Death from Propofol Article

[AlvaMJJ]

I have to disagree with you on this one. Michael WANTED to perform again, he WANTED to show his children want he said HE CAN STILL DO. And with the nights where he couldn't sleep, I get nights like that too sometimes, especially when I have these big creative ideas in my head, I want to stay up with them. So that was normal for Michael.

Michael probably never even asked for propofol. Just think about it, Michael is not here to say otherwise. All he has speaking for him now are shady people who contradict themselves. Hell no, I wouldn't believe those people. I could go on and explain more why I don't think he asked for the drug but it's too much and I don't feel like it.

Just imagine if Michael accidently died on the day he was convicted on child molestation. He would not be there to tell the truth and say otherwise. And EVERYONE, maybe even some fans, would believe he was a freak. But, Michael was alive. He told the truth. We heard his side and what he had to say. And now, the people know he was innoncent. (Although, us fans always knew he was, right?)

But now, Michael is not here. And people are saying that he asked for that deadly propofol even after so many different injections. However, Michael is not here. He cannot tell his side of the story. So now many are believing the whole propofol thing, because it is the only thing being said about him, this man who has been surrounded by lies nearly all his life.

Come on guys, I thought Michael's fans didn't fall for things like this.

Anyways, during the invincible era, Michael told his fans, "I PROMISE next time will be even better. I PROMISE."

That shows us right there that Michael wasn't planning to quit still. Plus, he doesn't break promises. He tried to make an album in 2005 but he was stopped. Then he was planning to not only make an album in 2009, but also the best tour in history, so he was killed.

And yes, Michael said he didn't want to grow very old and still perform like Jame's Brown and Fred Austere. But I remember Michael saying on his 50th Birthday, "I feel very young." Michael felt he was not too old, but young enough to do his final curtain call. To me, that's sound like the way he would want to do it anyways, with a final curtian call, not saying "im through. that's it" and retire. Michael was a professionalist.

Are you in earnest? Why do you take Michael as the ultimate source of truth? He was only human. He had weaknesses and strengths like anyone else. He could make you so many promises, as he wanted. And break these promises. Michael had contradicted himself in many cases, too: On the one hand, he doesn't want to grow old. And on the other hand he wants to live forever. Don't be so blinded by love. He hasn't died in vain because of a propofol poisoning.

 

[MIST]

I think MJ just wanted to sleep for the night. The night before his last night he was able to sleep on other drugs than propofol and on his last night the doctor tried those drugs again.
Michael didn´t ask för propofol from start but we dont know what happened later.
But you shall never mix other drugs with propofol and Murray should know that.

I don´t know what Michael knew about propofol but he might have thought it was safe if a doctor was there with him.When he first got propofol during history tour someone must have told him it was safe if you do it right otherwise I don´t think he would have allowed it.

Murray said they used propofol the last 5-6 weeks it means that MJ didnt use it when the rehearsals began.I guess he was desperate after several sleepless nights and he had to be able to perform and create a great show.

But in this case the lethal dose he got was much higher than the dose he was supposed to have and I don´t know what had happened if the doctor was there when MJ stopped breathing doing proper cpr and call for help.
There were people in the house and if the doctor had screamed someone should have heard him and could have called for ambulance while cpr was done by the doctor.

 

[kasume]

Are you in earnest? Why do you take Michael as the ultimate source of truth? He was only human. He had weaknesses and strengths like anyone else. He could make you so many promises, as he wanted. And break these promises. Michael had contradicted himself in many cases, too: On the one hand, he doesn't want to grow old. And on the other hand he wants to live forever. Don't be so blinded by love. He hasn't died in vain because of a propofol poisoning.

The older you grow, the closer you meet death, and Michael wanted to live forever. (Like most people do). Michael was not contradicting himself on that.

And I think us as fans really shouldn't give in to the whole him asking for propofol story so easily. Because now, there is only ONE side to hear. A whole other fifty percent is unheard.

It's like what someone said, "The only people who know what really happened in that room, is Dr. Murray and Michael Jackson." I find it disappointing how some fans automatically go to Murray's story and believe it. Yes, Murray has told his story. But what about Michael, doesn't he have a side too?

