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StellaJackson
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The whole talk about the studio not being suitable to record releasable vocals is irrelevant when we consider the fact that Michael was quite happy to record and release the new vocals for WBSS 08 in that studio. The irony being that he probably did use the shower booth for that. Eddie Cascio: "This is where Michael recorded those backing vocals." Yes Eddie your right, but no stories about the lead vocal eh? And what's this - Thriller 25 album credits shows the new vocals as "additional backing vocals." I've always believed that Eddie let out exactly what Michael did do there with that comment.
not really. when you consider one is "additional back vocals" and the other is "final lead vocals". These things make a difference. It's not all the same thing.
StellaJackson
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StellaJackson
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5:12. Disgusting. Absolutely disgusting.
[youtube]jDWGRPeeQ7w[/youtube]
[youtube]jDWGRPeeQ7w[/youtube]
Dorian
Smooth Criminal
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It's got you bouncing off the waaaaall
It's got you drunk enough to faaaall
:dancin:
Grent
Guests
Suitable for release ... that depends.
I would not consider this basement recording suitable for a high class release. BUT, 'to make it releaseable' you won't change vibrato speed, timbre, pronounciation, ... .
If I got a vocal with a snort and a woman audible twice ... no, I would not consider that suitable for release.
But you don't need a vocal booth at all. You can perfectly record in your living room, if that room sounds good. And of course, the basement will have a difficult frequency response and all ... still: Cascio singer is not going to be the result of trying to fix that.
If a vocal is clipping once in a while ... for an engineer that's a no go of course. Won't make it not sound like MJ though. There are released vocals out there where MJ is clipping or also popping.
Processing ... listen to Remember the Time video version or acapella. This is MJ processed quite a bit. And you notice. Still MJ though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeiFF0gvqcc&feature=player_detailpage#t=376s
I would not consider this basement recording suitable for a high class release. BUT, 'to make it releaseable' you won't change vibrato speed, timbre, pronounciation, ... .
If I got a vocal with a snort and a woman audible twice ... no, I would not consider that suitable for release.
But you don't need a vocal booth at all. You can perfectly record in your living room, if that room sounds good. And of course, the basement will have a difficult frequency response and all ... still: Cascio singer is not going to be the result of trying to fix that.
If a vocal is clipping once in a while ... for an engineer that's a no go of course. Won't make it not sound like MJ though. There are released vocals out there where MJ is clipping or also popping.
Processing ... listen to Remember the Time video version or acapella. This is MJ processed quite a bit. And you notice. Still MJ though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeiFF0gvqcc&feature=player_detailpage#t=376s
Sooo... Sooo... Wrong...
Jesta
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It's annoying that they're shoving THESE songs down our throats and not the likes of Hollywood (Teddy's version DOES have enjoyable moments) and Another Day. Even Behind the Mask is conveniently forgotten about! C'mon, those are ALL great tracks! Why can't we have those shoved down our throats instead?
Billyjeanplxiv
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What if they are real....WHAT IF...I mean say we found out somehow the songs are 100% real MJ and not Jason. Wht do we do?
I dont want any snide comments like "They arent" or "I dont hear..." blah blah blah.
Forget what you hear now, and imagine if the songs were proven with HARD CONCRETE NOT FAKED EVIDENCE. Then what?
I dont want any snide comments like "They arent" or "I dont hear..." blah blah blah.
Forget what you hear now, and imagine if the songs were proven with HARD CONCRETE NOT FAKED EVIDENCE. Then what?
Jesta
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I would still find their actions completely deplorable. These songs are in no way releasable, and the methods they went to make them presentable has caused a giant fan schism that hasn't fully healed. Real or not, they're still mediocre, Frankenstein pop.
Grent
Guests
I'd still not buy any of the ex...planations but one: Mike just really wanted to sing that way for whatever reason.
BUMPER SNIPPET
Guests
There is no reason to go on pm, this is a public debate and I do not consider my post as a personal issue with Ivy. When we do have a personal issue we do go on pm as we have already done it in the past. Right now we're talking about the Cascio singer and teh way how we interpret things, we are not talking about our private lives.
By the way I already explained myself, and I don't know how many times I have to repeat it I have nothing against Ivy as a person, I am simply counter-arguing her posts on the relevant subject. Although my arguments might sound harsh, they are not aimed at Ivy as a person, but at Ivy's posts. What is written between Ivy and me on PM will remain private, and I wouldn't allow myself to drag our private discussion into a public thread. No chance, even if I fiercely disagree with Ivy on the Cascio songs. I don't know where this idea of hate towards Ivy comes, and I am tired of justifying myself.
