Why do so many people dismiss his work from the 90's?

[HIStory]

I've read critics deride his later work because he wasn't singing fluffy love songs like he did on OTW and Thriller and had supposedly turned 'paranoid and angry'. To me Michael's later work from Bad onwards trumps most of the material from OTW and Thriller. MJ had things to say and that to me is more appealing.

I like both sides of him. I have moods when I prefer the fun songs and I have moods when I prefer the more serious ones. I am glad he is so versatile. I have an album by him for all of my moods.

 

[Bringing Brighter Days]

Why does OTW or Thriller have to be viewed as fluff, I never heard anyone say Destiny or Triumph was fluff


This can work both ways

There plenty of his generation of fans from the 90s on who never considered his earlier work unti it was apparent he was not going to release anymore studio albums

 

[analogue]

Why does OTW or Thriller have to be viewed as fluff, I never heard anyone say Destiny or Triumph was fluff


This can work both ways

There plenty of his generation of fans from the 90s on who never considered his earlier work unti it was apparent he was not going to release anymore studio albums

No one is calling those albums fluff. But they do have more carefree songs than his later albums like Rock With You, Get On The Floor, Burn This Disco Out, Off The Wall, Baby Be Mine and P.Y.T.

Nothing wrong with carefree songs btw

 

[Bringing Brighter Days]

No one is calling those albums fluff. But they do have more carefree songs than his later albums like Rock With You, Get On The Floor, Burn This Disco Out, Off The Wall, Baby Be Mine and P.Y.T.

Nothing wrong with carefree songs btw

I wouldn't say carefree as much as they free

 

[Snow White luvs Peter Pan]

It depends where you live, I think. The Mexican media mocked him, trashed him but they didn't ignore his 90s work. They premiered his shorts from both Dangerous and HIStory, even broadcasted behind the making off Ghosts when they premiere it, the HIStory tour Munich concert. When they were about broadcast something new, they put Moonwalker first. So it I guess many people watched the video premiers or special programs because Michael had a constant presence on TV in the 90s. What the media ignored was Invincible, they just premiered the 30th Annoversary concert and that was it. I watched You Rock My World on TRL the first time, I think but it was just broadcasted on MTV. At least in the 90s Mexico didn't ignore his work, that disgusting mockumentary and the second allegations is what ruined him here.

His first 3 adult solo albums were fun, carefree and he didn't say much, it was in the 90s when he got more political, conscious and had something more meaningful to express. I agree with analogue, there's nothing wrong with being carefree but it terms of lyrical content and lyrical quality, Dangeous, HIStory and BOTDF are masterpieces. "Music critics" didn't listened carefully to the albums because I guess reviewing his personal life was more lucrative than reviewing the actual music.

 

[Bringing Brighter Days]

It depends where you live, I think. The Mexican media mocked him, trashed him but they didn't ignore his 90s work. They premiered his shorts from both Dangerous and HIStory, even broadcasted behind the making off Ghosts when they premiere it, the HIStory tour Munich concert. When they were about broadcast something new, they put Moonwalker first. So it I guess many people watched the video premiers or special programs because Michael had a constant presence on TV in the 90s. What the media ignored was Invincible, they just premiered the 30th Annoversary concert and that was it. I watched You Rock My World on TRL the first time, I think but it was just broadcasted on MTV. At least in the 90s Mexico didn't ignore his work, that disgusting mockumentary and the second allegations is what ruined him here.

His first 3 adult solo album were fun, carefree and he didn't say much, it was in the 90s when he got more political, conscious and had something more meaningful to express. I agree with analogue, there's nothing wrong with being carefree but it terms of lyrical content and lyrical quality, Dangeous, HIStory and BOTDF are masterpieces. "Music critics" didn't listened carefully to the albums because I guess reviewing his personal life was more lucrative than reviewing the actual music.

He said just as much then as he did years later

 

[Gatesy2006]

He said just as much then as he did years later

He didn't though did he? Talking about social injustices like in TDCAU or about drug abuse in Morphine all came later in the early to mid '90s. The darkest he really got in the '80s was Billie Jean

 

[barbee0715]

I wouldn't say carefree as much as they free

Im with you on this one. I don't think OTW, Bad or Thriller are any less masterpieces just bc the later albums are a little more dark and political.

Those social themes are in his work with Quincy too-people just didn't realize it bc the music is so melodic and you can automatically sing along with it.

Critics in the 90s reviewed his looks and 'eccentricities', not the music and the public followed suit. Personally, I missed the "sound" of the Quincy albums.

(And I definitely don't give Quincy full credit for that sound -it's on Michael's demos of that period. But I really missed it).

 

[SoCav]

Im with you on this one. I don't think OTW, Bad or Thriller are any less masterpieces just bc the later albums are a little more dark and political.

