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The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and Other Theories

Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

From what I remember The cover of Vanity Fair had A fedora hat and I think a glove and the headline read, He's Back.

It was suppose to be the cover for this June but, the pic on their website quickly disappeared as fast as it got on there!
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

bluetopez said:
From what I remember The cover of Vanity Fair had A fedora hat and I think a glove and the headline read, He's Back.

It was suppose to be the cover for this June but, the pic on their website quickly disappeared as fast as it got on there!
Click to expand...

:bugeyed

that hell'of'a coincidence
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

bluetopez said:
From what I remember The cover of Vanity Fair had A fedora hat and I think a glove and the headline read, He's Back.

It was suppose to be the cover for this June but, the pic on their website quickly disappeared as fast as it got on there!
Click to expand...

vanityfairjune2010.jpg


:scratch:

To me this is fake. -_- The source of the letter of the name of the magazine is wrong. It appeared in the magazine's website, but has no evidence as it actually appeared in the magazine's website.
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

Ashtanga said:
vanityfairjune2010.jpg


:scratch:

To me this is fake. -_- The source of the letter of the name of the magazine is wrong. It appeared in the magazine's website, but has no evidence as it actually appeared in the magazine's website.
Click to expand...

this is as fake as it could be

and you are right it's not the vanity fair logo
they never have covers with that much empty space
and I personally did not see a barcode on the cover before.


and here's the actual June 2010 cover of Vanity Fair

h-cover-1006.jpg


see the link http://www.vanityfair.com/magazine/toc/contents-201006

you can also follow the upcoming covers from this link http://www.vanityfair.com/magazine
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

Ashtanga said:
vanityfairjune2010.jpg


:scratch:

To me this is fake. -_- .
Click to expand...

This was just a fans representation of what they saw. Clearly this is fake and is not THE cover.:smilerolleyes:
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

Dangerous Incorporated said:
This was just a fans representation of what they saw. Clearly this is fake and is not THE cover.:smilerolleyes:
Click to expand...
Yes (I know!)....... but people saw and they can not prove what they saw on the website of the magazine. And believe, some believers believe that this is the cover. :doh: So I reinforced what is fake in my previous post.


Well, I knowing that this Sunday here in Brazil, two fans (probably non-believers) will go on a TV show talking about Dave Dave. :doh: :smilerolleyes: I'm already wondering what they will say.... :popcorn:
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

Joe, Majestik and Brian Oxman said that Michael is 100% dead on the Eddie Jones show today.
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

^^No it was about the Tribute show in Rome where a woman called Samantha was saying that Michael will be there in a disguise.
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

"Hi,

My name is jhon. I will spare a second name as i do not want any lawsuits brought against me by AEG or any company affiliated with them.

I worked as part of the technical team on Michaels This is it production.

Firstly let me just say, Michael was a good man, i bare him no ill will or malice, but the reason for this posting is for a few simple reasons--I am publicly not permitted to talk about any aspect of the this is it production. Everyone who worked on that has been told not to give any kind of public statement, only officials or people who are granted permission by AEG are allowed to discuss publicly about the production. People who are allowed are the obvious ones, such as directors(Kenny etc.) Dancers, a few people from producti0n(set, costume designers), musical director etc, the dancers etc...

Understand this...everything that is being said by these people has been vetted and checked. They are told which details to reveal.

MY main anger and point of this article is 3 main things, that i witnessed but did not see in the dvd movie(that my nephew purchased)

1. Many of the vocals used in this is it movie are not the vocals i heard. Please hear me out.
I heard Michael sing ALL of his songs without playback, in the rehearsals we NEVER USE PLAYBACK. When i was younger and starting out i got a job on Michaels earlier tour in 1991. I worked as a junior in productions, and i witnessed 2 rehearsal sessions.--there was no playback, even though when he had taken the show out of rehearsals and onto the road there was a playback. I am sure you can find rehearsals from an earlier tour on the INTERNET--just look into it-he never uses playback on rehearsals-it is pointless because there is no audience .
Basically from my experience with Michael, he never uses playback in rehearsals.--it is a waste, as there is no audience.

I am unhappy that Kenny did not show Michaels real voice on a few songs.

2. My second problem is that some performances from Michael has been left out. He turned up for around 3 rehearsals a week, out of a 6 day week. And in the end had done around 4 full rehearsals before june 25th.

