Murray won't be asked to pay restitution

[elusive moonwalker]

Well said brown. i dont know about fans sueing murray for distress. that family have done just the same

 

[ivy]

The emails were addressed to someone named "Tim." Where they went after that, or where they SAID they went after that, we are not privy to.

he was the tour manager. My point was that none of these people are doctors or necessarily knowledgeable about medical stuff. I mean I'm not a doctor and I didn't know majority of the things that I know now before the trial so if someone said CPR machine to me it wouldn't raise any red flags because I didn't know what it was. Do you get what I mean? We say that it should have raised red flag based on what we know now , but assume we knew nothing would it cause red flag then?

I think it is HIGHLY abnormal to request something called a "C.P.R. machine" for an entertainer about to embark on concerts. A defribillator, though, backstage, as are also provided in many airports or public places, is not uncommon. So, I'd think if someone didn't understand what was being requested, they'd at least ASK? We never really figured out what a "C.P.R machine" IS! Certainly not a cardiac bypass machine, as is used in open heart surgery? Given that Michael was embarking on a rigorous fifty concert tour, I do find it abnormal that no one even ASKED? "C.P.R. machine" is not really a medical term. Is it? So what was he actually asking FOR?

That would be a "defribrillator." (sp?) Not uncommon. But the terminology was SO strange, that seems NOT to have been what was asked for. Or, Murray didn't know WHAT the hell he was asking for?

Actually I looked to it and CPR machine is a device used to do chest compressions automatically. The main benefit is that if you have limited personnel - such as only Murray- the doctor can focus on other stuff - such as giving medicine- rather than being stuck with doing chest compressions. It also does more consistent compressions than humans. Then you use a defibrillator to start the heart.

However both of them are for cardiac arrest and we asked Dr. Shafer twice and he said that anesthesia causes respiratory arrest and not cardiac arrest. So in my opinion I don't think even if the people had medical knowledge and then heard Murray asked for CPR machine they couldn't conclude that it had something to do with Propofol or anesthesia. I think the most they could conclude that Murray feared a heart attack or stroke and that's not really a red flag considering Michael was a 50 year old that would do vigorous performances and Murray was a cardiologist.

ps: Dr. Shafer and also other experts told us that michael needed oxygen so I don't think even if Murray had a CPR machine provided, it wouldn't made a difference as that wasn't the problem.

 

[PaceMioDolceCuore]

But that's the weird thing. Every public venue that features a certain amount of people- automatically comes with a boatload of requirements- from the fire department to public health. Down to medical personal that has to be available when x amount of people is in the house. Ask any regular theatre or opera house.
The O2 by itself will have enough requirements- it's a matter of also keeping the public safe. If I were 'Tim' or Kathy Jorrie I would have naturally assumed that Murray needs to talk to the locals in London about that.

I don't think it's unreasonable to worry about a 50 year old etc- but the request for a "CPR machine" is a weird one. I also would have asked myself what exactly it is that the Cardiologist is worried about- the rehearsals, or the shows only?

And it would have gotten even weirder if anyone had looked up 'CPR machine'- because being a layperson I would assume that a cardiologist is the one to be ordering and supplying the equipment.

On a side note- knowing what we know now about Murray's CPR execution- creepy as all hell. If something would have happened to Michael with x amount of people around him- you don't need that thing. That right there implies that Murray wanted to use that in the 'privacy' of noone being around. Beyond upsetting. Knowing about this maschine is so much consciousness of danger and wrong doing on behalf of Murray- it hurts.

These emails and requests by Murray are going to be the ticket out of that lawsuit for AEG.

 

[ivy]

there's a video of Kathy Jorrie testimony on this link : http://insession.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/28/why-did-dr-murray-need-a-cpr-machine-for-mj/

she says he said it's for the venue.

As autumn said every venue in USA would have a defibrillator but not an automatic CPR machine because I assume there will be people knowing CPR? We require our coaching staff to take CPR class for example.

These emails and requests by Murray are going to be the ticket out of that lawsuit for AEG.

how so? Can you clarify?

