Why did MJ not support Invincible with a tour?

[HIStoric]

There was virtually NO PROMTION for Invincible. Nothing to announce his album in the stores,no posters, no promo extras,etc. There were NO adverts or commercials from Sony about the album. Mottola was sabotaging Invincible every way that he could.

Would you look at that. A giant billboard for Invincible overlooking Times Square.

Oooooh a television commercial!

Wow a promo poster for stores in Japan!

Some more promo posters!

Shame there was absolutely no advertising though. You know what would've been cool? If Sony had MJ go do a signing at a prominent store or something!

In all seriousness, I can see some valid points from both parties but overall the whole Sony/Invincible thing was a definite cringe-fest all around.

 

[nickzark]

There was promotion but not so big like other years.Only one videclip.Come on.This was not promotion from Sony.

 

[Bringing Brighter Days]

I dont see how Sony did not promote Invincible we they spent 30 million to record it and another 30 million to promote it.

 

[HIStoric]

There was promotion but not so big like other years.Only one videclip.Come on.This was not promotion from Sony.

*shrugs* After numerous delays by MJ and having spent waaaaay more money on the album than any other in history (still yet to be beaten by a long shot), I can see why they wouldn't be rushing to spend as much as they had in previous years.

 

[somewhereinthedark]

I dont see how Sony did not promote Invincible we they spent 30 million to record it and another 30 million to promote it.

"We" spent?.The 30 million was what Mottola/Sony leaked to the media. I don't believe 30 million was spent to record Invincible. I certainly don't believe 30 million was spent to promote it. Now, if Mottola had said they spent 30 million to promote HIStory, I would have believed it. There was no promotion where I live. Most people didn't know that he was releasing an album because there was no promotion from Sony. R&B started playing "Butterflies" and that one song spurred sales because not only did R&B radio LOVE that song, the R& B. Audience loved it. Radio played "Butterflies", "Break of Dawn", YRMR, and "Heaven Can Wait" in heavy rotation. I know people who had not bought a MJ album in years who went out and bought Invincible.
The bottom line is that Michael promoted Invincible, Sony did basically nothing but try to sabotage the album WITH the help of the media. AND there was no way that 30 million was spent to promote it . That's the BS that Mottola spread in order to justify the "devilish" deeds that he was doing.

 

[somewhereinthedark]

Would you look at that. A giant billboard for Invincible overlooking Times Square.

Oooooh a television commercial!

Wow a promo poster for stores in Japan!

Some more promo posters!

Shame there was absolutely no advertising though. You know what would've been cool? If Sony had MJ go do a signing at a prominent store or something!

In all seriousness, I can see some valid points from both parties but overall the whole Sony/Invincible thing was a definite cringe-fest all around.

WOW!!! Thirty MILLION dollars in promotion. Surely you jest. There is no way that what you posted in those links equated to 30 million dollars.

 

[somewhereinthedark]

Tommy Matolla killed Invincble

Thank you!!!

 

[HIStoric]

WOW!!! Thirty MILLION dollars in promotion. Surely you jest. There is no way that what you posted in those links equated to 30 million dollars.

Then again, I wasn't the one who said they spent 30,000,000 million in promotion. You're directing your reply at the wrong person

 

[MAQ]

I think that 30 million dollar figure was for HIStory.

You have to understand that everything related to MJ is blown way out of proportion just to make him look bad. In comparison to MJ's earlier albums, Invincible got almost no promotion! And that is a fact. Idk about the bus incident but it's not like no other artist did some stupid shit. In fact many rock stars used to piss in broom buckets just to show how badass they are - none of those things are mentioned. And that's why I disagree with anyone who says MJ crossed a line. Eminem flipped at a member of the audience when he was booed while recieving an award. None of that stuff gets mentioned in the news. But everyone gangs up on MJ just because he called Motolla "the devil" because the latter didn't promote his album.

 

[HIStoric]

I think that 30 million dollar figure was for HIStory.

Nah I've seen it everywhere for Invincible's production budget, though HIStory probably had something that high for it's promotion budget alone. Invincible's promotion budget though? No way.

I don't believe 30 million was spent to record Invincible.