How it worked was like this---Michael spent time learning the moves with his choreographer, and would come in and rehearse with the dancers on average 1-2 times a week, the 3rd day when he was at rehersals he looked into productions and had costume fittings etc.. When Michael was absent there would be a double, just to step in(so the dancers could rehearse). I blatantly saw this double in the movie, in the Smooth criminal performance. You see, that background(with the towers and building)was fully completed after his death. Any footage of him in-front of those building in smooth criminal is not him, HOWEVER IT IS MICHAEL WHEN THE BACKGROUND IS WHITE. That particular scene was confusing, as they mixed the 2 footages together-the footage of the buildings is used with a Michael step in( a double), and when he is in-front of a white screen that is him.-confusing but watch that scene again and you will know what i mean.--it is him when he says POW and he is in front of a WHITE screen, BUT IT IS THE DOUBLE WHEN HE IS IN-FRONT OF A 3D BACKGROUND OF BUILDINGS.

Other performances that, after researching it, has been denied. MICHAEL did perform dirty Diana--it was a masterpiece.---granted Michael did not sound all that good, it was only rehearsal.--he did it twice. The set up was excellent.---why AEG are denying it had taken place i do not know.

We are the world was also performed, and heal the world and a few others.

iNFACT IF YOU LOOK HARD ENOUGH ON THE INTERNET YOU WILL FIND FANS THAT HAVE RECORDED HIM PERFORMING DIRTY DIANA(ON THERE PHONES OUTSIDE STAPLE CENTRE), BUT KENNY HAS DENIED THAT HE PERFORMED IT.

I just wanted to let you guys, the real fans, that there is the real footage out there somewhere and one day you will hopefully get to see it.

3. MY third problem with the movie is it did not address the health concerns that we all saw. Not the thinness, Michael, if my memory serves me well has always been thin-this was not a problem. The problems that i saw, was basically Michael had some problem with his feet. After his rehearsal with the dancers, he would usually be in a great deal of pain, from his feet. I don't know if any one can shed some light on this, but someone on set said his skin on his feel tears easily and has become very sensitive-after years of putting them to use i guessed-this is why Michaels dancers were going to do a large number of the heavy routines, with Michael only participating in a few dance routines(such as beat it the way you make me feel), the rest of the time he would be just walking around stage, filling the room with his presence

He was also in great pain from his back. Although this is not in the movie, but on days that Michael was not there randy, don't know his second name but from my understanding at the time, he was the man who was funding this elaborate show, randy was always talking to Kenny about Michaels and his worries about him not completing 50. Randy and Kenny were talking a lot, and made alot of plans in-case his health fails, Randy also hired a doctor for Michael.

Kenny, as instructed by Randy, always made sure the camera's were rolling on the days mj turned up for rehearsals, although he denies this, but these film footages were made as a guarantee, that if something happened he would have something get his investment back on. I don't know if you fans know this, or whether it is common knowledge or not, but Kenny and Randy are cousins(i think distant)

In fact we were all told that if we saw Michael and his entourage we were to send word to Kenny immediately so as he could instruct the camera men to film.


Well i have said my peace...

My message to Michael----Michael you were being subjected to games and spin for most of the latter years of your life, i don't know if you were aware of it, but it continued until the day you died....i hope you have finally found the rest that you deserve.

I have given this page of my final words on the issue of Michael to a friend, who will find the best place to place this piece of writing.

I hope it gives all who read an insight.

Eternal peace and god bless you all."

_________________

Salve , il mio nome è Jhon .
Userò un secondo nome perchè non voglio che la AEG o altre compagnie ad essa affiliate agiscano contro di me con azioni legali .

Ho lavorato nel team tecnico della produzione di This Is It .

Per prima cosa lasciatemi dire che Michael era una persona buona , non voglio mostrarlo con inteto malvagio, questo messaggio nasce da alcune motivazioni - di alcuni aspetti della produzione non è permesso parlare pubblicamente .
A tutti coloro che hanno lavorato a questo progetto (This Is It) è stato detto di non rilasciare alcuna dichiarazione pubblica , solo le persone a cui AEG ha dato il permesso sono autorizzate a parlare pubblicamente della produzione . Ovvaimente queste persone sono poche , come il direttore (Kenny Ortega) , i ballerini , poche persone della produzione ( tecnici del set , costumisti ...)

Capite ... tutto ciò che queste persone dicono è controllato e visionato .Loro gli dicono quali dettagli rivelare .

La mia rabbia e la ragione di quest articolo è in 3 cose , di cui io sono stato testimone e che non si vedono all'interno del dvd ( che mio nipote ha comprato) :

1- Molte parti vocali usata nel film non sono quelle che io ho sentito . Cercate di seguirmi .
Io ho sentito Michael cantare TUTTE le canzoni senza usare il playbacK , nelle prove non ha MAI USATO IL PLAYBACK .
Ho cominciato a lavorare con Michael nel 1991 , lavoravo in produzione e ho assistito a due sessioni di prove - non c'era playback .
Sono sicuro che potete trovare le prove dei tour su internet , e vedrete che non usa il playback durante le prove , è inutile perchè non c'è il pubblico .
Fondamentalmente nella mia esperienza con Michael non ha mai usato il playback durante le prove - è sprecato perchè non c'è il pubblico .