 

[williamorange1]

according to DR. Adams he administered propofol to people 6000 times during the last 7 years and there was never any problem . Propofol is a very safe drug if the one who is administering it a professional and the medical equipment are available . MJ was introduced to it by a doctor , that's for sure . and since he got it during the history tour , he did not feel it was that dangerous , yes Lee warned mj about propofol but she said he kept telling her the doctor told him it was safe .
But one very important fact people tends to forget when mj felt there was something wrong he called Lee out of all people eventhough Murray was available . when he felt half of his body cold and half is hot he called the person who told him it was not safe . He did not call Klien, or anyone else He called lee .

MJ was convinced it was safe because he had never suffered any complications before , but once he felt it may not be as safe as he thought before out of all people he called the nurse who once told him it was not safe . THAT TELLS YOU MJ WAS NOT TOLD IT WAS THAT DANGEROUS .

Klien is a liar , I don't believe he warned mj , the guy was fired from university because he was selling illegal drugs to his fellow students .

Murray's was bankrupt and he knew if he told mj to stop taking propofol after that incident , his presence would not have been needed , he was taking 150.000$ a month to administer propofol , I highly doubt Murray even tried to "wean mj off" propofol (not that I even believe mj was addicted to it) .

Murray's whole story is very suspicious to say the least . the last benzo he gave to mj was Midazolam three hours before he gave him propofol, yet the contributing factor was lorazepam , even though the amounts murray provided were the same .(his story)

either lorazepam or midazolam are given usually before administering propofol . so his claims he was giving him these drugs instead of propofol are BS.

lorazepam would stay in the system up to 9 days , midazolam up to 3 days .

we don't know the amounts found and when they were injected . the fact that murray mentioned lorazepam to the paramedics and to the doctors at UCLA , and left an empty pill bottle of lorazepam at mj's bathroom, hid all the drugs associated with propofol , created an overdose scene , then after two days during the interview he admitted he administered propofl , and changed the whole story about lorazepma, confirms to me that murray knew the lorazepam amounts in mj's body were HUGE and over the top . and he gave him those amounts because he knew propofol would disappear and lorazepam will be considered the cause of death , and the pill bottle would be an evidence that mj took it on his own without murray's knowledge . but his lawyer told him it would be very risky if he went with this story and some one mentioned the oxygen and propofol so he had to change his story and admit he was giving propofol but he tried to downplay the part about lorazepam and why he first wanted the whole attention to be on that drug , the question remains Murray indeed knew lorazepam was a factor in mj's death, but HOW DID HE KNEW IT WAS LORAZEPAM ?

there is much to the story than many here think, murray's version of event is very stupid to be even quoted as "facts" .

 

[AlvaMJJ]

But one very important fact people tends to forget when mj felt there was something wrong he called Lee out of all people eventhough Murray was available . when he felt half of his body cold and half is hot he called the person who told him it was not safe . He did not call Klien, or anyone else He called lee .
MJ was convinced it was safe because he had never suffered any complications before , but once he felt it may not be as safe as he thought before out of all people he called the nurse who once told him it was not safe . THAT TELLS YOU MJ WAS NOT TOLD IT WAS THAT DANGEROUS.

But why Michael hasn't just stopped his medication? He has already suffered the complications on his own body. As a precaution, it would be logical to stop with the administration of propofol. Don't you think?

Klien is a liar , I don't believe he warned mj , the guy was fired from university because he was selling illegal drugs to his fellow students .

Murray's was bankrupt and he knew if he told mj to stop taking propofol after that incident , his presence would not have been needed, he was taking 150.000$ a month to administer propofol , I highly doubt Murray even tried to "wean mj off" propofol (not that I even believe mj was addicted to it).

Where did you get the information about Klein?

What do you think was the reason why Michael has surrounded himself with these "criminal" doctors?
Perhaps because he was able to get anything from these people, what he wanted. Responsible doctors weren't complied with Michael's demand for propofol or other strong drugs.
What else is there for reasons?

And Murray was still able to continue to treat Michael with another method. But you can be right with your assumption that Murray wasn't interested in weaning Michael off propofol.

 

[Bo G]

Oh, for heaven's sake, not all this misinformation again.

According to all the medical experts who weighed in after MJ's death, MJ is almost certainly the first person EVER KNOWN IN MEDICAL HISTORY to have used Propofol as a nightly replacement for sleep.

