What AEG exec told my friend about Michael

[gerryevans]

(not directed to anyone in particular, ok?) The POINT is not whether or not Michael wanted to do ten shows, or fifty, or how happy he was to be back on stage, or whether he felt pressured, and so on. The POINT is, did or did not AEG think he COULD do all those shows? It was coming down to the "do or die" moment, He was beginning to pack to go to London. If, for whatever reasons, he canceled after a few shows, the losses would have been HUGE. Compared to what has been gained, now. I'm not saying AEG DID anything to Michael. Just exploring a theme, which is what we do here.

How would they know if he was capable? They were paying his DOCTOR, who I'm sure reported back to them.

In 2008, AEG grossed $1 billion dollars. AEG is a subsidiary of the Anschutz Company, which grosses multi billions.

If Michael was not capable and they had to cancel the concerts, the loss to the AEG division alone would have been basically the production cost of MJ's show. The loss would be what they expended. They would not count potential profits.

That production cost on the high end was $50 million. A fifty million dollar loss for AEG would represent 5% of their revenue. To its parent company, it would have been less than 1%.

The company would have wrote off the loss as all major multi billion dollar corporations do.

ETA: Or they could have sued him like everybody else.

 

[gerryevans]

Oh dear.

Michael should have cancelled and ran away...

I agree. But not because of the character of any of those people involved with the concerts. But because I realize now that getting back on stage for any number of shows for Michael triggered an insufferable insomnia for him and a dangerous remedy.

By the way, those talking about how in to it he was in the film - that footage was taken from rehearsals in mid-late june - weeks & days near to the 25th. There is even footage from the day before.

That bears out what the OP said. He really got into the shows in their final stages and was like a "kid in a candy store".

 

[Autumn II]

In 2008, AEG grossed $1 billion dollars. AEG is a subsidiary of the Anschutz Company, which grosses multi billions.

If Michael was not capable and they had to cancel the concerts, the loss to the AEG division alone would have been basically the production cost of MJ's show. The loss would be what they expended. They would not count potential profits.

Plus all those ticket refunds. (Uhm, we know all ABOUT Anschutz. There's a thread on that.)

That production cost on the high end was $50 million. A fifty million dollar loss for AEG would represent 5% of their revenue. To its parent company, it would have been less than 1%.

Good job! That's a lot of research on the AEG corporation.

The company would have wrote off the loss as all major multi billion dollar corporations do.

We don't know what other losses or gains AEG was experiencing, of course. Clearly they thought they could make money from Michael, one way or another, or they would not have signed him?

But because I realize now that getting back on stage for any number of shows for Michael triggered an insufferable insomnia for him and a dangerous remedy.

That goes along with the "It was Michael's fault" theory -- the "he begged for Propofol" story. I, for one, am not buying it, and Michael is not here to tell us why he would do such a dangerous thing and risk his future in raising his children. At first it was said that he had suffered a Demerol overdose. But that was not the case. Then "Nurse Lee" was all over the place with the Propofol story. It's the perfect murder weapon, or could have been if someone had not messed up or panicked? Vanishes quickly, and if no one thought to look for it, it might not have been discovered. But, then there must have been some sort of panic and the "he begged for Propofol" stories came out.

He really got into the shows in their final stages and was like a "kid in a candy store".

I've seen TII. It's true, he looked very happy in some scenes. It's also true that there was concern that he was not attending rehearsals, or coming later and later. There was concern about his weight, and Ortega was cutting up his food for him (and Michael was an ADULT! Very strange. . . .) And so on. This is NOT simple.

 

[gerryevans]

Plus all those ticket refunds. (Uhm, we know all ABOUT Anschutz. There's a thread on that.)

They would be returning money they received. That would not be an additional loss.

Good job! That's a lot of research on the AEG corporation.

Nope, just two google clicks. But I thought the discussion was worth looking deeper into the finances of a company which is being suggested to have devised the ultimate retribution against Michael.

We don't know what other losses or gains AEG was experiencing, of course. Clearly they thought they could make money from Michael, one way or another, or they would not have signed him?

True, we don't know the extent of other losses or gains. But those google cliicks sure do indicate a loss of $50 million is not going to bankrupt AEG. Perhaps that's a wrong assumption on my part, but then there could be wrong assumptions on the other side of this argument as well.

