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Thread: How Many Unreleased Songs are Complete Enough for a Release?

   
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    Default How Many Unreleased Songs are Complete Enough for a Release?

    Administration Announcement: New thread started by Slave to the Rhythm

    Relevant posts about unreleased songs have been moved into this thread, from the Men in Black discussion.

    Please carry on.




    Quote Originally Posted by Slave to the Rhythm
    Because the Men In Black thread is bombed with a discussion about this I thought I start one especially for this question.

    Please state your opinion with sources or an argumentation at least.

    I will also create a list if you can give me a source that an unreleased song is complete/releasable.

    In my estimation, there are still many, nearly completed songs in the vaults.

    In particular, the ‘BAD’, ‘Dangerous’ & ‘HIStory’ recording sessions were extremely prolific in terms of nearly completed unreleased material.

    The nearly completed tracks from the ‘BAD’ sessions (that remain unreleased) are in excess of 50. The same goes for the ‘Dangerous’ & ‘HIStory’ sessions.

    MJ used to over-record during those sessions & to create large collections of nearly completed tracks before choosing the ones for his final tracklists.

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    Default Re: Men In Black: How finished is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by mj_frenzy View Post
    In my estimation, there are still many, nearly completed songs in the vaults.

    In particular, the ‘BAD’, ‘Dangerous’ & ‘HIStory’ recording sessions were extremely prolific in terms of nearly completed unreleased material.

    The nearly completed tracks from the ‘BAD’ sessions (that remain unreleased) are in excess of 50. The same goes for the ‘Dangerous’ & ‘HIStory’ sessions.

    MJ used to over-record during those sessions & to create large collections of nearly completed tracks before choosing the ones for his final tracklists.
    I spoke to brad about this its simply not true. More than half of those 50 would have just been getting a feel for a groove or just a chorus

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    Default Re: Men In Black: How finished is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dilan View Post
    I spoke to Brad about this its simply not true. More than half of those 50 would have just been getting a feel for a groove or just a chorus.
    I completely agree with you. I have spoken to Brad about this, as well and he is definitely in a position to know. This idea that fans have, about "hundreds of songs" is a myth, in my opinion......a story that has built up and been added to, over time and one which Michael never really bothered to refute.....in fact, he actively added to this myth, in depositions, etc. in order to create a picture of rich vaults of untapped material.....but it just does not exist. 50 songs, or 100 songs could mean anything at all.....just beats, lines, chords....a few sketchy bars. Brad actually played us quite a few demos that he called "song sketches" and he basically said that most of the material that remains, is just like that. A lot of times, there are no lyrics at all, merely humming and other sounds, with Michael kind of "jamming" with the musicians and getting a general feeling for the song and how it might develop.

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    Default Re: Men In Black: How finished is it?

    We definitely Need a List of songs, we know are conplete! Like Throwing your Life Away.

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    Default Re: Men In Black: How finished is it?

    Didn't LA Reid say that they had enough songs for two more albums when they were working on Xscape? I don't think there are 100 or even 50 complete or near complete songs. But I reckon there are at least about 20 complete or near complete songs for two more Michael Jackson albums.

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    Default Re: Men In Black: How finished is it?

    “Throwin’ your life away” seems complete

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    Default Re: Men In Black: How finished is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Criminal View Post
    Didn't LA Reid say that they had enough songs for two more albums when they were working on Xscape? I don't think there are 100 or even 50 complete or near complete songs. But I reckon there are at least about 20 complete or near complete songs for two more Michael Jackson albums.
    LA Reid and Sony had 24 vocally complete songs for Xscape and that is without will.i.am songs, RedOne songs and all the songs Michael had on his hard drives at his home the day he died (the hard drives that LaToya stole from his house).

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    Default Re: Men In Black: How finished is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by lounisp View Post
    “Throwin’ your life away” seems complete
    I had the opportunity to hear that track 6 months ago. It's around 7 minutes long.

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    Default Re: Men In Black: How finished is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dilan View Post
    I had the opportunity to hear that track 6 months ago. It's around 7 minutes long.
    What did you think of it?

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    Default Re: Men In Black: How finished is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Criminal View Post
    Didn't LA Reid say that they had enough songs for two more albums when they were working on Xscape? I don't think there are 100 or even 50 complete or near complete songs. But I reckon there are at least about 20 complete or near complete songs for two more Michael Jackson albums.
    Two more albums, maybe - that would be short albums, with around ten songs on each. Not hundreds of songs, as some fans believe. The engineers I've spoken to still seem to think, even so, that those songs would require a lot of work and "contemporising", which might not be worth it, in the long run; keeping in mind how expensive studio time is and how, historically, only luke warm support has been given to posthumous albums/projects, by the fan base, in general.

