Michael - The Great Album Debate

[ivy]

John McClain and Jackie Jackson said it from the day 1 that the songs are fake. McClain is not anybody's bitc***.

Jackie never said the songs are fake. He just said there were some songs they didn't want it to be on the album. That doesn't mean fake.

A lot of you have been asking me about this….
My friend John McClain (co-executor) and I have insisted for many weeks to have certain tracks removed from Michael’s new album.
Unfortunately, our concerns were not taken seriously

Jackie nicely points out that he's the co-executor. that means he has equal decision power why not use it?

First Branca does not have any proof. If he had it he would certainly show it.

they have the expert reports and when asked they refused to give it saying it is "proprietary information". so perhaps it's best to not talk about what Branca have or doesn't have and what he will do or won't do.

 

[StellaJackson]

Not quite sure how people here are able to know what was said in a private conversation but it's none of the things being said. And John Branca didn't lie to me because he never said the songs ARE Michael.

 

[shelly_webster]

What did he said?

 

[ivy]

Not quite sure how people here are able to know what was said in a private conversation but it's none of the things being said. And John Branca didn't lie to me because he never said the songs ARE Michael.

none of us have a clear idea of what he said and that's why you are seeing multiple different interpretations. I have seen everything from he thinks the songs are MJ to he apologized the songs are fake and everything in between.

 

[kreen]

Not quite sure how people here are able to know what was said in a private conversation but it's none of the things being said. And John Branca didn't lie to me because he never said the songs ARE Michael.

The fact you're reticent to tell us what he said means he didn't support your point of view; otherwise we wouldn't have to insist.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Wait a minute here. Are you saying that Branca KNOWS the songs are fake and won't admit it because he's too proud, or are you saying that he still wrongly thinks they are real?

If he knows then it has nothing to do with pride but with business. He's not gonna shoot himself twice in his own foot.

they have the expert reports and when asked they refused to give it saying it is "proprietary information". so perhaps it's best to not talk about what Branca have or doesn't have and what he will do or won't do.

The expert reports ARE NOT a proof, it's just an asset card to defend himself in court in case he's attacked. And as long as he doesn't show it, if he has it, I'll be saying that he has no proof whatsoever. If he had such a strong proof he hopefully wouldn't let the MJ fanbase create such a rift.

By the way, did you see that expert report? Did he show you? If not how do you know for sure he has it and why defending him when he didn't show it to you instead of questioning why he doesn't show the fans the proof he has got. This is not Branca forum, but MJ forum. We should defend MJ's interests and legacy here, not some businessmen's mess.

 

[OnirMJ]

Jackie never said the songs are fake. He just said there were some songs they didn't want it to be on the album. That doesn't mean fake.

A lot of you have been asking me about this….
My friend John McClain (co-executor) and I have insisted for many weeks to have certain tracks removed from Michael’s new album.
Unfortunately, our concerns were not taken seriously

Jackie nicely points out that he's the co-executor. that means he has equal decision power why not use it?



they have the expert reports and when asked they refused to give it saying it is "proprietary information". so perhaps it's best to not talk about what Branca have or doesn't have and what he will do or won't do.

Sony has 50% decision power and The Estate has 50%. John Branca was pro Cascio songs, John McClain was against them. That is 75% over 25%. Jackie didn't say "fake" but that's what he meant and you know it.

 

[144000]

If John Branca is pro Cascio...indeed...Svengali never ceases...

 

[elapentela]

you answered your own question, possibly, in the last line of your paragraph.
My question to you. Are you interested in buying a copy of a Cascio..album..or are you trying to campaign to force others to do so?

I'm extremely interested in buying all songs MJ recorded in Cascio's home. I'm absolutely positive that at least 2 mil. other people would purchase the original disk with those songs. I don't have time for Internet leaks. I also don't believe that there is more than one thousand fans who are aware and really care about the controversy. I think that less than thousand believe that "Cascio's songs" are fake. Some fans are just more vocal and have a lot of spare time. As I did mention before I believe MJ sings on all 3 released songs and I love KYHU very much. I play Michael album in my car very often and I'm not bored yet. I gave more than 10 "Michael" CDs for Christmas and everybody who got it loves the album. Some of my kids friends are in their twenties and became hard fans after Michael album.

I did promised I will elaborate some of my posts on Wednesday. I don't remember if it was last week or 2 week ago. The time run too fast. As much as I would love to have fun on MJ web side, usually I'm just too busy for it.

Let's start with the answer about the meeting in Las Vegas and Ireland. Met MJ in Las Vegas twice when he was the guest of the owners of Palm Hotel and was recording in their studio. I think it was 2008. In Ireland it was some event MJ was attending or planning to attend. I know his security worked with my people at that time.

Regarding the conversations about Eddie Cascio (which Stella Jackson doesn't believe MJ would have with a fan). Yes I'm a fan. There is a book in my original country which state I'm the biggest Michael Jackson fan and moved to USA to be closer to him. I have American passport for many years now and I can "blame" MJ's fandom for this. However I'm not so sure if I'm regular fan. When being a fan I also was studying a journalism in college and working as music journalist for national media (tv, radio, prints in magazines and newspapers) in communistic country. Before MJ became my main "braking news" stories I needed other unique subjects to get the jobs. In this business you needed the connections the others don't have. Regarding MJs "connections" I think it helped the request from the unique country (at least for Michael's management) through American Embassy. The response was great.
Especially from Frank DiLeo. I was getting all promotional staff and many exclusives which were used in many 1-3 hrs specials on national radio and Tv (remember at this time communistic government owned all the media and sometimes my bosses complained against an American star being promoted so often). Anyway I've got an opportunity to see Victory Tour very close behind the scene where I met MJ the first time. Then in Europe I met him several times during Bad tour and after tour with little help of his management I relocated to US. Still was "covering" the History Tour for some maid but mostly worked in different capacity. Had an opportunity to stay in the same hotels with MJ, Debbie Rowe (in Amsterdam) and Cascio family. Michael was extremely close with Cascios and spent really a lot of time with them ( in opposite to his brothers and family during Victory Tour). Me and some other people who were around them thought they were family. Strange but true. They talk on the phone with Frank and Eddie and of course it was always a conversation about Eddie playing piano and being very talented. They talked on the phone when business people and friends were present. At that time I even saw MJ drinking vine too and he was "good" in this. So of course when I was meeting Michael on different occasions it was natural to ask about Cascios (all of them). During the History Tour MJ was traveling mostly with Dominick, Connie and 3 youngest but Frank and Eddie visit them few times and talk on the phone often.