Since (please correct me if I'm wrong) there are credible reports he used Propofol on the History tour, the doctor administering it, whoever that turns out to be, would almost certainly be the first doctor in history to have ever prescribed or administered Propofol to a patient for insomnia.

The odds that the second doctor in history ever to have prescribed or administered this treatment coincidentally happened to have THE EXACT SAME PATIENT, among the billions of people on planet Earth, are so tiny as to be essentially nonexistent.

Also,

It is utterly impossible to believe that Michael never googled Propofol on the internet and learned it is NEVER used for insomnia, NEVER used outside the operating room, STOPS critical life support systems, and is INCREDIBLY DANGEROUS without a team of trained medical staff, INCLUDING AN ANESTHESIOLOGIST.

 

[gerryevans]

I have to disagree with you on this one. Michael WANTED to perform again, he WANTED to show his children want he said HE CAN STILL DO. And with the nights where he couldn't sleep, I get nights like that too sometimes, especially when I have these big creative ideas in my head, I want to stay up with them. So that was normal for Michael..

I totally agree. He wanted to perform! Even needed to. For emotional as well as financial reasons. But I do think he'd found a remedy to his sleepless nights long ago, and called upon it again for his big comeback.

Michael probably never even asked for propofol. Just think about it, Michael is not here to say otherwise. All he has speaking for him now are shady people who contradict themselves. Hell no, I wouldn't believe those people. I could go on and explain more why I don't think he asked for the drug but it's too much and I don't feel like it.

I happen to believe the nurse nutritionist on this one. She comes off as credible to me as someone who had nothing to gain by coming forth and telling authorities about Michael's request of her for propofol. And that is what he died from. She also steadfastly said that Michael was drug free when they started working together. To say at the beginning of their relationship he was drug free and at the end he was not could implicate her, so why do it. If anything to protect herself, she would've said he was always on drugs.

Just imagine if Michael accidently died on the day he was convicted on child molestation. He would not be there to tell the truth and say otherwise. And EVERYONE, maybe even some fans, would believe he was a freak. But, Michael was alive. He told the truth. We heard his side and what he had to say. And now, the people know he was innoncent. (Although, us fans always knew he was, right?)

But now, Michael is not here. And people are saying that he asked for that deadly propofol even after so many different injections. However, Michael is not here. He cannot tell his side of the story. So now many are believing the whole propofol thing, because it is the only thing being said about him, this man who has been surrounded by lies nearly all his life.

But Michael committed himself to a facility once for drug addiction. That was HIS admission to a problem.

Come on guys, I thought Michael's fans didn't fall for things like this.

Anyways, during the invincible era, Michael told his fans, "I PROMISE next time will be even better. I PROMISE."

That shows us right there that Michael wasn't planning to quit still. Plus, he doesn't break promises. He tried to make an album in 2005 but he was stopped. Then he was planning to not only make an album in 2009, but also the best tour in history, so he was killed.

Please understand I'm not saying he didn't want to entertain, what I'm saying is the pressure and espectactions HE PUT ON HIMSELF to entertain as he wanted to exacerbated a sleeping problem leading to a deadly cure he'd used in the past.

Michael Joseph Jackson didn't just put on concerts. He put on spectacular events, the likes of which no one has ever seen. For his comeback, the show was going to be the greatest concert ever to hit the stage. His perfectionism, his vision, the demands he put on himself to realize this event would have been overwhelming for anyone. For Michael, who also had a $400 million anvil hanging over his head, the pressure was even more intense. No doubt about it. He wanted these concerts. 10 or 50, I don't think even matter because if it was one Michael would have poured just as much of himself and effort into it.

Michael definitely wanted to do the shows and be here to enjoy the fruits of his labor. That's why he had a $150,000 a month doctor to administer to him what he felt would get him through it all.

If you don't believe he enlisted Dr. Murray for the propofol, then I know my argument is moot here. But I believe that's exactly why Dr. Murray was on board. To SAFELY get him through his sleepless nights.

 

[AlvaMJJ]

And I think us as fans really shouldn't give in to the whole him asking for propofol story so easily. Because now, there is only ONE side to hear. A whole other fifty percent is unheard. It's like what someone said, "The only people who know what really happened in that room, is Dr. Murray and Michael Jackson." I find it disappointing how some fans automatically go to Murray's story and believe it. Yes, Murray has told his story. But what about Michael, doesn't he have a side too?

