Xscape General Discussion

[OnirMJ]

Xscape was bestselling album for Sony in 2014, 29 Mio. revenue

http://s14.postimg.org/km07a6gnl/ott.jpg

That is amazing. And some "fans" on another forum were saying that Xscape is a commercial flop because Sony lost money on this one considering how much they paid for producers and promotion. Promotion was decent (let's say few millions) and there is no way Timbaland took more than 3 MIL (and that is extremely exaggerated - 500,000 per song). That leaves great profit for Sony and Estate.

 

[Tygger]

Xscape was bestselling album for Sony in 2014, 29 Mio. revenue

Best selling year-to-date September 2014 and that was the most positive slice of information from these newly-released and rather enlightening Sony email leaks.

Begs the question that if Xscape generated twice the revenue of Pharrell's G.I.R.L., why was there not a third single from Xscape or further promotion?

 

[OnirMJ]

Best selling year-to-date September 2014 and that was the most positive slice of information from these newly-released and rather enlightening Sony email leaks.

Begs the question that if Xscape generated twice the revenue of Pharrell's G.I.R.L., why was there not a third single from Xscape or further promotion?

I don't think it was the best selling but it brought them the biggest revenue. Don't know why, maybe it was more expensive or probably because of some MJ-Sony connection. Or maybe those other albums had larger production and promotional costs - this seems plausible.

Beyoncé - Beyoncé
Columbia - 2.289.000 copies

Pharrell Williams - G I R L
Back Lot / Columbia - 1.879.000 copies

Michael Jackson - Xscape
MJJ / Epic - 1.523.000 copies

Barbra Streisand - Partners
Columbia - 1.412.000 copies

John Legend - Love In The Future
Columbia - 945.000 copies

 

[HIStory]

Beyonce's album was released in 2013, so a big bulk of its sales would be in 2013.

And maybe Xscape brought more revenue than G.I.R.L. because most fans bought the Deluxe (more expensive) version.

It's still great news, because it means it was worth for Sony, so we can expect future MJ releases.

 

[OnirMJ]

Beyonce's album was released in 2013, so a big bulk of its sales would be in 2013.

Yeah, I know but it still outsold MJ in 2014:

Beyoncé - Beyoncé
Columbia - 2.289.000 copies

Michael Jackson - Xscape
MJJ / Epic - 1.523.000 copies

These numbers are sales from January 11, 2014 till January 3, 2015.

http://www.mediatraffic.de/year-end-albums.htm

 

[HIStory]

Then, maybe it's just because of the higher price of Deluxe Xscape. Although that seems to be a big difference 29 m vs. 5 m. Xscape is said to have made almost six times as much as Beyonce. That big of a difference cannot be only because of Deluxe sales. I don't know. Maybe mediatraffic's tracking is not that reliable after all. I don't know if maybe there were campagins for Beyonce in certain countries where they would sell it for peanuts for a certain period (like Lady Gaga's album) or something. Or maybe most of Beyonce's sales were the cheaper digital sales and Xscape's sales were more physical copies. Just guessing from what that big difference could be made of. This is revenue not profit, so costs should not be at play here.

 

[OnirMJ]

Are we even sure that that photo is real? Maybe it's fanmade photoshopped photo. Or maybe some anti-Sony fan created it to demonstrate how Sony is profiting on dead MJ (false propaganda). I'm just guessing, because the difference between MJ and other artists is too big.

 

[HIStory]

Are we even sure that that photo is real? Maybe it's fanmade photoshopped photo. Or maybe some anti-Sony fan created it to demonstrate how Sony is profiting on dead MJ (false propaganda). I'm just guessing, because the difference between MJ and other artists is too big.

It's from this document: http://www.scribd.com/doc/253100457/Sony-Music-MRP-Phase-II-Review-2014#scribd



Here you can also see the footnote which says:

"Michael Jackson includes 10M in additional Revenues due to Sony Mobile deal, Pharrell Williams Includes Sales of Both Album 'Girl' and Single 'Happy."

Still good. 29M-10M=19M

It also says:

So good to see Xscape was a successful project for Sony. Hopefully this means more projects for the future. But yes, it's a bit difficult to understand why they gave up promotion after the first/second single then. Maybe they thought it already brought back the planned revenue and more, so no more promotion needed? But how could they know if not even more could have been made of the album with a little more promo?

 

[Tygger]

I don't think it was the best selling but it brought them the biggest revenue.

Thanks, my error. The question however remains. Some fans wondered why Xscape was seemingly abandoned and now it is more questionable knowing it generated twice as much revenue as Pharrell who sold more copies. Minus the mobile monies, it is on par with Pharrell which I assume no one would suggest G.I.R.L. was a failure.