That goes along with the "It was Michael's fault" theory -- the "he begged for Propofol" story. I, for one, am not buying it, and Michael is not here to tell us why he would do such a dangerous thing and risk his future in raising his children. At first it was said that he had suffered a Demerol overdose. But that was not the case. Then "Nurse Lee" was all over the place with the Propofol story. It's the perfect murder weapon, or could have been if someone had not messed up or panicked? Vanishes quickly, and if no one thought to look for it, it might not have been discovered. But, then there must have been some sort of panic and the "he begged for Propofol" stories came out.

That's not my theory. I don't fault Michael.

I've seen TII. It's true, he looked very happy in some scenes. It's also true that there was concern that he was not attending rehearsals, or coming later and later. There was concern about his weight, and Ortega was cutting up his food for him (and Michael was an ADULT! Very strange. . . .) And so on. This is NOT simple.

I agree it is not simple. Michael is gone, and he shouldn't be. That does not mean there was some complex elaborate scheme to cause his death.

 

[danae85]

In 2008, AEG grossed $1 billion dollars. AEG is a subsidiary of the Anschutz Company, which grosses multi billions.

If Michael was not capable and they had to cancel the concerts, the loss to the AEG division alone would have been basically the production cost of MJ's show. The loss would be what they expended. They would not count potential profits.

That production cost on the high end was $50 million. A fifty million dollar loss for AEG would represent 5% of their revenue. To its parent company, it would have been less than 1%.

The company would have wrote off the loss as all major multi billion dollar corporations do.

ETA: Or they could have sued him like everybody else.

I just want to point out that a company has many different divisions, ran by many different people, all of whom are expected to deliver certain results. It does not have to be the entire company that decided the loss was too big - it could have been the one person putting the idea of Michael concerts on the table, convincing everyone, putting his/her career on the line, and his/her team's, and the fear that the risk will not pay off. In an economic recession no less. I don't want to refute you, and, again, I am NOT saying AEG killed him. Not at all. Honestly. This just popped in my head when i read your post.

What bothers me the most is that Kenny kept saying that Michael WANTED to do these concerts, over and over and over again. I understand he cannot come forth and say he didn't want to do them, but I believed Kenny, I have been thinking all this time that if Kenny says so it must be the truth. I know now for a fact that Michael did not want to do these concerts. You guys remember the story Kenny said about Michael calling him and being super excited (before the project went into motion) and said "this is IT Kenny!"? That conversation could very well have never happened.

What also upsets me is that yeah, AEG most probably had nothing to do with MJ's death, but their gloating over how much money they made is flat out disturbing. The guy had just met my friend and was telling him how much money they made out of Mike's death. I mean for crying out loud. Can you imagine the party they must have thrown over at Sony? This is disturbing on every possible level.

 

[Moddie777]

AEG aren't the only ones "gloating", unfortunately someone elese are walKing around gloating and bragging about the Investigation into Michael's Murder "isn't going anywhere". And no, they were not complaining. They were clearly bragging, and this person was suppose to care about Michael so much and have his best interest at heart.

Thank you for sharing this info with us. I believe you too and none of the information you gave, surprises me at all.

These people are so cocky and arrogant about what was done to Michael Jackson, it is utterly criminal( imo).

 

[gerryevans]

I just want to point out that a company has many different divisions, ran by many different people, all of whom are expected to deliver certain results. It does not have to be the entire company that decided the loss was too big - it could have been the one person putting the idea of Michael concerts on the table, convincing everyone, putting his/her career on the line, and his/her team's, and the fear that the risk will not pay off. In an economic recession no less.

I agree. The cancellation of this concert would have definitely put some execs in that division in a bad light. As Randy Philllips is the head of it, it could have even resulted in a demotion for him or even him getting the boot. I just think the extreme measure being suggested that would be taken to help save the job is highly unlikely.

Pop stars cancel shows all the time for one reason or another. It comes with the territory. The purse might not have been as big a loss as for a Michael, but the artists are a promoter's bread and butter. They don't end their lives. They'll want to secure them for their next job.

Do I think Randy Phillips is an a******? Yes.
Do I think he pressured Michael and made his life miserable during the TII process? Yes.
But I think the extent of his bad behavior was along those lines.

I could be terribly niave here. I just don't think Randy Phillips or anyone at AEG would be that desperate about a single set of shows, albeit the King's. They have a lot happening in their company. And Randy's been in the business for about 30 years. The attitude is generally, there'll be another show to make up for it.

Eliminating the talent to eliminate the loss is not the solution employed in large entertainment companies.

 

[MIST]

Why should AEG pay for the lightman and kill Michael just before it came?
I guess lightman was an expensive thing.
They didn´t even get pictures with Michael and lightman for a movie.

If Michael didn´t want to do any concerts at all he just could say no.
He has done it before.