Non sono contento del fatto che Kenny in alcune canzoni non abbia mostrato la vera voce di Michael .


2- Il mio secondo problema è che alcune esibizioni di Michael non sono state incluse. Lui veniva a 3 prove a settimana , per alla fine aveva fatto circa 4 prove complete prima del 25 giugno .

Si lavorava in questo modo : Michael passava il tempo imparando i movimenti con il coreografo , e provava con i ballerini in media 1-2 volte a settimana , il terzo giorno di prove veniva in prduzione e alle prove per i costumi ... Quando Michael non c'era era presente un sosia , così i ballerini avrebbero potuto provare . Nel film si vede palesemente il sosia , nell'esibizione di Smooth Criminal . Si vede , la parte sullo sfondo ( quello con le torri e i palazzi) è stata interamnete completate dopo la sua morte .
In alcune parti della pellicola in cui lui si trova di fronte ai palazzi in Smoot Criminal non è lui , E' MICHAEL QUANDO LO SFONDO E' BIANCO .
Questa scena in particolare è confusa , è come se avessero mischiato due spezzoni : nella parte in cui lui è di fronte ai palazzi è il sosia , nella parte in cui c'è lo sfondo bianco è Michael - è confusa , ma gaurdate di nuovo quella scena e capirete cosa voglio dire - è Michael quando dice 'POW' ed è di fronte allo sfondo bainco , ma quando si trova di fronte allo schermo in 3D con le torri e i palazzi è il sosia .

Altre esibizioni che sono state provate non sono state incluse nel dvd . Michael si è esibito in Dirty Diana - era un capolavoro. Michael non lo si sentiva più di tanto , erano solo prove , lo ha fatto un paio di volte . L'impostazione era eccellente - non so perchè AEG sta negando che queste cose siano state fatte .

Anche 'We ae the World' e'Heal the World' sono state fatte e altre ancora.

Infatti su internet potete vedere che alcuni fan lo hanno registarto mentre provava 'Dirty Diana' (sul loro cellulare , fuori dallo Staple Center) , ma Kenny ha negato che siano state fatte .

Sto solo cercando di far sapere a voi ragazzi , i veri fans , che da qualche ci sono i veri filmati , e spero che un giorno possiate vederli .

3- Il mio terzo problema rigaurdo il film è che per quanto concerne la salute di Michael non è stato mostrato ciò che noi tutti abbiamo visto . Non la sua magrezza , se la memoria non mi inganna Michael è sempre stato molto magro , non era un problema . Ciò che ho visto è che Michael aveva alcuni problemi con i piedi . Dopo aver provato con i ballerini di solito sentiva sempre dolore ai piedi . Non so se qualcuno può far luce su questa cosa , ma qualcuno sul set diceva che la pelle dei suoi piedi si strappava facilmente ed era divetata molto sensibile dopo anni di ballo , io credo che sia questo il motivo per cui i ballerini di Michael facevano prove pesanti , con Michael che partecipava solo in alcune parti ( come in Beat It o The Way You Mkae my Feel) , per il resto del tempo si limitava a camminare sul palco e a riempire la stanza con la sua presenza .


Aveva anche terribili dolori alla schiena. Sebbene questo non si veda nel film , ma un giorno in cui Michael non c'era Randy , non so il suo cognome ma da quanto ho capito è l'uomo che ha organizzato questi show , Randy parlava spesso con Kenny di Michael , della sua preoccupazione che Michael non riuscisse a portare a termine le 50 date . Randy e Kenny parlavano molto , e facevano dei piani nel caso in cui la salute di Michael fosse peggiorata , Randy assunse anche un dottore per Michael .

Kenny , seguendo le istruzioni di Randy , si assicurava sempre che la telecamera stesse riprendedo quando Michael faceva le prove , anche s elo ha negato , ma le riprese delle prove sono state fatte per garanzia , così nel caso fosse successo qualcosa loro avrebbero preso comunque i loro investimenti . Non so se voi fans lo sapete , se ne siete a conoscenza o meno , ma Randy e Kenny sono cugini ( non direttamente).

Infatti a tutti noi è stato detto che se vedevamo Michael e il suo enturage dovevamo immediatamente avvertire Kenny , in modo che potesse dare istruzioni al caneraman pe ril film .


Bene , ho detto tutto ...

Il mio messaggio per Michael --- Michael negli ultimi anni della tua vita sei stato oggetto si affari vari , non so se tu eri consapevole di questo , ma ciò è continuato fino al giorno della tua morte . Spero che tu abbia finalmente trovato la pace che meriti .

