Coroners Report released - GRAPHIC CONTENT (Threads merged)

[Loopy]

Very, very difficult and upsetting to read. I felt as though i was intruding, as the content of this is very, very personal, but i felt drawn to reading every single word? I am really sure that Michael would not want this to be public knowledge, however, it is important for people to see that beyond any doubt Michael was relatively healthy for his age, definitely had Vitiligo, and had normal, working testes so could have definitely fathered his children. This report is very private but does clear up some of the bullshit the media and his supposed 'friends' have said over the years. I have used Propofol daily in my work and have received it as a general anaesthetic myself. I really fail to see how any court could put Michaels murder down to 'involuntary'. There really was nothing involuntary about it! I think the verdict was a disgrace and am surprised there has not been much more uproar about it by the fans and his family.

 

[xthunderx2]

I have a question. In the instances you have seen this used, were other drugs also given with it?[/QUOTE

to be honest I am not aware...I do know that AFTER I woke up I was also administered pain meds through an IV line....antibiotics...and a few other things that my physician ordered...but let me be quite clear...I have had propofol without the administration of any other drug also...the affects are different with just the propofol than if you add all the other meds with it...

 

[Billie_Jean09]

well I know for me that being given propopol on the occasion that I was...and I have to say I was given it for abdominal surgery....so you are basically in a coma state for that...those lasted 5 to 6 hours each....I dont believe that the human body can go night after night getting that type of medication...it is ment to completely knock you and and it does...it hinders your ability to breath on your own if given in large doses...I am always put on a respirator when I am given it.....

A friend of mine said only yesterday that she also has been given this for surgery, and also afterwards she needed oxygen to help her upon waking.:doh:
Clearly support equipment is necessary when using a drug as potent as this.
It does it's job when used in the correct setting for the right reasons ( ie surgery in hospital) but should clearly never be used as an aid to sleep.:no:

 

[Autumn II]

Very, very difficult and upsetting to read. I felt as though i was intruding, as the content of this is very, very personal, but i felt drawn to reading every single word? I am really sure that Michael would not want this to be public knowledge, however, it is important for people to see that beyond any doubt Michael was relatively healthy for his age, definitely had Vitiligo, and had normal, working testes so could have definitely fathered his children. This report is very private but does clear up some of the bullshit the media and his supposed 'friends' have said over the years. I have used Propofol daily in my work and have received it as a general anaesthetic myself. I really fail to see how any court could put Michaels murder down to 'involuntary'. There really was nothing involuntary about it! I think the verdict was a disgrace and am surprised there has not been much more uproar about it by the fans and his family.

Co-sign. There are things the report does NOT prove. It does not prove long-term propofol use. That drug disapates quickly from the body, but I think there would be traces in hair-samples or tissues. Results of hair-sample tests were not given.

The extent of the breathing impairment was not given. There WAS some impairment, though, and that information WAS given. Some people use oxygen therapy for health reasons, which could be an alternative reason for the oxygen tanks Kai Chase and others said they saw in the house. I.Vs could be used for rehydration after exercise (rehearsals).

I some respects, the report was incomplete. Long-term presence of medications was not given. Extent of breathing impairment was not given, but strongly suggested. Cause of lung damage was not given. And so on. We are still left with many questions. . . .

 

[xthunderx2]

A friend of mine said only yesterday that she also has been given this for surgery, and also afterwards she needed oxygen to help her upon waking.:doh:
Clearly support equipment is necessary when using a drug as potent as this.
It does it's job but should clearly never be used as an aid to sleep.:no:

this is correct upon waking up you feel short of breath...and you need that extra help of the oxygen to be able to sustain your sat level.

 

[*Jacy*]

okay that´s not easy to handle Ithink, feeling not good about the autopsy report
there are very much details, to much I think.....sometimes I´ve got the feeling
all MJ fans over the world are not allowed to be happy, we´re just got pain everytime through years and years.....hmm^^ it´s not easy, I´m not already finished but I´ll fight myself through the pages.....

 

[ensleyave]

There are many unanswered questions.
I look through my hospital itemization and this anesthesia was used.

I too had this anesthesia when I had surgery and could not breath when I was coming to. I had to receive oxygen also.

 

[bouee]

Now a few questions (last ones for now, I need a break from this right now..)

