking to everyone. The next generation of Jacksons were having their pictures taken with him.


"Of course all the kids migrate to him, saying, 'Michael, Michael'. He was sitting across from our brother Jackie and his wife and, when it was time to go, he said: 'See you guys at the O2'. That was the last time I saw him. I remember singing a song with him and making harmonies. I told him what a great job he did singing it and he said, 'That means a lot to me coming from you'.


"Then a week and a half later we got a call and he had gone."



Jermaine also revealed his guitarist son Jeremy had been due to join Michael on stage for his London comeback shows. The 22-year-old was invited to join the extravaganza weeks before Michael died. Jermaine said: "Michael was always looking to do something different, something bigger.


"He even told my son Jeremy that he wanted him to perform with him. And then there was a note they found in his house that said, 'Jeremy's going to come on stage and play guitar'.


Advertisement

Jeremy has it and is treasuring it." Jermaine insisted his brother was raring to go for his UK concerts. He said: "It was all in England which he loves, there was a huge castle set up for him. The night before he died he was hugging the musicians and laughing and saying, 'Let's do this'. He knew he could do this."


Jermaine added: "They were bringing 3D to the stage for the first time with Earth Song and Thriller and all these things jumping out at you. New arrangements, amazing stuff. I feel for all his fans in the UK because I'm a fan.


"I just wish I would have seen that show because I know he was ready and he knew he was ready too."

 

[snowhite]

Obviously MJ did NOT know his limits. If he did, he would still be alive today. But I do believe that he understood his OBLIGATIONS, and with that came the pressure and the need above all else to push his limits beyond his standing.

this a bit off-topic but I wanted to say I always thought his work ethic came from the way he was raised from his childhood - despite all the abuse he was suffering he had to be perfect on stage and that mentality stayed with him throughout his life because he never got rid of the pressure. That's what he was taught no matter what just go ahead with it, sick overworked it doesn't matter it was all about pleasing and entertaining others...he needed someone to tell him to take it easy but he was surrounded by hungry sharks

 

[Moth2aFlame]

So you do believe that there was a corporate conspiracy to off MJ and that he was perfectly healthy and he went home and his handlers just killed him on the spot. And this was done because they can make more money off of him dead.

Well, I don't agree with that theory, but I do agree that the media is spinning this 'MJ is a Junkie' story just a little to tough for my comfort.

Yes I do believe Michael Jackson was Murdered I dont believe he Accendentally Overdose, so what is your theory then? As some had posted all over the net there is no reason for Michael Jackson to be dead today except Murder. Michael was due to board a plane the very next Friday to London and all the facts in this case say Murder and Murder Conspiracy to me but people had made the word "Conspriracy" taboo, so I would rather say it was a well planned Murder that involves alot of people in the Music Industry, Accountanting and Law Firms and Medical Practices. Everyone is entitled to beleive like they want everybody dont always agree I was told teeth and tongue fall out sometimes too, but there are alot of people who no longer believe Michael Jackson went home after midnite on the morning of June 25, 2009 and hooked himself up to an IV then started injecting himself with massive amounts of Narcotics. Because to most people with understanding of medicine and just common sense it just want fly and certainly when these 2 Charlatans called Executors finish they will show people what this is really all about and none of you thats helping them will get paid like they are and I know they appreiate your help because they couldnt have pulled it off without you, but you know nowadays we can make people believe fishes walk on land. Everyone watching this is going to believe Michael Jackson killed himself or he was Murdered there is no in between, to say Doctors ENABLED him still says he killed himself and I just dont think Michael was in the Mood and that happy about killing himself on that morning of June 25, 2009, if he has been a Junkie for 20 years like the Media is protraying him, Junkies know their candy and they know how much to take, so really to me the media is really making people to look .......... that want to believe he Accendtially OverDose but then again people dont mind looking like a ........ nowadays as long as everyone else standing next to them look the same. Me myself Im like Michael I like looking Different.

 

[classic]

rumours now they got paid £30 million for the rehearsal footage... http://www.nme.com/news/nme/46211

A film based on the 80 hours of rehearsal footage for Michael Jackson's London O2 Arena residency, which had been due to kick off earlier this month until the singer passed away, is set to be released by Sony Pictures.

The company is expected to pay over £30 million to promoters AEG Entertainment, who own the rights to the footage, reports Variety.

Kenny Ortega, who directed the hit film 'High School Musical', is expected to helm the project.

