Michael - The Great Album Debate

They would not launch legal proceedings. It would be far less expensive and far safer as far as public relations go to keep quiet. It is too late for them to do anything other than carry on as normal now. If it was revealed that Sony and the Estate were duped, then it would be a disaster, possibly bringing down the deal between the two. For either party to expose or admit that now would completely destroy any future release. As it happens, the Estate, like the fans, are split on this issue. I'd rather trust McClain when it comes to the music though as he has more experience in that field.

That is not how all of those business men who are running the Estate and are dealing with hundreds of millions of dollars and iron-clad contracts with huge organisations like Cirque du Soleil would treat the risk of putting out fake product. If they have any knowledge or evidence that they have put out fake product, not only would they not reuse any of those songs on new product, but they would sue the Cascios for misrepresentation, call back the "Michael" CDs, and offer refunds.

What you're suggesting is that a big-time company worth close to a billion dollars would basically just sit around and wait and hope that small-time crooks Eddie Cascio, James Porte and Jason Malachi never decide to bring them down.

By the way, if you're serious about the Cascios being criminals, how can you support the Immortal project? You do know they'll be profiting financially from it, because of the inclusion of Monster? Show us you're sincere about this and denounce the show and the CD.
 
That is not how all of those business men who are running the Estate and are dealing with hundreds of millions of dollars and iron-clad contracts with huge organisations like Cirque du Soleil would treat the risk of putting out fake product. If they have any knowledge or evidence that they have put out fake product, not only would they not reuse any of those songs on new product, but they would sue the Cascios for misrepresentation, call back the "Michael" CDs, and offer refunds.

What you're suggesting is that a big-time company worth close to a billion dollars would basically just sit around and wait and hope that small-time crooks Eddie Cascio, James Porte and Jason Malachi never decide to bring them down.

By the way, if you're serious about the Cascios being criminals, how can you support the Immortal project? You do know they'll be profiting financially from it, because of the inclusion of Monster? Show us you're sincere about this and denounce the show and the CD.

Who said I was supporting it? Trying to blackmail me won't work. If the Estate sued Cascio it would be a public relations disaster and destroy their deal wih Sony. Have you any idea how much money they would lose? From purely a legal perspective, they've crossed the i's and dotted the 's. Cascio/Porte/Cupeta aren't going to bring them down because they are the ones who started the whole thing off and would be bringing themselves down in the process. It is very niave to think big business people always play by the rules where a lot of money is involved.

And can you honestly, hand on your heart, listen to Fall in Love or Water and say that's Michael Jackson singing? If so, then what is it specifically about that voice that makes it a closer resemblance to Mj than Jason?
 
Except, of course, that once again you're reading what you want into words that actually mean something else.

McClain produced tracks for the "Michael" album, and wanted more of his material to be used. He likes the old stuff, with old-fashioned arrangements (like what he did with the This Is It song). So when the Cascio tracks appeared, not only does he not like the Cascios for personal reasons (read Frank's book), but he doesn't personally care for modern, dance, pop tracks like the Cascio stuff. So when those rumors started of the songs being fake, he at first grabbed on to them.

But he now accepts the songs are authentic, as confirmed by the Immortal CD.

You know, in the years before the Internet, all of that behind-the-scenes fighting and second-guessing that you put so much faith into would not even be known by any of us on the outside.
Just laughed at this. If he couldn't stop them using Cascio stuff on the Michael album release, I don't think he could've done it this time either. It confirms nothing.

"he now accepts", pfft.
 
^ Wow, have you been living under a rock? Why the hell do you THINK Stella claims that Eddie is lying about MJ recording the 12 songs?

MAYBE because the songs don't sound like MJ, but Jason Malachi, which we have been saying since the launch of Breaking News????
 
"Tear me apart. Break my heart. Let me in this wonderland with you."

I don't mean to cause offence, but how anyone could possibly think it is Michael Jackson singing those words is utterly beyond me.
Not only the words, but also the way it is sung. I feel that Michael would have sung it differently. Not 'break my hee----aaa----aarrt (whining) but more spicy, like 'break my he-ha-heaart'. First syllables of 'heart' following up on eachother more quickly. (don't know the musical term...:brow: )

ETA: Lot of new posts, back to reading.
 