If I am correct, according to the search warrants, Murray said he gave MJ on 25th :

1 30 am Diazepam 10 mg

2 00 am Lorazepam 2 mg IV

3 00 am Midozalam 2mg IV

5 00 am Lorazepam 2mg IV

7h30 Midazolam 2 mg

10h40 Propofol 25 mg

All the above were found in MJ's system, and they also found Nordiazepam, which is not in the list of medication Murray admittedly gave.

On page 31 of the autopsy report, last sentence, the anesthesiologist consultant states : "Lorazepam, a long acting benzodiazepine, is present at a pharmacologically significant level and would have accentuated the respiratory and cardiovascular depression from propofol".

He mixed Lozarepam and Propofol, when he shouldn't have, according the anesthesiologist consultant. That part shocked me when I read the report, it just adds to the "mistakes" made that night.

So my questions are :

Do you think that the dosage of the drugs and the timing Murray gave is consistent with the tox results ? I am talking about the drugs he gave before the propofol. Is it possible to know that ?

Was his lung condition relevant in respiratory depression ? I don't think so, since it's not stated anywhere as related to the cause of death, and not mentionned by the anaesthesiolgist. But I just wanted to clear this up.

 

[lisedea]

The report did not state this was the case anywhere. They reported every other aspect of this poor mans body but they did not mention that. I would think they would have. I don't want to speculate in this section and I am not a physician so I certainly don't want to go around saying the man had some health issue that he didn't have.

I can positively say there were issues with his lungs but I can not positively say that he had Lupus based on that alone. There are other conditions which could cause that.

Michael had discoid lupus.It was annonced in 1993 after his interview with Oprah and also confirmed by Dr Klein on Larry King Live after his death. Discoid lupus is non-life threatening as opposed to systemic lupus.

 

[bouee]

Co-sign. There are things the report does NOT prove. It does not prove long-term propofol use. That drug disapates quickly from the body, but I think there would be traces in hair-samples or tissues. Results of hair-sample tests were not given.

The extent of the breathing impairment was not given. There WAS some impairment, though, and that information WAS given. Some people use oxygen therapy for health reasons, which could be an alternative reason for the oxygen tanks Kai Chase and others said they saw in the house. I.Vs could be used for rehydration after exercise (rehearsals).

I some respects, the report was incomplete. Long-term presence of medications was not given. Extent of breathing impairment was not given, but strongly suggested. Cause of lung damage was not given. And so on. We are still left with many questions. . . .

I agree with you on this. The autopsy report is incomplete, and we have very little information about what happened on june 25th. Basically the search warrants, this autopsy report.
We have witnesses that some us believe and others don't or question.

Hopefully we will have more info on april 5th, and hopefully there will be a trial where we will have the full results of the investigations, and see what Murray's lawyers strategy will be. Then we might get a totally different picture.

By his own admission Murray is guilty of IM ( he would deserve a lot more IMO) , at this stage, I really don't see how he can get out of this one, on a legal point of view.

Now some posters have helped find out his lies and his contradictions, I really want to hear his explanations about this some day. At this stage, I have no idea where it will take us, when / he gives answers about those lies and contradictions.

Still some posters are able to help understand the info we have, and draw conclusions. That's really important , we have to keep an open mind on everything, and try to get as much info as possible, and try to understand all aspects of the info we have.

Sorry for the off topic..

 

[daisy]

On page 31 of the autopsy report, last sentence, the anesthesiologist consultant states : "Lorazepam, a long acting benzodiazepine, is present at a pharmacologically significant level and would have accentuated the respiratory and cardiovascular depression from propofol".

He mixed Lozarepam and Propofol, when he shouldn't have, according the anesthesiologist consultant. That part shocked me when I read the report, it just adds to the "mistakes" made that night.

So my questions are :

Do you think that the dosage of the drugs and the timing Murray gave is consistent with the tox results ? I am talking about the drugs he gave before the propofol. Is it possible to know that ?

Was his lung condition relevant in respiratory depression ? I don't think so, since it's not stated anywhere as related to the cause of death, and not mentionned by the anaesthesiolgist. But I just wanted to clear this up.

I was more or less interested in the same issue yesterday.
In my opinion Murray would have to be totally stupid and irresponsible to inject Michael with propofol after these benzos. Even if ts says "dose of propofol used for general anasthesia" - well, ok but AFTER Lozarepam? Such dose?