    Personally, I would LOVE to hear the remaining (mostly) finished songs, put together in the same way that Xscape was, for example... with the original demos included, alongside the finished, or re-worked/reimagined tracks. My heart and mind is open, ready to receive ALL that is left of Michael's work, but I think the Estate may have given up on that angle, for the moment at least.

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    Default Re: Men In Black: How finished is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikky Dee View Post
    Two more albums, maybe - that would be short albums, with around ten songs on each. Not hundreds of songs, as some fans believe. The engineers I've spoken to still seem to think, even so, that those songs would require a lot of work and "contemporising", which might not be worth it, in the long run; keeping in mind how expensive studio time is and how, historically, only luke warm support has been given to posthumous albums/projects, by the fan base, in general.

    Personally, I would LOVE to hear the remaining (mostly) finished songs, put together in the same way that Xscape was, for example... with the original demos included, alongside the finished, or re-worked/reimagined tracks. My heart and mind is open, ready to receive ALL that is left of Michael's work, but I think the Estate may have given up on that angle, for the moment at least.
    They can always do a duets album for songs that have limited vocals from MJ. I bet that is on the cards.

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    Default Re: Men In Black: How finished is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dilan View Post
    I had the opportunity to hear that track 6 months ago. It's around 7 minutes long.
    Dilan the photographer 😉

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    Default Re: Men In Black: How finished is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dilan View Post
    I had the opportunity to hear that track 6 months ago. It's around 7 minutes long.
    Original version or 2010 Neff-U mix?

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    Default Re: Men In Black: How finished is it?

    I've always figured Michael helped start the thought of hundreds of songs to help with image of the creative mastermind/ perfectionist always at work etc.. And its easy to say 30 songs for this album, 100 songs for this album.. In some cases it may be "semi" true.. a bunch of ideas of songs + songs introduced to him would equal a large number of songs.. This does not say a word to songs that are recorded and/or to what extent.. Plus as we know some songs evolve into others.


    There is music out there for sure, what can be considered complete is more or less a handful.. With that handful the estate has to be smart on stretching the released because if we get 2 full albums of unreleased material (lets say) within the next decade.. the fallowing decades will be dry.
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    Default Re: Men In Black: How finished is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dilan View Post
    I spoke to brad about this its simply not true. More than half of those 50 would have just been getting a feel for a groove or just a chorus
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikky Dee View Post
    I completely agree with you. I have spoken to Brad about this, as well and he is definitely in a position to know. This idea that fans have, about "hundreds of songs" is a myth, in my opinion......a story that has built up and been added to, over time and one which Michael never really bothered to refute.....in fact, he actively added to this myth, in depositions, etc. in order to create a picture of rich vaults of untapped material.....but it just does not exist. 50 songs, or 100 songs could mean anything at all.....just beats, lines, chords....a few sketchy bars. Brad actually played us quite a few demos that he called "song sketches" and he basically said that most of the material that remains, is just like that. A lot of times, there are no lyrics at all, merely humming and other sounds, with Michael kind of "jamming" with the musicians and getting a general feeling for the song and how it might develop.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikky Dee View Post
    Two more albums, maybe - that would be short albums, with around ten songs on each. Not hundreds of songs, as some fans believe.
    Regarding Brad Sundberg, when he was about to begin his series of seminars he talked here about many unreleased songs & not just for beats, lines, chords, grooves or simple choruses.

    MJJC: “Do you remember any of Michael's songs that remain unreleased to this day and if yes, which ones are your favorites? Can you tell us a little about these unreleased songs?

    Brad Sundberg: “Sorry – I know many songs, but I am going to pass on that one.

    The number that I mentioned earlier (of more than 50 nearly completed, unreleased songs from those 3 sessions) is not a myth, neither did MJ intentionally try to create a picture of rich vaults because there was no point in doing that.

    What is a myth is that only 20 – 25 of nearly completed, unreleased songs out of his entire career exist (for only two more posthumous albums).

    Note for example that for the ‘BAD’ album alone, MJ fully recorded a great number of songs that easily exceeded 50 because his original intention was to choose from them for a 3 disc set album.

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