As well as rehearsal footage the film will reportedly feature at least three videos which had been set to broadcast during the late singer's shows in the UK capital, and will be released before the end of the year.

One of the videos will be an alternative version of Jackson's iconic music video for 'Thriller'. The videos were meant to be presented in 3D, but it has not been revealed whether the film will present them in the format.

Meanwhile, a new 'stripped-down' compilation album featuring 11 new mixes of Jackson's hits taken from original Motown session tapes, both solo and with The Jackson 5, has been released today (July 20).

The tracklisting of 'Michael Jackson: The Motown 50 Mixes' is:

'I'll Be There'
'Ben'
'Who's Loving You'
'Ain't No Sunshine'
'I Want You Back'
'ABC'
'We've Got A Good Thing Going'
'With A Child's Heart'
'Darling Dear'
'Got To Be There'
'Never Can Say Goodbye'



This is why I am suspicious of the 'ever so nice all the time' Kenny Ortega as well as Randy. I'm not saying he did anything but that he might know something. Why would he tell anyone if he did when he is going to be paid lots to help with this film...

You've also got to think from the position that Kenny Ortega is a director; it is what he does just as Michael's art was for him. It would be how Ortega shows support and tribute for Michael just as doing a song for someone would have been Michael's natural way of doing so. Didn't Michael do Gone Too Soon after Ryan White passed away? I would never say that he was trying to capitalize or profit from it thought profits were made from that song. It was just his natural way to show love for someone he cared about. The same would have to be allowed for others.

 

[classic]

i don't think there was a corporate conspiracy but i do think that those are now benefiting from him and this shows he's more profitable dead than alive b/c now there's all sorts of money making opportunities.it's obvious, at least to me, that so many turned a blind eye due to greed and didn't look out for him.

Michael is not worth more dead than alive.

Any artist worth salt is going to make a lot of money with image and name after death. That goes without saying and they all know it; that is why many do indeed hold back recordings, etc. That doesn't mean that they are really worth more in death in terms of current sponsors, etc.

If we go with what Mello1 said about paying off the debt being a primary reason for Michael, then we would have to throw him into the mix of who didn't look out for him due to money. If we do find out that the Diprivan story is true and that the nurse practitioner actually warned him of the dangers, should be then say that he turned a blind eye to his own health and the well-being of his children? Or do people understand that at times what things look like in hindsight is different compared to being caught in the moment and that it doesn't always translate into greed, power, or not caring?

 

[classic]

this a bit off-topic but I wanted to say I always thought his work ethic came from the way he was raised from his childhood - despite all the abuse he was suffering he had to be perfect on stage and that mentality stayed with him throughout his life because he never got rid of the pressure. That's what he was taught no matter what just go ahead with it, sick overworked it doesn't matter it was all about pleasing and entertaining others...he needed someone to tell him to take it easy but he was surrounded by hungry sharks

But, Michael has always been one to aim for over the top with his projects. That would be more self-placed stress than getting it from others.

 

[Moth2aFlame]

Michael is not worth more dead than alive.

Any artist worth salt is going to make a lot of money with image and name after death. That goes without saying and they all know it; that is why many do indeed hold back recordings, etc. That doesn't mean that they are really worth more in death in terms of current sponsors, etc.

If we go with what Mello1 said about paying off the debt being a primary reason for Michael, then we would have to throw him into the mix of who didn't look out for him due to money. If we do find out that the Diprivan story is true and that the nurse practitioner actually warned him of the dangers, should be then say that he turned a blind eye to his own health and the well-being of his children? Or do people understand that at times what things look like in hindsight is different compared to being caught in the moment and that it doesn't always translate into greed, power, or not caring?

You know anyone can Murder someone and put whatever they want in their home and in their body they have total access to that person's body and their home when murdering that person happens everyday in every state in America. So finding anything in that home doesnt prove anything to me just those who need anything but the Truth.

 

[Mechi]

I am not sure... I could imagine different scenarios...