Ho dato questa pagina con le mie ultime parole su Michael ad un amico , che troverà il posto migliore per renderla pubblica .

Spero che ciò che leggerete possa farvi capire più cose .

La pace eterna e Dio vi benedicano tutti .

http://mjbelievers.forumattivo.com/...ico-di-this-is-it-rivelazioni-shock-t1305.htm
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

Dangerous Incorporated said:
Joe, Majestik and Brian Oxman said that Michael is 100% dead on the Eddie Jones show today.
Click to expand...

I listened to the majority of the show.

I must say that Oxman's comments about Paris's reaction to her father's death was unnecessary. He must learn to keep this much personal things private. It wasn't his place to disclose such information.

I must also applaud Majestic as he said the kids are already in a hard place dealing with / accepting their father's death and they do not need people playing with their minds saying that their father is alive / around us in disguise / coming back etc. And he's 100% right. That must be the most smart / logical / meaningful thing I heard recently.
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

^^ You just wanted to show half naked men did you? lol

You can watch Joe, Brian and Makestik's comments on LACRA Speaks Out w/ Eddie Jones here:
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/6950717
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

more BS from BO:

Michael NEVER fired Mr.Oxman. He and TM had a conflict and Mr.Oxman stopped going to court, but he continued working for MJ and because of Mr.Oxman charges were brought against the accuser's mother for welfare fraud. Just because someone tweets, doesn't make it so.
The Administrator
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

Dangerous Incorporated said:
Joe, Majestik and Brian Oxman said that Michael is 100% dead on the Eddie Jones show today.
Click to expand...

:( .... So now what?


Do we just ignore all the inconsistencies and the coincidences?

These three aren't u know much of anyone's favorite when it comes to being accurate! lol But, Joe is MJ's pops so?

Crap....no wonder I'm am 50/50

*SIGH* :(
 
Last edited:
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

Well that's that for me then.

He's gone.
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

I don't get what does it change anyway. people heard joe and other family members saying michael was murdered before, yet they kept believing the hoax. I'm not saying there is\isn't a hoax, i just don't get why this interview changes everything for you. Joe said he's going to sue Murray. Jermaine pronounced the death of his brother on June 25, 2009. just wondering why does this specific interview make some people change their mind. it's not like they all said "Michael Is alive" until now.

you don't think they'd make a memorial\burial and then say "maybe he's not 100% dead, who knows?"

didn't see the interview. i don't really care about what those 3 have to say. regarding to anything.
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

invincibletal said:
i don't get what does it change anyway. People heard joe and other family members saying michael was murdered before, yet they kept believing the hoax. I'm not saying there is\isn't a hoax, i just don't get why this interview changes everything for you. Joe said he's going to sue murray. Jermaine pronounced the death of his brother on june 25, 2009. Just wondering why does this specific interview make some people change their mind. It's not like they all said "michael is alive" until now.

You don't think they'd make a memorial\burial and then say "maybe he's not 100% dead, who knows?"

didn't see the interview. I don't really care about what those 3 have to say. Regarding to anything.
Click to expand...

good point! :)
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

Here is the latest update from TS for anyone interested :)

http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9891

TS said:
TIAI Update #5c: DO you Think 4 your Self?


5-6. The greatest Show on earth!

Many have referred to this hoax as “the greatest show on earth”. This is because MJ had a song by this name, on the album “Ben” {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_(album)}. Also, this was a slogan used by Barnum & Bailey Circus {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringling_Bros._and_Barnum_&_Bailey_Circus}. And many already know that this “greatest show on earth” circus was arriving at Staples, during the MJ memorial on 7-7-09 {http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/4n3aKeaHZMh/Circus+Elephants+Arrive+Staples+Center+Hours/lrNekFroB6g; http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=313;
http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=315}.

It is quite obvious that TMZ is playing a big part in this show—not only because they were first to announce the “death”, and also first on many other MJ news—but also because they are not afraid to give attention to the hoax (unlike the rest of the bigger media channels, especially in the USA). So Update #5c here is going to be primarily about TMZ’s role in the greatest show on earth.

Although there have been several hoax related articles on TMZ, discussed in previous updates: the latest and greatest one was the walking casket, with the “RIP” or “Still alive” poll (now at 97% alive!). “… no one saw any evidence that the casket left the building [Staples]. It fueled a grassy knoll-type theory that Jackson’s body wasn’t really inside the casket and maybe he was still alive. Finally, our spies have come clean.” {http://www.tmz.com/2010/04/10/michael-jackson-casket-memorial-burial-staples-center/}

Why did TMZ wait nine months to post this? Do you really think that their “spies” kept this secret for nine months? And why would the “spies” keep it secret for so long? And if it was really such a grand secret, why did they ever “come clean”?? Doesn’t it make much more sense that TMZ is playing their part in the greatest show on earth—and now that we are in the return process, it’s time to agitate the public about the hoax?