 

[jayde123]

whether Mj wanted to do the shows or not at the point he died, he had NO choice. if he pulled out of these shows him financially would be tied up in law suits if he didnt have a really good excuse.

its either this conspiracy to kill him for whatever reason we still cant figure out. the catalogue, his money, or something else we have no idea of etc. but i dont think that catalogue is/was going anywhere.

or murray really just fucked up that morning and no conspiracy at all.

all of this really makes me so mad!! i really wish the LAPD would make an announcement and tell us that they are atleast still looking into it.

 

[dirtydiana27]

Am I going mad or the signatures at the end don't match?? The one on the right could be Mike's, but the other one, no, no way.

Thanks for sharing, danae! I don't post much either, but I'm going to research this info a little more...

You are not going mad Popescu--a lot of us have questions about the authenticy of this document--those signatures do not match!

And, danae--thank you for posting and I truly hope that you will ignore the comments from those posters who feel justified in attacking anyone who doesn't agree with THEIR theories of what happened to Michael. I don't claim to know what happened to him either, but I do know that it is extremely important to explore everyone and everything connected to Michael. The purpose of the IU is to set forth theories and speculation for EVERYONE to challenge or confirm in an effort to make sure that IF there are people out there who are responsible for Michael's MURDER, they are brought to justice. We all want this--and you have presented just another piece of a complex puzzle for us to consider. It is very sad that there are some who feel the need to be rude---most of us agree that this is not acceptable!!! Thank you for your bravery in coming forward--I believe you.

 

[Maria MJ]

I hope and pray that more people "sang" like this AEG exec to your friend.
The unbearable pressure began right after that cursed deal with Colony Capital.
NL was supposedly saved from auction but at what price?Nailing down Mike to his last breath to get their money back!!
Even little Paris noticed and brought it up:"They worked my daddy so hard they killed him!!!"

 

[Moddie777]

You are not going mad Popescu--a lot of us have questions about the authenticy of this document--those signatures do not match!

And, danae--thank you for posting and I truly hope that you will ignore the comments from those posters who feel justified in attacking anyone who doesn't agree with THEIR theories of what happened to Michael. I don't claim to know what happened to him either, but I do know that it is extremely important to explore everyone and everything connected to Michael. The purpose of the IU is to set forth theories and speculation for EVERYONE to challenge or confirm in an effort to make sure that IF there are people out there who are responsible for Michael's MURDER, they are brought to justice. We all want this--and you have presented just another piece of a complex puzzle for us to consider. It is very sad that there are some who feel the need to be rude---most of us agree that this is not acceptable!!! Thank you for your bravery in coming forward--I believe you.

100% Agreed! I could not have said it any better.

 

[Beachlover]

There's a moment in This Is It at the end of "I'll be there". He's singing in an empty arena, he had an audience of about 15 or so people sitting on the floor, singing along. In that moment, Michael spread his arms out, looked to the sky and smiled. You could see the joy and happiness in his face and in his eyes. Michael wasn't playing to cameras, he wasn't playing to a crowd. To me, that was real and couldn't be faked. No amount of digital editing and manipulation could have created that moment. So I, too, believe Michael. I believe what I saw in his eyes.

Michael was MAGIC!!! This is why we loved him so much.

 

[ginvid]

I'm sure there are links in here, and Youtubes, and so on. But basically, it's felt that he lied about the amount of time Michael actually attended rehearsals. Time was passing, and it apparently wasn't easy to pry him out of his house to actually GO there. Also, about Michael's condition. He was either very well, and fit, or Ortega was having to cut up his food to see that he would eat enough (so clearly there was a concern about his weight. I've never HEARD of anyone cutting up food for a capable adult before). Ortega said both things. . that Michael was perfectly fine, AND that his weight was a concern and he was cutting up his food for him so he'd eat enough. I'm sure there is more. . .

I wanted to post a few things about what I have been reading.

Although movie magic can be done, and things can be edioted to make something look completely different, we have to be aware of the amount of time and money that goes into this. A movie like 2012 takes a long time to do those special effects. Speaking from someone who is in the art field, it is very expensive as well. Millions of dollars. The production for that movie began in Aug 2008 for a release in Nov 2009. I highly doubt AEG could take movie clips, and besides editing, use animation or trickery in a way that is being suggested in the very small time frame they had for the movie..

Also about the cutting up of the food thing. I posted this before and I wanted to reiterate it: My sister was very thin her whole life. She hated eating food. And, if she got busy with anything, forget about it. I remember my father having to physically sit her down and make her eat (which she hated). She was not physically unwell. She just didn't really like food and only ate because she needed to not because she wanted to. If she got busy, the eating was what suffered.