At what point "stupid" and "involountary" comes to something more?

 

[Beachlover]

If I am correct, according to the search warrants, Murray said he gave MJ on 25th :

1 30 am Diazepam 10 mg

2 00 am Lorazepam 2 mg IV

3 00 am Midozalam 2mg IV

5 00 am Lorazepam 2mg IV

7h30 Midazolam 2 mg

10h40 Propofol 25 mg

All the above were found in MJ's system, and they also found Nordiazepam, which is not in the list of medication Murray admittedly gave.

On page 31 of the autopsy report, last sentence, the anesthesiologist consultant states : "Lorazepam, a long acting benzodiazepine, is present at a pharmacologically significant level and would have accentuated the respiratory and cardiovascular depression from propofol".

He mixed Lozarepam and Propofol, when he shouldn't have, according the anesthesiologist consultant. That part shocked me when I read the report, it just adds to the "mistakes" made that night.

So my questions are :

Do you think that the dosage of the drugs and the timing Murray gave is consistent with the tox results ? I am talking about the drugs he gave before the propofol. Is it possible to know that ?

Was his lung condition relevant in respiratory depression ? I don't think so, since it's not stated anywhere as related to the cause of death, and not mentionned by the anaesthesiolgist. But I just wanted to clear this up.

Nordiazepam is what DIAZEPAM (which he gave) turns into.

You made an assumption saying that Murray should not have mixed the Propofol and the Lorazepam. What the report says is that they do the same thing. Therefore, you need to give 'less' of them to achieve the end result.

It is possible to know about the dosages and the drugs and that is what we are hoping to figure out here. How much did he lie and what can be proven.

Also, the times are different in some places.

 

[Beachlover]

Michael had discoid lupus.It was annonced in 1993 after his interview with Oprah and also confirmed by Dr Klein on Larry King Live after his death. Discoid lupus is non-life threatening as opposed to systemic lupus.

For the sake of keeping it factual, this is not proven in the autopsy.

 

[Joyce]

Besides time in prison, I think it would be fitting to connect Conrad Murray to an IV and give him all the meds that he gave our Michael in the same sequence and at the same time. He might not like that!! He might die....geeee.....breaks my heart.

 

[bouee]

Nordiazepam is what DIAZEPAM (which he gave) turns into.

thks for the info. So everything that was found in MJ's system was admittedly given by Murray, there was nothing else.

You made an assumption saying that Murray should not have mixed the Propofol and the Lorazepam. What the report says is that they do the same thing. Therefore, you need to give 'less' of them to achieve the end result.

OK, that's a way of understanding it, I get your point. My understanding of this is that Lorazepam made the side effects of propofol (respiratory depression) worse. Which would be why they added the benzodiazepine effects as related to cause of death. Mixing those drugs made it worse.

It is possible to know about the dosages and the drugs and that is what we are hoping to figure out here. How much did he lie and what can be proven.

thks, I am personnally not able to do that.

Also, the times are different in some places.

I took my info from one of the search warrants.

 

[Beachlover]

Besides time in prison, I think it would be fitting to connect Conrad Murray to an IV and give him all the meds that he gave our Michael in the same sequence and at the same time. He might not like that!! He might die....geeee.....breaks my heart.

Yes, but this is a man twice the weight of Michael and I thought someone said over 6' tall. Not a fair comparison.

 

[Beachlover]

thks for the info. So everything that was found in MJ's system was admittedly given by Murray, there was nothing else.

I took my info from one of the search warrants.

Yes, but we are now looking into figuring out if everything Murray said he gave the days prior were given too. And the search warrants and the autopsy and the lawyers have different times. I have yet to figure out why he would give this drug even at 10 or 11 or 12. They all seem too late in the day for me to understand.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

ephedrine. is given due to high blood pressure caused by anesthetic. thats a logical reason for it being given.
re the lupus i dont believe it can be detected in an autopsy. there is no singular sign when u look and say yes they had lupus. there is no actual test so to speak for it. the diagnose comes from suffering many aliments that are asscioted with the diseae and u are diagnosed that way one of the meds mj was taking (cant remember the name of it. it was listed in the report) is a treatment for lupus. unless anything else was said pre 93 the first reports of lupus came from supposed GJ testimony by klien during the 93 case that was reported in the press.. mj never talked about it himself.he attended a lupus fundraiser in 03 and some lupus sites have mentioned mj as a sufferer and some other docotrs have mentioned mj. dont know if they actually treated him though

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Yes, but this is a man twice the weight of Michael and I thought someone said over 6' tall. Not a fair comparison.

better double the dose he gets then!