Now that we know revenue wise Xscape was a success, why was the third promised single not released and why was promotion so meager for APWNN which ensured its failure as a single? That failure made it seem Xscape failed publicly when we now know for fact it surely did not.

Are we even sure that that photo is real? Maybe it's fanmade photoshopped photo. Or maybe some anti-Sony fan created it to demonstrate how Sony is profiting on dead MJ (false propaganda). I'm just guessing, because the difference between MJ and other artists is too big.

Many of Sony emails leaks were published this weekend. Again, this was one of the more positive ones.

 

[serendipity]

That failure made it seem Xscape failed publicly when we now know for fact it surely did not.
.

I don't think so..... even the media isn't claiming Xscape failed (and I'm sure a lot of them would love to)

 

[OnirMJ]

Many of Sony emails leaks were published this weekend. Again, this was one of the more positive ones.

What are the negative ones? Michael related?

 

[OnirMJ]

It's from this document: http://www.scribd.com/doc/253100457/Sony-Music-MRP-Phase-II-Review-2014#scribd



Here you can also see the footnote which says:

"Michael Jackson includes 10M in additional Revenues due to Sony Mobile deal, Pharrell Williams Includes Sales of Both Album 'Girl' and Single 'Happy."

Still good. 29M-10M=19M

It also says:

So good to see Xscape was a successful project for Sony. Hopefully this means more projects for the future. But yes, it's a bit difficult to understand why they gave up promotion after the first/second single then. Maybe they thought it already brought back the planned revenue and more, so no more promotion needed? But how could they know if not even more could have been made of the album with a little more promo?

Thank you very much for that. What is MRTD? Pharrell generated $31MRTD, John Legend $22MRTD, Chris Brown $11MRTD, Beyonce $47MRTD!

Why MJ don't have MRTD?

 

[Tygger]

I don't think so..... even the media isn't claiming Xscape failed (and I'm sure a lot of them would love to)

Depends on the audience. Many fans here saw the number of copies sold in the chart thread and assumed Xscape needed a boost in sale numbers to be successful and initiated fan campaigns here to increase sales.

If I am understanding this document in the link provided correctly, Sony projected Xscape would generate $22M when it generated $29M. Xscape successfully utilized their "One Sony" concept which meant Xscape, a product from Sony Music, could successfully cross-promote their Mobile, Electronic, and Network Entertainment divisions and vice versa.

This may explain why Xscape was not further promoted with a third single, Grammy nomination(s), etc. Xscape performed in the manner Sony preferred so there was no need to continue promoting the album.

While that may bode well to some for future products, I am unsure how that translates to the artists who will work on those future products.

What are the negative ones? Michael related?

They are posted on #MJFam twitter page for review.

Thank you very much for that. What is MRTD? Pharrell generated $31MRTD, John Legend $22MRTD, Chris Brown $11MRTD, Beyonce $47MRTD!

Why MJ don't have MRTD?

Again, if I am understanding the document in the link correctly, RTD is retail-to-date, M is million$.

 

[OnirMJ]

They are posted on #MJFam twitter page for review.

Don't know what that is. Can you give me a link?

 

[OnirMJ]

Again, if I am understanding the document in the link correctly, RTD is retail-to-date, M is million$.

But why MJ doesn't have RTD (retail-to-date?).

What is the difference between retail-to-date and revenue? Why Beyonce has $47M retail-to-date but only $5M in revenue?

 

[OnirMJ]

If I am understanding this document in the link provided correctly, Sony projected Xscape would generate $22M when it generated $29M.

Where did you see that $22M? You mean that chart below where it says: "Michael Jackson $22", because there is no M sign there, I think that may be something else.

 

[barbee0715]

Do you have to join twitter to read the emails??

 

[Tygger]

Don't know what that is. Can you give me a link?

Do you have to join twitter to read the emails??

You have to scroll down a bit to those tweets.
https://twitter.com/hashtag/mjfam?f=realtime&src=hash

But why MJ doesn't have RTD (retail-to-date?).

What is the difference between retail-to-date and revenue? Why Beyonce has $47M retail-to-date but only $5M in revenue?

My understanding is RTD is retail sales and sales is only one source of revenue. Maybe for Beyonce, there were not as many revenue sources for her album minus retail sales while Xscape generate revenue through One Sony portals. It is a large discrepancy between those artists revenue and RTD.

Where did you see that $22M? You mean that chart below where it says: "Michael Jackson $22", because there is no M sign there, I think that may be something else.

Yes, the figures are in million$.

 

[Hess]

I think most will agree Xscape was a succes!!

A posthoumos album selling nearly 2 million copies worldwide with very little promotion - and the artist not being around to perform, tour, make interviews etc.

In a dead music industry 2 million is amazing!

How far is Xscape from selling 2 million in worldwide total sales?