-____-

Were you there ?

Do you know someone who was there ?

Can you confirm it ?

No ? Then IDK why are you calling him a liar.

Because to me the songs do not sound like the guy I've been listening to religiously for 17 years now. They sound just like Jason Cupeta. There is no proof of Michael recording them. They didn't materialise until almost a year after Michael's death and the people alleged to have been involved have completely dissappeared. That's why I'm calling him a liar. I would love to be proven otherwise but they can't do that. If the songs were real there would be recordings of Michael working on these songs ie work tapes. By releasing those they could have stopped the accusations against them, proven that their "friend" Michael really did work hard on these songs and helped to make sure the "Michael" album sold to it's maximum potential and gave the songs their deserved respect. The fact that they failed to provide anything, is for me, the final nail in the coffin.

Do you know someone who was there? Did you see Michael recording these strange sounding songs that share so many similarities with Jason Cupeta?
 
^ Wow, have you been living under a rock? Why the hell do you THINK Stella claims that Eddie is lying about MJ recording the 12 songs?

MAYBE because the songs don't sound like MJ, but Jason Malachi, which we have been saying since the launch of Breaking News????
So how do you feel at being wrong ?
 
Because to me the songs do not sound like the guy I've been listening to religiously for 17 years now. They sound just like Jason Cupeta. There is no proof of Michael recording them. They didn't materialise until almost a year after Michael's death and the people alleged to have been involved have completely dissappeared. That's why I'm calling him a liar. I would love to be proven otherwise but they can't do that. If the songs were real there would be recordings of Michael working on these songs ie work tapes. By releasing those they could have stopped the accusations against them, proven that their "friend" Michael really did work hard on these songs and helped to make sure the "Michael" album sold to it's maximum potential and gave the songs their deserved respect. The fact that they failed to provide anything, is for me, the final nail in the coffin.

Do you know someone who was there? Did you see Michael recording these strange sounding songs that share so many similarities with Jason Cupeta?
If you can't prove that it's Jason Malachi/Cupeta then get proof find videos of Malachi singing and then call Eddie a liar.

Eddie knew MJ since he was a kid you didn't he worked with MJ you didn't so you know more than the man who worked/knew MJ for all those years ?
 
My god, are you a fucking troll or something? What's wrong with you?

You are on ignore from now on.

See, that's what I originally said due to his insulting of us, but calling him that when he's here is taboo. Pentum, he hasn't heard the comparisons, he probably hasn't even heard Malachi enough to tell the differences between the voices. WE know what's happening, and the type of production these Frankenstein songs have speak for itself. These are pitiful, PITIFUL excuses for songs regardless of who they're song by, they only SOUND pretty. It doesn't challenge us or give us depth, they're only there for a quick distraction.

Monster being in IMMORTAL was decided by Cirque BECAUSE THE RAP FIT THE THEME, The Estate had no say in what Kevin Antunes did. Would he have been aware of the magnitude of what he was doing? Probably not, that's why it was limited down to JUST the rap, no questionable vocals.

Bottom line, I'm sick of this and I'm just going to say it. You want to ban or place infractions on my account, then fine.

If you honestly, HONESTLY believe Michael Jackson, one of the greatest vocalists of all time with a vast knowledge of music, recorded these poorly-written songs in such a whiny, inexperienced boy-scout way, you must not have a lot of faith in his vocal ability. Even when he wasn't trying, he could still sing something beautifully and not goaty. When collaborating, Michael - the quintessential perfectionist - would never allow anything poorly written to pass his lips unless he was mumbling and improvising. He had a plan for every song, these songs are evidently never even thought of as being part of the plan. Eddie said that they were going to finalize vocals in London, so why isn't any tracks on his list of songs for an album? Judging by what I've read, Frank was MJ's golden boy and there was conflict between Eddie and Frank because of it. You don't think that he would be bitter if he never got to work with his friend and idol when his brother literally spent his entire adult life as Michael's servant?