I only say this because people have mentioned that MJ did not like eating and thought it was a waste of time. He too probably ate because he needed to, not necessarily out of want. He may have physically been well, and in good shape. But, he very well may have been so consumed with what was going on that they felt it necessay to be like, Eat Mike. And, kind of force him to eat. I'm just saying I can understand what Kenny is saying because I have a family experince that is similar. So that doesn't NECESSARILY raise a red flag for me.

I agree where you said this is not simple. Almost any angle can be plausible. I am a sucker for conspirqacy theories. However, nomatter how much I want to believe them, I understand that the most simple answer is usually the most probale. Yet, as we just said nothing with MJ is simple.

I think it is best to keep putting out there anything that is found. I think eventually, we will start to see more and more how things are connected. And what seemed impossible before becomes clearer.

 

[ginvid]

I hope and pray that more people "sang" like this AEG exec to your friend.
The unbearable pressure began right after that cursed deal with Colony Capital.
NL was supposedly saved from auction but at what price?Nailing down Mike to his last breath to get their money back!!
Even little Paris noticed and brought it up:"They worked my daddy so hard they killed him!!!"

I am not even sure Paris even said that. Also, Paris knew the family man MJ. She was too young or not born so is unable to remember the practicing and performing all the time MJ. What may have been a normal way for him to work when performing would seem excessive to her as that was beyond her world of knowledge.

Also, even though MJ said he never wanted to tour again, we have to acknowledge that he was probably refering to the type of touring he had done up til that time, which was going from city to city. If anyone is a traveler, you will understand that the traveling is a huge part of what makes a tour so draining. So the fact that he stayed in one location and did not have to travel, and constantly set up and tear down and transport a set, and he also had a cottage he could relax in with his children, was probaly a huge comfprt for him. Added to the fact that the shows were spread out very far. I don't know what to think about what the follower people say. I don't think they have a reason to lie. I just have too little information to even try to analyze what people were thinking. I as well hope more people come forward with "insider" information. The real truth is often a combination of perspectives or individual truths. So the more we hear, the better we are able to discern what ultimately took place.

"Murray never recieved the money from AEG, he sued them afterwards for 300.000$. The nerve."

I don't believe Murray actually sued AEG. He said he was threatening to do it. Tmz said the family said they hope he does and wins so they will havemoney to take if they sue him. Also the signatures don't appear to match either. It's funny, I noticed two copies of the contract went to Tohme and no copy went to MJ. Isn't that strange?

 

[Autumn II]

I'm going to repeat a few things here, because once again it seems necessary. This is a reminder of some themes we've been following here?

Michael had not done a concert for TWELVE years! At the time of the serious negotiations with AEG (July, 2008) he was in a wheelchair. That same summer he was photographed at Planet Hollywood looking dangerously -- DANGEROUSLY -- thin. Michael did have a history of cancellations (no I'm not going to list all of them here. Look it up if you want?) This was the same man that AEG thought was capable of doing fifty concerts? They took an incredible financial risk.

Michael was heavily in debt to AEG, and to Colony Capital, a company in which Tohme had a partnership. It's been said that Colony Capital "saved" Neverland. They did not "refinance" it. They BOUGHT an interest in it and they co-owned it. Could Michael have bought back their interest in it? Don't know. AEG had paid the settlement to the lawsuit of Prince Abdulla. Millions. Michael was expected to pay it back. Michael did not go to London to go to court. His "doctors" (who?) said he was too sick. Sick with WHAT? It was never explained. This was the SAME man AEG thought would do fifty concerts?

Here are some key questions:

1. Was Michael or was he not in good enough physical condition to sustain the effort of all those concerts? If he was not, then he literally was worth more dead than alive. It bears thinking about. . . . at least. (It doesn't matter whose relatives are thin or not thin.) It's well-known that Michael always tried to gain weight before concerts because he lost so much weight when performing. There was much concern, from some, that he was entirely too thin to sustain the effort. Some fans were literally afraid that he would die. Then he died. He did not die from "being thin." It's possible that he was killed because he was going to cancel, or was not in good enough physical shape to earn back AEG's investment by doing enough concerts. That is one theory. . . . .

2. AEG was paying Michael's rent, staff, and living expenses. And would have paid his doctor (Murray). So the question is, had Michael lost control of his own staff, i.e could he hire/fire, and simply say "no?" Maybe not.