 

[Beachlover]

better double the dose he gets then!

LOL!!! (Still laughing at your Tooth Fairy comment in the other thread!!!)

 

[Limonali]

better double the dose he gets then!

.. or triple, if needed. just to be sure he GETS the point.

 

[jilliebean]

Co-sign. There are things the report does NOT prove. It does not prove long-term propofol use. That drug disapates quickly from the body, but I think there would be traces in hair-samples or tissues. Results of hair-sample tests were not given.

The extent of the breathing impairment was not given. There WAS some impairment, though, and that information WAS given. Some people use oxygen therapy for health reasons, which could be an alternative reason for the oxygen tanks Kai Chase and others said they saw in the house. I.Vs could be used for rehydration after exercise (rehearsals).

I some respects, the report was incomplete. Long-term presence of medications was not given. Extent of breathing impairment was not given, but strongly suggested. Cause of lung damage was not given. And so on. We are still left with many questions. . . .

Thank you for saying this, I had said the same thing to my mom. If someone wants to say that Michael used propofol and he "brought this on himself" then I say prove it. All we have is Murray and some nurse that come out of nowhere, and as we all know people make up stories aobut MJ all the time. I want some real proof that Michael knew about this, that he made the choice to use it, and that he did really know it was bad for him.

 

[lisedea]

ephedrine. is given due to high blood pressure caused by anesthetic. thats a logical reason for it being given.
re the lupus i dont believe it can be detected in an autopsy. there is no singular sign when u look and say yes they had lupus. there is no actual test so to speak for it. the diagnose comes from suffering many aliments that are asscioted with the diseae and u are diagnosed that way one of the meds mj was taking (cant remember the name of it. it was listed in the report) is a treatment for lupus. unless anything else was said pre 93 the first reports of lupus came from supposed GJ testimony by klien during the 93 case that was reported in the press.. mj never talked about it himself.he attended a lupus fundraiser in 03 and some lupus sites have mentioned mj as a sufferer and some other docotrs have mentioned mj. dont know if they actually treated him though

Thanks Elusive!

 

[Lacey]

Thank you for saying this, I had said the same thing to my mom. If someone wants to say that Michael used propofol and he "brought this on himself" then I say prove it. All we have is Murray and some nurse that come out of nowhere, and as we all know people make up stories aobut MJ all the time. I want some real proof that Michael knew about this, that he made the choice to use it, and that he did really know it was bad for him.

Even if all of the above is absolutely true, Michael did not bring this on himself. I don't care if he got on his knees and begged for propofol or offered 10 million dollars for it - he still did not bring it on himself.

Murray CHOSE to provide it. Murray CHOSE to inject it. Murray CHOSE not to have the appropriate monitoring and resusitative equipment available. Murray CHOSE to leave Michael alone. Not to even mention the substandard CPR and whatnot. Murray alone is responsible.

I could understand people saying Michael was partly responsible if he died from an overdose of narcotics or something like that which he took himself. But that is NOT the case and Murray is the only one responsible.

 

[Soundmind]

Now a few questions (last ones for now, I need a break from this right now..)

If I am correct, according to the search warrants, Murray said he gave MJ on 25th :

1 30 am Diazepam 10 mg

2 00 am Lorazepam 2 mg IV

3 00 am Midozalam 2mg IV

5 00 am Lorazepam 2mg IV

7h30 Midazolam 2 mg

10h40 Propofol 25 mg

All the above were found in MJ's system, and they also found Nordiazepam, which is not in the list of medication Murray admittedly gave.

On page 31 of the autopsy report, last sentence, the anesthesiologist consultant states : "Lorazepam, a long acting benzodiazepine, is present at a pharmacologically significant level and would have accentuated the respiratory and cardiovascular depression from propofol".

He mixed Lozarepam and Propofol, when he shouldn't have, according the anesthesiologist consultant. That part shocked me when I read the report, it just adds to the "mistakes" made that night.