At the time the biggest surprise was Mj accepting the "royal" stroller from owner of the biggest toy store in the country when he said he needs it and some people still thought that he got back with Lisa Marie and didn't expected at all that it was Debbie who was pregnant with his child. She was around but I don't think anyone knew who she was except security and Klein who was visiting too.

The next paragraph is for Jesta. You are very mistaken if you think Eddie's goal was to became famous producer. I think one of the main reasons why MJ was so close with Cascios is them hiding from the media as much as possible. They have their own business and Michael did mention that Eddie loves music but he loves his privacy more so he even didn't treat his music business so seriously.

And the last think regarding the proof Michael recording the controversial songs. I don't think Michael would be friend with Cascios and lived in their house if they would "collect" his trash and videotape him too much. I'm sure Eddie has many "proofs" which one day homely he will release with the help of the MJ's heirs as executors. Even if John Branca would like to keep his word to Michael's fans, still one day he will have to retire. So the release all Cascio's songs won't be his "legacy".

 

[144000]

Ok, so far you said you gave ten Cascio albums as Christmas presents. i can't help but ask, why didn't they buy them, themselves, per your recommendation?

Let's face it..the old adage...you give a Christmas present, the recipient usually feels obligated to love it...cuz they got it for free. How they really feel about it, may be another matter.

 

[Paw]

Thank you elapentela for the post.
Let me say it again in case some fans forget it easily. This controversy is NEVER really about the voice to the parties involved. Some people said certain song should not be included in the album didn't mean they believed it was fake. You guys put a bunch of people on doubter's side while they are actually not.

 

[ivy]

The expert reports ARE NOT a proof, it's just an asset card to defend himself in court in case he's attacked. And as long as he doesn't show it, if he has it, I'll be saying that he has no proof whatsoever. If he had such a strong proof he hopefully wouldn't let the MJ fanbase create such a rift.

By the way, did you see that expert report? Did he show you? If not how do you know for sure he has it and why defending him when he didn't show it to you instead of questioning why he doesn't show the fans the proof he has got. This is not Branca forum, but MJ forum. We should defend MJ's interests and legacy here, not some businessmen's mess.

That's not the point and you know it. You or I don't know Branca. None of us can say what he will do or will not do. As you so nicely mentioned none of us also know what he have or doesn't have.

so my point is not to make such definitive statements with words such as "any" or "certainly" when all of us clearly lack the information and closeness to Branca.

"First Branca does not have any proof. If he had it he would certainly show it."

------------

Edited to add

Actually when you look to other stuff such as there has been a group of fans that has even protested Branca with bullhorns in public events claiming that he was fired in 2003 and never rehired, he didn't feel compelled to make his rehiring contract public even though he had filed that document with the court. He doesn't seem to be person in a need to prove himself and honestly his proof - the hiring letter example- mattered in a court of law. As the probate judge determined he's to be executor the public or fan opinion of whether he should be or not an executor didn't matter in the grand scheme of things.

 

[elapentela]

Ok, so far you said you gave ten Cascio albums as Christmas presents. i can't help but ask, why didn't they buy them, themselves, per your recommendation?

Let's face it..the old adage...you give a Christmas present, the recipient usually feels obligated to love it...cuz they got it for free. How they really feel about it, may be another matter.

It's not like that. When "Michael" album was released I shopped in Best Buy. I don't work as close with music business as I used to so I don't expect promotional staff (sometimes it's still coming) for free and buy things for home and as gifts. I give MJ's records as gifts pretty often. When buying "Michael" I was thinking to give all the copies to people my age. In the end most of them finished in the hands 18-23 years old college students, who I can see follow MJ on Facebook now. I don't think anyone of them payed close attention to him before. All of them were playing and singing classical and jazz music in high school plus doing very serious theatre but not Michael Jackson. You never know when someone, especially young people will become the new fans.

 

[Aniram]

There are a lot of other songs to enjoy on the Michael album.. Could it be they love Hold My Hand, Hollywood Tonight, Best Of Joy, Behind The Mask, Another Day, etc.?

 

[144000]

There are a lot of other songs to enjoy on the Michael album.. Could it be they love Hold My Hand, Hollywood Tonight, Best Of Joy, Behind The Mask, Another Day, etc.?

i don't agree with critics much, but some of them had said that Hold My Hand was overproduced. On the Michael album, it is.
I have a copy of the version that Michael last touched in 2007-8. That's the great version. And, it's on Youtube. I did not buy the 'Michael' album. Only the first minute of Another Day is good. I actually have that, and don't have the full song. Again, Michael's part in it ended(production-wise) at that one minute point.

 

[Aniram]

I only really listen to Best Of Joy off the album, anymore. That song, in fact, is my most listened to song over the past few years. It's a huge part of my life. I love that song.

Hold My Hand is a good song, I like both versions very much but I only turn it on occasionally. I actually like One More Chance more. Hollywood Tonight was a popular song for me for a while, but I find it's lost it's strength a bit. I still enjoy it, it's just not as frequent.

I really am currently loving Al Capone, I'm So Blue, Abortion Papers, Free and Don't Be Messin' Round.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

I'm extremely interested in buying all songs MJ recorded in Cascio's home. I'm absolutely positive that at least 2 mil. other people would purchase the original disk with those songs. I don't have time for Internet leaks. I also don't believe that there is more than one thousand fans who are aware and really care about the controversy. I think that less than thousand believe that "Cascio's songs" are fake. Some fans are just more vocal and have a lot of spare time. As I did mention before I believe MJ sings on all 3 released songs and I love KYHU very much. I play Michael album in my car very often and I'm not bored yet. I gave more than 10 "Michael" CDs for Christmas and everybody who got it loves the album. Some of my kids friends are in their twenties and became hard fans after Michael album.

I did promised I will elaborate some of my posts on Wednesday. I don't remember if it was last week or 2 week ago. The time run too fast. As much as I would love to have fun on MJ web side, usually I'm just too busy for it.

Let's start with the answer about the meeting in Las Vegas and Ireland. Met MJ in Las Vegas twice when he was the guest of the owners of Palm Hotel and was recording in their studio. I think it was 2008. In Ireland it was some event MJ was attending or planning to attend. I know his security worked with my people at that time.