3. Tohme has conncections with both Colony Capital and AEG. "Doctor" Tohme had basically taken over Michael's LIFE. He was president of MJJProductions. He said he "built a wall around Michael to keep people out." He arranged an auction of Michael's precious belongings. It was a sale that, as it turns out, Michael did NOT want. Michael SAID he was afraid of Tohme. Tohme presented himself as a medical doctor, but no proof of that has been found. He presented himself as "Ambassador-at-large" for the country of Senegal. It was a LIE. He is worth investigating, and his connections to AEG and Colony Capital.

4. How serious was Michael's cash-flow problem? Did he feel that he could back out of the concerts if he was not physically prepared/well enough? Was he boxed in financially? There is a lot of evidence that suggests this was the case.

These are some of the questions we are exploring here, and we have been doing so for a long time.

Thank you.

Vic

 

[Mechi]

Also, even though MJ said he never wanted to tour again, we have to acknowledge that he was probably refering to the type of touring he had done up til that time, which was going from city to city. If anyone is a traveler, you will understand that the traveling is a huge part of what makes a tour so draining. So the fact that he stayed in one location and did not have to travel, and constantly set up and tear down and transport a set, and he also had a cottage he could relax in with his children, was probaly a huge comfprt for him.

could be true, could also be true he was referring to performing in general. Honestly he didn't look too well in 2001 performing in New York. Also he collapsed there before in I think 1995 when he wanted to do only the OneNightOnly Special... was it for HBO? one concert in one city, home in the US... no travelling at all.

Added to the fact that the shows were spread out very far. I don't know what to think about what the follower people say.

I personlly wouldn't call a row of 8 concerts in 16 days spread wide... an those were not the first... those were kind of the later concerts in Febuary/March I think. So if Michael was to lose even more weight through doing concerts, to put such a marathon at the end... (and nobody tell me about the two months or more break in between for gaining weight. Try to make someone eat as long as the pressure is there, and then come back please) someone really cared about him? I think Paris is a pretty smart young lady.

The real truth is often a combination of perspectives or individual truths. So the more we hear, the better we are able to discern what ultimately took place.

very true :yes:. Just that we're not always told the complete picture therfore an effort of finding what's not supposed to be found easiyl can be helpfull unless we all want to be 'victims' of mainstream media?

 

[ginvid]

I'm going to repeat a few things here, because once again it seems necessary. This is a reminder of some themes we've been following here?

Michael had not done a concert for TWELVE years! At the time of the serious negotiations with AEG (July, 2008) he was in a wheelchair. That same summer he was photographed at Planet Hollywood looking dangerously -- DANGEROUSLY -- thin. Michael did have a history of cancellations (no I'm not going to list all of them here. Look it up if you want?) This was the same man that AEG thought was capable of doing fifty concerts? They took an incredible financial risk.

Michael was heavily in debt to AEG, and to Colony Capital, a company in which Tohme had a partnership. It's been said that Colony Capital "saved" Neverland. They did not "refinance" it. They BOUGHT an interest in it and they co-owned it. Could Michael have bought back their interest in it? Don't know. AEG had paid the settlement to the lawsuit of Prince Abdulla. Millions. Michael was expected to pay it back. Michael did not go to London to go to court. His "doctors" (who?) said he was too sick. Sick with WHAT? It was never explained. This was the SAME man AEG thought would do fifty concerts?

Here are some key questions:

1. Was Michael or was he not in good enough physical condition to sustain the effort of all those concerts? If he was not, then he literally was worth more dead than alive. It bears thinking about. . . . at least. (It doesn't matter whose relatives are thin or not thin.) It's well-known that Michael always tried to gain weight before concerts because he lost so much weight when performing. There was much concern, from some, that he was entirely too thin to sustain the effort. Some fans were literally afraid that he would die. Then he died. He did not die from "being thin." It's possible that he was killed because he was going to cancel, or was not in good enough physical shape to earn back AEG's investment by doing enough concerts. That is one theory. . . . .

2. AEG was paying Michael's rent, staff, and living expenses. And would have paid his doctor (Murray). So the question is, had Michael lost control of his own staff, i.e could he hire/fire, and simply say "no?" Maybe not.

3. Tohme has conncections with both Colony Capital and AEG. "Doctor" Tohme had basically taken over Michael's LIFE. He was president of MJJProductions. He said he "built a wall around Michael to keep people out." He arranged an auction of Michael's precious belongings. It was a sale that, as it turns out, Michael did NOT want. Michael SAID he was afraid of Tohme. Tohme presented himself as a medical doctor, but no proof of that has been found. He presented himself as "Ambassador-at-large" for the country of Senegal. It was a LIE. He is worth investigating, and his connections to AEG and Colony Capital.

