View Poll Results: Do I believe It Is Michael On The Three Tracks In Question.

Voters
395. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    157 39.75%
  • No

    138 34.94%
  • I Can Not Decide

    24 6.08%
  • Maybe in Parts

    76 19.24%
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Thread: The Great Debate - Poll of Polls

   
  1. #1051
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    Default Re: The Great Debate - Poll of Polls

    Quote Originally Posted by deano View Post
    Sanhabib.

    You seem to have very twisted, probably selective, ideas on what should be considered 'proof' or not.

    You seem to be saying that; if one of the Jacksons said something happened then it should be accepted unless posters on here can prove otherwise - is that right?

    Is it only members of the Jackson family that this applies to, or does the apply to everybody?*

    Perhaps you can enlighten me, as I'm confused.
    Let me help you with your confusion.*

    Members of the Jackson family as well as Cory Rooney and other interested parties have claimed the vocals are fake. I want the 'believers' to prove them wrong. Not to slander them. Not to cast doubts on their characters. Because if they do that, i can equally cast aspersions on the people involved in claiming the vocals are legitimate.

    I want 'believers' to prove that the family, Cory Rooney and other interested parties are lying.

    Understand that most fans - even on this poll here on MJJC - doubt the*authenticity of the*vocals on the Cascio songs.*

    So the onus is on the people who are selling those songs as legitimate to prove they are legitimate. So far they've provided precisely ZERO evidence. Just uncorroborated claims.

    Are you still confused? Is that still 'twisted' for you? Prove that the family are lying. That's what I'm asking.

  2. #1052
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    Default Re: The Great Debate - Poll of Polls

    Quote Originally Posted by samhabib View Post
    So the onus is on the people who are selling those songs as legitimate to prove they are legitimate. So far they've provided precisely ZERO evidence. Just uncorroborated claims.
    legally speaking - you are wrong. There's presumption of innocence and it's presumed to be a MJ album.

    "the necessity of proof always lies with the person who lays charges" so whoever is claiming an illegitimate album/vocals are the ones with the burden of proof.


    - regardless can we please stop asking for proof from either side -
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  3. #1053
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    Default Re: The Great Debate - Poll of Polls

    Quote Originally Posted by ivy View Post
    - regardless can we please [stop] asking for proof from either side -
    Yes, it's a useless request which neither side can satisfy.

    I feel the MJ voice/accent thread is a good alternative of gaining some insight. The proof angle will just go round in circles, no one will win, and it'll just get people's backs up.

  4. #1054
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    Default Re: The Great Debate - Poll of Polls

    Quote Originally Posted by AnnieRUOkay89 View Post
    Seriously, you're a mess...As far as me saying Franks name weren't on the bottles, laughable, because in nowhere in my post did I say that.
    Completely incorrect. You claimed there were 'other' alias' on them and that Frank's had nothing to do with the 'pill bottle'. Right here in fact...

    Quote Originally Posted by AnnieRUOkay89 View Post
    Sorry to break it to you, but factually, Frank had nothing to do with whatever pill bottle was discovered, there were other alias' on them, you keep throwing him into that as if he was involved, when there's not the slightest indication that he was. Talk about slander, the only slander is coming from you.
    Quote Originally Posted by AnnieRUOkay89 View Post
    I didn't slander the Jackson Clan.
    Yes you did.

    Quote Originally Posted by AnnieRUOkay89 View Post
    I disputed your reasoning with facts
    No you didn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by AnnieRUOkay89 View Post
    I said it's hypocritical that you believe he's being 100% honest without such proof that this meeting ever happened, yet at the same time, call Sony and The Estate liars for the same reason. It's utter stupidity, seriously, and you should cut it out.
    Firstly most fans doubt the authenticity of the vocals. Not just me. Most fans. Even by MJJC's own poll. So the majority of the fans doubt the tracks are completely legitimate. The onus is on the Estate and Sony to prove the vocals are legitimate. They've provided precisely NOTHING to support the legitimacy of the tracks. Absolutely nothing.*

    'Hypocrite'? 'A mess'? 'Stupid'? And not once do the Mods warn you? Incredible.*

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    Default Re: The Great Debate - Poll of Polls

    Quote Originally Posted by ivy View Post
    legally speaking - you are wrong. There's presumption of innocence and it's presumed to be a MJ album.

    "the necessity of proof always lies with the person who lays charges" so whoever is claiming an illegitimate album/vocals are the ones with the burden of proof.


    - regardless can we please stop asking for proof from either side -
    Legally speaking, sellers should be able to prove their claims. If I bought a Mercedes and it drove like a Fiat, I'd want to know why.

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    Default Re: The Great Debate - Poll of Polls

    Hasn't the Estate proved their claims by the statement they released, plus the various people involved backing those claims up? The fact that the Estate released that statement means that they are legally sound unless hard evidence proves that they are cheating the people. So, legally speaking... The fact that they've released the product, have credited MJ as the lead singer and has released a statement affirming their claims would put them in a tight legal bind should they be found out to be fraudsters. Ergo, without proof, there is no way to combat the Estate. Granted, none of us can gather proof for the obvious reasoning that we are merely fans and do not have access to home videos/studio sessions. So... This is basically a standstill.

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    Default Re: The Great Debate - Poll of Polls

    Quote Originally Posted by samhabib View Post
    Legally speaking, sellers should be able to prove their claims. If I bought a Mercedes and it drove like a Fiat, I'd want to know why.
    are you making your own laws now? or mixing up what you want with what is the law?