Laws and regulations are meant to be objective, but we all know that they can be interpreted one way or another, that's why we have lawyers, or else everything would have been crystal clear, which is not the case.
You missed my point. I didn't expect you to talk about things you don't know. I am just saying, give more credit to people when they talk to you about things they know, the way people give you credit when you speak to them about things you know.
The main problem is that you acknowledge that you can't hear the differences, although the fact is that there are differences. That's what I was trying to tell you, it is not subjective when someone has a shaky and goaty vibrato, it's not subjective when someone omits to pronounce [t] in waiting, it's not subjective when someone snorts, etc. , yet you are saying it is Michael singing. Now, let's say, you don't hear all those mentioned things, but if you could hear those differences wouldn't you be enraged to hear that on an official Michael Jackson's album and those very same characteristics on Jason Malachi's albums?
The thing is, you say that something is subjective only because you can't hear it. But if people explain to you that it is not subjective because of this criteria or that criteria, then why do you still put forward that it is subjective? And of course as a staff of a Michael Jackson's fan community, you could influence people coming to this board to seek some info. You don't need to shout it out all over the net, voicing your opinion is enough.
I did not say that you couldn't voice your opinion. Why are you twisting my words? I just said that you always think that doubters influence believers as if people are unable to decide for themselves. YOur question to Lucilla was a perfect example. But in return, I am sayingn that you as a staff or administrator of a big website like this one, can influence people as well because in some way you represent the Community.
Well, I am really tired of justifying myself. I said it and repeat it again and again, I HAVE NOTHING AGAINST YOU. Do I have to make a triple report and sign it duly and make it official? It is funny how you'd rather believe rumours or people thinking things, even though the main concerned one --me-- tells you that it is not true. I am a direct person, if I had something against you, don't worry, I wouldn't spend my time typing and talking to you.
Angela_MJJ
Proud Member
When we receive several reported posts on a daily basis members clearly ask from us to do something about the tone in a thread. And like Ivy said it's normal to discuss personal issues through PM.
There is nothing wrong with having a debate.
BUMPER SNIPPET
Guests
I don't know, I am hallucinating I guess.
Well, if you think that things got personal between you and I why didn't you abide by that rule in the first place?
Well by saying that someone is on someone's back, wouldn't that be better said in a PM then?I'm just trying to figure out why rules don't seem to apply to EVERYONE...
Sophielo
Proud Member
If you have personal issues with each other discuss it via PM, don't air out your grievances with each other on this thread. This is about the album, not member's personal issues. And that does apply to everyone.
@bumper - again I have no intention or wish to answer any of your posts. I'm not even reading your posts anymore. I just don't want you wasting your time.
@arklove - this is what I was talking about when I said the other day moderators aren't being respected. they received multiple reports, they acted on it by a simple warning yet all they receive is this constant argument about their moderation and disrespect towards them. That's why this thread is problematic for MJJC. and don't you realize that you turn a single basic warning into a multiple posts back and forth discussion between you and multiple moderators?
@arklove - this is what I was talking about when I said the other day moderators aren't being respected. they received multiple reports, they acted on it by a simple warning yet all they receive is this constant argument about their moderation and disrespect towards them. That's why this thread is problematic for MJJC. and don't you realize that you turn a single basic warning into a multiple posts back and forth discussion between you and multiple moderators?
BUMPER SNIPPET
Guests
Where has love gone...?
Ok....I was commenting on the fact that you said Bumper was on your back...Yet, he gets the warning for not taking personal issues to PM? Am I the only one confused here....? That's what I meant when I said the rules don't seem to apply to everyone....but whatever...say what u will...
I told him that I didn't want to answer his posts and mentioned my unhappiness with his posts in a very short post - my post wasn't as a moderator (as I'm not a moderator on this thread but a member)
Yet he responded in a detailed, long and personal post also totally rejecting my unhappiness and not showing any empathy or understanding
It got reported by other people
A mod stepped in and asked him to take it to pm and not be on my back (as his attitude was getting reported and as I complained about it before)
he even after that continued to addressing his posts to me.
it's not having a personal issue, we all have personal issues and it's written on to forums- and it's fine to an extent. it's the length that some people go to keep it going. it's when someone says "your posts feel like you are always on my back" and a staff comes in and asks you to stop you still continue to respond to them in essay format.
can we close this issue now? and I'm sure that Bumper doesn't need a lawyer to defend himself. and also this friends ganging up others also cause it feel like people are on your back.
and with that I'm out. I have a lot more important stuff to focus on.