Regarding the conversations about Eddie Cascio (which Stella Jackson doesn't believe MJ would have with a fan). Yes I'm a fan. There is a book in my original country which state I'm the biggest Michael Jackson fan and moved to USA to be closer to him. I have American passport for many years now and I can "blame" MJ's fandom for this. However I'm not so sure if I'm regular fan. When being a fan I also was studying a journalism in college and working as music journalist for national media (tv, radio, prints in magazines and newspapers) in communistic country. Before MJ became my main "braking news" stories I needed other unique subjects to get the jobs. In this business you needed the connections the others don't have. Regarding MJs "connections" I think it helped the request from the unique country (at least for Michael's management) through American Embassy. The response was great.
Especially from Frank DiLeo. I was getting all promotional staff and many exclusives which were used in many 1-3 hrs specials on national radio and Tv (remember at this time communistic government owned all the media and sometimes my bosses complained against an American star being promoted so often). Anyway I've got an opportunity to see Victory Tour very close behind the scene where I met MJ the first time. Then in Europe I met him several times during Bad tour and after tour with little help of his management I relocated to US. Still was "covering" the History Tour for some maid but mostly worked in different capacity. Had an opportunity to stay in the same hotels with MJ, Debbie Rowe (in Amsterdam) and Cascio family. Michael was extremely close with Cascios and spent really a lot of time with them ( in opposite to his brothers and family during Victory Tour). Me and some other people who were around them thought they were family. Strange but true. They talk on the phone with Frank and Eddie and of course it was always a conversation about Eddie playing piano and being very talented. They talked on the phone when business people and friends were present. At that time I even saw MJ drinking vine too and he was "good" in this. So of course when I was meeting Michael on different occasions it was natural to ask about Cascios (all of them). During the History Tour MJ was traveling mostly with Dominick, Connie and 3 youngest but Frank and Eddie visit them few times and talk on the phone often.

At the time the biggest surprise was Mj accepting the "royal" stroller from owner of the biggest toy store in the country when he said he needs it and some people still thought that he got back with Lisa Marie and didn't expected at all that it was Debbie who was pregnant with his child. She was around but I don't think anyone knew who she was except security and Klein who was visiting too.

The next paragraph is for Jesta. You are very mistaken if you think Eddie's goal was to became famous producer. I think one of the main reasons why MJ was so close with Cascios is them hiding from the media as much as possible. They have their own business and Michael did mention that Eddie loves music but he loves his privacy more so he even didn't treat his music business so seriously.

And the last think regarding the proof Michael recording the controversial songs. I don't think Michael would be friend with Cascios and lived in their house if they would "collect" his trash and videotape him too much. I'm sure Eddie has many "proofs" which one day homely he will release with the help of the MJ's heirs as executors. Even if John Branca would like to keep his word to Michael's fans, still one day he will have to retire. So the release all Cascio's songs won't be his "legacy".

I have strong doubts you studied journalism in an American college.

Also, there is not a single line in this post that proofs MJ recorded anything with Eddie. MJ complementing Eddie doesn't mean he recorded with him. MJ adored James Brown, I am pretty sure, at least ten times more than Eddie and never recorded a single song with him, yet with Eddie he would record 12 of them? On top of that Eddie had twice the opportunity to show that proof you are evoking -once on OPrah, once on the documentary. He failed to do so without any apparent reason. So hoping that Eddie will show the proof in the future is sensless and even stupid by now. He does NOT have any proof except the one that he fabricated those frankensteinesque songs in his private laboratory that he calls Angelikson studio.

That's not the point and you know it. You or I don't know Branca. None of us can say what he will do or will not do. As you so nicely mentioned none of us also know what he have or doesn't have.

The whole point IS MJ's legacy. Releasing the controversial songs and not showing the proof when the proof exists is plain stupid. But I don't believe that Branca is stupid, so that's why I have more reasons to believe that he has not a single proof and that he got fooled. He's not going to admit that, because he's not stupid as I mentioned.

so my point is not to make such definitive statements with words such as "any" or "certainly" when all of us clearly lack the information and closeness to Branca.

"First Branca does not have any proof. If he had it he would certainly show it."

You completely misunderstood the words "any" and "certainly". First of all I was expressing my opinion, secondly "any" is used with negative and interrogative sentences and "certainly" is used as a logical conclusion in an opinion just like "must". For example: "His car is in front of his house. He must be at home." By using the strong modal "must" I didn't say "he is obliged to be at home, but "there is a strong probability that he's at home." The same goes for the word "certainly" = "strong prabability" in an opinion.

------------

Edited to add

Actually when you look to other stuff such as there has been a group of fans that has even protested Branca with bullhorns in public events claiming that he was fired in 2003 and never rehired, he didn't feel compelled to make his rehiring contract public even though he had filed that document with the court. He doesn't seem to be person in a need to prove himself and honestly his proof - the hiring letter example- mattered in a court of law. As the probate judge determined he's to be executor the public or fan opinion of whether he should be or not an executor didn't matter in the grand scheme of things.

If I were a cat I would react like this to your pro-Branca posts:

What is upsetting is that you don't actually seem to question at all, not once, Branca's or anyone's official side like Eddie's or SONY's deliberate behavior to hold back the "proof" they would have. MJ's legacy is hurt, fanbase is in agony and you in defense find thousand and one reasons why they don't release the proof and why it is logical -- according to your standards -- not to release them to the fan community.

I am sorry, but there is no one single logical reason, not a tiny one, not to release the proof if they have it. By releasing that proof, there is no way that it could harm anyone, except if either there is something fishy going around that they don't want us to know or that "proof" of theirs is as weak as chicken legs that they can barely use in court to cover their own asses.

I don't understand how can someone be pro-MJ and at the same time believe that they have the proof but not demand the proof to be shown to the fans in such a controversial quagmire.

 

[OnirMJ]

I'm extremely interested in buying all songs MJ recorded in Cascio's home. I'm absolutely positive that at least 2 mil. other people would purchase the original disk with those songs. I don't have time for Internet leaks. I also don't believe that there is more than one thousand fans who are aware and really care about the controversy. I think that less than thousand believe that "Cascio's songs" are fake. Some fans are just more vocal and have a lot of spare time. As I did mention before I believe MJ sings on all 3 released songs and I love KYHU very much. I play Michael album in my car very often and I'm not bored yet. I gave more than 10 "Michael" CDs for Christmas and everybody who got it loves the album. Some of my kids friends are in their twenties and became hard fans after Michael album.