- a conspiracy (it's a hell lot of money in the game)
- an accidential overdose
a) with Michael knowing the risk and still wanting the medication
b) with Michael not knowing the risk

Fact is for me:
- the incompetence of the doctor

I want Dr. Murray to be held accountable for
a) not able to see the risk his patient was in
b) giving medication at home which are only allowed in the hospital,
c) probably overdosing that medication
d) not performing CPR correct
e) not calling the emergency at the very moment, means before CPR is even started

I want Lloyds of London to investigate:
- on the basis of fans whitnesses (and I've sent them Marikas email, hope that's ok though as it was publicized here?! I'm sorry I should have sent a pm?! I've included in that email that they are welcome to surf this forum for more information) who saw Michael wasn't ok a few days before his death
- on the basis of the nurse whitness who was called and questioned cuz Michael wasn't feeling well (half cold/half hot)
- the education and aprobation of the doctor based on his wrongdoing
- his role in their own policy (why AEG was paying such a salery to a doctor when Michael passed his insurance physical exam with flying colors?!)
- what AEG officials must have known about Michaels health status/fitness to be able to do the shows in London. If they could know, they didn't tell the insurance, based on the autopsy and toxicology results in case those have to be open for an insurance (could/should be their policy)
- who on earth and why was the coverage of an overdose done by their insurance

therefore I've attached my archiv of R.P. interviews in the press just for their friendly interest of cuz.

didn't get a reaction just an automatically 'thank you' mail and I'm not even counting with it. I just thought if AEG is doing business as usual the insurance should do also their business. I hope they do know all that already of cuz and are coming to their own conclusions but I thought it wouldn't be bad to tell them. Don't worry I've formatted that email a bit better! *shrugs*

 

[mello1]

That interview with Jermaine was just gut wrenching...

Someone sent me this. I don't know if I can watch it though...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ty1Z9KzqvCc

 

[mello1]

Michael is not worth more dead than alive.

Any artist worth salt is going to make a lot of money with image and name after death. That goes without saying and they all know it; that is why many do indeed hold back recordings, etc. That doesn't mean that they are really worth more in death in terms of current sponsors, etc.

If we go with what Mello1 said about paying off the debt being a primary reason for Michael, then we would have to throw him into the mix of who didn't look out for him due to money. If we do find out that the Diprivan story is true and that the nurse practitioner actually warned him of the dangers, should be then say that he turned a blind eye to his own health and the well-being of his children? Or do people understand that at times what things look like in hindsight is different compared to being caught in the moment and that it doesn't always translate into greed, power, or not caring?

I think only time will tell about his worth. I think that over time, unfortunately, he will be.

 

[myfavouritewintercoat]

You've also got to think from the position that Kenny Ortega is a director; it is what he does just as Michael's art was for him. It would be how Ortega shows support and tribute for Michael just as doing a song for someone would have been Michael's natural way of doing so. Didn't Michael do Gone Too Soon after Ryan White passed away? I would never say that he was trying to capitalize or profit from it thought profits were made from that song. It was just his natural way to show love for someone he cared about. The same would have to be allowed for others.

I see what you are saying and I'm really split in my mind between that view and what I said before.

 

[myfavouritewintercoat]

But, Michael has always been one to aim for over the top with his projects. That would be more self-placed stress than getting it from others.

This could be true... Alot of me thinks its all suss as the doc did everything wrong(on purpose?!) but being a fellow Virgo we are so hard on ourselves, too much so. Perfectionists. I just don't think he'd be that silly to let himself risk his life though due to the 3 lovely children that were his world.

 

[Moth2aFlame]

I think only time will tell about his worth. I think that over time, unfortunately, he will be.

I dont know wheter its just too overwhelming for some to believe or just to horrible to imagine what has happened but whereever Michael Jackson Bank balance is today it will grow into Billions and this is what the fight is over is WHO will really own this, thats why they created the FAKE WILL making them Executors. They have distracted most people in WHAT killed Michael; everybody knows now what Killed Michael, even the Coroner is having problems calling this because a functioning addict can do things everyday but not with the amout of drugs in his body, they put to MUCH in his body to call it an Accident so the Coroner either has to tell the Truth and call it Murder or he has to ignore his training his schooling his education and go with the flow and if he does he just may loose his Job because more than likely the Coroner was going to call this the next day after death, but the Jackson picked up Michael's body and didnt tell them they where getting a 2nd Autopsy, that throwed everything up in the air and Im glad they didnt let LAPD know they where getting that second Autopsy this case is delayed caused LAPD dont know what to do now and they are all starting to smell real fishy now anyway.

 

[myfavouritewintercoat]

I know this is from the dreaded TMZ... I'm not saying any of it is true - I just hope no element of truth is in it and Katherine is being manipulated into making a bad decision... have McMillan and Levitch got her best interests at heart...???


http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/19/michae...probate-court/
Sources connected to Michael Jackson's family tell us some family members as well as [COLOR=#29A256 ! important][COLOR=#29A256 ! important]lawyers[/color][/color] for the estate are ticked off at some legal eagles who may be trying to start a legal war.