You'll never hear Michael speak again. It's not just about Murray's view of things. It's also about the statements of other people who can contribute something to Michael's case. It's the overall impression. The question is, how could it ever come to the whole propofol story.

Oh, for heaven's sake, not all this misinformation again.

According to all the medical experts who weighed in after MJ's death, MJ is almost certainly the first person EVER KNOWN IN MEDICAL HISTORY to have used Propofol as a nightly replacement for sleep.

Since (please correct me if I'm wrong) there are credible reports he used Propofol on the History tour, the doctor administering it, whoever that turns out to be, would almost certainly be the first doctor in history to have ever prescribed or administered Propofol to a patient for insomnia.

The odds that the second doctor in history ever to have prescribed or administered this treatment coincidentally happened to have THE EXACT SAME PATIENT, among the billions of people on planet Earth, are so tiny as to be essentially nonexistent.

Also,

It is utterly impossible to believe that Michael never googled Propofol on the internet and learned it is NEVER used for insomnia, NEVER used outside the operating room, STOPS critical life support systems, and is INCREDIBLY DANGEROUS without a team of trained medical staff, INCLUDING AN ANESTHESIOLOGIST.

That's how it goes.

 

[xSilkex]

I So NOT dont care what the medias says... He was NOT an drug addict... How.... should he could sing and dance like he did on the rehersal if he was on Drugs.. like they try to tell ???????????????????????? It makes absolutely NO sence !! he was very carefull about his health.. !

 

[gerryevans]

I So NOT dont care what the medias says... He was NOT an drug addict... How.... should he could sing and dance like he did on the rehersal if he was on Drugs.. like they try to tell ???????????????????????? It makes absolutely NO sence !! he was very carefull about his health.. !

It all gets so complicated. I don't know anymore about anything when it comes to drugs and abuse. Is it a matter of semantics or what? If you're taking something often and it's classed as a narcotic, does that make you an addict? And is it a narcotic because of a perceived mental need? But if you have a mental need for something, can't that need manifest itself in a physiological manner and become a physical need as well?

Cocaine, heroin...those are easily idenitifiable for me as drug abuser opiates as their purpose is to reach an unmitigated high.

But something that you take because you perceive it as the only remedy for a chronic sleep disorder, does your taking it make you an addict? Your body must have sleep. If you don't get it and nothing seems to work, what do you do?

Like I said, I don't know anymore. It's all so confusing. I know I could look it all up and get the technical definitions, but without doing that, the one thing I do know definitively is my favorite entertainer in the world and one of the greatest gifts every granted us died from an overdose of an anesthetic administered by a so called cardiologist specialist!

It all just makes me sick.

 

[williamorange1]

MJ did not stop because the doctor who was with him assured him it was safe to stay there and get 150.000$ a month he desperately needed .

MJ got it during the history tour and nothing happened, he hired a cardiologist and he thought the precautions were met again . propofol is not only administered by anesthesiologist , a nurse can administer it (not any nurse ofcourse) .

MJ hired someone who should have known what to do and what instructions to be followed . it was murray who failed to follow what in the book .

there was no "fruit" of getting propofol beside "sleep" , mj was not reinjecting himself over and over againt to feel high . It is very absurd to even believe that he was presented with a more safe way to sleep and insisted on using propofol , you gotta understand there is really no advantage in taking it .

 

[gerryevans]

MJ did not stop because the doctor who was with him assured him it was safe to stay there and get 150.000$ a month he desperately needed .

MJ got it during the history tour and nothing happened, he hired a cardiologist and he thought the precautions were met again . propofol is not only administered by anesthesiologist , a nurse can administer it (not any nurse ofcourse) .

MJ hired someone who should have known what to do and what instructions to be followed . it was murray who failed to follow what in the book .

there was no "fruit" of getting propofol beside "sleep" , mj was not reinjecting himself over and over againt to feel high . It is very absurd to even believe that he was presented with a more safe way to sleep and insisted on using propofol , you gotta understand there is really no advantage in taking it .

I don't know if you're addressing me or not, but I used the "fruit" reference and so are you. If you are addressing me, I happen to be agreeing with your assessment. Michael thought he had taken the necessary precaution by hiring Murray to administer the propofol.

When I used the term fruits of his labor, I was referring to his reaping the awards of his efforts from putting on the type of show he desired.