 

[PaceMioDolceCuore]

there's a video of Kathy Jorrie testimony on this link : http://insession.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/28/why-did-dr-murray-need-a-cpr-machine-for-mj/

she says he said it's for the venue.

As autumn said every venue in USA would have a defibrillator but a CPR machine because I assume there will be people knowing CPR? We require our coaching staff to take CPR class.



how so? Can you clarify?

I think Autumn pointed that, too. I don't think it's going to be very difficult for AEG's counsel to portray themselves as having taken due diligence in caring for Michael. After all, they can demonstrate that they were willing to take care of their artist by even agreeing to this personal physician idea.

I think it will boil down to the question of who the employer was. If all that came out of Michael's pocket, if the contract was signed by Murray only- I think it is going to be very, very difficult to prove AEG at fault for a physician that Michael requested and apparently would have also paid from his share of revenue.

I kind of suspect that the argument will be that Michael was the one requesting a particular physician and would have paid him, too from his share.
On the other hand it's AEG that's being sued here, not Murray. But how do you get past the elephant in the room- that the person whom AEG was communicating with has been convicted of homicide? AEG just needs to find a way of saying that. Since Murray isn't the one on trial I do think that the emails and correspondence will help AEG ultimately to prove that they are not at fault. One twisted strange mess.

If I were AEG- I would sue Murray. Clearly not because any judgement would be benefical financially- but to get rid of that stench, metaphorically speaking. Or maybe AEG just hopes people will forget about all that.

I'm just scratching my head how this is going to work. I can't see it but I might be wrong at the end of the day. Who knows. Like Mesereau said- there are no guarantees.

Also, these cases seem extremely unpredictable. I'm curious though if this will bring information to daylight that has been swept under the rug since 2009.

 

[Vici]

"The request for payments from Conrad Murray was withdrawn Wednesday during a brief court hearing, just days before a judge was scheduled to consider how much the former cardiologist should pay to members of Jackson's family or his estate.

Deputy District Attorney David Walgren told the judge handling the case that he was withdrawing the restitution request after speaking with Jackson's mother, Katherine, and attorney for his father, Joseph. Walgren also consulted with an attorney for the singer's estate and a court-appointed attorney representing the interests of Jackson's three children, a transcript of the proceedings shows.

Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor ruled that the family was waiving its right to restitution permanently, although two separate cases pending in a Los Angeles civil court seek damages for the King of Pop's June 2009 death. Katherine Jackson is suing concert giant AEG Live, which was promoting Jackson's planned series of comeback concerts, claiming they failed to properly supervise Murray.

Joseph Jackson is suing AEG Live, alleging negligence by the entertainment promoter in his son's death, and he is suing Murray for wrongful death in the case.

Murray's attorney, J. Michael Flanagan, said he was pleased to have the restitution issue resolved. Flanagan said during Wednesday's hearing that he intends to seek bail for Murray while he appeals his conviction, according to the transcript, but he was told to put the request in writing."

http://www.bet.com/news/national/2012/01/19/jackson-doc-won-t-be-asked-to-pay-restitution.html

 

[Autumn II]

I do think that Murray has made a DEAL with the Jacksons, through their attorneys. I can think of no other explanation for them dropping restitution, which I'm sure Pastor was more than ready to do, to the maximum.

I remember at the time, I did an extensive Google search, and never found anything for the term "C.P.R. machine." That remains . . . weird. And certainly there would have been a lot of people in and around TII, who knew C.P.R. Even a lot of baby-sitters know that!

I do think a lot of it boils down to "who was the employer." AEG was going to pay, and Michael was going to pay them back. That remains a muddy area.

Especially, the email strings between Murray and AEG will be important, and probably will clarify, to some extent, what the agreement between AEG and Murray actually was. Because if Michael was the EMPLOYER, then why ask AEG for "equipment?" He was clearly responsible to them in some sense, and the emails might clarify how extensive that understanding was?

Wondering, of course, exactly what the deal WAS, that Murray made with the Jacksons. As I said, I can think of no other plausible reason to drop restitution. Certainly not to avoid another "trial." That wouldn't have been a "trial," but a ruling from the judge, with the usual appeals from Murray (does he even HAVE a lawyer, now?) I'm sure, in time, whatever deal there was. . . will be obvious, though.