Attorneys Londell McMillan and Burt Levitch do not represent Michael's estate -- they represent Katherine Jackson personally. They filed legal papers Friday asking a judge to rule if Katherine can object to the appointment of the executors named in Michael's will and still collect the [COLOR=#29A256 ! important][COLOR=#29A256 ! important]money[/color][/color] her son left her.

Here's the issue. There's a "no contest" clause in the will, meaning anyone who files objections to the will automatically gets no money. McMillan and Levitch want to know if the "no contest" clause would apply if Katherine only objects to the executors Michael chose.

Here's what's bugging some family members and the lawyers representing the estate ... the will gives Katherine 40% of Michael's estate, so she can't be upset about that. The will names Katherine [COLOR=#29A256 ! important][COLOR=#29A256 ! important]guardian[/color][/color] for the children .. again, that's what she wants. And the named executors -- John Branca and John McClain -- are Michael's longtime, trusted advisors and friends.

So why would Katherine object to the will or the executors? A lot of people who are in the middle of it all feel Katherine is being manipulated and doesn't really understand the implications of mounting a legal challenge.

So why are McMillan and Levitch kicking up dust?

 

[Soso Deaf]

Michael is not worth more dead than alive.

Any artist worth salt is going to make a lot of money with image and name after death. That goes without saying and they all know it; that is why many do indeed hold back recordings, etc. That doesn't mean that they are really worth more in death in terms of current sponsors, etc.

If we go with what Mello1 said about paying off the debt being a primary reason for Michael, then we would have to throw him into the mix of who didn't look out for him due to money. If we do find out that the Diprivan story is true and that the nurse practitioner actually warned him of the dangers, should be then say that he turned a blind eye to his own health and the well-being of his children? Or do people understand that at times what things look like in hindsight is different compared to being caught in the moment and that it doesn't always translate into greed, power, or not caring?

i disagree! lol elvis was only worth a million dollars when he died. his ex turned him into a mulit million dollar enterprise.
it was marketing his image and licensing his name to anything and every thing that made him such a durable icon. if they didn't it's not like he would fade away but he wouldn't be as prevalent as he is now.and kenny's motives may be totally different. u can't compare gts to what's going on. mj wrote it for a friend. he didn't put on a show and do something in his honor. he dedicated it to ryan.IF ko is involved in a mj tribute, it'll be something he'll be paid for. and if randy phillips himself said they had to hire someone to help FEED mj and make sure he ATE then please....that's saying it all

 

[Autumn II]

I've posted this same thing before, but will state my position again because the threads are very long.

No one is saying "AEG killed Michael." But there is enough that doesn't add up, that it's worth exploring. Some can continue to post and post that it's best to wait for an "official" report. Actually, we have a right to discuss and will continue, regardless. If these types of theads make people uncomfortable or upset. . and I can understand that, I'd avise not reading or posting in them, for the sake of those who DO have concerns, and minds desirous and capable of sifting through the available information. This is not that different than it was during the trial, when MJJF did a LOT of good.

"Authorities" and "officlal" reports include LAPD. If anyone has information that they are, or are not, corrupt, and have always treated Michael well, that's great. I'd love to hear it. Otherwise, some fans feel the need to continue to speculate and brain-storm, for the sake of justice for Michael's children.

Here is the primary dilemma. There are two diametrically opposed sets of "information." One comes largely from the AEG folks, that Michael was in great shape and ready to perform. The other comes largely from some of Michael's staff, and from fans, and his family. Whether or not you believe Latoya, who was interviewed by a tabloid, is up to you. Whether or not you believe fans over AEG and the LAPD, is up to you. If you have learned nothing else from the trial, I hope you have learned that "official" reports can be manipulated. Right?

So the second piece of information was that Michael was not well, was too thin, and had only agreed to do ten shows, but someone signed FOR him and he was suddenly obligated to do fifty. He didn't want to let fans down. He would have had injunctions against future performances it he'd canceled. He tried. And then he died, nearly on the eve of his going to London.

Both sets of information cannot be true. He was fine, or he was not fine. Hence, we continue to ask questions and to THINK.

Some say it makes no sense for his death to have been deliberate. That AEG would make more from him alive than dead. Here is my response to that:

AEG had a massive insurance policy on Michael. They have said they were only insured for thirty shows, however. (Who else had insurance policies on him? Time will tell.) What if they expected him to be able to complete only a few of the shows? They would have lost huge amounts of money. He passed a physical, which undoubtedly would have included drug testing. The insurance policy specified "drug overdose." That is highly unusual. They stood to gain more if he died, and I believe that.