Why was Neff-U and Barry Gibb so quick to show us Michael working in video/note form when Eddie hasn't provided a single shred of evidence that he worked on those songs? Why did Michael become so emotionless and whiny for these songs when his philosophy on music was that he never sang what he didn't mean? Why did he record numerous media songs when he said he was done with those songs a year earlier? I really want answers to these questions and I'm waiting for a believer to answer them to a satisfactory degree.
 
Just laughed at this. If he couldn't stop them using Cascio stuff on the Michael album release, I don't think he could've done it this time either. It confirms nothing.

"he now accepts", pfft.

actually logically you need to think that he indeed does not see these songs as unauthentic anymore.

he's a co-executor of the estate, if he thinks/ knows these songs to be fraud but yet allows them to be released and/or does not pursue legal options , he would be putting his executor position on the line. he wouldn't be a "duped" person, he would be a willing/knowing participant.

--------------
Also

If you want to put a person on ignore , do so but do not insult and curse while doing it.
 
I think Fall in Love was the nail in the coffin for me. I listened, and listened, and listened.

Though, the Stay demo has a nice melody.
I have Snippets of Stay (demo) well not the fully leaked stay we know
a earlier version of All I need, without the YANA that was added in.
DJ tagged-free snippets of BN and Monster Demos.
and a Earlier version of Burn tonight. I was lucky to find them on the internet last night. :)
 
I think Fall in Love was the nail in the coffin for me. I listened, and listened, and listened.

I just couldn't resist listening to Fall in Love again - it's awsome !
Well, not per se of course. :D
But for the truth it is. No doubt about it. :D


Edit:
This is ... I dunno what to say.

Listening to all those songs make you laugh, because many parts really are hilarious vocally.
They make you angry, because MJs legacy has been befouled.
They make you shake your head and ask, how could anyone pay them anything for "it's time to put away your beer"?
They make you feel helpless, because some just won't listen.

These tracks are an emotional rollercoaster. Not in a good way though. :)
 
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I mean Breaking News, and Monster could have been hits if they were sung by artist other than Michael. Of course they would be modified, but in reality...they are catchy and could have made a decent top 10. Thats how i feel....i showed my aunt Breaking News today, she was digging it until "Everybody wantin' a peice of Michael Jackson"

She then said, "thats not him, what are they trying to pull!"
 
ivy;3544334 said:
actually logically you need to think that he indeed does not see these songs as unauthentic anymore.

he's a co-executor of the estate, if he thinks/ knows these songs to be fraud but yet allows them to be released and/or does not pursue legal options , he would be putting his executor position on the line. he wouldn't be a "duped" person, he would be a willing/knowing participant.

I'm not convinced.

What could have possibly changed John McClain's mind? Why isn't Roger Friedman—a fanatic Cascio supporter—shouting from the rooftops that both executors now totally support the tracks? And why did Frank DeLio reportedly send an angry email to the estate earlier this year about McClain still being a damper behind the scenes?

Internal politics are messy and complicated. If McClain did sign off on the tracks, it was likely because of unrelenting pressure from John Branca and Sony Music, and not because McClain all of a sudden genuinely believes the Jason Malachi vocals are authentic.

One other thing of note: the album track list for "Michael" was authorized on the night of November 3, 2010, but earlier that same day, Friedman was still receiving insider reports that McClain was against the songs.
 
So Eddie Cascio is a liar because Jason Malachi/Cupeta is singing a song ?

You asked me to show you a video of Jason and I did. In my opinion, and in the opinion of a great many other fans, Eddie is a liar because we believe, based on what we hear in the songs, and other extenuating circumstances, that the person in that video (Jason Cupeta) is the individual singing the songs and not Michael Jackson. I don't know how much simpler I can make it.
 
