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MJ CLINICALLY DEAD Long Before Medical Help Turned Up at His LA home.

Didn't family say he was still warm at the hospital? Surely if that were the case, he couldn't have been dead for more than 3 hours.
 
"But I was told Dr Murray wanted to work on him - he carried on doing CPR and insisted he needed hospital treatment. He continued giving Michael CPR all the way to UCLA and even in the emergency room.
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what? Murray went with them to the hospital?
 
A_Powerful_Mind said:
They're gonna get caught. Murray can turn on as many furnaces and do as much CPR as he wants. The autopsy report will pinpoint the EXACT time of death.

I hope Mrs. Jackson has her lawyers ready....
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But doesn't CPR keep the organs alive? So if it's done for an extended period then it stops rigor setting in so quickly, plus the fires in LA in June :smilerolleyes: So to me that would confuse time of death, but I'm not a medical doctor.
 
Wow, so thats why the room was so hot, (to keep his body warm). it hurts me to hear this I don't care for this Dr. he poss died over a phone call.
 
This is just sick.

I wont be surprised at all if it turns out Michael was long dead before he made it to the hospital. What bothers me the most of this, aside from all the crap these so called doctors pulled, is that it is being reported Prince was called upstairs. This would mean he didnt see his father unconcious, but dead!

What a mess...
 
what is this about the fires burning...i hadn't heard about that?

also, apparently cpr can not bring a person back once their heart has stopped beating. so he could perform as much cpr as he liked, until someone was on hand with a diffibrulator he could not bring a dead person back to life. a doctor should know that. call an ambulance first, perform cpr next.
 
from what i remember hearing was that michael wasnt breathing when they (the paramedics) found him. they tried reviving him and cracked his ribs because he was so thin and they were exerting alot of pressure to try and bring him back to life. they worked on him for 45 minutes or an hour or something like that but it was no good. he was dead.
 
Marni said:
Didn't family say he was still warm at the hospital? Surely if that were the case, he couldn't have been dead for more than 3 hours.
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The body will still feel "warm" to the touch for hours after time of death. It's internal organs that loose temp.


Angel Cake said:
But doesn't CPR keep the organs alive? So if it's done for an extended period then it stops rigor setting in so quickly, plus the fires in LA in June :smilerolleyes: So to me that would confuse time of death, but I'm not a medical doctor.
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CPR is Cardiac Pulmonary Resuscitation. It is compressions to get the heart pumping. That's all. If the heart has stopped long enough for rigor to set in (hrs... no one can go that long and he didn't have him on a hard surface) then cpr is a waste of time and more so in this case with the drugs present (if they were). He needed drugs to reverse the effect of the general anasthetic and i dare say a difibulator (ER "Clear.... ZAP")

I will look forward to the coroners report..
 
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janena said:
I dont believe this particular tabloid but in my heart i know he probably died like 2,5 hrs before the official time of death...
My husband knew someone had passed away when he was praying and that was aprox. 2,5 hrs beforee he officially died in the hospital.
He didnt know who but it was someone we both had a connection with is what he told me.
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I had that feeling too, I wrote about it on another thread and the only other time I had it before I was told my relative had died 2 hours before when the cold feeling had started. I have a gut feeling that he was dead an hour or 2 before they announced it.

This is what I put before:
http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=72156&highlight=astrologer
I felt cold all around me that evening(I'm in the UK) and then I felt awful health wise. So much so I thought ahead and cancelled my photo assignment the next day. I had lots of chest pain and felt 'out of it' - it was odd as I wasn't stressed and the last time I had it was 2005 when a relative died, I had it then a few hours and when my mum called although the relative had been getting better I had a 'feeling' and before she said anything I asked if they had died and she said yes and I explained I'd felt that way for a few hours and she said well that is when they died.