I did promised I will elaborate some of my posts on Wednesday. I don't remember if it was last week or 2 week ago. The time run too fast. As much as I would love to have fun on MJ web side, usually I'm just too busy for it.

Let's start with the answer about the meeting in Las Vegas and Ireland. Met MJ in Las Vegas twice when he was the guest of the owners of Palm Hotel and was recording in their studio. I think it was 2008. In Ireland it was some event MJ was attending or planning to attend. I know his security worked with my people at that time.

Regarding the conversations about Eddie Cascio (which Stella Jackson doesn't believe MJ would have with a fan). Yes I'm a fan. There is a book in my original country which state I'm the biggest Michael Jackson fan and moved to USA to be closer to him. I have American passport for many years now and I can "blame" MJ's fandom for this. However I'm not so sure if I'm regular fan. When being a fan I also was studying a journalism in college and working as music journalist for national media (tv, radio, prints in magazines and newspapers) in communistic country. Before MJ became my main "braking news" stories I needed other unique subjects to get the jobs. In this business you needed the connections the others don't have. Regarding MJs "connections" I think it helped the request from the unique country (at least for Michael's management) through American Embassy. The response was great.
Especially from Frank DiLeo. I was getting all promotional staff and many exclusives which were used in many 1-3 hrs specials on national radio and Tv (remember at this time communistic government owned all the media and sometimes my bosses complained against an American star being promoted so often). Anyway I've got an opportunity to see Victory Tour very close behind the scene where I met MJ the first time. Then in Europe I met him several times during Bad tour and after tour with little help of his management I relocated to US. Still was "covering" the History Tour for some maid but mostly worked in different capacity. Had an opportunity to stay in the same hotels with MJ, Debbie Rowe (in Amsterdam) and Cascio family. Michael was extremely close with Cascios and spent really a lot of time with them ( in opposite to his brothers and family during Victory Tour). Me and some other people who were around them thought they were family. Strange but true. They talk on the phone with Frank and Eddie and of course it was always a conversation about Eddie playing piano and being very talented. They talked on the phone when business people and friends were present. At that time I even saw MJ drinking vine too and he was "good" in this. So of course when I was meeting Michael on different occasions it was natural to ask about Cascios (all of them). During the History Tour MJ was traveling mostly with Dominick, Connie and 3 youngest but Frank and Eddie visit them few times and talk on the phone often.

At the time the biggest surprise was Mj accepting the "royal" stroller from owner of the biggest toy store in the country when he said he needs it and some people still thought that he got back with Lisa Marie and didn't expected at all that it was Debbie who was pregnant with his child. She was around but I don't think anyone knew who she was except security and Klein who was visiting too.

The next paragraph is for Jesta. You are very mistaken if you think Eddie's goal was to became famous producer. I think one of the main reasons why MJ was so close with Cascios is them hiding from the media as much as possible. They have their own business and Michael did mention that Eddie loves music but he loves his privacy more so he even didn't treat his music business so seriously.

And the last think regarding the proof Michael recording the controversial songs. I don't think Michael would be friend with Cascios and lived in their house if they would "collect" his trash and videotape him too much. I'm sure Eddie has many "proofs" which one day homely he will release with the help of the MJ's heirs as executors. Even if John Branca would like to keep his word to Michael's fans, still one day he will have to retire. So the release all Cascio's songs won't be his "legacy".

1. 2 MIL people would buy Cascio recordings! Are you serious? 3MIL people bought Michael album and there were 7 real Michael Jackson songs. And then the controversy wasn't well-known or public yet. Many people bought the album or pre-ordered it before they even heard the controversy. Today people know that when they see Cascio, that that means fake.

2. Less than thousand believe that "Cascio's songs" are fake! Again are you serious, where do you live? Go on youtube, twitter or just google it. The vast majority of MJ fans (don't count just this thread or MJJC) and many regular people, non-fans believe that the tracks are fake.

3. When John Branca retires, the kids will be old enough to make decisions and to administer the Estate, and they know that the songs are fake, so you can be sure that they won't release them. So you can just pray that Branca release the tracks before he retires or Prince & Paris turn 21.

 

[elapentela]

There are a lot of other songs to enjoy on the Michael album.. Could it be they love Hold My Hand, Hollywood Tonight, Best Of Joy, Behind The Mask, Another Day, etc.?

Of course it could be. But so far no one ever mentioned that they think it's not Michael Jackson singing on some of the songs. Few of
of them are discussing MJ's craft all the time now. They are pretty artistic themselves, studying music performance, theatre or visual design. Since their Christmas gifts they purchased serious collection of MJ's staff and they are in touch with other Michael's fans.

 

[ivy]

What is upsetting is that you don't actually seem to question at all, not once, Branca's or anyone's official side like Eddie's or SONY's deliberate behavior to hold back the "proof" they would have. MJ's legacy is hurt, fanbase is in agony and you in defense find thousand and one reasons why they don't release the proof and why it is logical -- according to your standards -- not to release them to the fan community.

I am sorry, but there is no one single logical reason, not a tiny one, not to release the proof if they have it. By releasing that proof, there is no way that it could harm anyone, except if either there is something fishy going around that they don't want us to know or that "proof" of theirs is as weak as chicken legs that they can barely use in court to cover their own asses.

I don't understand how can someone be pro-MJ and at the same time believe that they have the proof but not demand the proof to be shown to the fans in such a controversial quagmire.

see this is the problem. Just because there's "no logical" reason for you that doesn't mean that I don't find their reasons logical. Just because you expect a certain way of behavior doesn't mean that I have to expect a certain way of behavior. so if you realize that not everyone is operating on your set of standards then you wouldn't write such negative things about their opinion.

for example while I was talking with Frank Cascio he named some people / fans and told me how badly such people treated him and his family. he told me that he wanted nothing to do with such people. Was he right? Yeah I think so. Not only I had seen such people curse his family - including even his mother and father , I had also received their hate and cursing just because of my opinion.

so you look to this and say "if there's fans asking question and if they have proof they have to show it. It's not logical not to show it" but I or someone else can look to it as "as these people have no respect whatsoever they want nothing to do with them, they would not even address them. It's logical".

so rather than attacking people for their opinion, perhaps it'll be best for you to realize that they might have a different approach to things. Every coin has two sides, don't forget that.

ps: I don't think Michael's legacy hurt btw. It's an exaggeration. He formed his legacy when alive. None of the songs - legit ot fake- released now will going to affect his legacy. Even the songs turn out to be fake, it'll be on the people that did it and not on Michael who is dead.