 

[barbee0715]

^^Thats actually outstanding for this day and age. It boggles my mind.
I feel so proud.

 

[barbee0715]

You have to scroll down a bit to those tweets.
https://twitter.com/hashtag/mjfam?f=realtime&src=hash

Tygger-I scrolled thru this but only found the emails talking about audience for Bad25 in theaters.
Did I not go far enough??

Speaking of Bad25 in theaters-bad decision!! I don't remember any crazy frenzy that was only for TII. Just that it was going to be here for 2 wks only. They should have done the same for the doc and run the Wembley show on a double bill. I would have been there every night.

 

[Tygger]

Barbee0715, plenty more emails. Without going to off-topic, I was uncomfortable with the comparison of a film about Michael's artistry and a film with Michael rehearsing for a tour he could not complete because he passed. (There are several emails about TII.) The email states the film about Michael's artistry would not be able to generate the sales the TII film did globally. If Michael's legacy is important, then a film about his artistry only supports his musical legacy and deserves proper promotion to succeed.

There was a thread where a Sony representative asked through a member here what caused the Bad25 failure. I stated, among other items, that it was not packaged properly. Lee's documentary should have been packaged with the Bad25 album. Bad25 did appear in theaters (I believe it did in some parts of Europe and for Oscar contention in the U.S.) but, the promotion was particularly poor in the U.S. and many fans did not know it had a theatrical release where TII had major promotion.

It begs the question of how OTW will be promoted and packaged to consumers.

 

[Hess]

It is very positive news that Xscape did better than SONY expected... - That makes future contracts worth more for the estate - and SONY. - But it also gives SONY - and the estate - a reason to release more new albums. And maybe it even gives them reason to promote the next one even better.

On the down side - the succes of the LNFSG duet propably makes them wanna put more duets on a future release. - or at least one I guess.

Edit. - I love the LNFSG duet - production wise I think it's even better than the McClain solo version. But I fear more than anything a Justin Bieber duet in the future... - Though isn't Justin Bieber already nearly forgotten and teenage girls have gotten over him and moved on?

Should a duet happen I would like Madonna, Bruno Mars, Beyoncé, JL, Stevie Wonder or some other highly respected long lasting quality music name.

AND - if it's a love song please make the duet with a girl... - I always felt HMH should not have been AKON but a girl. :lol:

 

[Deleted member 9375]

It was such a shame that the copies of Xsxape given away with the One Vages show tickets weren't counted as album sales to insure it got to number one in the US. Gimmicky yes, but it would have been sweet to have an MJ record at number one again in America.

 

[HIStory]

Where did you see that $22M? You mean that chart below where it says: "Michael Jackson $22", because there is no M sign there, I think that may be something else.

Correct me if I'm wrong, Tygger, but I think he/she meant this:

Marked in blue is "original BP". I don't know what it means. Original Business Plan? If so it seems like Sony expected $22 Million revenue for Xscape and it was $29 Million instead. So it exceeded the expectations. (And yes, it's in Million - see the header of the chart. Of course, they are not talking about $22 here. It's Million.)


ETA: From the comment about Adele on the right I think it means "Original Budget Plan" - so it's the budget, it seems.

Odd, because that would mean a lot of these releases produced deficit.

Pharrell $14M Budget vs. $13M Revenue
Beyonce $8 M Budget vs. $5M Revenue
Chris Brown $11M Budget vs. $7M Revenue
John Legend $12M Budget vs. $10M Revenue

Although there is that MRTD number too.

On the other hand the title of the chart is Release Revenues In Millions... So who knows what it really means?

 

[OnirMJ]

Speaking of Bad25 in theaters-bad decision!! I don't remember any crazy frenzy that was only for TII. Just that it was going to be here for 2 wks only. They should have done the same for the doc and run the Wembley show on a double bill. I would have been there every night.

I think their decision about Bad 25 was good business decision. That film was nothing special, decent film for TV special - in my opinion. And as a businessman I would make the same decision. Spike could have made a lot better film. Also you have to think that even if it was great (which it wasn't) that film wouldn't bring them revenue as the general public are not that interested in unknown (to them) people (engineers, MJ's friends and musicians from the 80's) talking about MJ and Bad.

As for Wembley, that would be completely different, that would bring them big revenue and that would be a smash it (like HIStory 3D will). But you can't play VHS in a movie theatre. The picture sucks even if you watch it on regular TV! Imagine that on the big screen. You would see just pixels.

 

[OnirMJ]

Correct me if I'm wrong, Tygger, but I think he/she meant this:

Yes, that's what I (he) meant.