Those social themes are in his work with Quincy too-people just didn't realize it bc the music is so melodic and you can automatically sing along with it.

I agree with this and I think this is an interesting point. I do think MJ's work became more explicitly socially conscious and darker, but I think dismissing a lot of his earlier work as carefree is incorrect. Not that there is anything wrong with carefree tracks, but I think it is simply not accurate. Perhaps it also has to do with the fact that many people simply associate disco and funk with being carefree and upbeat?

-I mean, go back to 1978, That's What You Get For Being Polite. That song might sound mellow on the surface, but there's a lot of melancholy and yearning in that song. The same applies to Much Too Soon.
-In Things I Do For You, he addresses aspects of being used that you can find later, more explicitly, in a track like Money ("Always wanting something for nothing, especially what they don't deserve. Reaching in my pocket, I just got to stop it"). WBSS encompasses similar elements of being taken advantage of as well as paranoia, and of course has the uplifting anthemic ending (not unlike the message of a track like Keep The Faith).
-Can You Feel It and Another Part Of Me have a simlar harmonious message as a later track like Black or White.
-Beat It and Bad are both message songs.
-Billie Jean and Dirty Diana are thematically similar to Dangerous and Blood on the Dance Floor.
-Leave Me Alone, especially when taking the video into account, addresses the media circus around him, as he would revisit with tracks like Tabloid Junkie and Scream. Related to that, a song like The Price of Fame addresses the pressures Michael felt head on, as he would on several later tracks.
-Do You Know Where Your Children are is one of Michael's most overt very socially conscious track and was written in the mid 80s.

Another thing to remember is that some of the tracks we associate with the 90s in fact stem from earlier times. For instance, Earth Song was first demo'ed in 1988 and Little Susie was written in 1979.

Overall, I certainly do think that, as he grew older and his life changed, Michael explored new subjects in the 90s and also found new ways to express what he wanted to say. However, I think a lot of his earlier work addresses similar issues as he did later and that it is more the tone (angrier, darker, more direct) and style that changed rather than the underlying messages.

 

[Bringing Brighter Days]

He didn't though did he? Talking about social injustices like in TDCAU or about drug abuse in Morphine all came later in the early to mid '90s. The darkest he really got in the '80s was Billie Jean

The difference between his tenor from what he wrote during the early stage of his solo career vs what he wrote post Thriller is that initially. The message moved people to unite, Im talking about truly uniting then that same message evolved into a more personal introspection which is one of the reasons why his songs of the 90s on were overlooked


What greater impact of his message was displayed than with the song Beat It, where he called for youth, for gangs, to resolve conflict without confrontation, then to expound on it, he featured real life street gang members in the video, and they were willing to do it, and then danced in the video, blacks, whites, latinos, asian all were drawn to it, then a year later , Beat It was chosen as the song to promote the national campaign to defeat drug abuse

He became the national spokesman for an entire nation, the voice of an entire generation.....the message was working and on the precipice of creating real change


The message in of itself never changed, it was the way it was presented and the focus of it as his career evolved that did

 

[Hess]

In Denmark some of his most played songs on radio are from Dangerous and HIStory.

Heal The World - Black or White - Remember the Time - Will You Be There

Stranger in Moscow - They Don't Care About Us - You Are Not Alone - Earth Song - Scream


- I would say those are the songs I hear the most on the radio. - Of course Billie Jean too. - But I hear those listed above on the radio regular.

 

[barbee0715]

However, I think a lot of his earlier work addresses similar issues as he did later and that it is more the tone (angrier, darker, more direct) and style that changed rather than the underlying messages.

EXCELLENT POST and I hope everybody reads it. Love the way you compared the themes in his early work to his later work and you were spot on.

I was a teenager transitioning to a young adult in the 70s and this is when I became quite socially conscious. 0f civil rights, of women's rights, of gay rights, about poverty, etc. Disco music wasn't all disco duck. The 70s were quite dark.

 

[HIStory]

I agree with this and I think this is an interesting point. I do think MJ's work became more explicitly socially conscious and darker, but I think dismissing a lot of his earlier work as carefree is incorrect. Not that there is anything wrong with carefree tracks, but I think it is simply not accurate. Perhaps it also has to do with the fact that many people simply associate disco and funk with being carefree and upbeat?

-I mean, go back to 1978, That's What You Get For Being Polite. That song might sound mellow on the surface, but there's a lot of melancholy and yearning in that song. The same applies to Much Too Soon.
-In Things I Do For You, he addresses aspects of being used that you can find later, more explicitly, in a track like Money ("Always wanting something for nothing, especially what they don't deserve. Reaching in my pocket, I just got to stop it"). WBSS encompasses similar elements of being taken advantage of as well as paranoia, and of course has the uplifting anthemic ending (not unlike the message of a track like Keep The Faith).
-Can You Feel It and Another Part Of Me have a simlar harmonious message as a later track like Black or White.