    Example :Watch commercials and you'll see sentences like "4 out of 5 dentists recommend.." . Where are the legal proof for such claims?

    It's simple. "Michael" is legally presumed to be a "Michael Jackson" album. Whoever challenges this is the one with the burden of proof.

    and again as we all know no one from either side can prove anything, I strongly suggest to let go of this "show me proof" talk.
    Twitter : Ivy_4MJ

  8. #1058
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    Default Re: The Great Debate - Poll of Polls

    Quote Originally Posted by ivy View Post
    legally speaking - you are wrong. There's presumption of innocence and it's presumed to be a MJ album.

    "the necessity of proof always lies with the person who lays charges" so whoever is claiming an illegitimate album/vocals are the ones with the burden of proof.


    - regardless can we please stop asking for proof from either side -
    Uhh, it depends on the country actually.

    In the USA you have to prove that someone is guilty. In some other European countries, for example, if someone press charges against someone, this latter has to prove his innocence.

    It is true that Michael was American citizen, but the issue of the album seems international. So all depends to which court you go. How about headquarters in Japan and what is the judicial system over there? Innocent untill proven guilty?

  9. #1059
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    Default Re: The Great Debate - Poll of Polls

    Quote Originally Posted by BUMPER SNIPPET View Post
    Uhh, it depends on the country actually.

    In the USA you have to prove that someone is guilty. In some other European countries, for example, if someone press charges against someone, this latter has to prove his innocence.

    It is true that Michael was American citizen, but the issue of the album seems international. So all depends to which court you go. How about headquarters in Japan and what is the judicial system over there? Innocent untill proven guilty?
    Don't know anything about Japan. But isn't the album released by "Epic Records" which is an American company?
    Twitter : Ivy_4MJ

  10. #1060
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    Default Re: The Great Debate - Poll of Polls

    Quote Originally Posted by ivy View Post
    Don't know anything about Japan. But isn't the album released by "Epic Records" which is an American company?

    Indeed it is. But who has the final word in all this? Sony US or Sony JP?

    Of course if you go to an American court you need to prove someone is guilty. But that wouldn't be the case if someone pressed charges against Sony in Europe. So which court would be more competent? Local or international?

  11. #1061
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    Default Re: The Great Debate - Poll of Polls

    Quote Originally Posted by BUMPER SNIPPET View Post
    What crap now? This is really pushing it too far.

    Haven't you noticed that some non-doubters constantly label people as conspiracy theorists and make them look dumb? Yet no warnings?

    The other day someone told me directly to shut up and nobody from the staff saw that. Ok you are humans. But I am not the kind to report things easily, because it is childish.

    Now, when Sam expresses his opinion that he cannot understand how people can believe it is Michael on those songs he gets a warning.

    Why don't you delete all our non-believers posts and ban Sam and some of us forever?
    THAT IS NOT WHAT I MEANT!

    I'm really getting sick and f*cking tired of you lot jumping on every little thing I do. Samhabib was clearly winding up a member saying crap like 'you posted I hate samhabib' which is totally untrue.

    I feel like you're choosing to see what you see and ignore. FFS.

    EDIT: samhabib, that's what I meant by cut the crap. Clear enough now??
    ​Like a sunset, dying with the rising of the moon. Gone too soon...

  12. #1062
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    Default Re: The Great Debate - Poll of Polls

    Quote Originally Posted by StaceyMJ View Post
    THAT IS NOT WHAT I MEANT!

    I'm really getting sick and f*cking tired of you lot jumping on every little thing I do. Samhabib was clearly winding up a member saying crap like 'you posted I hate samhabib' which is totally untrue.

    I feel like you're choosing to see what you see and ignore. FFS.

    EDIT: samhabib, that's what I meant by cut the crap. Clear enough now??
    Wow! Did I insult you the way you are insulting me?

    I am not selectively jumping on every little thing you do, I am reacting to comments which are quite unfair regardless who says it. Why would I jump on you? I even don't know you.

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    Default Re: The Great Debate - Poll of Polls

    Quote Originally Posted by BUMPER SNIPPET View Post
    Wow! Did I insult you the way you are insulting me?

    I am not selectively jumping on every little thing you do, I am reacting to comments which are quite unfair regardless who says it. Why would I jump on you? I even don't know you.
    ???

    You didn't even respond to what I was saying. You know what, just carry on. I'm done with trying to keep any kind of order in this thread.
    ​Like a sunset, dying with the rising of the moon. Gone too soon...

  14. #1064
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    Default Re: The Great Debate - Poll of Polls

    Quote Originally Posted by StaceyMJ View Post
    ???

    You didn't even respond to what I was saying. You know what, just carry on. I'm done with trying to keep any kind of order in this thread.
    Listen, first calm down.

    Second, explain to me what did I get or do wrong here to make you feel "sick and f*cking tired" of me?

  15. #1065
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    Default Re: The Great Debate - Poll of Polls

    Quote Originally Posted by BUMPER SNIPPET View Post
    Listen, first calm down.

    Second, explain to me what did I get or do wrong here to make you feel "sick and f*cking tired" of me?
    You see the post I quoted? That. I'm tired of being accused of favouring people who don't think the vocals on the album authentic. Why would it bother me what anybody thinks? I'm just trying to keep order in here. That is all. But I'm getting bombarded by you and others in this thread, by PM and anything I say gets completely ignored. It's impossible. I'm sorry for blowing up at you. I just really am at my wits end with this situation. Maybe it's time for me to step away from all this. Apologies.
    ​Like a sunset, dying with the rising of the moon. Gone too soon...

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