 

[Bo G]

It all gets so complicated. I don't know anymore about anything when it comes to drugs and abuse...

Like I said, I don't know anymore. It's all so confusing. I know I could look it all up and get the technical definitions, but without doing that, the one thing I do know definitively is my favorite entertainer in the world and one of the greatest gifts every granted us died from an overdose...

I'm seeing this said throughout the threads. Abuse, addiction, dependence... Gerry's wondering if these debates are over semantics? It really isn't. These really do have generally agreed-upon definitions.

Wikipedia is not an ultimate source on any question, but most of the time it can provide a great summary, with pointers to more information, for what seems like everything imaginable these days -- it's amazing. Take a look at these:

Propofol -- non-medical use
Physical dependence
Addiction
Drug Abuse

Now there's an addictive drug... Wikipedia!

 

[AlvaMJJ]

MJ did not stop because the doctor who was with him assured him it was safe to stay there and get 150.000$ a month he desperately needed.

In relation to Murray...
As a layman, you have to be completely crazy to take such a risk. Especially if one has no experience in the field. But maybe it was Murray's ignorance or his great self-confidence that has led him to do so. OK.

MJ got it during the history tour and nothing happened, he hired a cardiologist and he thought the precautions were met again . propofol is not only administered by anesthesiologist , a nurse can administer it (not any nurse ofcourse).

Why hasn't Michael hired someone with experience? Because he couldn't find anyone for this job? Michael would have never found someone with experience. Because the administration of propofol isn't allowed in the domestic setting. Anyone with experience wouldn't take such a risk.

Why the large sum of money? Why this game of hide? Nobody knew what happened in Michael's bedroom at night. Where did the intimacy between Murray and Michael come about? That's why I guess..both of them knew that the treatment with propofol is illegal. Michael and Murray probably had a deal. Michael has taken for his "alleged sleep" an extremely high risk. Don't you think?

MJ hired someone who should have known what to do and what instructions to be followed . it was murray who failed to follow what in the book . there was no "fruit" of getting propofol beside "sleep" , mj was not reinjecting himself over and over againt to feel high . It is very absurd to even believe that he was presented with a more safe way to sleep and insisted on using propofol , you gotta understand there is really no advantage in taking it .

There may well be other reasons for the use of Propfol. Why not? Why wants anyone to be knocked out? This is not sleep. And after some time of use, propofol can be quite addictive.
Was Michael really so ignorant?

 

[williamorange1]

there is nothing illegal about using propofol . it is not a controled substance . if mj was rescued that day , he would not have been held responsible .

 

[williamorange1]

Murray is a professional , he is certainly more qualified than a nurse .

 

[williamorange1]

all you are obligated to do by law is to follow the precautions on the propofol bottles . In 1997 , there were two doctors and a mini clinic , that's why there was no complications that caused mj to feel uncertain about this drug . murray is a professional , and mj thought he knew what he was doing and that's why murray was part of the concerts .

as for addiction , mj used it 12 years ago , he knew it was not an addictive drug, and since he suffered from insomnia which did not stop after 1997 , he suffered from it till last day of his life, but unlike those years between 1997 and 2009 , mj was not on tour, he was not rehearsing, he had no obligations that require him to sleep 8 hours a day . he felt this is the "cure" again .

you don't get addicted to propofol unless you re inject yourself manay many times a day, some more than one hundred times a day . mj clearly was not using it that way .

 

[williamorange1]

you better believe that no doctor from 1997 is going to face any charges because they did go with the instructions provided by the propofol manufacturer, the prosecution has no case whatever against these people. murray's problem is he did not do what he should have done, he did not go by what the manufacturer said .

as for propofol not being used to treat insomnia, midazolam is not used to treat insomnia but still Murray claimed he was using it on mj. Lorazepam through an IV is for sure as dangerous as propofol and murray admitted he was using it to treat insomnia .

MJ did not want to get high, mj simply wanted to sleep. if an aspirin made mj sleep he would have taken it and never got propofol , but someone told him propofol is your cure and he tried it, it worked perfectly, never had any complications , asked for it again after 12 years , this time the doctor was too cheap to bring appropriate medical equipments , his lawyer himself said "murray did not give jackson anything that should have caused his death", " Murray left the room because he thought that since Jackson never faced any complications before , it was safe to do so" these are murray's lawyer words .

those words tell you even the doctor at some point did not consider propofol as dangerous as it turned out to be.