 

[Bonnie Blue]

Re pace's post - I don't think the aeg case necessarily has to hinge on whether there was a signed contract and who the employer of murray was. Even though the contract was still unsigned, i think it can clearly be argued that there was some kind of contract (verbal?) existing as murray had been working for 2 months for mj and had already sent out his letters to his old patients saying he was moving on. There was an expectation from murray, mj and aeg (with the legal dept negotiations) that there was to be a contract.

However you can only get corporate liability from aeg for the actions of murray if they were following orders/instructions from aeg and murray clearly wasn't. He just had to get mj to rehearsals in a good condition - how that translates into using propofol wd be impossible to argue by the jackson lawyers. In the uk, we would call it an employee going off 'on a frolic of his own'. There's just no proof of any knowledge (that we know of) ofthe use of propofol on mj by any aeg executive - or any reasonable expectation that aeg should have guessed it might be used. It was a chemical experiment as dr shaffer said, mj was the only person in history to have it used in this way so there is no way it could have been foreseen or reasonably contemplated by aeg.

 

[ivy]

Also, these cases seem extremely unpredictable. I'm curious though if this will bring information to daylight that has been swept under the rug since 2009.

probably we will see a lot from AEG side. recently there have been rumors that Phillips has MJ on tape agreeing to 50 shows. If such things exist, AEG would be making them public during the lawsuit.

 

[Erikmjfan]

remember reading an article just after the verdict where someone representing Jackson saying they were looking forward working with Murray during the civil trial, guess we see the result now. The Jacksons are greatest scum ever walking the face of this earth!!

 

[Autumn II]

remember reading an article just after the verdict where someone representing Jackson saying they were looking forward working with Murray during the civil trial, guess we see the result now. The Jacksons are greatest scum ever walking the face of this earth!!

At least now we see the Jacksons are CONSISTENT?

I'm hoping that in the future, the children are able to put all this into perspective, and do what Michael did. Put MANY layers between them and this (expletive assumed) family.

 

[myosotis]

Having read all of the above...this just feels like 'snatching defeat out of the jaws of victory'.... Unbelievable to throw the possibility of restitution away.....and Murray might be let out on bail pending his appeal!........I had thought we were over the 'worst', but not so - by a very long way, it seems.

 

[Big Apple2]

I think it will be important that not only did Michael pick this doctor to go on tour with him. The doctor that he picked had a prior relationship with Michael AND HIS CHILDREN.

And for me, another huge thing is the fact that The Murderer Murray went around telling everybody and anybody that Michael was "in fine health." "No problems." "Excellent shape for a 50 year-old man." I don't see what AEG could have done, when Michael's doctor was telling those tall tales, even to the point of getting in Ortega's face.

I have always been of the belief that AEG wanted no part of Murray and if they had their way, a doctor would have been selected once they got to London.

I'm wondering if we will hear testimony to that effect once this case goes before the Judge.

 

[soulmum]

Surely the idea of retribution from Murray would have meant that he was so burdened by a debt to the Jackson family that it would be pointless for him to write a book or have paid interviews? This way they are leaving the door open for Murray to cash in on the very person whose life he took. The mind boggles.

 

[Autumn II]

Weaving in and around all of this, is the Lloyd's of London lawsuit. Not sure if findings in one will "pollinate" the other? That lawsuit contains some strangeness about Michael's physical (not done by Murray). There is a version where Michael had "the body of an astronaut." There is another version where "the doctor was turned away at the gate, and the physical never happened." That doctor (Slavit) appears to have left the country (anyone know if he's still gone?).

As usual, it's clear as mud.

I, for one, and NOT going to fault Michael for "selecting this doctor," regardless if he treated Michael's children, or not. If there's one thing that's, sadly, been consistent about Michael, it's trusting the WRONG people. I think he wanted, so badly, to believe in the GOODNESS of people, that sharks swam in, and snakes slithered right into his life. (I could name names, but I think that by now, we pretty much know who most of them were?)