I can certainly imagine it being very expensive. It took Michael four long years to record that album, from first take to final take. Over the years I've read about how he moved every so often and always had the best studios booked out, ready for him to use even if he didn't use them (seems like there were eleven studios this album was recorded in). Studio time can get pretty expensive, especially over a long period of time (of course I don't expect him to have all those studios booked out for 4 years in a row, but I can imagine Michael booking many of them at one time). Michael also always insisted working with the best of the best and there are a crazy number of writers and producers who worked on this album. 11 extra producers and according to the album credits a good.... 28 extra writers?? Then you have the samples of Biggie Smalls and Rod Serling, no idea how much these samples costed but it'd still add up.

There might be some other things I'm too tired to think of, but as far as I'm aware, Michael never ever countered the claim when he was protesting against Sony as well. I obviously wouldn't have a clue of what the actual figure is, but given all these factors, there's no way this was a cheap album to record.

And that is a fact. Idk about the bus incident but it's not like no other artist did some stupid shit. In fact many rock stars used to piss in broom buckets just to show how badass they are - none of those things are mentioned. And that's why I disagree with anyone who says MJ crossed a line. Eminem flipped at a member of the audience when he was booed while recieving an award. None of that stuff gets mentioned in the news. But everyone gangs up on MJ just because he called Motolla "the devil" because the latter didn't promote his album.

I don't really ever see the bus incident brought up unless an article is referring this specific issue though. It was an odd thing to do but I see other MJ controversies brought up more often in articles. And I assure you, I've seen Bieber's incident with pissing in a bucket brought up more times than the bus incident with MJ

 

[somewhereinthedark]

Then again, I wasn't the one who said they spent 30,000,000 million in promotion. You're directing your reply at the wrong person

Lol! I know you're not the one who said it. You are just repeating what Mottola fed the media.

 

[somewhereinthedark]

I think that 30 million dollar figure was for HIStory.

You have to understand that everything related to MJ is blown way out of proportion just to make him look bad. In comparison to MJ's earlier albums, Invincible got almost no promotion! And that is a fact. Idk about the bus incident but it's not like no other artist did some stupid shit. In fact many rock stars used to piss in broom buckets just to show how badass they are - none of those things are mentioned. And that's why I disagree with anyone who says MJ crossed a line. Eminem flipped at a member of the audience when he was booed while recieving an award. None of that stuff gets mentioned in the news. But everyone gangs up on MJ just because he called Motolla "the devil" because the latter didn't promote his album.

I agree with every word you posted.

 

[HIStoric]

You are just repeating what Mottola fed the media.

No, not really. You said there was virtually no promotion for Invincible. All I did was merely prove there actually was promotion for Invincible.

Now how much promotion they did for Invincible is another topic all together, one I haven't really commented on so... no I haven't actually repeated what Mottola fed the media. Pretty much everything I've said has been from sources other than Mottola actually.

 

[somewhereinthedark]

A

Nah I've seen it everywhere for Invincible's production budget, though HIStory probably had something that high for it's promotion budget alone. Invincible's promotion budget though? No way.



I can certainly imagine it being very expensive. It took Michael four long years to record that album, from first take to final take. Over the years I've read about how he moved every so often and always had the best studios booked out, ready for him to use even if he didn't use them (seems like there were eleven studios this album was recorded in). Studio time can get pretty expensive, especially over a long period of time (of course I don't expect him to have all those studios booked out for 4 years in a row, but I can imagine Michael booking many of them at one time). Michael also always insisted working with the best of the best and there are a crazy number of writers and producers who worked on this album. 11 extra producers and according to the album credits a good.... 28 extra writers?? Then you have the samples of Biggie Smalls and Rod Serling, no idea how much these samples costed but it'd still add up.

There might be some other things I'm too tired to think of, but as far as I'm aware, Michael never ever countered the claim when he was protesting against Sony as well. Given all these factors, there's no way this was a cheap album to record.

Yes, if I'm not mistaken, Michael said these claims were not true. The bottom line is that 60 million( 30 million for supposed "promotion" and 30 million for supposed "production" of the album) was not spent. Again, this is what Mottola was feeding to the media and public to make Michael seem as if was out of control or "whining". SOME fell for Mottola's spin, and other people used just plain old common sense to see that Mottola was "devilish" or lying and full of caca.($#^+).