 

[AlvaMJJ]

there is nothing illegal about using propofol . it is not a controled substance . if mj was rescued that day , he would not have been held responsible .

It's not allowed to administer propofol in a domestic ambience.
In addition, Murray hadn't the authorization to administer propofol in California. He had to obtain the drug illegally.

 

[AlvaMJJ]

Murray is a professional , he is certainly more qualified than a nurse .

Not necessarily. A nurse may be better qualified.
But anesthetists have their purpose.

 

[williamorange1]

you want to blame mj for his death blame him , it is not gonna change anything , but to me calling Lee out of all people who he met over the years when he was visiting klien, when murray was with him, calling the woman who told him it was dangerous out of all people tells me for fact mj only realised that her warnings were real and he rethought about this propofol issue , but murray convinced him it had nothing to do with propofol .

again , you will hear during the trial how murray inject mj with lethal amounts of lorazepam before his death to make it look like an overdose , how he left an empty pill bottle in mj's bathroom , how he hid all the propofol evidnece and how there is no way to know whether jackson was alive or dead when murray found him, and how mj's life was ended .

 

[williamorange1]

It's not allowed to administer propofol in a domestic ambience.
In addition, Murray hadn't the authorization to administer propofol in California. He had to obtain the drug illegally.

no it is not illegal at all , and 150.000$ a month is not an absurd number at all . go ask any Arab billionaire who had a doctor with him and he would not find this number huge at all . even after mj's death , a doctor who "lives" with the rich said the amount was "reasonable" she was on CNN .

again , propofol is not a controlled substance , all you are bound to do by law is to follow the instructions , the instructions require that a professional do the job plus medical equipment available .. that's it . murray is a professional (but a bad one) and he did not have a medical equipmen, that's why he will be convicted, with a drug with zerro margin of error you have no oprtion but to have medical equimpents to revive the person incase something went wrong , murray ignored this simple fact and mj was dead because of this doctor ignorance .

as for murray not able to practice in California that something mj had no hand in, and probably he had no idea that was the case .

 

[Bo G]

you will hear during the trial how murray inject mj with lethal amounts of lorazepam before his death to make it look like an overdose , how he left an empty pill bottle in mj's bathroom

lol. You must be a billionaire lottery winner, with this impressive psychic ability to see the future.

 

[eStyle]

I have to disagree with you on this one. Michael WANTED to perform again, he WANTED to show his children want he said HE CAN STILL DO. And with the nights where he couldn't sleep, I get nights like that too sometimes, especially when I have these big creative ideas in my head, I want to stay up with them. So that was normal for Michael.

Michael probably never even asked for propofol. Just think about it, Michael is not here to say otherwise. All he has speaking for him now are shady people who contradict themselves. Hell no, I wouldn't believe those people. I could go on and explain more why I don't think he asked for the drug but it's too much and I don't feel like it.

Just imagine if Michael accidently died on the day he was convicted on child molestation. He would not be there to tell the truth and say otherwise. And EVERYONE, maybe even some fans, would believe he was a freak. But, Michael was alive. He told the truth. We heard his side and what he had to say. And now, the people know he was innoncent. (Although, us fans always knew he was, right?)

But now, Michael is not here. And people are saying that he asked for that deadly propofol even after so many different injections. However, Michael is not here. He cannot tell his side of the story. So now many are believing the whole propofol thing, because it is the only thing being said about him, this man who has been surrounded by lies nearly all his life.

Come on guys, I thought Michael's fans didn't fall for things like this.

Anyways, during the invincible era, Michael told his fans, "I PROMISE next time will be even better. I PROMISE."

That shows us right there that Michael wasn't planning to quit still. Plus, he doesn't break promises. He tried to make an album in 2005 but he was stopped. Then he was planning to not only make an album in 2009, but also the best tour in history, so he was killed.

And yes, Michael said he didn't want to grow very old and still perform like Jame's Brown and Fred Austere. But I remember Michael saying on his 50th Birthday, "I feel very young." Michael felt he was not too old, but young enough to do his final curtain call. To me, that's sound like the way he would want to do it anyways, with a final curtian call, not saying "im through. that's it" and retire. Michael was a professionalist.

Nice said!