The murkiness comes when AEG CLEARLY had some sort of relationship with Murray, i.e. emails between them. I think those will probably be the most revealing aspect of all of this?

 

[maral]

If there's one thing that's, sadly, been consistent about Michael, it's trusting the WRONG people. I think he wanted, so badly, to believe in the GOODNESS of people, that sharks swam in, and snakes slithered right into his life. (I could name names, but I think that by now, we pretty much know who most of them were?)

and this is why 93 case happend, it's why bashit happend, it's why 03 happend and it's why we are sitting here today with a person who REALY cared for and trusted people in a coffin but greedy people (no i don't mean the jacksons) alive and walking.

if Murray gets out on bail i'm going to break down for good. this is all wrong

 

[Autumn II]

and this is why 93 case happend, it's why bashit happend, it's why 03 happend and it's why we are sitting here today with a person who REALY cared for and trusted people in a coffin but greedy people (no i don't mean the jacksons) alive and walking.

if Murray gets out on bail i'm going to break down for good. this is all wrong

Oh, I hear you. Except, given everything, personally I add the Jacksons to that list, as well.

 

[maral]

Oh, I hear you. Except, given everything, personally I add the Jacksons to that list, as well.

well i agree to a point but they are his family and i can't believe they'd intentionally hurt him

 

[ivy]

I do think that Murray has made a DEAL with the Jacksons, through their attorneys. I can think of no other explanation for them dropping restitution, which I'm sure Pastor was more than ready to do, to the maximum.

Surely the idea of retribution from Murray would have meant that he was so burdened by a debt to the Jackson family that it would be pointless for him to write a book or have paid interviews? This way they are leaving the door open for Murray to cash in on the very person whose life he took. The mind boggles.

I don't think there needs to be a deal in place but I think they didn't want restitution due to AEG lawsuit.

We have all seen Pastor and realized that he wanted to give Murray more sentence then he could, was angry with his behavior and so on. I believe if Pastor was shown a calculation for the $100 M claim he would have given Murray the maximum - or at least a huge amount - in that regard as well. By that he would have figuratively put Murray behind bars his whole life as any money he would have made would go to paying that restitution. Obviously they wouldn't be able to collect full restitution but it would effectively make Murray's future life miserable.

I think Jacksons or lawyers or advisers thought this could give AEG an argument and argue that even if they lost the case the restitution asked from them should be lower as Murray has been criminally found guilty and asked to pay a major amount. Unfortunately it seems like rather than trying to make Murray's life miserable, Jacksons opted to go after the big fish who can pay big amounts of money.

Re pace's post - I don't think the aeg case necessarily has to hinge on whether there was a signed contract and who the employer of murray was. Even though the contract was still unsigned, i think it can clearly be argued that there was some kind of contract (verbal?) existing as murray had been working for 2 months for mj and had already sent out his letters to his old patients saying he was moving on. There was an expectation from murray, mj and aeg (with the legal dept negotiations) that there was to be a contract.

and that's the main part that's not clear.

However you can only get corporate liability from aeg for the actions of murray if they were following orders/instructions from aeg and murray clearly wasn't. He just had to get mj to rehearsals in a good condition - how that translates into using propofol wd be impossible to argue by the jackson lawyers. In the uk, we would call it an employee going off 'on a frolic of his own'. There's just no proof of any knowledge (that we know of) ofthe use of propofol on mj by any aeg executive - or any reasonable expectation that aeg should have guessed it might be used. It was a chemical experiment as dr shaffer said, mj was the only person in history to have it used in this way so there is no way it could have been foreseen or reasonably contemplated by aeg.

that was actually a claim in the lawsuit that by "get him to rehearsals" it was dictating Michael's medical care and was a conspiracy against him. Conspiracy part is thrown out as "getting anyone to work" is not illegal on the contrary it's a normal expectation.

As you said it's hard to equal "get him to rehearsals" to "give him propofol" and whether they knew or not is another question. However regardless - even if they know- I'm sure AEG's medical treatment "dictation" didn't include "don't watch him , leave him alone and go send emails and chat with your strippers and baby mamas". It's important to remember that Michael died because Murray didn't monitor him properly and didn't call for help quick enough.