I always felt Destiny was Michael's most personal album up until Dangerous.

 

[mj_frenzy]

Is it because it's considered ''cool'' to only like MJ from the 80's? He made his best and most creative work in the 90's. Who Is It, Will You Be There, Give Into Me, Stranger In Moscow, They Don't Care About Us and Is It Scary are masterpieces.

Take, also, into account that MJ (especially in the 90s) was mainly perceived by the (general) public as an entertainer (‘HIStory’ statues, most expensive music clip, theatrical shows, etc.). As a result, many of them never bothered to delve into his deeper & more creative aspect (lyrics, songwriting, etc.).

 

[mj_frenzy]

In Denmark some of his most played songs on radio are from Dangerous and HIStory.

Heal The World - Black or White - Remember the Time - Will You Be There

Stranger in Moscow - They Don't Care About Us - You Are Not Alone - Earth Song - Scream


- I would say those are the songs I hear the most on the radio. - Of course Billie Jean too. - But I hear those listed above on the radio regular.

I have a feeling that west-European-based radio stations are friendlier to his ‘90s songs.

 

[MAQ]

I hadn't heard of Billie Jean when I was a kid (I'm 18 right now) but I had seen and listened to Black or White, Remember the Time, and Dangerous. I'm from South East Asia. Dangerous was I think more successful internationally than Bad, it sold around 24 million copies internationally and 7 million in the States whereas Bad sold around 22 million copies internationally and 8 million domestically. HIStory sold proportionately much less in the US, only 3.5 million copies (7 million units), than in the rest of the world; around 16 to 17 million copies. BOTDF's first week sales in the US were a joke by MJ's standards although it did go platinum later.

The point is that his later albums were much more popular in the rest of the world than in US. Many people here have this image of MJ : http://espn.go.com/photo/2014/0129/espnw_g_mj7_cr_800x450.jpg with the long curly hair and the military get up.

 

[mj_frenzy]

I hadn't heard of Billie Jean when I was a kid (I'm 18 right now) but I had seen and listened to Black or White, Remember the Time, and Dangerous. I'm from South East Asia. Dangerous was I think more successful internationally than Bad, it sold around 24 million copies internationally and 7 million in the States whereas Bad sold around 22 million copies internationally and 8 million domestically. HIStory sold proportionately much less in the US, only 3.5 million copies (7 million units), than in the rest of the world; around 16 to 17 million copies. BOTDF's first week sales in the US were a joke by MJ's standards although it did go platinum later.

The point is that his later albums were much more popular in the rest of the world than in US. Many people here have this image of MJ : http://espn.go.com/photo/2014/0129/espnw_g_mj7_cr_800x450.jpg with the long curly hair and the military get up.

I think that USA (from 1993 onwards) treated him more like an outcast (as compared to the rest of the world).

 

[MAQ]

The difference between his tenor from what he wrote during the early stage of his solo career vs what he wrote post Thriller is that initially. The message moved people to unite, Im talking about truly uniting then that same message evolved into a more personal introspection which is one of the reasons why his songs of the 90s on were overlooked


What greater impact of his message was displayed than with the song Beat It, where he called for youth, for gangs, to resolve conflict without confrontation, then to expound on it, he featured real life street gang members in the video, and they were willing to do it, and then danced in the video, blacks, whites, latinos, asian all were drawn to it, then a year later , Beat It was chosen as the song to promote the national campaign to defeat drug abuse

He became the national spokesman for an entire nation, the voice of an entire generation.....the message was working and on the precipice of creating real change


The message in of itself never changed, it was the way it was presented and the focus of it as his career evolved that did

I kinda agree with you. Bad and Beat It both were iconic videos with a message hidden and yet clearly visible beneath the cool and macho layers of the songs. But so was Black or White which I was surprised to see when I started browsing the Internet (Before 7th grade, I didn't have any access to the Internet, only my dad did , it's fun growing up without it) is one of his most overlooked big hits. It topped more charts than Billie Jean! And yet, critics said that MJ was going down.

All in all, it's safe to say that the reason why they do it is because they try to act cool and show that big sales don't mean anything, which is rubbish. Big sales do say a lot. And the fact that MJ was able to sell as big or even bigger than artists which were more 'popular' and 'cool' in the 90s (Nirvana, Mariah Carey) or even in the early 2000s, when he was considered a has been of the mid 80s ticks the haters off pretty much. Prince for example sold less than half of MJ in the 2000s in USA, in fact MJ sold more than any other R&B act in the US in the 2000s.

 

[mj_frenzy]

It's so weird though to imagine how awful it was in US

MJ was perfectly aware of that.

That’s why, he tried several times to get closer to his USA fans by adopting a more intimate approach (Beacon Theatre, Virgin Megastore 'Invincible' Signing Event, etc.).

