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Coroners Report released - GRAPHIC CONTENT (Threads merged)

Beachlover said:
No argument that it is not a good drug to take. I am a nurse and I have to have a whopping headache or be really sick to even take Tylenol. I rarely see a physician myself and believe in 'less is more' but to each his own.

However we speculate on this medication, it could have come from any number of sources and for any number of reasons. We don't know if he told Murray or anyone he was taking it. It is even found in some 'health' drinks that are for body builders. Did Michael know this was bad? I don't know and no one here does either. I don't think they are going to know the source or whether it is natural or not.
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Michael was incredibly intelligent, and he also had a lot of medical knowledge. He was an avid reader, and many of the books he bought were medical books. That is well-known. I also cannot imagine that he did not have a PDR. If for no other reason than he was a READER, and he had children, and he was well-versed in medical knowledge?

He didn't tell Murray he was taking that drug? He had NO reason to take it. I think it was given to him without his knowledge. Possibly in those "energy drinks." I think he had NO idea why he couldn't get to sleep at night, and no one here can possibly say that he did know.
 
Victoria83 said:
Michael was incredibly intelligent, and he also had a lot of medical knowledge. He was an avid reader, and many of the books he bought were medical books. That is well-known. I also cannot imagine that he did not have a PDR. If for no other reason than he was a READER, and he had children, and he was well-versed in medical knowledge?

He didn't tell Murray he was taking that drug? He had NO reason to take it. I think it was given to him without his knowledge. Possibly in those "energy drinks." I think he had NO idea why he couldn't get to sleep at night, and no one here can possibly say that he did know.
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Did the report say where they found the 14 capsules of ephedrine? His medical cabinet? Murray's bag? The kitchen cabinet? That could tell us something more significant.

The many years I've struggled with insomnia, I ended up talking to a nutritionist and she asked me to list every single little thing I'd eat during a regular day and she taught me that too much fruits and fruit juices in the same day was too much natural sugar for me and was part of my not sleeping well.

Nutrition is only part of one's chronic ailments but it's a start.

But like you said, MJ was knowledgeable in that matter and I think he knew he was taking calculated risk in whatever he knew he pas putting in his body. And since he said before "THEY're trying to poison me" I'm sure he was vigilant about that. We all saw in TII, that he was doing pretty good and his lungs didn't seem to be an issue but again we don't know and it's killing me.
 
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riviera1992 said:
Did the report say where they found the 14 capsules of ephedrine? His medical cabinet? Murray's bag? The kitchen cabinet? That could tell us something more significant.

The many years I've struggled with insomnia, I ended up talking to a nutritionist and she asked me to list every single little thing I'd eat during a regular day and she taught me that too much fruits and fruit juices in the same day was too much natural sugar for me and was part of my not sleeping well.

Nutrition is only part of one's chronic ailments but it's a start.
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I don't know. It doesn't really matter where these things were "found," because the house was not secured as a crime scene until the EVENING of the 25th, and anything could have been placed, taken out, or rearranged.

I have insomnia too, sometimes. I know not to drink coffee after about noon, or eat chocolate, or eat sweets, or whatever. Michael used to try very hard to gain weight before concerts. There is NO possibility that he was voluntarily taking this drug. NONE. One thing we must all realize is that Michael was very, very smart. He also had a lot of medical knowledge. He would NOT have knowingly taken this drug.
 
Victoria83 said:
Michael was incredibly intelligent, and he also had a lot of medical knowledge. He was an avid reader, and many of the books he bought were medical books. That is well-known. I also cannot imagine that he did not have a PDR. If for no other reason than he was a READER, and he had children, and he was well-versed in medical knowledge?

He didn't tell Murray he was taking that drug? He had NO reason to take it. I think it was given to him without his knowledge. Possibly in those "energy drinks." I think he had NO idea why he couldn't get to sleep at night, and no one here can possibly say that he did know.
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Yes but michael wasn't a medical professional, he wasn't obligated to know these things.
 
nena said:
Yes but michael wasn't a medical professional, he wasn't obligated to know these things.
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You're right, he was not "obligated." His doctor was. As a person who has not been to a doctor in over fifteen years, I, myself, am very well educated in medical things. That is reasonable, if one cares about one's own body. Michael's body was his LIFE, in a way, as a singer/dancer. I'd assume he was more than well educated about supplements and medical lore. There is NO way he would have knowingly taken this drug, at a time when he was trying to gain weight, and to get enough rest. I give him credit for his intelligence. .
 
nena said:
Yes but michael wasn't a medical professional, he wasn't obligated to know these things.
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Well maybe not obligated but I'm prrrreeeetty sure that every remotely intelligent person with chronic ailments really does a lot of research on their own conditions.
 
authopsyreport.jpg

Why was A photo let alone 4 pics taken of the Stokes litter in the helicopter.....and on the 23 July?