See? This also shows the different approaches. For you this event might be the "end of the world" as it hurt Michael's legacy. For me it might not be that significant as I believe nothing and I repeat nothing can hurt Michael's musical legacy.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

see this is the problem. Just because there's "no logical" reason for you that doesn't mean that I don't find their reasons logical. Just because you expect a certain way of behavior doesn't mean that I have to expect a certain way of behavior. so if you realize that not everyone is operating on your set of standards then you wouldn't write such negative things about their opinion.

for example while I was talking with Frank Cascio he named some people / fans and told me how badly such people treated him and his family. he told me that he wanted nothing to do with such people. Was he right? Yeah I think so. Not only I had seen such people curse his family - including even his mother and father , I had also received their hate and cursing just because of my opinion.

so you look to this and say "if there's fans asking question and if they have proof they have to show it. It's not logical not to show it" but I or someone else can look to it as "as these people have no respect whatsoever they want nothing to do with them, they would not even address them. It's logical".

so rather than attacking people for their opinion, perhaps it'll be best for you to realize that they might have a different approach to things. Every coin has two sides, don't forget that.

ps: I don't think Michael's legacy hurt btw. It's an exaggeration. He formed his legacy when alive. None of the songs - legit ot fake- released now will going to affect his legacy. Even the songs turn out to be fake, it'll be on the people that did it and not on Michael who is dead.

See? This also shows the different approaches. For you this event might be the "end of the world" as it hurt Michael's legacy. For me it might not be that significant as I believe nothing and I repeat nothing can hurt Michael's musical legacy.

Oh, the Cascio and the Estate create this very mess and then I have to show compassion and understanding towards the very ones who refuse to show the proofs? I think you're in the wrong forum to defend them.

Again, it has nothing to do with my logic, but with THE logic. I am repeating showing the proof that it is MJ singing on those tracks CANNOT hurt anyone. It is as simple as showing the photographs of the Earth to show that the Earth is round and not flat.

The only logical reason not to show the "proof" is either being sick pervert in watching or -not caring about- MJ fan community tearing apart or being afraid of showing something they don't want us to know.

Besides, what is sick is defending the zillion of theories why they don't show the "proof" when you actually never saw the proof, which indicates that instead of questiong their actions you take their word as Gospel and say "amen" to all what they tell you.

 

[ivy]

Bumper - cool the personal attack of sentences of "you" . I'm not here for that, I'm not here to please you, I'm not here to fit your standards. I DID ask Estate for the expert reports and I spent months in talking to Cascio's trying to get Eddie to do a Q&A, I reached out to Malachi's manager as you all know. I included questions about Cascio tracks in Q&A's with Taj and Jermaine Jackson. I did my part in trying to get more information for the fans especially the doubters, my conscience is clear. I also wrote that for a long time I would have preferred more transparency from the parties involved. Just because I happen to have a little empathy and say "let's try to look this from other person's perspective" doesn't make me a bad person or whatever you'd like to call it. Actually you are more likely to open doors with empathy, compassion, understanding rather than attacks, accusations and curses. And honestly I tune you out when you start writing negative stuff and accusations in a personal way aimed at me.

 

[elapentela]

1. 2 MIL people would buy Cascio recordings! Are you serious? 3MIL people bought Michael album and there were 7 real Michael Jackson songs. And then the controversy wasn't well-known or public yet. Many people bought the album or pre-ordered it before they even heard the controversy. Today people know that when they see Cascio, that that means fake.

2. Less than thousand believe that "Cascio's songs" are fake! Again are you serious, where do you live? Go on youtube, twitter or just google it. The vast majority of MJ fans (don't count just this thread or MJJC) and many regular people, non-fans believe that the tracks are fake.

3. When John Branca retires, the kids will be old enough to make decisions and to administer the Estate, and they know that the songs are fake, so you can be sure that they won't release them. So you can just pray that Branca release the tracks before he retires or Prince & Paris turn 21.

And how many copies of Immortal... being sold? There was no controversy about it.

I'm going to repeat again. The majority of MJ's fans who spend the money for the physical products
don't have too much time for going in circle on the websites.

You will hear what you want to hear, some people will follow you and some people will follow me. And I'm positive it's Michael singing. It's depends on who's opinion the followers will chose. So I don't believe that many regular people, non-fans believe that the tracks are fake.

I believe that when the kids will be old enough they will be doing the research on their own what their father was doing in the NJ home when they were in school or in bed. He didn't walk around or watched tv too much. It's not his style. It's logical that being a musician he would use the little
equipment available to him on the spot and the space he would used it and record. He always was grooming Eddie for working with him in the studio so it's no surprise that he did it when he had an opportunity. Did he plan to release it without polishing it. Never ever. But unfortunately he died. And it was Frank DiLeo who took care of all the music staff which was going to be finish in London. The recordings in the Cascios house were no secrets at all for many people. And it wasn't private anymore. I don't think you should to blame Eddie for selling Michael.

I also would not criticize Eddie for being silent. The Cascio family was around Michael during the last 20 years more than any Jackson family member excluding of course MJ's children. However Michael's children were younger and the children are more resilient. They will probably really realize his absent later in life. Cascios children for sure understood more what really happened because they were older. And how people suffer when they loose someone close to them depends on the level of their personal sensibility. And Eddie always was being seen as the most sensible one. He was never interested in looking for publicity. Why he should do now? It's seems he doesn't feel he needs fans applause. I'm sure he will talk when he will feel like doing it. And it's good that he can focus on his own family now. It's probably a good therapy for him.