 

[vernagold]

I feel that, here in the UK at least, it was all because of how he was perceived. The general public considered him a laughing stock, a freak and a joke. It wasn't cool to be a fan of his, especially at the time of 'Britpop'. When Jarvis Cocker 'mooned' during Earth Song at the Brits, everyone I knew thought it was hilarious and that MJ had deserved it. It was quite a sad time.

 

[DuranDuran]

veterans

This pretty much happens with most popular acts, at least in the US. They generally have a period where they get radio airplay and get hit singles and/or albums and then it drops off when somebody younger or a new music style replaces them. With veteran acts, the general public doesn't really care about any new music they might release, only the old hits. There's a few exceptions that have had well selling albums later in their career, but it usually involves releasing collaboration records with young popular acts like Santana, Lionel Richie, & Tony Bennett have done or covers albums like Rod Stewart & Michael McDonald. In Lionel's case, it was both duets and remakes on a country style album called Tuskegee. This duets trend started with those Frank Sinatra albums in the 1990s. There's ageism as far as getting Top 40 radio airplay in the US though. Many veterans just do greatest hits concerts and might not play newer stuff because many of the audience does not respond to it. When critics discuss Stevie Wonder, they talk about his 1970s albums, not the ones from the 1960s Little Stevie era or the ones released after 1980. They tend to trash songs like Ebony & Ivory and I Just Called To Say I Love You. With any of the Beatles, the group records are talked about more than any of their solo material and The Beatles get more publicity in general.

 

[Moviefan2k4]

While I'll readily admit to his '80s work being my favorite era, I also like several songs Michael recorded during the '90s. "Will You Be There", "Who Is It", "Give In To Me", and "Keep the Faith" are all excellent songs from the "Dangerous" album, plus the phenomenal title track. As for the "HIStory" project, I liked "Scream" for a long time, but now it seems a little outdated, for lack of a better word. The main lyrics on "Tabloid Junkie" still annoy me, since I can't understand most of them (love the chorus, though). "D.S." is a great song about the first allegations, along with "They Don't Care About Us", "Childhood", and "Stranger in Moscow". As for "Blood on the Dance Floor", I generally despise remix albums, but the title track's incredible...along with "Is It Scary" and "Morphine".

 

[KOPV]

... Cuz it would make sense to keep on with the "fallen Pop Star" stories when he's making hits being appreciated for it.. so thy pretended it didn't happen...


That's what it comes down to.

 

[mjprince1976]

A variety of reasons, the allegations being one, marrying Lisa Marie, but to me it seems shallow.

Why because his music actually evolved more in the 1990s. The first three albums were masterpieces and perfect pieces of pop, dance, funk and even rock, but in the 90s he kept the commercial sound but dug into deeper material beyond dancing and chasing women, okay Man in The Mirror and Human Nature hint at deeper things, but most of Dangerous and History he is singing about many social topics and adding his views into his sound. People may have dismissed Michael in the 1990s, but I never did, we knew that when Dangerous came out Michael Jackson showed to us his enduring standards, quality and star power. I actually listen to Michael's later music more than his 80s stuff.

I just think anyone who would stop their Michael experience with Bad or even Thriller is denying themselves of something great. I mean even with Prince, he dropped off in the 1990s, he ahd some gems, but the 80s was his best time, Michael to me is not an 80s artist, he is and always will be a 70s, 80s, 90s and 00s artist (Well okay maybe his 00s were not so hot, but no one can deny the power of Dangerous, History and BODF).

Seriously, try and listen to songs like TDCAU, Tabloid Junkie, Will you be there, Who is it, Ghosts, heal the world and tell me you can dismiss it as Johnny come lately stuff from a fading star. I would dare anyone, everyone should know that is work from a man whose music and appeal is timeless. Those songs are genius to me. To me Michael Jackson in the 1990s is the reason why Michael Jackson is all time.

 

[Korlay]

Couldn't put it better in words!

Dangerous. Such a wonderful. Better than Thriller. No doubt about that. The lyrics, his vocals, the beat of the song, the album cover, his looks.. it was all perfect!
What a shame that the album didn't get the attention and praise it deserved.

From 1 side I'm happy that he didn't tour in the States during the Dangerous tour. But from the other side touring may have helped the album....

I'd have to disagree. It's your opinion and I respect that, but I wouldn't say the Dangerous album is better than Thriller. Dangerous is a classic album no doubt about that, but the "New Jack Swing" sound from Teddy Riley is quite heavy in most of the CATCHY songs he produced. You still have a ton of variety in the Dangerous album, but to me Thriller is quite flawless in production from start to finish. I'd have to say that a lot of his best work is material he worked on, wrote and recorded in the 90s, but I feel Dangerous could've been a little better production-wise..