BTW this is a Stokes Litter:
stokes%20litter%202.jpg
 
Dangerous Incorporated said:
authopsyreport.jpg

Why was A photo let alone 4 pics taken of the Stokes litter in the helicopter.....and on the 23 July?

BTW this is a Stokes Litter:
stokes%20litter%202.jpg
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Maybe to explain post mortem 'abnormalities' on his body? When you transport a corpse a certain way it at times leaves trails at the dead body. Though from reading the report I couldn't tell what they could have meant...
 
riviera1992 said:
Well maybe not obligated but I'm prrrreeeetty sure that every remotely intelligent person with chronic ailments really does a lot of research on their own conditions.
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haha, I was just saying to the poster of Michael on my wall "If only you have my kind of mind and knowledge, and do research you won't be in Forrest Lawn now!"
Michael is only intelligent in artistic and business side. Not really in the scientific side unfortunately. There are many smart people I know that fully trust their doctors too. The story so far is that some doctor introduces propofol to him to treat isomia and told him it's save as long as there is a medical proffesional monitoring him. This doctor get Michael to try on it and Michael feels that it works and it's safe and so he asked Murray to give it to him. So how is he suppose to know what propofol is really for, what dosage is safe and what kind of conditions and equipments he needs when taking it. Btw, he trusted the doctor not to kill him.
 
When the month of April gets here, we'll get a chance to find out why LAPD felt they should go out and arrest Murray rather than have him come to court on his own to stand before the Judge, and why the DA asked to have Murray's bail changed from $25K to $300K before the Judge set it at $75K.

It doesn't seem like it's only because LAPD and the DA felt Murray may be a flight risk. It seems like it is because they feel they have a strong case, and they feel that Murray knows that they do. We'll see if that is what it is. And let's hope that they will also do something to show that Murray was trying to cover up what he did wrong.

Let's also hope that the Medical Board takes away Murray's license. Murray's lawyers can try to defend him all they want for the money, but they can't fool the Medical Board. A cardiologist is not supposed to act like an anesthesiologist, and a cardiologist should be able to perform CPR.
 
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When the month of April gets here, we'll get a chance to find out why LAPD felt they should go out and arrest Murray rather than have him come to court on his own to stand before the Judge, and why the DA asked to have Murray's bail changed from $25K to $300K before the Judge set it at $75K.
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april is just a hearing to set a date for the prelime which u can bet will be delayed as the defence are already complaining that they havnt been given discovery
 
elusive moonwalker said:
april is just a hearing to set a date for the prelime which u can bet will be delayed as the defence are already complaining that they havnt been given discovery
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here we go... the defense is gonna drag this thing out...cannot say I am surprised though.
 
yeah they usually use every extension that is available to them...to bad we just cannot get this whole thing over with....this will go on for probably a couple of years.
 
If Propofol is administered intravenously it would not be found in the toxicology of the stomach contents. It was not swallowed orally according to the autopsy, however later on in the toxicology section, it says Propofol was found in the gastric (stomach) contents. The report contradicts itself.

I have a family friend who knows pharmacology (I also asked a Dr too who agree's) and I can 100% guarantee you there is no reason to find Propofol in stomach contents. I'd stake my life on it.

Nothing you inject into a vein is going to end up in your stomach. Sorry, not possible.

Aside from that, ever hear of bioavailability? "Due to its very low oral bioavailability, Propofol in its commercially available formulations is widely recognised as not suitable for other than parenteral administration, and must generally be injected or infused intravenously." - http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20080214508

This link is valuable as it deals directly with the Patent information of Propofol. It is not a Wikipedia-type article.

This drug dissipates VERY fast from the body.
 
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Lidocaine is another thing that would have no purpose in the stomach contents.
 
Dangerous Incorporated said:
If Propofol is administered intravenously it would not be found in the toxicology of the stomach contents. It was not swallowed orally according to the autopsy, however later on in the toxicology section, it says Propofol was found in the gastric (stomach) contents. The report contradicts itself.