4. How serious was Michael's cash-flow problem? Did he feel that he could back out of the concerts if he was not physically prepared/well enough? Was he boxed in financially? There is a lot of evidence that suggests this was the case.

These are some of the questions we are exploring here, and we have been doing so for a long time.

Thank you.

Vic

You need not post anything on my account. i know very much what goes on in this thread. My account of a family member was in direct response to your words that I quoted that said you have never heard of a capable and healthy adult having to be fed food. These are one of the things that you mentioned some felt Kenny lied about. I was simply giving you an example to let you know that while rare, because of personal experience, I could not NECESSARILY conclude that Kenny was lying. It was not an attack on what you guys were saying, I was just letting you know how my thoughts were going.

No one is trying to stop you guys from coming up with theories. As I said I know what thread I am in. Also, even though I do not post here often, do not infer by your post and its tone that I am unaware of what the key questions are (if your post was directed at me). Though I do not often post, I do often read because I think it is important to be aware.

Thank you.

 

[ginvid]

could be true, could also be true he was referring to performing in general. Honestly he didn't look too well in 2001 performing in New York. Also he collapsed there before in I think 1995 when he wanted to do only the OneNightOnly Special... was it for HBO? one concert in one city, home in the US... no travelling at all.


I personlly wouldn't call a row of 8 concerts in 16 days spread wide... an those were not the first... those were kind of the later concerts in Febuary/March I think. So if Michael was to lose even more weight through doing concerts, to put such a marathon at the end... (and nobody tell me about the two months or more break in between for gaining weight. Try to make someone eat as long as the pressure is there, and then come back please) someone really cared about him? I think Paris is a pretty smart young lady.

very true :yes:. Just that we're not always told the complete picture therfore an effort of finding what's not supposed to be found easiyl can be helpfull unless we all want to be 'victims' of mainstream media?

(I'm sorry I don't know how to do the post quote thing you did, so I had to quote the whole post).

Anyway, I think maybe MJ had a love hate relationship with performing. The times when he collapsed in 1995 and in 2001, I thought he was sick? Maybe I am wrong, please don't quote me. but from what I remember the quote was taken from about him performing, I think he specifically mentioned touring, not just performing. I may be wrong, again please excuse me if I am.

Also, I didnot know that about the latter part of the tour. I wonder why they would switch to so many days in such a short period of time if they had gone through so much trouble to make the first part so comfortable for MJ. I'll have to think about that. that doesn't make sense to me. A silly move on their part. And I don't think the time in between is for gaining weight either. (I'm with you on that).

Also, from what I know, I think Paris is very smart as well. But she could only speak from her experience. I'm just saying the idea of her father as this constant worker was out of her realm of experience and she may have reacted to that.

I agree we are not told the whole story. We rarely get the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. That is why I think investigative threads are a good idea because the more ideas you have coming in, the easier it is to put things together.

Thanks!

 

[ForeverKOP]

When/Where the heck did michael say he signed up for 10 shows but woke up to do 50?! I hear that everywhere, but I've never heard it from a relaible source....the follower fans?? TBH their testimonies seem overly exaggerated, which I think was to bring more awareness into the investigation so that somebody would get charged. Reading them hurt me emotionally but later I looked at them at another point of view and they clearly sounded fictional. As stated above, editing is not a magic wand, so you can not eliminate the facial expressions and the body language displayed in the film. At some points in it Michael looked like the boss, and at some points he seemed reluctant giving out commands (ie "it's all for love"). I don't know about you, but I definitely saw a different michael in THIS IS IT, but there is always a different Michael in every era. I think micheal took 'this is it' as a duty, performing for his kids while he still had it, and sharing his message. I do however believe this project obviously drove him off the cliff. He became so obsesively involved in it that he couldn't sleep. In the mind of a genius, I can't imagine how many ideas were coming to him at once and it's understandable that he couldn't find the peace of mind he longed for. That "stress" eventually led him to murray and propofol, which ultimately took his life...but one thing that confuses me...TMZ and other sources have been saying murray was giving michael propofol for 6+ weeks...? Maybe even since the beginning of 2009, why would he need it then? As for kenny, he seems like a shady character as well. I have found many interviews in which he contradicted himself and it left me scratching my head thinking, "i thought he was a good guy...?". Some believe it was all a plot to kill him, which I disagree with. Michael was NOT worth more dead than alive. The $200 million they made off the film was nothing compared to what they could have made off of the real concerts. And if they did want to kill him, why not finish all the rehearsals first? IMO I think murray just screwed up big time. He basically turned his life around to work for MJ, he closed all his clinics and became a full time doctor to him. Talking to his girlfriend on the phone while a patient needs his attention was just careless malpractice, not a planned attack. The only thing I find comfort in is that atleast MJ was happy his last few days. His vision was finally coming alive and he was so excited, but he just took it too far. He must have been really drained the night of the 24th to ask murray for that cocktail.