 

[WildStyle]

I know he can only give facts that pertain to what he was involved in doing, which, while interesting, don't provide definitive proof either way. The one thing we can confirm from him is that the tracks he worked on did not contain the vocals we hear now. As to why, he has offered his opinion. He also has offered his opinion on things like the vibrato. There are other people who have different opinions as to the cause of this. And it would be interesting to hear his opinion on that. It's a shame he can't explain any of the other issues but that's not surprsing. The reason people have consistently identified Jason for the last two years is because the songs sound exactly like him. You talk about unscientific and misleading, while failing to acknowledge that there is not one single piece of evidence to back up your position that it's Michael on the songs. This whole thing has nothing to do with emotions or gut feelings but what people hear. Nobody here wants to be in a position where we don't hear Michael on the tracks. But we don't hear him. I know it's easier for you to label people as "crazy fans" but you are completely missing the point. If you want to talk about gut feelings then that is all you have.

As for suggesting that it's the fans who got us in this mess in the first place then it's clear you simply don't understand this issue. What got us in this mess is the fact that a bunch of songs were sold for ridiculous amounts of money that the seller claimed were the work of Michael Jackson yet was unable to back up his story when it was pointed out by fans, family and producers that the songs don't sound like Michael. As soon as I heard Breaking News, without any foreknowledge of the controversy, I instantly recognised the voice of Jason Malachii. Let's not forget that JM was identified as the possible vocalist almost a month before Breaking News was streamed or heard by fans. So don't try to shift the blame on to the fans because that's really rather ridiculous.

The people (Cascio/Porte) who sold these songs to Sony have failed to provide one scrap of proof that Michael ever recorded them despite the fact that a great many fans, his own children and previous people who have worked with him state that they do not recognise the voice as being that of Michael Jackson.

As for Jason Malachi, what you have to understand is this. Let's say we had never heard of the guy. He'd never released any songs. The Cascio tracks come out and the reaction is still going to be the same. They don't sound like Mj. They sound like an impersonator. The only difference is that people would be trying to figure out who that impersonator was. With Jason, we have a match in the voice. It isn't like people just chose him at random because he is an impersonator. His voice is instantly recognisable on the songs. The tone, accent, vibrato, pornounciation are all identical to his. Now if you believe it is not him singing then that's fine but all we ask is an explanation for those issues. In two years not one has been given. If it's not Jason then those "Jasonisms" must be the result of something else. It certainly isn't because they are guide vocals or demo vocals because we have a wealth of others to compare them to. It isn't Michael's age or wellbeing because we have other recordings from that era including This Is It rehersals where he sounds just like himself despite being tired and not singing full out. It isn't the studio because we have WBSS 08 vocals recorded there which sound fine and Michael never had any of those issues when singing while out and about or down the phone. Those issues are only present on the Cascio tracks. So what is the explanation and can evidence and examples be provided? Jason was more than happy to speak out and clear up previous confusion about his own songs but he refuses to engage in any way over this issue, despite the damage that it's done him and his idol. Even his own producer publicly stated that he recognises Jason on these songs as he recorded him for years. He received no financial gain from saying that. He still stands by that today because he was contacted about it for something. All of this is before we even get in to the many other issues, such as the changing stories, lack of one single outtake (12 tracks and not one time where they picked up Michael speaking during the recording process? Come on.) You can take any Mj recording, be it a demo, album song, live vocal and put it against one from another era and find multiple matches in sound and technique yet this cannot be done with the Cascio tracks. Not to mention that Michael's recording habits, which can be found all over every other recording, are completely absent. Not one finger snap, clap or hiccup. Yet we can put these songs against any Jason track and the matches are there. The snorts. The totally different pronounciation. The uncontrolled vibrato. The way in which the end of lines go "down" because he can't hold the note. All only on Cascio and only on Jason tracks. And this is someone singing full out. Listen to Water. Since when did Michael have to strain himself like that just to lay down a supposed guide vocal? All of these issues are on the versions that were collected from Eddie Cascio on July 10th 2010, meaning they originate from the Cascio end, so that is where the answers lie, hence people quite rightly asking Eddie for answers. When you couple all of this together, along with the absolute lack of proof, then it is only logical to have serious concerns and ask if this is an impersonator who laid down vocals with Eddie Cascio following Michael's death, with Jason Malachi being the most likely candidate.

Amongst all of this talk, STILL nobody can explain away these crucial issues.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Bumper - cool the personal attack of sentences of "you" . I'm not here for that, I'm not here to please you, I'm not here to fit your standards. I DID ask Estate for the expert reports and I spent months in talking to Cascio's trying to get Eddie to do a Q&A, I reached out to Malachi's manager as you all know. I included questions about Cascio tracks in Q&A's with Taj and Jermaine Jackson. I did my part in trying to get more information for the fans especially the doubters, my conscience is clear. I also wrote that for a long time I would have preferred more transparency from the parties involved. Just because I happen to have a little empathy and say "let's try to look this from other person's perspective" doesn't make me a bad person or whatever you'd like to call it. Actually you are more likely to open doors with empathy, compassion, understanding rather than attacks, accusations and curses. And honestly I tune you out when you start writing negative stuff and accusations in a personal way aimed at me.

And the moon is made of cheese. Your empathy is on the wrong side of the barrier -- the opposite of MJ's legacy!

We have an administrator on a MJJ forum who has empathy for people creating the mess at Michael's expenses, undermining the impact of the release of those three songs, some members calling MJ a wreck and not caring about why the proof isn't shown, and the list goes down.

Am I on a MJ fan forum? What is this?

Where is the unity of MJ's fans to clearly demand those proofs to the Estate instead of beating around the bush with them and having empathy (what for???). They released those tracks and created a huge mess, the onus is on them to show those proofs.

It's as simple as this: if they have the proof, they must show it to us. If they don't have the proof, then they must clearly tell us that they don't have it.

But I suspect that the only proof they do have are some reports with which they can defend their own asses why they were led to believe that it is MJ singing, which in reality isn't a proof, but just a cover for their asses in case they are attacked.

Ivy, keep on having empathy with the ones who admitted themselves they made a massive mistake, yet are doing absolutely nothing to repair that mistake.

 

[kreen]

Regarding some of the points that have been raised in the previous posts:

1- All of us need to realize that, even though this debate is huge for us, and we’ve spent countless hours talking and thinking and caring about the Cascio tracks, we’re only a relatively small group of people who even care about this. In my own personal group of friends, I know 3 people who are MJ fans, in the sense that they buy his albums when they come out. They don’t hang out on these forums: they have a life. And to them, the controversy about the Cascio tracks lasted a few days, while it was in the mainstream media. And they no longer even think about it: to them, all 10 songs on the “Michael” album are MJ songs. They would look at us, for still debating this, as a bunch of crazies who give MJ fans a bad name; they’d actually distance themselves from us.