The night I found out about Michael my mum came to my room and said have you heard he is has maybe had a heart attack, I looked at her said 'I've been feeling really strange, you know I think he'll die' and she came back a few minutes later and said 'you are right they are reporting he has died' - I don't know why I would have felt like that before he died, I didn't know him and hadn't met him. There was a big bolt of lightening here when they said he'd died as we were having a thunderstorm - which does give me headaches but doesn't give me the feelings I had that night, they were odd, not nice. Almost felt like my body was numb, you know like when you are drunk and stoned except you are not.
 
the thing where they really stuffed up is waiting to call emergency. most people know if you believe someone is in trouble you ring straight away as the slightest delay can make the difference between someone living and someone dying

for example. my mom last year was having breathing problems. she looked really not well at all and i kept at her asking her if she wanted me to ring emergency and she was indecisive but i just said look im ringing emergency and talked to them and they got to her in no time at all and they came into our place and observed her condition, asking question and then took her to hospital. in the rush i had actually forgotten to ask what hospital they had taken her too (i know silly!) but a friend rang the hospitals and found out and everything was fine.

if someone has a faint pulse, or isnt breathing - you ring asap!
 
also im a bit puzzled by something, when someone dies the bladder empties. likewise if it was a massive drug overdose like some have claimed with pills then there could have been vomitting because often a person vomits up the contents of their stomach even if they have regularly used pills. i remember reading reports that the scene had been cleaned up and there were reports that argued which room he had actually been in. so i definitely think theres more going on. hopefully when this goes to court (which im pretty sure it will) it will clear up some questions
 
Victoria83 said:
Murray has already caught himself in at least one lie that can be proven. He first said he didn't call 911 because there were no working phones. And later he said he stepped out of the room to make calls. . . on a working phone.
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I think the first we heard about that was via Murray's lawyer, Chernoff, on the 29th June.

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/MichaelJackson/story?id=7954316&page=1

"Chernoff said that once Murray realized that CPR was not bringing Jackson back, Murray, he said, tried to dial 911 on his cell phone but did not have the exact address of Jackson's home. And with none of the phones in the home working "for privacy reasons," Murray ran around the house till he found Jackson's chef, who alerted security."

So I don't think he lied about not having a cell phone.

But I don't buy the "he would have called 911 but he didn't have the exact address" story for a second.
 
krism said:
also im a bit puzzled by something, when someone dies the bladder empties. likewise if it was a massive drug overdose like some have claimed with pills then there could have been vomitting because often a person vomits up the contents of their stomach even if they have regularly used pills. i remember reading reports that the scene had been cleaned up and there were reports that argued which room he had actually been in. so i definitely think theres more going on. hopefully when this goes to court (which im pretty sure it will) it will clear up some questions
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could have something to do with the blood on the blouse n the wardrobe
 
the whole who rang who and at what time can easily be cleared up by requesting the phone records. likewise at autopsy they can trace when the person died by the state of the body. ie. rigamortus (i think i spelt that wrong).

i hope people do get answers to their question and that this doesnt become another monroe case. her death scene has always been a bit suspicious because people werent called for hours and when she was found she was clutching a phone in her hand and laying face down on the bed. when you die the whole body relaxes (before later hardening) so the idea she could still be holding a phone is a bit incredulous. police that were first on the scene had the definite impression that the scene has been cleaned up and staged.

i wouldnt be at all surprised if something similar happened to michael but we will learn more when the investigation is done and when charges are laid (which im pretty sure they will be)
 
maybe this is why the investigation is taking a long time and why results havent been made public - could be the police are busy building a case against someone (or multiple persons) and retracing who prescribed what and for what reasons and backdating everything and tracing it all back so that when the results are made public they can lay charges and do it all simulataneously
 
Joe Jackson said Murray left for hours and they couldnt track where he went,it could be that MJ was killed in the morning around 9-10 ,murray left the house,called 2 assistants to get files destroyed in his office,met with Dileo and together they concocted this whole heart attack angle,although what Dileo had to gain i dont know?
In Dileos words MJ was packing for England on the 24th night because he had the rehearsals on the 23rd night that finished very late into the night,FACT.
 