So my questions are :

Do you think that the dosage of the drugs and the timing Murray gave is consistent with the tox results ? I am talking about the drugs he gave before the propofol. Is it possible to know that ?

Was his lung condition relevant in respiratory depression ? I don't think so, since it's not stated anywhere as related to the cause of death, and not mentionned by the anaesthesiolgist. But I just wanted to clear this up.

I think the most important thing now is we have proved Murray actually did not try to wean MJ off anything .


He tried to blame him for propofol by saying he only gave it after he tried everything else and actually it worked before but not that night . He did not give anything before that night and there were no attempts to stop propofol at all .

He tried to explain why he mixed all these drugs that day by blaming MJ , now we know that was a complete LIE and he has to expalin to the jurors WHY DID HE LIE ?

 

[Soundmind]

the eight propofol bottles were opened and used and there were only small amounts left in each one right ? But the amount in MJ's urine don't support a chronic use that night . There is NO WAY the propofol bottles were all used that night , no way .

Then we should wait for the amounts he purchased from applied pharamcy to see whether they fit with the whole story and if they don't then ............... Let's just wait and see .

 

[Staffordshire Bullterrier]

The report says Murray DID pull Michael on the floor to perform CPR on him?

 

[Beachlover]

the eight propofol bottles were opened and used and there were only small amounts left in each one right ? But the amount in MJ's urine don't support a chronic use that night . There is NO WAY the propofol bottles were all used that night , no way .

Then we should wait for the amounts he purchased from applied pharamcy to see whether they fit with the whole story and if they don't then ............... Let's just wait and see .

Dr Timothy G Short
Department of Adult and Trauma Anaesthesia,
Auckland City Hospital, Auckland

Fifteen years ago, initial case reports of severe toxicity associated with propofol infusion were met with skepticism as the drug had been in widespread use for over 20 years without incident. The syndrome consists of metabolic acidosis, bradycardia, lipaemia, fatty liver enlargement, rhabdomyolysis, myoglobinuria, hyperkalaemia and elevated creatinine kinase in the absence of another obvious cause. It is associated with sedation using propofol for >48 hours at rates above 5mg/kg/h. There is rapid progression to fatal cardiac and renal failure. The syndrome is caused by inhibition of conversion of fatty acids to Acyl-CoA in the mitochondria and hence failure of fatty acid oxidation and ATP production.

The reported cases have mostly been in patients being sedated for ventilation for airway infection or severe head injury, but this distribution probably represents patients with no other cause for a metabolic acidosis and undoubtedly the syndrome is under recognized. It is possible that the full blown syndrome only occurs in individuals with a genetic susceptibility.

Treatment is supportive, stop the infusion, consider haemofiltration to remove the propofol, cardiac pacing for severe bradycardia. Administration of carbohydrate to divert energy supplies away from dependence on lipolysis may also be of benefit. To date 24 cases have been reported in children and 14 cases in adults. Strategies to reduce the incidence of the syndrome include keeping propofol infusions under 4mg/kg/hr, use of opioids, benzodiazepines and other sedatives to reduce propofol requirements and vigilance, including frequent acid-base analysis.

http://www.anzca.edu.au/events/asm/asm2007/Short.htm

Just an FYI....I'm on the job boss. Checking it all out and reading like a fool here.

 

[Beachlover]

The report says Murray DID pull Michael on the floor to perform CPR on him?

Well, if he did, he did it too late cause they have evidence of these beads that were stuck on the area of his butt and lets just say.....that would maybe even make it worse.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

the eight propofol bottles were opened and used and there were only small amounts left in each one right ? But the amount in MJ's urine don't support a chronic use that night . There is NO WAY the propofol bottles were all used that night , no way .

Then we should wait for the amounts he purchased from applied pharamcy to see whether they fit with the whole story and if they don't then ............... Let's just wait and see .

maybe its cause i didnt go to bed till 4am but arent u contridicting yourself there. u dont think murrya used the stuff on mj ie there was nothing to wean him off but then u dont think all those 8 bottles were used in one night.

He tried to blame him for propofol by saying he only gave it after he tried everything else and actually it worked before but not that night . He did not give anything before that night and there were no attempts to stop propofol at all .

because mj wouldnt have lasted 6 weeks if murray treated him the way he did on the 25th?