So the point is that there are MJ fans beyond the hard-core nucleus we here represent. In that sense, if all 12 Cascio tracks came out tomorrow morning on a Sony CD, a lot of us here wouldn’t buy it, but a lot of other people would, and the mainstream media – the music press, etc. – would simply refer to it as a new Michael Jackson CD, and it would be sold as such, and a lot of people would buy it as such.

2- Regarding the proof Branca/the Estate/the Cascios have. First, we have to realize that no matter what proof they produced, the doubters would… doubt it! Reports from audio forensic experts? Those are not trustworthy, and Sony could have bought them to lie! Pictures of MJ in the Cascio studio? They could date from the WBSS sessions! Worktapes of MJ in the Cascio studio talking about the songs? That could be an impostor also : they faked the actual songs, why wouldn’t they fake the sessions? Outtakes of MJ singing “Breaking News”? Ok, maybe he did sing it once in the studio, but that’s not the vocals they used on the actual CD : those are fake!

Second, we tend here to overestimate our importance. As far as the Estate/Sony is concerned, the only thing that matters is the legal/financial aspect. From a legal standpoint, nobody has sued anyone else – the Jacksons notably didn’t – which means that whatever they have or don’t have in terms of proof, they’re covered from that side.

And from a financial point of view, what matters is whether reviving the controversy now by producing proof or trying to convince doubters helps them make money or not. And they must have decided that either the doubters are too few in number, or that they still buy everything MJ-related anyway (witness the doubters who bought the Immortal CD and thus gave some of their money to Cascio/Porte), or that reviving the controversy in the mainstream media will hurt the MJ brand, so they don’t care.

Bottom line is: the Cascio controversy is not as important to Branca/McClain as it is to us. To them, we’re probably lovable weirdos: you gotta love those hardcore MJ fans, even if they can be a little bit cuckoo from time to time, what with all their conspiracy theories and all.

3- Regarding Eddie Cascio himself, if I were him, certainly I would be all over the Internet trying to prove the doubters wrong. But that’s my confrontational nature, and the fact I love a good debate. Maybe he’s not that kind of person. But most probably, it all comes down again to the legal aspects. My guess is he’s been told by his lawyer not to say anything publicly, because if anybody ever sues, all of that could come back and hurt him in court (which, as you all know, doesn’t imply guilt in any way: even innocent people are given that advice. MJ himself was told by his lawyer not to do the 60 Minutes interview in 2005).

 

[kreen]

It's as simple as this: if they have the proof, they must show it to us. If they don't have the proof, then they must clearly tell us that they don't have it.
.

How about asking Stella to tell us that Branca told her? Talk about withholding proof!

 

[Aniram]

In my own personal group of friends, I know 3 people who are MJ fans, in the sense that they buy his albums when they come out. They don’t hang out on these forums: they have a life. And to them, the controversy about the Cascio tracks lasted a few days, while it was in the mainstream media. And they no longer even think about it: to them, all 10 songs on the “Michael” album are MJ songs. They would look at us, for still debating this, as a bunch of crazies who give MJ fans a bad name; they’d actually distance themselves from us.

Oh no, your 3 buddies would want to distance themselves from me. The Cascio songs must be real.

 

[BUMPER SNIPPET]

Regarding some of the points that have been raised in the previous posts:

1- All of us need to realize that, even though this debate is huge for us, and we’ve spent countless hours talking and thinking and caring about the Cascio tracks, we’re only a relatively small group of people who even care about this. In my own personal group of friends, I know 3 people who are MJ fans, in the sense that they buy his albums when they come out. They don’t hang out on these forums: they have a life. And to them, the controversy about the Cascio tracks lasted a few days, while it was in the mainstream media. And they no longer even think about it: to them, all 10 songs on the “Michael” album are MJ songs. They would look at us, for still debating this, as a bunch of crazies who give MJ fans a bad name; they’d actually distance themselves from us.

Are you saying that because we're hanging around we don't have a life? If your two-three friends believe it's MJ and don't seem to care, what do you expect with that pointless argument? That all of sudden we will hear MJ on those tracks?

So the point is that there are MJ fans beyond the hard-core nucleus we here represent. In that sense, if all 12 Cascio tracks came out tomorrow morning on a Sony CD, a lot of us here wouldn’t buy it, but a lot of other people would, and the mainstream media – the music press, etc. – would simply refer to it as a new Michael Jackson CD, and it would be sold as such, and a lot of people would buy it as such.

If the Estate officially released a new Evis Presley album with newly discovered songs which happen to be from a soundalike but officially labeled as Elvis Presley himself, you'd have exactly the same scenario. But the hard core fans wouldn't get fooled neither by the soundalikes nor by the Estate's decisions to release controversial tracks till they don't get the proof. And that's why we're demanding here - non-theoretical proofs!

2- Regarding the proof Branca/the Estate/the Cascios have. First, we have to realize that no matter what proof they produced, the doubters would… doubt it! Reports from audio forensic experts? Those are not trustworthy, and Sony could have bought them to lie! Pictures of MJ in the Cascio studio? They could date from the WBSS sessions! Worktapes of MJ in the Cascio studio talking about the songs? That could be an impostor also : they faked the actual songs, why wouldn’t they fake the sessions? Outtakes of MJ singing “Breaking News”? Ok, maybe he did sing it once in the studio, but that’s not the vocals they used on the actual CD : those are fake!

That's simply not true! When there is a proof how can you doubt it? If I tell you that dinosaures existed and you don't believe me, I'd show you the bones ande you'd see it for yourself that they indeed existed. If after being shown such an evident tangible proof you'd still deny, then you'd be in total voluntary denial. But the point is, nothing would prevent me to show you those bones. So what prevents the Estate to show their "bones" of the "dinosaure" they are selling to people?

Second, we tend here to overestimate our importance. As far as the Estate/Sony is concerned, the only thing that matters is the legal/financial aspect. From a legal standpoint, nobody has sued anyone else – the Jacksons notably didn’t – which means that whatever they have or don’t have in terms of proof, they’re covered from that side.

It is very easy to be covered when there is no trace whatsoever of the fabrication of those songs. But being covered and the authenticity of the voice are two different things.