 

[williamorange1]

lol. You must be a billionaire lottery winner, with this impressive psychic ability to see the future.

Murray's knew lorazepam contributed to mj's death . all his statemenets and actions that day say he wanted the detectives to focus on lorazepam , and indeed lorazepam out of all the benzo was the contributing factor . Murray later claimed he had given mj 2 mg of lorazepma 5 hours before propofol, and he gave him 2.mg of midazolam 3 hours before propofol . so we have two benzos with the same amount according to murray and the one contributing to death was at leats five hours before administring propofol. if indeed murray's version of event was true, midazolam not lorazepam should have been the contributing factor .

you gotta read carefully , lorazepam was murray's main focus on june 25th when he talked to police and medical staff , yet he tried to shift the attention from it two days later, and eventually in the cause of death, the coroner determined that lorazepam contributed to the death .

How come murray knew that the drug he gave mj 5 hours before his death contributed to his death not midazolam ? how come they found lorazepam and diazepam bottles beside mj prescribed by Dr.Murray .

but they found an empty pill bottle of lorazepam in his bathroom? how come midazolam, propofol....etc everything was first hidden in a closet and unless murray told them where to find the drug bottles no one might have discovered them .

the scene was created to give the impression that mj took the loraepam pills on his own and overdosed himself . Murray left a lorazepam bottle not a pill one beside mj's bed ,and admitted he gave him lorazepam to hel him sleep. but he left an empty PILL bottle in the bathroom to suggest mj took it himself .

murray told the paramedics he gave mj flumazenil to counter the lorazepam effect , the detectives indeed found flumazenil in murray's hidded bag, but that drug was not detected in mj's body , WHY ?

why since you know lorazepam may have been a factor, and you have the med you did not use it ?

 

[Bo G]

murray told the paramedics he gave mj flumazenil to counter the lorazepam effect , the detectives indeed found flumazenil in murray's hidded bag, but that drug was not detected in mj's body , WHY ?

I don't know.
Neither do you.
Thing is, I don't claim that I know things I don't. But that's just me.

 

[Melania]

Yes.This doctor has made a terrible and an unforgivable mistake. His whole life is ruined. But Michael was warned against the use of propofol by several people. Don't you wonder why all the warnings have fallen on deaf ears? Michael wasn't interested in the dangers of this drug. He only wanted to have this drug. At any price.

Furthermore, I think it's important to get an idea of the truth. I personally would like to know why I was taken away my chance to see my star on the stage. I need clarifications in order to cope with the situation.

In addition, the truth about a crime committed is always determined by the testimony of people, who can contribute something to the case. Whether these people to give truthful testimony is initially irrelevant. The truth turns out later. The overall effect of any statements made is crucial. Actually, this is the same, what we fans try to do in this forum.




Do you have accepted the death of your best friend without questioning it? I can't imagine.
Have you ever asked yourself how it could have gotten to that point.
Why did it happen? How could it come to such an absurd mistake? Weren't you angry? Haven't you asked yourself what you could have done.

I agree with you that Michael should have known better. But people do crazy things out of desperation. Michael had severe insomnia. This was the "treatment" I think his doctor(s) led him to believe was suitable. And at this point it's impossible to know precisely his prescription drug history.
I will never fully accept my best friend's death. I am angry sometimes, and I do blame her, and I do wonder what I could have done. She never confided in me about her prescription drug use, but she did confide in at least one other person. But I start to go crazy if I try to find all the answers. Michael's situation and life was even more complex, so I can't even go there. At the bottom line, I do acknowledge that it seems that he used prescription medication inappropriately at various times in his life, and should have known better.

 

[AlvaMJJ]

you want to blame mj for his death blame him , it is not gonna change anything , but to me calling Lee out of all people who he met over the years when he was visiting klien, when murray was with him, calling the woman who told him it was dangerous out of all people tells me for fact mj only realised that her warnings were real and he rethought about this propofol issue , but murray convinced him it had nothing to do with propofol .
again , you will hear during the trial how murray inject mj with lethal amounts of lorazepam before his death to make it look like an overdose , how he left an empty pill bottle in mj's bathroom , how he hid all the propofol evidnece and how there is no way to know whether jackson was alive or dead when murray found him, and how mj's life was ended .