Also, it’s extremely interesting that TMZ chose the “grassy knoll” as an example of the MJ hoax theory: because the managing editor for TMZ, Harvey Levin, firmly believes that the grassy knoll theory is a TRUE theory! “And I really believe there was a gunman in the grassy knoll.” {TMZ Live, 1-28-2010, part 2, 0:37; http://www.tmz.com/tmz-live/?mediaKey=0e04ee09-56b7-4ed0-b6ad-28a99781b4ba&isShareURL=true}

Michael Jackson also believes that the grassy knoll theory is true: “JFK exposed the CIA. TRUTH be told the grassy knoll” {http://www.lyrics007.com/Michael Jackson Lyrics/Tabloid Junkie Lyrics.html; see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabloid_Junkie}. So I guess this means that MJ himself believes that the hoax theory is a true (grassy knoll) theory!!! :lol: :lol:

Harvey also revealed something interesting, when talking about Murray at Forest Lawn: “He [Murray] was not setting out to kill Michael Jackson at all. ... He didn’t intend to kill Michael Jackson.” {TMZ Live, 2-9-2010, 2:53; http://www.tmz.com/tmz-live/?mediaKey=87528285-1804-40c5-af23-fa22a0910b93&isShareURL=true} Compare that statement with this article from TMZ, posted a few days earlier, and on the same subject of Murray visiting FL: “Murray showed up at Forest Lawn Memorial Park on Wednesday afternoon to visit the tomb of the man he may or may not have accidentally killed.” {http://www.tmz.com/2010/02/06/conrad-murray-michael-jackson-tomb-forest-lawn-photos/}

The last phrase there, “may not have accidentally killed”, does not mean intentionally killed; we know this because Harvey said Murray “didn’t intend to kill” MJ. So the other meaning is that Murray “may not have ... killed” MJ at all. As far as whether MJ killed himself, Harvey doesn’t believe that idea, either {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MqBbH0GxGE}. So the only option left: Murray may not have accidentally killed MJ, because maybe MJ is not dead!

Notice also the similar statement in this TMZ post, just a few days later: “... he [Murray] may or may not have been responsible for the death of Michael Jackson …” {http://www.tmz.com/2010/02/14/dr-conrad-murray-carnival-michael-jackson-photos-picture}

But let’s get back to the walking casket article and hoax poll: on 4-12, TMZ Live discussed the poll. Harvey said that he loved the poll results (at the time it was 55% “Still alive”). Even more interesting was Jason, the other lawyer sitting beside Harvey; he responded to the poll by saying “Absolutely, unquestionably alive.” {Part 1, 1:05; http://www.tmz.com/tmz-live/?mediaKey=1dae706d-e702-4ae1-8632-c5517fbef207&isShareURL=true}

However, a few days later, when the poll had reached 86% alive—Mike said quite the opposite: “No. He’s 100% not alive. He’s 100% not alive.” {TMZ Live 4-19-2010, Part 2, 3:30; http://www.tmz.com/tmz-live/?mediaKey=aa51a242-8d16-4c8b-be85-3f36909e99d3&isShareURL=true}

So which do we believe: “Absolutely, unquestionably alive”, or “100% not alive”? And the answer is—believe it or not—NEITHER! Harvey didn’t make either of these statements; and even if he did, we can’t accept everything Harvey says unquestionably. Remember the TMZ disclaimer {http://www.tmz.com/terms/#warranties}?

Actually, for months TMZ has been giving out mixed signals regarding MJ: sometimes that he is dead (such as their report on June 25, and many other items since then); and sometimes that maybe he is alive. So we should not make TMZ the main reason for believing in the hoax; instead, we should go primarily by clues from MJ and the family (see 5-10).

Nevertheless, there is value in watching TMZ: we do have clear evidence of the hoax from the Jacksons, etc, and we know that TMZ has been first on many MJ news items. So by taking what we know from other investigation, and also by filtering through TMZ mixed signals to connect the dots: we just might be able to get a pretty good view of The greatest Show on earth!

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
5-7. Michael Jackson Killed Himself?