 

[HIStoric]

Yes, if I'm not mistaken, Michael said these claims were not true. The bottom line is that 60 million( 30 million for suppose "promotion" and 30 million for supposed "production" of the album was not spent. Again, this is what Mottola was feeding to the media and public to make Michael seem as if was out of control orm "whining". SOME fell for that and other people used just plain old common sense to see that Mottola was "devilish"(lying) and full of caca.($#^+).

I dunno, I honestly can't say I care enough about this issue to listen to MJ or Mottola's speeches. I've never seen a fan mention MJ disputing the figure before but if he has, then he has. I also highly doubt that they spent $30,000,000 on promotion, that we can definitely agree on.

As for the production cost of the album? Like I said before, I don't know how much Invincible cost exactly but I can be fairly certain it was reasonably expensive and it's not hard to see given the factors I mentioned in my previous post. Considering I've barely read what Mottola has had to say and everything else I've said is from more reliable sources (aka people who've spent time with him + readily available information, in regards to studio locations and credits), you can't really accuse me of 'repeating what Mottola fed to the media'.

 

[somewhereinthedark]

No, not really. You said there was virtually no promotion for Invincible. All I did was merely prove there actually was promotion for Invincible.

Now how much promotion they did for Invincible is another topic all together, one I haven't really commented on so... no I haven't actually repeated what Mottola fed the media. Pretty much everything I've said has been from sources other than Mottola actually.

Again, there was virtually no promotion for Invincible. I didn't see any in the stores where I live- no posters, ads or anything . We actually had to search for the album because there was no promo for it and that was a first for a MJ album. I don't think there were any Sony ads during the 30th Anniversary concert. Maybe I missed something. Compare that so-called "promotion" to Xscape, a posthumous album, and will see where I am coming from. Invincible did not have 30 million dollars worth of promotion. Mottola was being "devilish" and spinning the truth.

 

[somewhereinthedark]

HIStoric, thank you for agreeing on ONE thing- $30,000,000 was NOT spent on promotion. Now...

 

[nickzark]

dont believe that they spent 30.000.000. if it is true they surely can not spent money in proper way.My little child would make with so much money better promotion that this.

 

[Bringing Brighter Days]

"We" spent?.The 30 million was what Mottola/Sony leaked to the media. I don't believe 30 million was spent to record Invincible. I certainly don't believe 30 million was spent to promote it. Now, if Mottola had said they spent 30 million to promote HIStory, I would have believed it. There was no promotion where I live. Most people didn't know that he was releasing an album because there was no promotion from Sony. R&B started playing "Butterflies" and that one song spurred sales because not only did R&B radio LOVE that song, the R& B. Audience loved it. Radio played "Butterflies", "Break of Dawn", YRMR, and "Heaven Can Wait" in heavy rotation. I know people who had not bought a MJ album in years who went out and bought Invincible.
The bottom line is that Michael promoted Invincible, Sony did basically nothing but try to sabotage the album WITH the help of the media. AND there was no way that 30 million was spent to promote it . That's the BS that Mottola spread in order to justify the "devilish" deeds that he was doing.

Wait, there was no promotion for Invincible.? Ill respond back later because Rodney Jerkins started producing Michael's album as early as late spring 1999 and was originally scheduled for release in 2000. Ill mention all the promotion I saw, heard, and read about

 

[Snow White luvs Peter Pan]

Invincible was almost ignored here in Mexico, YRMW was the only single played on the radio stations, its short film was rarely broadcast on MTV Mexico, once the 30th Anniversary was aired, that was it, I also spent 8 years trying to buy the album on Mexican record stores but I could finally get it in 2009 because I asked one of my teachers to buy it for me in USA. It's a mockery the amount Mottola claimed to spend on the so called Invincible promotion compared what was done for the HIStory album.

 

[AtlasAir]

I guess it is easier to blame Motolla for all the problems.