I have a family friend who knows pharmacology (I also asked a Dr too who agree's) and I can 100% guarantee you there is no reason to find Propofol in stomach contents. I'd stake my life on it.

Nothing you inject into a vein is going to end up in your stomach. Sorry, not possible.

Aside from that, ever hear of bioavailability? "Due to its very low oral bioavailability, Propofol in its commercially available formulations is widely recognised as not suitable for other than parenteral administration, and must generally be injected or infused intravenously." - http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20080214508

This link is valuable as it deals directly with the Patent information of Propofol. It is not a Wikipedia-type article.

This drug dissipates VERY fast from the body.
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Yes, most of what you say is true except if you read the autopsy there was blood in the stomach which was from the CPR. That is likely how it got there.
 
Beachlover said:
Yes, most of what you say is true except if you read the autopsy there was blood in the stomach which was from the CPR. That is likely how it got there.
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First that just guessing. In an autopsy it should be noted exactly how it got there. There should be no assumption when it comes to an autopsy.

Im aware that there is was a stomach haemorrhage but apart from Propofol dissipating quickly why does Propofol show up in the Femoral blood and not the Heart blood? That just doesn't add up IMO.



Also on pg 41 of autopsy it says approximately 450mls urine collected from scene by Inv.E.Fleak which to me is ALOT!!

Here is Investigator Elissa Fleak:
http://www.laweekly.com/2008-05-15/news/the-bone-collector/
 
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Dangerous Incorporated said:
First that just guessing. In an autopsy it should be noted exactly how it got there. There should be no assumption when it comes to an autopsy.

Im aware that there is was a stomach haemorrhage but apart from Propofol dissipating quickly why does Propofol show up in the Femoral blood and not the Heart blood? That just doesn't add up IMO.

Also on pg 41 of autopsy it says approximately 450mls urine collected from scene by Inv.E.Fleak which to me is ALOT!!

Here is Investigator Elissa Fleak:
http://www.laweekly.com/2008-05-15/news/the-bone-collector/
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It says transmural hemorrhage. These are professionals that wrote the report and these professionals know what the results mean. They did not write it with the Michael Jackson Fan Club in mind.

I understand that to you it doesn't add up but I still don't know what you are trying to say here.

To me, as a person who has seen such things before, and has seen people who have been given CPR and have died, and revived, these things make sense to me.

450 mls of urine is not a lot of urine. This was an adult male. Its not even 1/2 Litre. If he drank all that orange juice that was in the room, or if he received any hydration (fluid) therapy, this is more than normal. Why it was in a closed bottle is anyones guess though. The part about the external male catheter also has me scratching my head and I will assume it was put on at the hospital for numerous reasons.

We can sit here and go back and forth on the autopsy all day because everyone that reads it reads something else into it.
 
Beachlover said:
It says transmural hemorrhage. These are professionals that wrote the report and these professionals know what the results mean. They did not write it with the Michael Jackson Fan Club in mind.
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I know and understand what it says too and Im apart of the MJIFC and Im not a professional. Im also not an idiot. :smilerolleyes:
Beachlover said:
To me, as a person who has seen such things before, and has seen people who have been given CPR and have died, and revived, these things make sense to me.
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Thats great for you. But there are 1000s (yes thousands) of intillegent people who don't even need knowledge of medicine to see all the inconsistencies of this autopsy and its not just on this board or even non MJ boards. This report simply does not add up and is very sloppy for "professionals". :doh:
Beachlover said:
450 mls of urine is not a lot of urine. This was an adult male. Its not even 1/2 Litre. If he drank all that orange juice that was in the room, or if he received any hydration (fluid) therapy
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450mls is about 2 cups. There is no indication he was receiving any fluids via IV. Only the orange juice that was there. He also was having issues passing urine.
Beachlover said:
We can sit here and go back and forth on the autopsy all day because everyone that reads it reads something else into it.
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No its because whenever someone notices a fault in the autopsy or has a simple opinion, you and your partners in crime have to rear your head up and ALWAYS respond to down play the error. You know this thread isnt a Q&A for Beachlover and Co. And this has nothing to do with your supposed "knowledge" of medicine. :cheers:

The AR states that Murray was called by MJ at his house at 1AM ; the search warrant more or less corroborates that since it states that Murray gave MJ his first injections at 1.30 AM. However, fan testimonies from the This Is Not It website (as well as some other reports from MJ’s entourage) place MJ going out the Staples Centre at 1.30 AM. That means MJ would be home at around 2 in the morning (it takes around 30 minutes without circulation to go from the Staples Centre to his Carolwood home) – say Murray gets there at the same time. At the earliest, MJ’s first injections would have taken place at 2.10-15 AM when everything was set up.
It would have taken for the police a simple interrogation of MJ’s entourage to clear that up.
Speaking of the timeline, the search warrant itself shows something extremely strange. It states that Murray found MJ not breathing at 10.52 AM yet also that Murray placed three calls between 11.18 and 12.05 AM… in the midst of the chaos, seriously ? Though Murray’s lawyer said the timeline was flawed and Murray found MJ unconscious at 11.50 something, he still placed those calls AFTERWARDS. And the police didn’t find that suspicious… even malicious ?
 
Dangerous Incorporated said:
I know and understand what it says too and Im apart of the MJIFC and Im not a professional. Im also not an idiot. :smilerolleyes:

Thats great for you. But there are 1000s (yes thousands) of intillegent people who don't even need knowledge of medicine to see all the inconsistencies of this autopsy and its not just on this board or even non MJ boards. This report simply does not add up and is very sloppy for "professionals". :doh:
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Okey dokey
 
Im aware that there is was a stomach haemorrhage but apart from Propofol dissipating quickly why does Propofol show up in the Femoral blood and not the Heart blood? That just doesn't add up IMO.
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propofol was detected in femoral and heart blood .

450mls is about 2 cups. There is no indication he was receiving any fluids via IV. Only the orange juice that was there. He also was having issues passing urine.
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There was a bag of fluids there , and he was given fluids via an IV that night .

where are you getting your information from ? Everything you listed as 'odd' is twisted to be represented as such.
 
Soundmind said:
propofol was detected in femoral and heart blood .



There was a bag of fluids there , and he was given fluids via an IV that night .

where are you getting your information from ? Everything you listed as 'odd' is twisted to be represented as such.
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What a surprise.....:smilerolleyes:

There was an awful lot of urine for someone with retention.

Im reading the autopsy, dont know what are you reading?

It's full errors and contradictions which is in black and white and has nothing to do with being "twisted".

Classic contradiction and the simplest is Pg 1 stating Michael was unshaven, Pg 8 says he was unshaven. This mistake should not be in the autopsy and if they cant decided if he was shaven or not, what else is wrong?
 
Classic contradiction and the simplest is Pg 1 stating Michael was unshaven, Pg 8 says he was unshaven
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ohh really ? again what do you want to say ? the coroner was paid ? the DA was paid ? ofcourse MJ'sbody should have been declared a mess , that's the only way you would believe the autopsy was right .
 
Dangerous, check page 49. cheers.

Looking at which
lorazepam is not detected in heart blood... is it explainable :unsure:
 
Dangerous Incorporated said:
What a surprise.....:smilerolleyes:

There was an awful lot of urine for someone with retention.

Im reading the autopsy, dont know what are you reading?

It's full errors and contradictions which is in black and white and has nothing to do with being "twisted".

Classic contradiction and the simplest is Pg 1 stating Michael was unshaven, Pg 8 says he was unshaven. This mistake should not be in the autopsy and if they cant decided if he was shaven or not, what else is wrong?
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No. It is not an awful lot of urine for someone with retention. What are you thinking? Just because someone has retention doesn't mean they won't urinate the same. They just hold a lot more in their bladder than others and eventually it catches up. If you stop urinating you will blow up from fluid overload before long.

Page 4 states "A mustache and beard are absent." I don't know what your issue is here.

Of course, if you are coming here for information, I am happy to give you information. If you are coming here for the sole purpose of promoting a conspiracy of some sort, I can't help you unless the FACTS point to that.
 
Being unshaven and having a moustache and a beard are

two different things in my opinion. MJ may have been

unshaven, but he didn't have a moustache ( like Geraldo has)

or a beard.

That's what I understood. I may of course be wrong.
 
rainny said:
Being unshaven and having a moustache and a beard are

two different things in my opinion. MJ may have been

unshaven, but he didn't have a moustache ( like Geraldo has)

or a beard.

That's what I understood. I may of course be wrong.
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It says a moustache and beard are absent, meaning there are none.
 
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