Aengil said:
I think the first we heard about that was via Murray's lawyer, Chernoff, on the 29th June.

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/MichaelJackson/story?id=7954316&page=1

"Chernoff said that once Murray realized that CPR was not bringing Jackson back, Murray, he said, tried to dial 911 on his cell phone but did not have the exact address of Jackson's home. And with none of the phones in the home working "for privacy reasons," Murray ran around the house till he found Jackson's chef, who alerted security."

So I don't think he lied about not having a cell phone.

But I don't buy the "he would have called 911 but he didn't have the exact address" story for a second.
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If he didn't have a "working" cell phone, on what was he calling, as his attorney later said, staff and family in the middle of the night? Telepathy?

Not knowing one's address has no effect on whether or not a cell phone works, or whether or not one uses it. All he had to say was "Michael Jackson's house." Easily findable by EMTs.

It's impossible to believe that none of the phones in the house were working. Plus there is a photo showing a landline phone by Michael's bed. Michael was very security-conscious and would have had his staff make SURE phones were working. I doubt his service had been cut off for non-payment!

How could a doctor manage to treat anyone if he didn't have the raw intelligence to figure out the address of the location where he was working? Even a teenaged baby-sitter makes sure the address of the house where she/he is baby-sitting is written down. It's basic safety.

So, not sure what you are trying to say here?
 
thats one area where they did botch the investigation - they should have raided the doctors office and home on the same day. i mean they have several teams - its not like they couldnt hit both areas at the same time.

but they recovered several computer harddrives so unless they were professionally wiped any information that was deleted could be recovered.

likewise with prescriptions, even if murray had destroyed his copy there should still be other copies on databases out there. im not sure how it works in america but here in australia, if you prescribe certain drugs the doctor who is authenicating the script has to ring a medical body and give a receipt number. this is done especially when it comes to drugs that arent readily prescribed and done when the dosage might be particularly large so if the chemist questions it they can ring the medical body and get the receipt number.
 
thats the weird thing about the claims of not knowing the address. hes been there several times, possibly many times. and he doesnt know the address?

and i dont believe the story that none of the phones were working either. if that had happened with my mom last year i would have run out and gone to a neighbors house or flagged down a motorist. and they had vehicles no? if they are breathing funny, why not put them in your vehicle and drive to the nearest hospital?

i mean hes a doctor no? or is he gonna claim he doesnt know where the hospitals are either?
 
CherubimII said:
Krism

Unless, your intention is that Michael Jackson die.
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hmm as much as i think a whole lot of suspect sh*t went down, i really don't think he wanted mike to die. apparently he was freaking "you have to save him" etc because his ass is grass if this man dies.

he was looking for a quick buck "sure i'll anethetise you illegally...that'll be 100 grand a month thanks".

but i'm pretty sure the good doc didn't anticipate this shit storm that he now has no escape from. he thought his future was full of $$$$$$$$$$ signs but i think it's more likely it will be full of prison bars (and his new girlfriend Fred....hey doc, can you pass me the soap)
 
CherubimII said:
But most tellingly, the star's body showed clear signs of what medics call LIVIDITY - when the blood drains to the bottom of the body after the heart stops.
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This bother me alot "Lividity" so I asked my Granny the Nurse I had never heard this word, this is what I think she tried to explain to me, she said first that is a bad sign Lividity because this person has died and means that person has been for hours like up to or even more than 4 hours, she asked me if they had said if he was on resporation equipment if a tube had been in his throat that could have kept him alive in a vegetative state and his body warm and gave him a heartbeat like a person she said on life support with mechanical respiration when the heart and lung are bypass with these instruments. She said a person who requires life support is unconscious in most cases but not all and given an Anestic drug to place them on this equipment until Life Support is no longer needed by either the patient wakes up from the coma or the family pulls the plug. The strange thing last night I had a dream maybe reading to much but all Michael enemies where in the room with him and they where taking turns injecting him with needles laughing and joking at him while he was hooked up to all these tubes, if any of this is true Michael died an unrealistic death and he died for hours, I have always felt spoooky when that AEG guy was on television the week after Michael was found talking about they walked him to his car and he thanked them, I really believe with this article and I do believe it Michael was subdued in the car he was riding in, something just didnt sound right when that AEG guy was talking about speaking with Michael in the car after rehearsal that morning.
 