 

[Snow White luvs Peter Pan]

Mottola wasn't 100% truthful and Michael even when many people was treating him as the worst kind of criminal in 1993, he hadn't attacked anybody in a public way before, it was quite uncharacteristic of him. Even if we choose to take sides, we can only speculate because we won't know the whole truth.

 

[MAQ]

Mottola wasn't 100% truthful and Michael even when many people was treating him as the worst kind of criminal in 1993, he hadn't attacked anybody in a public way before, it was quite uncharacteristic of him. Even if we choose to take sides, we can only speculate because we won't know the whole truth.

Has anyone else noted that when MJ defends himself aggressively, that controversy receives less exposure.

 

[Themidwestcowboy]

Mottola wasn't 100% truthful and Michael even when many people was treating him as the worst kind of criminal in 1993, he hadn't attacked anybody in a public way before, it was quite uncharacteristic of him. Even if we choose to take sides, we can only speculate because we won't know the whole truth.[/b]

That's what i'm talking about. Something must have warranted that kind of reaction from him. And oh yeah, who said 30 mil was spend on promotion for this album? lol. I see indie artists promote their album better than Invincible.

Also it just doesn't add up. Why would MJ want his own album to flop? It's insane, and even more insane why would a corporation, a label want their artist, (not to mention their most profitable artist), project to fail? That would be a devastating loss. So someone was not being quite honest. And the fact that tommy Mottola was fired not too long after Invincible raises even more questions.

 

[Bringing Brighter Days]

Setting aside whether or not Invincible received standard promotion, why would an artist of Michael's stature have to rely on elevated promotion when the world knows who he is and what he accomplished in the past. If there is one person who shouldn't need that level of promotion its Michael Jackson

Thriller was released with small scale promotion and hit the stratosphere because the success of the album was not based on promotion but his talent

 

[Dianne]

To this very day I still meet people who have no idea that Invincible even exists, and they were old enough back in the day. Promotion was really low for someone like him.
I was a casual fan on and off interested in him for years and the only reason I knew about that album back then was bc I knew another MJ fan who had it.

 

[Themidwestcowboy]

Setting aside whether or not Invincible received standard promotion, why would an artist of Michael's stature have to rely on elevated promotion when the world knows who he is and what he accomplished in the past. If there is one person who shouldn't need that level of promotion its Michael Jackson

Thriller was released with small scale promotion and hit the stratosphere because the success of the album was not based on promotion but his talent

Well yeah in an ideal world but things don't work like that in the real world.

 

[MAQ]

Setting aside whether or not Invincible received standard promotion, why would an artist of Michael's stature have to rely on elevated promotion when the world knows who he is and what he accomplished in the past. If there is one person who shouldn't need that level of promotion its Michael Jackson

Thriller was released with small scale promotion and hit the stratosphere because the success of the album was not based on promotion but his talent

Um I'm sorry, but am I missing something here? Invincible turned out to be a big hit worldwide and had an excellent initial run. It sold more than 9 million records (a lotta people say 13 million). The label promotion + world tour would've helped it to sell at least another 5 - 6 million records. And that's why it's labelled as a failure by stupid critics - because it failed to sell those additional copies. But even without them, it sold a lot more than Prince's or Madonna's or any other "80's artist's" 2000's albums.

 

[Bringing Brighter Days]

Um I'm sorry, but am I missing something here? Invincible turned out to be a big hit worldwide and had an excellent initial run. It sold more than 9 million records (a lotta people say 13 million). The label promotion + world tour would've helped it to sell at least another 5 - 6 million records. And that's why it's labelled as a failure by stupid critics - because it failed to sell those additional copies. But even without them, it sold a lot more than Prince's or Madonna's or any other "80's artist's" 2000's albums.

I dont see where I said anything negative. I said Michael Jackson's name alone technically should be all the promotion that's needed, especially since he has been performing for over 40 years

 

[Snow White luvs Peter Pan]

"Invincible's promotion" was nowhere near Thriller's, what the hell are you talking about? It was a bold move of Walter Yetnikoff (sp?) telling mtv he'd pull out all the CBS artists if they didn't play Michael's Billie Jean. Being the first African American artist played on that channel was a huge promotion tool, so was doing Michael's first Moonwalk on national tv and coming up with one of the most ground braking short films ever made.