JMHO

 

[Mechi]

When/Where the heck did michael say he signed up for 10 shows but woke up to do 50?! I hear that everywhere, but I've never heard it from a relaible source....the follower fans?? TBH their testimonies seem overly exaggerated, which I think was to bring more awareness into the investigation so that somebody would get charged. Reading them hurt me emotionally but later I looked at them at another point of view and they clearly sounded fictional. As stated above, editing is not a magic wand, so you can not eliminate the facial expressions and the body language displayed in the film. At some points in it Michael looked like the boss, and at some points he seemed reluctant giving out commands (ie "it's all for love"). I don't know about you, but I definitely saw a different michael in THIS IS IT, but there is always a different Michael in every era. I think micheal took 'this is it' as a duty, performing for his kids while he still had it, and sharing his message. I do however believe this project obviously drove him off the cliff. He became so obsesively involved in it that he couldn't sleep. In the mind of a genius, I can't imagine how many ideas were coming to him at once and it's understandable that he couldn't find the peace of mind he longed for. That "stress" eventually led him to murray and propofol, which ultimately took his life...but one thing that confuses me...TMZ and other sources have been saying murray was giving michael propofol for 6+ weeks...? Maybe even since the beginning of 2009, why would he need it then? As for kenny, he seems like a shady character as well. I have found many interviews in which he contradicted himself and it left me scratching my head thinking, "i thought he was a good guy...?". Some believe it was all a plot to kill him, which I disagree with. Michael was NOT worth more dead than alive. The $200 million they made off the film was nothing compared to what they could have made off of the real concerts. And if they did want to kill him, why not finish all the rehearsals first? IMO I think murray just screwed up big time. He basically turned his life around to work for MJ, he closed all his clinics and became a full time doctor to him. Talking to his girlfriend on the phone while a patient needs his attention was just careless malpractice, not a planned attack. The only thing I find comfort in is that atleast MJ was happy his last few days. His vision was finally coming alive and he was so excited, but he just took it too far. He must have been really drained the night of the 24th to ask murray for that cocktail.

JMHO

well I'm surely no follower of noone! But I'd whitness under oath in front of a court that I've seen a video snipet online that Michael said he went to bed with 10 concerts and woke up with 50 and that he can't do 50 concerts. And yes if you want my personal so subjective impression he was upset.
I have no idea from which day it was, when he said that. But as I said, I'd whitness whenever swearing on whatever, the video was there. I've watched it.
The video is gone now. Why? no idea. Lots of videos are taken off.

But yes Michael Jackson was obviously upset about the number of 50 concerts, I can whitness that... that's all I can do for you. The rest is your choice.

 

[ForeverKOP]

well I'm surely no follower of noone! But I'd whitness under oath in front of a court that I've seen a video snipet online that Michael said he went to bed with 10 concerts and woke up with 50 and that he can't do 50 concerts. And yes if you want my personal so subjective impression he was upset.
I have no idea from which day it was, when he said that. But as I said, I'd whitness whenever swearing on whatever, the video was there. I've watched it.
The video is gone now. Why? no idea. Lots of videos are taken off.

But yes Michael Jackson was obviously upset about the number of 50 concerts, I can whitness that... that's all I can do for you. The rest is your choice.

Is there anybody that happened to save this VERY IMPORTANT piece of evidence? lol...if i saw it, the first thing i would do is download it before it got removed. Do some fans still have it on their hands?

 

[Mechi]

(I'm sorry I don't know how to do the post quote thing you did, so I had to quote the whole post).

just press the quote button at the end or beginning and take the end or beginning off each time ... well sorry I'm not a native with english... maybe it explains a bit?

Anyway, I think maybe MJ had a love hate relationship with performing.

I do agree with you on that guess very much. I do think the same.

The times when he collapsed in 1995 and in 2001, I thought he was sick? Maybe I am wrong, please don't quote me. but from what I remember the quote was taken from about him performing, I think he specifically mentioned touring, not just performing. I may be wrong, again please excuse me if I am.

well yeah Michael is quoted often out of context... I just wanted to point out his last/latest experiences with performances... which were in one city, without travelling not at all as stressfull as a comeback with 50 concerts... still not at all positive health wise.