 

[OnirMJ]

There was a thread where a Sony representative asked through a member here what caused the Bad25 failure. I stated, among other items, that it was not packaged properly. Lee's documentary should have been packaged with the Bad25 album. Bad25 did appear in theaters (I believe it did in some parts of Europe and for Oscar contention in the U.S.) but, the promotion was particularly poor in the U.S. and many fans did not know it had a theatrical release where TII had major promotion.

Yes, packaging was one of the reasons. But the main reason was its content. My biggest problem with that release was very poor quality DVD/VHS. If you ignore that - you have disc 1 which 35 million people already have, disc 2 with awful, completely unnecessary, almost disrespectful (Pitbull!) remixes and demos. That release (and now Xscape) proved that the general public aren't interested in half finished songs. There are 2 wonderful songs there (Price Of Fame & I'm So Blue) that should have been finished properly and released as singles as proper songs with demos as B sides. That way radios would have something to play and promote. There is no radio station in the world that would play 25 years old unfinished song or demo that didn't make the final cut on an album. And that leaves you with disc 3 - live CD which was great for general public and not too picky fans (because it wasn't the full show - I didn't mind that that much). So basically only thing that could have been promoted (played on the radio) were live songs and those awful remixes - they went with remixes and failed hard. Maybe they should have sent Human Nature and Another Part Of Me to radio stations instead (or any other song).

 

[OnirMJ]

I'm glad that Xscape success proved what I was saying from day 1 - both finished songs and original versions/demos are essential for quality and successful release. And that is the way to go.

 

[Bubs]

It was such a shame that the copies of Xsxape given away with the One Vages show tickets weren't counted as album sales to insure it got to number one in the US. Gimmicky yes, but it would have been sweet to have an MJ record at number one again in America.

Yes, it would have been great, but unfortunately they didn't have crystal ball to see that No 1 spot was so tight, although I'm quite sure there would have been outcry in media if those albums were included.

Then again, because the No 1 spot was tight, I wonder if all the boycotters(Sony, estate etc) or people who illegally downloaded it, had bought the album, maybe Xscape would have been No 1 even without any gimmicks.

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AS for poster who keeps bringing in nonsense about Xscape not being nominated for Grammy.
I have posted this info already that record labels don't nominate albums or songs for Grammy's, only submit them for screening.

First of all, Xscape is not eligible because 51% must be newly recorded material and Xscape isn't recorded within 5 years (as per Grammy rules).
http://a2im.org/downloads/55_Grammy_Guidlines.pdf

Secondly,
Grammy process
Submitting Eligible Recordings

Members of the Recording Academy and record companies submit recordings and music videos that have been released during the eligibility year. The Recording Academy receives over 20,000 entries annually. The eligibility year for the 2014 awards is October 1, 2013 through September 30, 2014.

Screening Process

Over 150 experts in a variety of music fields review entered recordings to make sure they meet the eligibility requirements and that they are placed in the proper categories for award consideration. This is the point at which it is determined whether a recording is rock or jazz, pop or Latin, country or dance, etc. The placement of a recording in a category is not intended to make any judgment about the recording other than proper eligibility and category placement.

General Nominations

First-round ballots are sent to voting members of the association with lists of all of the eligible recordings in various fields. Members are instructed to vote only in their fields of expertise and they may vote in up to 20 genre fields. Currently there are 83 categories. The fields include Pop, Rock, Latin, Country, Jazz, etc. All voting members may select nominees in each of the 4 general categories - Record of the Year, Album of the Year, Song of the Year, and Best New Artist. Some categories are reserved for special nominating committees. The ballots are then tabulated by the accounting firm Deloitte.

To become a voting member of the association an individual may apply who is a music industry professional with creative or technical credits on six commercially released tracks (or their equivalent) in physically available music (e.g. vinyl and CDs) or twelve tracks of music sold online. At least one of the qualifying tracks must have been released within five years of applying to be a voting member. The music must be currently available for purchase through recognized music retailers. The credits may include vocalists, conductors, songwriters, composers, engineers, producers, instrumentalists, arrangers, art directors, album notes writers, narrators and music video artists and technicians. Anyone nominated for a Grammy Award within the previous five years is automatically eligible to be a voting member.

Special Nominating Committees

Some craft and specialized categories are reserved from the general nominations voting. These nominees are selected by national nominating committees selected from among active members of the association in all of the Recording Academy's chapter cities.

Final Voting

Final-round ballots are sent to voting members of the association with the final nominees in all categories. This includes the nominees that are determined by special nominating committees. Members are allowed to vote for the selections to win awards in up to 20 genre categories plus the 4 general categories.

Award Announcements

Winners of the awards are not known until envelopes containing the names of winners are opened at the presentation ceremonies. The sealed envelopes are delivered by Deloitte. Approximately 70 Grammy Awards are presented in the afternoon before the main Grammy Awards show. The remaining awards are presented in the live telecast.

More info here:
https://www.grammypro.com/awards

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