As most of you know by now, all of the TIAI updates have had significant dates incorporated into the update number and final section (1-18, 2-5, 3-9, 4-44, 5-12, 6-?, etc). April 4 (4-4) was both Easter and the MLK assassination anniversary; and the next day (4-5) was a Murray court day. However, there are not 44 days in the month of April, so what was the 4-44 about (in Update #4)? {http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=9597#p161093}

On March 9, Update #4a was posted, and the outline had 44 sections (4-44); and that last section was titled: “Do You Still Need Even More Evidence???????-??” Nearly a month later, on 4-4 at 4:00 AM (444), TMZ posted a major article in the MJ case: “Dr. Murray’s Defense - Jackson Killed Himself” {http://www.tmz.com/2010/04/05/micha...cause-iv-addict-overdose-heart-legal-defense/}. This was not just another of the countless MJ articles that TMZ puts out; instead, this was a huge breaking story—which reverberated across the media, and also generated a ten-page thread in this forum, as well as much discussion in other forums, etc {http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=8200}.

As TMZ frequently does, the time of posting this article was changed later (in order to keep it on the top of the home page, in this case for more than a day). However, you can easily see that the original post time was 4-4 at 4:00 AM in this thread: {http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=8199}.

How many TMZ articles are posted exactly on the hour, maybe one in five or ten? And there are eleven other hours, so it could’ve been posted exactly on the hour—and yet a different hour, not 4:00. In either case: if it was a different hour (such as 6:00), or if it was not posted on an exact hour (such as 4:57), then we would not have the nice 4-4 at 4:00 (444). And notice that 444 is another one of those numbers which are multiples of 111 (see 5-3, above).

Furthermore, TIAI redirected to the TMZ home page, less than an hour before this 444 article was posted {http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=8199}. TIAI had previously redirected to specific TMZ articles; but this was the very first (and only) time that TIAI redirected to the TMZ home page {see TIAI history in lilwendy’s blog, http://lilwendy.wordpress.com/2010/05/13/www-thisisalsoit-com-to-date/}.

What is the likelihood that this was all just coincidence? And if it’s easy to see that this was intentional (not coincidence): then why can’t we understand that the rest of the 111-based numerology is intentional and planned (333, 666, 777, 999, 1221, 1776, 1998)? We can be 111% certain that this was all planned, not coincidence (see 5-9, below). Realistically speaking, there is no question whether it was planned; the only real question is who was behind the plan: MJ himself, or others (see 5-10, below)?

Actually, it is statistically far more likely that a coincidence occurred with the Update 4-44, and the TMZ 4-4 4:00 article (& TIAI redirect to TMZ, just before that article was posted). Therefore, if you can’t imagine that this 444 was just coincidence, then you shouldn’t even consider the possibility that all the 111-based hoax numerology is merely random chance.

By the way: even before that TMZ article on 4-4 4:00 (and far more after it), many were thinking that TIAI/TS works for TMZ—and perhaps is Harvey Levin himself. However, I am not Harvey, nor am I any other staff or employee at TMZ.

Back to the TMZ article itself, though: “Dr. Murray’s Defense - Jackson Killed Himself”. Is this true? Did MJ really kill himself (accidentally) with Propofol? Do you really beLIEve that story? If the whole article is true, then MJ is actually dead and there is no hoax. But if you still think that MJ is alive, then why do you believe even one single word of the article?

What we can understand from the article, is that MJ planned his own (fake) “death”; and several people did understand “killed himself” in this sense {http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=8200}. But we don’t come to this conclusion primarily because of this TMZ article, or any other TMZ article for that matter; instead, we arrive at this conclusion primarily from the family—and most of all from MJ himself (Gilda, numerology timing, etc). Then, and only then, can we begin to understand what is real and what is not real in TMZ articles; we can see the hoax clues, and connect the dots.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
5-8. Zone for MJ Info

Another TMZ article, just a few days before, was titled: “Conrad Murray - Michael Was Alive at UCLA” {http://www.tmz.com/2010/03/30/conra...aramedics-ucla-medical-center-wrongful-death/}. Here again, if you accept the whole story, then forget the hoax; because the whole story is discussing when MJ died (at home, or UCLA)—it’s not discussing if MJ died.

Or you can connect the dots, and recognize that “Michael was alive” is the main clue—and much of the rest is unnamed or unverified “sources”. Anything that is not readily verifiable, and especially anything that is unnamed “sources”, should go straight in the garbage.

This is part of what Michael is trying to teach us. We are not to blindly trust tabloid media—or even mainstream media. Yet, just like TMZ, at times there is reliable and valuable information in the media.

For example, video interviews; it is very easy to fabricate false information in writing, but it is much harder to fabricate a video interview with someone. And even if someone did create a fake video interview (using a double, or a computer-generated image, etc): the real person would probably hear about it, and deny that it was really him.

And there are other methods to help establish what information is reliable. Twitter has a system of verifying celebrities; so a tweet from a verified account is most likely a reliable source. The Twitter for ALLJACK5ONS was not verified (it’s a group account); but we know it is reliable, because other verified accounts in the family have confirmed it.