Your assumptions may well come true in the courtroom.
But the fact is that Michael is partly to blame for his death. I think that he was aware of the dangers of propofol. He could have been more cautious. Then it wouldn't come this far.

...but to me calling Lee out of all people who he met over the years when he was visiting klien, when murray was with him, calling the woman who told him it was dangerous out of all people tells me for fact mj only realised that her warnings were real and he rethought about this propofol issue,...

At this point I agree with you.

...but murray convinced him it had nothing to do with propofol.

Why should Murray run the risk of administering propofol to him continued? For Michael's pain, there was no reason other than propofol.
Rather, I believe that Murray has convinced Michael to try a different method. Because propofol hasn't achieved the desired effect and is associated with pain. Therefore, the alleged reduction of the dose of propofol. With this persuasion Murray has calmed him. And the pain sentient Michael believed him. In other words. Murray has made a fool of Michael.

no it is not illegal at all , and 150.000$ a month is not an absurd number at all . go ask any Arab billionaire who had a doctor with him and he would not find this number huge at all . even after mj's death , a doctor who "lives" with the rich said the amount was "reasonable" she was on CNN.

I can say nothing on this matter. I'm not in the best circles. I just thought that Michael can buy from this sum an entire hospital.
Where is Michael's modesty? :smilerolleyes:

again , propofol is not a controlled substance , all you are bound to do by law is to follow the instructions , the instructions require that a professional do the job plus medical equipment available .. that's it . murray is a professional (but a bad one) and he did not have a medical equipmen, that's why he will be convicted, with a drug with zerro margin of error you have no oprtion but to have medical equimpents to revive the person incase something went wrong , murray ignored this simple fact and mj was dead because of this doctor ignorance.

As a result: A loophole in the law & Michael's wealth have been his ruin.

as for murray not able to practice in California that something mj had no hand in, and probably he had no idea that was the case .

Who knows? We can't prove. Maybe Michael didn't know about it. Maybe he knew about it, actually.

 

[Ramona122003]

AlvaMJJ,


I think the main problem here is that you and others do not fully understand what chronic insomnia does to a person. Imagine going weeks without proper sleep. Imagine what it must feel like to be mentally and physically exhausted and still unable to sleep. When you go along time without sleep your body and mind begins to shut down. You have pain, you cannot think straight, the only thing you can feel is this desire to sleep. Anyone who reach such a state will be desperate for any relief and I think Michael had reached that tipping point.

It is like being in the desert and you are dying of dehydration. If you were given a pint of water, would you care if the water was poison. If Michael was ready to risk his life with taken this drug, this tells me that this person had reached the breaking point. He decided that he wanted to sleep and damn the consequences. Does that make him an addict, I guess in a way it does, but not in the classic sense.

If you want to look at another person who's chronic insomnia push them over the edge, look at Heath Ledger. Before his untimely death, he sever through extreme insomnia and could not find relief in any sleep medication. This need to just sleep led him to his unfortunate death. Incidents like that happens all over the world, but since insomnia is not well understood disorder, there is really no cure for it. Most people usually have to wait until it goes away on its own.

Here are some information that might be more helpful.


Although there are several different degrees of insomnia, three types of insomnia have been clearly identified: transient, acute, and chronic.

Transient insomnia lasts from days to weeks. It can be caused by another disorder, by changes in the sleep environment, by the timing of sleep, severe depression, or by stress. Its consequences - sleepiness and impaired psychomotor performance - are similar to those of sleep deprivation.

Acute insomnia is the inability to consistently sleep well for a period of between three weeks to six months.

Chronic insomnia lasts for years at a time. It can be caused by another disorder, or it can be a primary disorder. Its effects can vary according to its causes. They might include sleepiness, muscular fatigue, hallucinations, and/or mental fatigue; but people with chronic insomnia often show increased alertness. Some people that live with this disorder see things as though they were happening in slow motion, wherein moving objects seem to blend together. Can cause double vision.

 

[xo_lola_xo]

I do not for one second believe Michael was an addict to it or anything else.

I believe that he was desperate for a solution to his insomnia and was a bit stubborn about it and Murray was careless enough to just give him it without thinking of his responsiblities. I believe it was murder. 100%.

You cannot blame this on Michael or get angry at him. Even if he was addicted to something, it doesn't mean the doctor should just give him it! Especially Propfol which you aren't allowed to give outside an hospital and without monitors.