BUMPER SNIPPET
Guests
I'll be damned! I am on no one's back! My 19-month-old kid has just entered the hospital to the anti-poison center in emergency! Do you really think I have my mind set on getting on anyone's back???? I don't care! All I care is my kid right now, and I am simplyt discussing Michael Jackson's voice on this board.
did you think this back and forth with 3 moderators discussing the reasoning of moderation was necessary? To me it felt like making a mountain for a molehill and I felt like I can focus on other stuff. I'm sorry if it offended you.
I hope your kid is okay and I wish a speedy recovery and please keep us updated. As far as I'm concerned this issue is closed - and it was closed since last night and this rehashing was unnecessary and not my idea.
Lucilla
Proud Member
Sending all my prayers Bumper, I hope he recovers quickly.
I am going to say this about this thread,
Gaz came in here a while back and said that this thread was not going to be monitored heavily and that basically members in this thread were on their own to discuss what they could. This was a thread expecting members to show decorum to one another without heavy mod interference. If a member cannot handle that, and feels as if the thread is getting too tough for them to read, I'm sorry, but maybe you should just not read this thread.
This thread is for heavy debate from passionate people on both sides. If we call this the Bumper/Ivy thread, on many occasions it has been the Korgnex/Pentum thread. It has been the Sam/1,2,3,4,5 thread. It is a thread that constantly gets dominated by whomever presents themselves as the lead. People do not have to engage in dialogue if they do not want to. When Ivy felt it was enough and felt she had explained herself enough, she chose not to continue a dialogue with a particular member. Well within her right.
I don't know if any of you have ever been on a debate team, but people go hard. People will question anything a person has said and will use any semblance of anything not being clear and call a person out on it. That person can choose to respond or not. The point is, when a person is trying to make a person clarify their point of view, and keeps on them until they do, they are not on a person's back and they need not take that to PM. They are debating and are well within the limits of this thread. And, as long as the two are willing to engage in this they are allowed to continue, so there is no need to report it.
Lastly, we as moderators get so much flack on this board for not yielding to the whims of every person here. We don't make decisions lightly and we always try to do what is in the best interests of the members. That includes Gaz, Ivy, Qbee, Stacey, Angela, Sophie, all of us. If you have a problem with moderation, it would be best to PM that concern and maybe offer your POV or at least try to get some understanding for why things were decided in a certain way. We're not here to vex members. But we are also not here to be constantly derided. This is just a general statement.
Thank you.
Gaz came in here a while back and said that this thread was not going to be monitored heavily and that basically members in this thread were on their own to discuss what they could. This was a thread expecting members to show decorum to one another without heavy mod interference. If a member cannot handle that, and feels as if the thread is getting too tough for them to read, I'm sorry, but maybe you should just not read this thread.
This thread is for heavy debate from passionate people on both sides. If we call this the Bumper/Ivy thread, on many occasions it has been the Korgnex/Pentum thread. It has been the Sam/1,2,3,4,5 thread. It is a thread that constantly gets dominated by whomever presents themselves as the lead. People do not have to engage in dialogue if they do not want to. When Ivy felt it was enough and felt she had explained herself enough, she chose not to continue a dialogue with a particular member. Well within her right.
I don't know if any of you have ever been on a debate team, but people go hard. People will question anything a person has said and will use any semblance of anything not being clear and call a person out on it. That person can choose to respond or not. The point is, when a person is trying to make a person clarify their point of view, and keeps on them until they do, they are not on a person's back and they need not take that to PM. They are debating and are well within the limits of this thread. And, as long as the two are willing to engage in this they are allowed to continue, so there is no need to report it.
Lastly, we as moderators get so much flack on this board for not yielding to the whims of every person here. We don't make decisions lightly and we always try to do what is in the best interests of the members. That includes Gaz, Ivy, Qbee, Stacey, Angela, Sophie, all of us. If you have a problem with moderation, it would be best to PM that concern and maybe offer your POV or at least try to get some understanding for why things were decided in a certain way. We're not here to vex members. But we are also not here to be constantly derided. This is just a general statement.
Thank you.
I really hope he's ok!! I'm so sorry to hear that!