Here are questions/comments.

How could have Michael have passed a physical, if he was not well? Someone else took it for him? I'm just speculating, but that is not impossible if the insurance company doctor had never met him face-to-face. Or, he was well then, but not recently, after grueling rehearsals and little sleep? Or, the doctor was paid a LOT by someone, to pass him. All this is possible. If someone has proof that it's NOT possible, I'd love to hear it.

The doctor was outrageously incompetant, in my opinion. He DID something. No one has said Michael died of natural causes. Murray waited thirty minutes before calling 911, and that is INSANE. He was a cardiologist, but didn't have the knowledge of CPR that the average Boy Scout has? Or did he not really try? Was Michael already gone, but he wanted to make sure of that before calling paramedics? That he did not have a phone or know the address is INSANE, or deliberate. . . . He said he did CPR with one hand behind Michael's back because Michael was FRAIL. The doctor said that. Did we not READ that? The doctor himself said, "Michael was frail." That kind of CPR might be given to a thirty-pound toddler, but never an adult.

And there is more. The surveillance tapes have DISAPPEARED. That in itself is highly suspicious. Can anyone say it's NOT suspicious? WHO really hired the doctor/chose him? AEG says Michael did. How do we know that? We don't. Michael is not here to refute that.

How could AEG make more money with Michael dead? If they did not expect him to have the stamina to complete the fifty shows, they would make MORE with him gone. There is the insurance money. There are some fans who would rather keep the tickets than have refunds (not blaming fans here. I understand.) There is immense product marketing, with rehearsal footage and other things. There has been no indication that I've seen that this money goes to the estate. If there is, I'd love to see it.

LAPD took down the crime-scene tape way too soon, and access to the house was allowed. Why did they do this? It WAS a suspicious death.

With this many questions, how can we NOT try to speculate? This was MICHAEL. We loved him. Personally, I would like to see the truth come out, whatever it is, for the sake of justice for his children. I want accountability, and i want these questions ANSWERED.

peace-out,

Victoria

 

[mello1]

I dont know wheter its just too overwhelming for some to believe or just to horrible to imagine what has happened but whereever Michael Jackson Bank balance is today it will grow into Billions and this is what the fight is over is WHO will really own this, thats why they created the FAKE WILL making them Executors. They have distracted most people in WHAT killed Michael; everybody knows now what Killed Michael, even the Coroner is having problems calling this because a functioning addict can do things everyday but not with the amout of drugs in his body, they put to MUCH in his body to call it an Accident so the Coroner either has to tell the Truth and call it Murder or he has to ignore his training his schooling his education and go with the flow and if he does he just may loose his Job because more than likely the Coroner was going to call this the next day after death, but the Jackson picked up Michael's body and didnt tell them they where getting a 2nd Autopsy, that throwed everything up in the air and Im glad they didnt let LAPD know they where getting that second Autopsy this case is delayed caused LAPD dont know what to do now and they are all starting to smell real fishy now anyway.

I'm listening. You make sense on these points. But I will hold back. For now.

 

[Mechi]

well I do not really trust the coroner... but when lloyds of london is as good an insurance as it is said there should already stand someone aside from the coroner.
Lloyds just has 17.5 million more reasons to really investigate than the LAPD.

 

[classic]

I dont know wheter its just too overwhelming for some to believe or just to horrible to imagine what has happened but whereever Michael Jackson Bank balance is today it will grow into Billions and this is what the fight is over is WHO will really own this, thats why they created the FAKE WILL making them Executors. They have distracted most people in WHAT killed Michael; everybody knows now what Killed Michael, even the Coroner is having problems calling this because a functioning addict can do things everyday but not with the amout of drugs in his body, they put to MUCH in his body to call it an Accident so the Coroner either has to tell the Truth and call it Murder or he has to ignore his training his schooling his education and go with the flow and if he does he just may loose his Job because more than likely the Coroner was going to call this the next day after death, but the Jackson picked up Michael's body and didnt tell them they where getting a 2nd Autopsy, that throwed everything up in the air and Im glad they didnt let LAPD know they where getting that second Autopsy this case is delayed caused LAPD dont know what to do now and they are all starting to smell real fishy now anyway.

Proof that the will is fake?

 

[classic]

I see what you are saying and I'm really split in my mind between that view and what I said before.

Oh I understand. Been there done that and still doing it. But, there are so many ways this could have twisted and turned and we are still without some pertinent information.