Also, from what I know, I think Paris is very smart as well. But she could only speak from her experience. I'm just saying the idea of her father as this constant worker was out of her realm of experience and she may have reacted to that.

You are certainly right. She had no experiences with her Dad preparing for performing. She is still a very young girl. But I guess we both have no doubts that they were very close. So to me if someone is up to judge the situation for Michael probably the best... to me she's one of those for sure. Even more as she has probably no idea about business and such. (You know in germany we always say that children with their innocent look at life are often closest to the truth.)

Thanks!

Nothing to thank me for really... but well I thank you for the respectfull discussion! :cheers:

 

[Mechi]

Is there anywhere that happened to save this VERY IMPORTANT piece of evidence? lol...if i saw it, the first thing i would do is download it before it got removed. Do some fans still have it on their hands?

I don't know! As I said... all I can do for you is whitness it was there. Take it or leave it.

Oh and maybe tell you, that there's a whole thread about that tape here in the IU... so I hope you'll be more successfull with finding that video one day than you are with finding the right thread for what you would like to talk about.

 

[ForeverKOP]

I don't know! As I said... all I can do for you is whitness it was there. Take it or leave it.

Oh and maybe tell you, that there's a whole thread about that tape here in the IU... so I hope you'll be more successfull with finding that video one day than you are with finding the right thread for what you would like to talk about.

If you remember it, could you describe it? I mean where did it take place, in a car, at his home, at staples? Was it long/short? Annnnnnddd, if you happen to remember, what was he wearing? lol.

 

[Mechi]

you're welcome to read here:
http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=83641

for your service! :yes:

 

[ForeverKOP]

Thanks Mechi, I'll look into that.

this is kind of off topic, but can anyone help me out with this? I'm trying to find where everyone expressed their opinions about TII, whether mj could do the 50 concerts or not...I posted it in the TII section...

Wasn't there a thread on here a couple months ago named "this is it official discussion" or something like that? I mean is there a thread on here where everyone basically gave their review of the movie and opinion of whether they thought michael could do 50 concerts or not? This section of the board is everything to do with this is it, but everything is scattered all over the place. Where's the thread where everyone shared their thoughts on the movie? If someone could post the link to it, it would be greatly appreciated! thanks!

Thanks again.

 

[Autumn II]

Is there anybody that happened to save this VERY IMPORTANT piece of evidence? lol...if i saw it, the first thing i would do is download it before it got removed. Do some fans still have it on their hands?

This has been thoroughly discussed many times here (I think someone posted a link?). The video was seen by a lot of us. Personally, I saw it and bookmarked it. It was taken down only a day or two after it went up. It then said "removed by Sony." This was before Michael died. I didn't download it. Didn't know then, how important it would be later. We've tried to find it, but so far haven't identified anyone who downloaded it.

 

[MIST]

Sometimes we think we say one thing but instead we say another thing.
We know that Michael wanted to please his fans,why would he complain for fans that he didn´t want to do concerts for them ?
Especially when he knew there was so many fans who wanted to see him.
Maybe he thought he said he only wanted to do 10 concerts in London, not 50.
Maybe he wanted to do concerts on 4 other places in the world and together it woud be 50.
I understand he was upset when he talked to the fans about the concerts but even if the video is found we don´t know for sure what he really wanted.

Michael went to more rehearsals last weeks of his life = he lost weight.
He probably had to work harder then before on rehearsals and used more energy then he could get from what he ate.
I´ve read about that he barely was eating at all,they had to feed him and such stuff but maybe he ate like he used to, but he needed to eat much more than that.
And the rehearsals was long, I read about 8-10 hours and every day.
In London he only had to work for 2 hours and not every day.
He had to work 100% those hours but we don´t know how many % he used in rehearsals.

 

[Datsymay]

I hope you're right, i do. Devils advocate would say editing has been used for 20 years to make MJ sound, well, like the media wants to portray him, it's not hard to edit something to make him look excited.

When I first saw TII, and i saw it 5 times, I left the theater with a sense of overwhelming confusion, and I was not sure what it was that I was confused about. The second time around I realized that there are such few scenes of Michael talking. Though it's full of him performing, I thought i would hear him much more, that he would be more present. I don't know if you guys understand what I'm saying, maybe it was just me.

Anyway, I really really really hope you are right.

Louis Farrakhan got a phonecall from one of Mj's lawyers saying that Mj was in distress because he didn't think he could do the show and he wanted Farrakhan to speak to him. Mj died before the minister rang him.