I have always felt spoooky when that AEG guy was on television the week after Michael was found talking about they walked him to his car and he thanked them, I really believe with this article and I do believe it Michael was subdued in the car he was riding in, something just didnt sound right when that AEG guy was talking about speaking with Michael in the car after rehearsal that morning.

can you find the article anywhere ,did he mean the 23rd night /24th morning
 
Angel Cake said:
But doesn't CPR keep the organs alive? So if it's done for an extended period then it stops rigor setting in so quickly, plus the fires in LA in June :smilerolleyes: So to me that would confuse time of death, but I'm not a medical doctor.
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I don't know about that. I think Mike was dead for at least an hour when Murry found him. I think between him performing "CPR" and turning up the heat he was trying to keep him warm enough that he could pass him off as comatose and not DEAD.

It obviously didn't work though because the medics said he was dead when they got there and from the lividity talk it seems he was dead for a while.

Poor mike...even his death was a performance (not on his part).
 
Victoria83 said:
So, not sure what you are trying to say here?
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Chernoff didn't say Murray didn't have a working cell phone. He has never claimed that Murray didn't have a working cell phone. To my knowledge no-one has ever said that Murray didn't have a working cell phone. It is not correct to say Murray lied about not having a phone at all. Is that clear enough?

What Chernoff said was that Murray didn't use his cell phone because he didn't know the address, and he didn't use the landline phones because they didn't work.

i.e. Murray wasn't lying about having a cell phone. Lying about not knowing the address, yes, lying about the landline phones not working, quite possibly, but he hasn't lied about having a cell phone. Hence, finding out he was making phone calls on his cell phone earlier doesn't contradict what he's said.

That's all.
 
Goodbye Michael said:
i really don't think he wanted mike to die.
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I don't agree with this.

If he was really concerned about Michaels well being, he would had have everything in place in case of an emergency.

This man had no equipment to even monitor him with, nothing.

This doctor could care less of Michael lived or died. That much is obvious.
 
Mrs. SHAME said:
Wow, so thats why the room was so hot, (to keep his body warm). it hurts me to hear this I don't care for this Dr. he poss died over a phone call.
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I think Dr. Murray is just saying that he stepped out to make phone calls, because they are going to see that he made phone calls in the morning and he wants to make it seem like Michael was still alive at that time.
 
chocabloc said:
I have always felt spoooky when that AEG guy was on television the week after Michael was found talking about they walked him to his car and he thanked them, I really believe with this article and I do believe it Michael was subdued in the car he was riding in, something just didnt sound right when that AEG guy was talking about speaking with Michael in the car after rehearsal that morning.

can you find the article anywhere ,did he mean the 23rd night /24th morning
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As he walked to his car, he put his arm around concert promoter Randy Phillips and -- as Phillips later recounted -- in his soft voice, whispered: "Thank you, I know we're going to get it there together. I know I can do this."

That was late Wednesday night, June 24. A few hours later, Jackson was rushed to a hospital and pronounced dead.




I watched him live saying this on one of those Morning talk shows and it sent chills over my body it was just something I cant put my finger on the way Randy Phillips said what Michael said it just didnt sound real and truthful, and of course I know these people are up all night and morning but it just seem out of place for an Executive like him to be up that time of morning overseeing what was going on especially as far as I know his home is in London maybe Im wrong but it seems now they where here for more than a rehearsal footage recording and walking him to his car it just gave me the creeps looking at his facial expession and hearing him say that I cant explain it but the feeling is still here, but I found it on CNN.


http://edition.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Music/07/02/jackson.rehearsals/index.html
 
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