Another type of fairly reliable information, is when the media (accidentally) says things which actually support the conspiracy view of things. For example, when local media initially reported bombs found in the Murrah Federal building on April 19, 1995, and then later the mainstream media said that there were no other bombs—we know that both stories are not reliable {http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6B4vbO67Bp4}.

Common sense tells us that the initial and local reports are reliable; but then the big guys came in and controlled the mass media, and overrode those initial reliable reports. This happened also with the JFK junior assassination, and many other cases such as 911, etc {http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=1930&p=27572}.

The corrupt media expects us to believe that professionals found additional bombs in the Murrah building, got equipment and experts to deactivate these bombs, and then later they realized that there were no bombs in the building! Supposedly these professionals had been unable to tell the difference between a bomb and a grilled cheese sandwich—and they didn’t even catch their mistake, until they were trying to deactivate the sandwiches!!! :lol: Sorry, but I think that this story is the cheesy one; and the first reports from the local media are far more reliable.

And at this point, I should mention that as far as possible: TIAI Revealed, and the Updates, have used the above mentioned and similar types of reliable sources for information. So don’t accept something just because TIAI says it; but on the other hand, don’t fail to distinguish between reliable and unreliable sources and documentation. Rejecting reliable information isn’t much if any better (maybe worse) than accepting unreliable information. Some people believe everything (gullible), others believe nothing (stubborn); if we want the truth, we must find a balance between those extremes.

Back to TMZ: they are media, and they are playing both the bad guy (tabloid and media lies), and also the good guy (hoax hints). This is a very difficult dual role to be in, since you get attacked from all sides. Non-believers don’t like TMZ, because of the hoax-related articles and clues, etc (like the walking casket, read the comments under that TMZ article); and many hoax believers don’t like TMZ, because they say things that are not true—or perhaps even disrespectful.

But the use of “*****”, etc, is actually a real good indication that TMZ is not merely playing around with hoax believers, to get more hits on their website. If that were really the case (and they were not playing the part of bad media): then wouldn’t they avoid all such statements, so that none of the hoaxers would be against TMZ? If hoaxers understood more clearly the roles of TMZ, and also how to distinguish between reliable and unreliable information in the media (how to connect the dots), then they might not be quite so hard on TMZ.

Furthermore, TMZ is very clearly supporting MJ’s message—because they are not condemning Murray as guilty before the trial based on hearsay, unnamed sources, and popular public opinion! Once again, TMZ said: “... he [Murray] may or may not have been responsible [guilty] for the death of Michael Jackson …” {http://www.tmz.com/2010/02/14/dr-conrad-murray-carnival-michael-jackson-photos-picture}. If this doesn’t convince you that TMZ is not actually against MJ and his message, then what would convince you?

And even if you still think that TMZ is merely out to get more hits from hoaxers: you can’t deny the fact that they have a lot of information about MJ, and frequently they are the first to publish it {http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/...posts&sk=t&sd=a&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search}. Where are they getting this information? How do they know so much in the MJ and Murray case? Who is feeding them, if not one or more in the Jackson family—at least in some cases {http://www.tmz.com/videos?autoplay=...3-45d9-4722-af9c-54b27617a799&isShareURL=true}?

Whoever it is, why don’t the Jacksons try to stop the leak of information? Or why don’t they speak out against TMZ’s reports, especially the hoax related things on TMZ? If MJ were really dead, then the walking casket is indeed highly disrespectful to MJ and the whole family. So why haven’t all of the Jacksons come forward (or at least one of the family) to protest TMZ, the walking casket, and the still alive poll, etc—just like Jermaine and La Toya did with the gay garbage {http://www.tmz.com/2010/05/03/jerma...arnie-klein-jason-pfeiffer-accusations-video/; http://www.tmz.com/2010/05/09/la-toya-jackson-arnold-klein-jason-pfeiffer-michael-jackson-video/}?

TIAI Update #5d is next. {http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/search.php?author_id=1440&sr=posts}
Click to expand...
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

I've watched this thread for awhile now, and witnessed some of you use and quote Oxman, whenever he says something related to the hoax thats not a definitive answer. I've also seen some of you discredit him when he says something that contradicts Michael being alive. :sigh:
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

I can not dismiss what I saw , heard and read so far.
I am still hoping. Can"t help myself.
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

zpredra5 said:
I can not dismiss what I saw , heard and read so far.
I am still hoping. Can"t help myself.
Click to expand...

Absolutely, even though sometimes it can get hard! But, I'm still here! :) And it's only 2010 so...;)
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

zpredra5 said:
I can not dismiss what I saw , heard and read so far.
I am still hoping. Can"t help myself.
Click to expand...

bluetopez said:
Absolutely, even though sometimes it can get hard! But, I'm still here! :) And it's only 2010 so...;)
Click to expand...