You asked me to show you a video of Jason and I did. In my opinion, and in the opinion of a great many other fans, Eddie is a liar because we believe, based on what we hear in the songs, and other extenuating circumstances, that the person in that video (Jason Cupeta) is the individual singing the songs and not Michael Jackson. I don't know how much simpler I can make it.

wow so many pages of these thread. I only search the angelikson because of Taj's Q&A thread. I only read about the latest 10 pages.
Honestly, to me, the vocal in that video doesn't sounds like MJ and also doesn't sound like the vocal in Cascio tracks.
I don't know how to use this to prove that the Cascios tracks were fake.
 
wow so many pages of these thread. I only search the angelikson because of Taj's Q&A thread. I only read about the latest 10 pages.
Honestly, to me, the vocal in that video doesn't sounds like MJ and also doesn't sound like the vocal in Cascio tracks.
I don't know how to use this to prove that the Cascios tracks were fake.

I was just posting that video to show someone. It wasn't supposed to be proof. If you want proof then listen to the comparisons. There are many in depth comparisons that show the matches between Jason and the Cascio tracks, in particular the vibrato, accent and pronounciation which all match Jason and not MJ.
 
See, that's what I originally said due to his insulting of us, but calling him that when he's here is taboo. Pentum, he hasn't heard the comparisons, he probably hasn't even heard Malachi enough to tell the differences between the voices. WE know what's happening, and the type of production these Frankenstein songs have speak for itself. These are pitiful, PITIFUL excuses for songs regardless of who they're song by, they only SOUND pretty. It doesn't challenge us or give us depth, they're only there for a quick distraction.

Monster being in IMMORTAL was decided by Cirque BECAUSE THE RAP FIT THE THEME, The Estate had no say in what Kevin Antunes did. Would he have been aware of the magnitude of what he was doing? Probably not, that's why it was limited down to JUST the rap, no questionable vocals.

Bottom line, I'm sick of this and I'm just going to say it. You want to ban or place infractions on my account, then fine.

If you honestly, HONESTLY believe Michael Jackson, one of the greatest vocalists of all time with a vast knowledge of music, recorded these poorly-written songs in such a whiny, inexperienced boy-scout way, you must not have a lot of faith in his vocal ability. Even when he wasn't trying, he could still sing something beautifully and not goaty. When collaborating, Michael - the quintessential perfectionist - would never allow anything poorly written to pass his lips unless he was mumbling and improvising. He had a plan for every song, these songs are evidently never even thought of as being part of the plan. Eddie said that they were going to finalize vocals in London, so why isn't any tracks on his list of songs for an album? Judging by what I've read, Frank was MJ's golden boy and there was conflict between Eddie and Frank because of it. You don't think that he would be bitter if he never got to work with his friend and idol when his brother literally spent his entire adult life as Michael's servant?

Why was Neff-U and Barry Gibb so quick to show us Michael working in video/note form when Eddie hasn't provided a single shred of evidence that he worked on those songs? Why did Michael become so emotionless and whiny for these songs when his philosophy on music was that he never sang what he didn't mean? Why did he record numerous media songs when he said he was done with those songs a year earlier? I really want answers to these questions and I'm waiting for a believer to answer them to a satisfactory degree.
25qzr7p.jpg
 
Reached 1000 pages here. I wonder how many posts have been made in total including the closed threads, etc.
 
"You know I really do hate to say it

It's like some fans don't wanna see

As long as Doubters will be livin',

They'll never let this be, no no..."
 
I was just posting that video to show someone. It wasn't supposed to be proof. If you want proof then listen to the comparisons. There are many in depth comparisons that show the matches between Jason and the Cascio tracks, in particular the vibrato, accent and pronounciation which all match Jason and not MJ.

oh oh I see your point. I heard a lot of Jason Cascio track comparison but it actually doesn't convince me. Does anyone do MJ/ Cascio similarity comparison? I just can not believe that Branca, Teddy Riley, Sony and all those people would risk their reputation and face millions lawsuit if they don't have enough evidence to prove MJ is the lead vocal.

To me, the lead vocal sounds like very immature demo with lots of cut and paste but I still hear MJ. I think the J family should really go to do some forensic analysis and sue them if they really think it's fake.
 
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