But in the end, Michael was working on this project and making it his own. I don't want it to be marred with accusations unless absolutely proved; otherwise, to me, it is marring a part of Michael's work because that is what it was. The same goes for those people he trusted to work with on this project.

Right now I really want to know more about the doctor because that is where things seemed so screwy even by statements made by his own lawyer. It is still unbelievable the time that passed before the 911 call. Also, if he had administered anything to him, just tell the family but his being evasive with them at this point is not very professional at all; why?
One that thing that is strange also is how many people claimed not to have known of him beforehand. And was Michael sick or not that Sunday prior; if he was who eventually treated him because I have a hard time thinking he would let something like that just hopefully go away. And if the doctor did administer Diprivan, why on earth did he have to "discover" Michael; he should have been there every moment monitoring. We can talk all we want to about what others saw or didn't see and how it affected their decision making. In the end, if there was an actual doctor present, he should have been doing what was medically necessary and not taking anything else under consideration, including going with Michael's requests if they were not medically appropriate. That is why until questions are answered and found out concerning him, nothing else is really going to fall into place.

 

[classic]

I think only time will tell about his worth. I think that over time, unfortunately, he will be.

Oh, he will be worth a fortune now. Yes, I agree. But, that is like any artist with a cultural impact. He can and probably will surpass any other artist who has passed away simply because I think that people will continue to want to feel his musically and cultural impact more so than others; he is relatable in ways and to people many of the others weren't.

I was just saying that in terms of the profits and money based on public demand, that would really have been sketchy to some prior to Michael's death. I think that many had indeed swallowed the media kool-aid and thought that no one would care about Michael. I think that more (not including the general public) were absolutely surprised by the reaction and scope than are willing to admit it. I think that some would have expected the same type and level of reaction as that that came during the trial--fans and a few celebrities. But, not at all. When everyone was actually confronted with the fact that this man that was just always there and always came back no matter what (which I think a lot of the public felt in terms of the trial) was no longer here and couldn't come back, the world had to speak up. And now the value is seen by many in the industry who didn't necessarily see it in foresight.

 

[classic]

i disagree! lol elvis was only worth a million dollars when he died. his ex turned him into a mulit million dollar enterprise.
it was marketing his image and licensing his name to anything and every thing that made him such a durable icon. if they didn't it's not like he would fade away but he wouldn't be as prevalent as he is now.and kenny's motives may be totally different. u can't compare gts to what's going on. mj wrote it for a friend. he didn't put on a show and do something in his honor. he dedicated it to ryan.IF ko is involved in a mj tribute, it'll be something he'll be paid for. and if randy phillips himself said they had to hire someone to help FEED mj and make sure he ATE then please....that's saying it all

But, Michael did profit from GTS so how is it different other than who is doing it. Kenny may have considered Michael his friend and it appeared that there was at least a deep professional friendship there if he was the one that Michael immediately reached out to for this. Again, Michael did what is his primary art form to honr Ryan White. The same could be said for Kenny Ortega. The fact that he gets paid for it means that he can't necessarily devote "X" amount of his time to this without payment. That doesn't mean he doesn't feel the same level of loss. Also, it would be like saying that any thing the family does as tribute should not result in profit. We can't really say that because at some point an interview or appearance will be paid for. Does it then diminish any honors that they are trying to do?

And again, there was obviously some concern if they went to the length of getting someone to monitor his eating. But, they could only do that on set with Michael's assistance. I don't think anyone was going to literally tie him down and force feed him. We don't know what Michael's responses were to them and their insistence that he eat. What if he did put them off with excuses? What exactly should they have done? We can sit and have scenarios in our mind of what and when we would have done something; but, we can never know reality unless Michael himself was injected into it to make his responses to our action-not what we assume or hope his responses would be.

My point really was if that is going to be a standard for those on set even if there becomes known that they did try to do what they could while still respecting Michael's wishes and trusting what he said and what they knew of him from previous personal long-term experience, then someone is going to eventually say the same about Michael's actions and how it is now affecting his children. Someone will eventually say that if Michael feared touring because of the physical strain and how he even stated once that it would kill him, then he shouldn't have done it--even if it meant bankruptcy--because he had three children to raise; someone could say that he placed finances before his children by risking his life like this. And to that I would say "Go to Hell." But, just know that just like everyone else's actions in hindsight without all facts can be questioned and boiled down to greed only without true concern, then so can it be done to Michael. It wouldn't be fair to either.