:agree: I feel the same as both of you...
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

BLACKORWHITE May 16, 2010



Posted on 5/16/2010, 2:15 p.m.

hello guys, good Sunday.
Today reading the various posts and comments I realized that the Barry's story is creating doubts in each of you, but it's up to you to choose what to do.
I think Barry is really a Michael's impersonator and I do not deny that the singer throughout his career has had doubles to replace him in some public appearances, but the Barry's story is touching the ridiculous, excuse me if I would use the adjective "ridiculous" but that's what leads to some people searching for a bit of fame, a bit of celebrity, glory, greatness, exaggerating on some facts.
The fact that this man says some things and show us some photos, it is not conclusive to prove a truth.
I see Michael Jackson in his photos and nothing more and then I wonder ... do he also wants to enter in the vortex of speculation that in recent months is affecting a bit all?
That's Michael, in those photos is our king of pop and I could put my hand on the fire. Do you want believe him? Go ahead but before you do this look at those eyes, that smile, because they do not lie.
Just as the Tribute .. other speculation. Samantha Zolla ... I wantnot talk about it. I have frankly outraged by this story. It's disgusting, really.
Michael is a human and, unfortunately, he is surrounded by so many vultures, but sooner or later The Truth Will Prevail.
Soon we'll arrive in June, a month so bright.




Question:
Does Twitter continue to be a means to get important messages?

Answer:
Twitter, as I wrote, is a great means of communication, not indifferent.

****************************************************************

Posted on 5/16/2010, 2:21 p.m. - user Blackorwhite

Question:
this woman should be punished .... finally people are starting to open their eyes on her ... do not go to that tribute, it will bolster her bank account ... Zolla shame, still if you have a shred of conscience ...

Answer:
The good, the truth, love, always triumph, even if it is not always simple. Valky do not worry, everything will settle down.



Question:
Have Someone got the ticket? Or have someone paid the ticket online? I've booked, but it's not arrived ...

Answer:
Don't you get tickets?
Guys I know that the tribute, as I always said, there will not be, but I would understand to how many of you still do not get the tickets, could you help me?
The family will be in no tribute nor Marlon, it is only a maneuver of Business.
Michael did not need to hide behind another face.
He faced all at high head and no double took his place in public life for all those years.
He Had doubles, impersonators, but not at that level.

******************************************************************

Posted on 5/16/2010, 2:42 p.m. - user Blackorwhite

Michael did not need to hide behind another face. AND HE IS NOT DOING IT EVEN NOW.
Rosy, he is good, more than you think.

******************************************************************

Posted on 5/16/2010, 9:17 p.m. - user Blackorwhite

June 7 and May 25 are not important dates and I don't know why you're asking.
The news about the trial is only a way to go around the obstacle.
All will be postponed, so there will be no false trial in June, neither in September, nor in 2012 .. The farce is over.
Barry Shaw ... This story is boring me and honestly I do not understand why you believe a guy who tells something impossible.
Think about it ... why Michael would need a double for public appearances? Why use an impersonator to the trial? Why do you think this strange man doesn't post not "working" photos?
I tell you ... because it is a fake. Please do not be fooled by these guys.
At the 02 Arena in London he was Michael and he was him in all his other public appearances!
He had no reason do this, no reason.
He does not need to hide behind someone else, Michael is not afraid of anything.

*****************************************************************

Posted on 5/16/2010, 9:24 p.m. - user Blackorwhite

Question:
these people just want fame ... if no one considered them, they would die in a quarter of hour!

Answer:
In fact Laura.

*****************************************************************

Posted on 5/16/2010, 10:02 p.m. - user Blackorwhite

Francy do not worry, even if you can not attend that day, I think that the news will resonate in the world, and you'll also be able to record such a thing.

*****************************************************************

Posted on 5/16/2010, 10:16 p.m. - user Blackorwhite

Question:
So now I wonder, you said thast he has great things planned for the future, but if this return is a kind of final goodbye?...

Answer:
No, it's not a goodbye.

************************************************** *******

Posted on 5/16/2010, 10:27 p.m. - user Blackorwhite

Question:
and if this was the real Michael Jackson posing as his impersonator?
Are you sure that MJ is not playing with us before the BAM?

Answer:
Game of bad taste isn't it?
He is Not Michael.



Question:
hello black .... did you know that this alleged impersonator Barry showed up himself in messenger via webcam?
www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30544795&id=1556012533

Answer:
I think it's a fake.



Edited by Fragolina Velenosa - 17/5/2010, 10:27
 
Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and other theories

Barry Shaw? WTF?

Edit: How come I didn't realize this WAS Michael, lol... Shame on me..
 
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