Weaving in and around all of this, is the Lloyd's of London lawsuit. Not sure if findings in one will "pollinate" the other? That lawsuit contains some strangeness about Michael's physical (not done by Murray). There is a version where Michael had "the body of an astronaut." There is another version where "the doctor was turned away at the gate, and the physical never happened." That doctor (Slavit) appears to have left the country (anyone know if he's still gone?).

It will pollinate each other but the judge there will give them a stay in regards to the trial. In other words it won't start until Katherine's lawsuit is over. So it won't help Katherine but Katherine's lawsuit will help Lloyds.

and Slavit medical examination did happen as it's been filed in the lloyds case. I posted a part of it before.

And are you mixing Dr. Slavit with Applied pharmacy owner? Slavit is still in USA and working as far as I can tell. Also I don't see why he would run away or hide. He made a very basic vitals check, listen to his heart, look to his throat / nose / ear type of examination of Michael.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

I dont know why we should be surprised at the jacksons not caring about murray being able to make money off what he did. after all the jacksons have done exactly the same for nearly three years. they have done everything possible to cash in on the killing. theyve just thrown mj under a bus yet again for the good of the family. its that communist mentality were its only mj that
gets crapped on

 

[jaydom7]

yeah the family have outdone themselves this time. One would think Katherine would know that Murray is a no good snake that killed her son so she should want him to pay for eternity. Did she hear that drugged recording that Murray recorded of her son? Did that hurt her heart and make Murray want to pay? why would he record her son in such a vulnerable state? does she care? That recorded voice alone would make me kick Murray's @ss.. It shows what his plans were regarding MJ's state. He didn't care and Mike's family don't care either.. RIP Mike!!

 

[The Brown Gangsta]

yeah the family have outdone themselves this time. One would think Katherine would know that Murray is a no good snake that killed her son so she should want him to pay for eternity. Did she hear that drugged recording that Murray recorded of her son? Did that hurt her heart and make Murray want to pay? why would he record her son in such a vulnerable state? does she care? That recorded voice alone would make me kick Murray's @ss.. It shows what his plans were regarding MJ's state. He didn't care and Mike's family don't care either.. RIP Mike!!

He was talking about how he hurt because he didn't have a childhood, something his mother is responsible for by just sitting back and letting his childhood be robbed from him. I wouldn't be surprised if she rolled her eyes and said to herself "Ugh, there he goes complaining about his 'childhood' again. Get over it already" None of them seem to take the loss of his childhood seriously.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

None of them ever gave a dam about him. he was and is their meal ticket. their actions and words are not from ppl who loved him. But of course with that family its all about protecting the family image so they blame the freak when they should try looking in the mirror. its all about denial with themits no wonder he spent most of his adult life looking for a real family

 

[Rhilo]

^No, they certainly don't regret Michael losing his childhood, because that's what afforded the whole lot of them their luxury lifestyle in California.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Exactly. mj losing his chilhood and been gone at fifty is a price to pay for the good of the rest of the family. its a fair sacrifice to them.

 

[Autumn II]

I wonder if anyone bothered to explain to Michael's children, that this decision means Murray will be able to get RICH slandering their father?

FAIL!

 

[Rhilo]

^Doubt it. The way I see it, those kids have been brainwashed into believing that Murray is the fallout guy, perhaps even sympathizing with him. End of the day, Latoya's a major influence in their lives. So this family decision will not bother them for the time being.

I pray, when they are older they realize the true intentions of that family.

 

[marebear]

They failed Michael. I don't want to see them, hear from them, see any tears, nothing. I don't care what they think or what they want. What goes around comes around and their greed will cost them someday.

 

[Victory22]

Not only do they not care that Michael was robbed of his childhood but they also don’t care how deeply he was injured as a result and how that hurt to his soul affected his entire life. I am so done with the filthy, worthless lot of them especially Mother Dearest.

 

[8701girl]

I wonder if anyone bothered to explain to Michael's children, that this decision means Murray will be able to get RICH slandering their father? FAIL!

I can bet they havent or at least have told them some truth but not all of it