And from a financial point of view, what matters is whether reviving the controversy now by producing proof or trying to convince doubters helps them make money or not. And they must have decided that either the doubters are too few in number, or that they still buy everything MJ-related anyway (witness the doubters who bought the Immortal CD and thus gave some of their money to Cascio/Porte), or that reviving the controversy in the mainstream media will hurt the MJ brand, so they don’t care.

When the proof is strong there's no need to be afraid of controversy. But if their proof is extremely weak, then indeed they will try to put everything under the rug. But the hardcore fans will be always there to remind them that they must correct their mistake. Especially now that Branca himself admitted that it was a massive mistake. So if he admitted it then we're waiting for that mistake to be repaired by removing those tracks from the future re-release of the album Michael.

Bottom line is: the Cascio controversy is not as important to Branca/McClain as it is to us. To them, we’re probably lovable weirdos: you gotta love those hardcore MJ fans, even if they can be a little bit cuckoo from time to time, what with all their conspiracy theories and all.

They'd better not be messing around with MJ's fans if they wanna preserve MJ's legacy. And by seeing the release of BAD 25 you can tell that they got the message. But not thanks to the fans who have empathy towards them, but thanks to the fans who vehemently protested their lack of half baked products. BAD25 is the result of our fight to keep MJ's legacy alive. If we had empathy instead of BAD25 box with demos and live cd and dvd, we'd had a poorly promoted BAD cd reissue with autotuned and melodyned remixed MJ's demos in order to modernize them and we'd lost the original touch of MJ's magic. They are perfect as they are, as MJ left them. Something you cannot tell for the Cascio songs, not only because the music has been completely fabricated, but also because the voice doesn't sound MJ's at all. Not to mention that Teddy Riley removed the existing bridge from Hollywood Tonight.

3- Regarding Eddie Cascio himself, if I were him, certainly I would be all over the Internet trying to prove the doubters wrong. But that’s my confrontational nature, and the fact I love a good debate. Maybe he’s not that kind of person. But most probably, it all comes down again to the legal aspects. My guess is he’s been told by his lawyer not to say anything publicly, because if anybody ever sues, all of that could come back and hurt him in court (which, as you all know, doesn’t imply guilt in any way: even innocent people are given that advice. MJ himself was told by his lawyer not to do the 60 Minutes interview in 2005).

Sorry but the excuse used for Eddie that he is not confrontational is misplaced. He had the opportunity to show it on Oprah and on the documentary "Michael". On top of that, he was invited to explain himself in a book, he refused. How an empty picture of the studio can be more convincing as a proof than the proof itself? He comes on tv shows a bunch of pictures with MJ and of his empty studio, but not single thing that proofs MJ's voice on the tracks. It is as if I invited Neil Armstrong to talk about the Moon and he talks about Mars and shows pictures of Venus.

How about asking Stella to tell us that Branca told her? Talk about withholding proof!

I don't think I am anyone's secretary, so how about you asking him yourself?

 

[ivy]

Your empathy is on the wrong side of the barrier -- the opposite of MJ's legacy!

how hard is it for you to understand that I DON'T have to feel or think the way you do. You are not the king of the Michael Jackson fan community and you cannot tell me how I should act.

Michael's legacy? Please. That's exaggerated teenage drama queen talk for me. Why? Because Michael in his life made his legacy through his years of hard work. It's not gonna be hurt by Breaking News, it's not gonna be built by Al Capone. In my opinion posthumous releases and the stuff released by other people after his life has absolutely no effect on Michael's legacy. Bad was a superior album 25 years ago when it was released the way it was released, although the recent Bad25 is making people remember and perhaps discover the Bad album it's not making the original album any good or bad. Michael's legacy was Bad , it's not Bad25.

Furthermore seriously who in public paid attention the controversy drama? No one! It was a small news story 2 years ago. It's over and done with. Also no fake songs is gonna hurt Michael's legacy in the eyes of the fans. If anything it hurts other people's legacy such as Cascio's, Branca, producers and Sony and so on.

There's a unity of the fans and you fail to realize it. Despite of my opinion on the subject, I did respect your opinions and did my best to use any and all connections to get more information. Realize that it matters to you a lot more than it matters to me. Despite that I tried for you and for anyone that was looking for information.

One day you'll realize that your anger is misplaced. And actually you'll realize it's not anger but frustration. You are frustrated because almost 2 years later you have still not found answers to your questions and unfortunately you weren't able to move on from the subject. So you are extremely frustrated. and you choose to direct your frustration towards me and my personal opinions - which has no bearing on the parties involved and how they act btw - to release some steam. Who cares what I think? What I think or my empathy has absolutely no influence on how Branca or Eddie or anyone else acts or approaches to this issue. So you can direct your messages to me but it won't make a damn difference. If I stop having empathy towards the people cursed, it won't make them start talking to the fans.

One day you'll realize that the personal sentences are unnecessary and actually your fellow fans have opinions that are similar to yours.

It's as simple as this: if they have the proof, they must show it to us. If they don't have the proof, then they must clearly tell us that they don't have it.

But I suspect that the only proof they do have are some reports with which they can defend their own asses why they were led to believe that it is MJ singing, which in reality isn't a proof, but just a cover for their asses in case they are attacked.

what is proof? As far as I can see your definition of proof is definitive proof or no proof. However circumstantial proof is also very valid form for proof. Remember Murray trial? Actually like you I don't think they have definitive proof - such as a video of Michael recording the songs and yeah they might be withholding the circumstantial proof just to not start more arguments and disagreements. Didn't Branca apologize for the disharmony among the fans? So why would he prefer to throw more wood to the fire?

Ivy, keep on having empathy with the ones who admitted themselves they made a massive mistake, yet are doing absolutely nothing to repair that mistake.

What is the mistake they admitted? My understanding - and Stella can correct me - is that Branca believes for whatever reason the songs to be legit but called creating a disharmony among the fans as a mistake. He's trying to repair that mistake by not releasing Cascio songs in the future as well as listen to the fans in the following releases such as Bad 25.

I know you have other standards or expectations in your mind. As (again my understanding) he didn't say the songs to be not Michael, he has no obligation to fit to your standards such as issuing an apology, removing the songs or the album from the release and so on. It's not a realistic expectation.

Also as I said my empathy is totally irrelevant in this matter. For example Estate isn't withholding expert reports because I might have empathy and they won't release them when I don't have any empathy. MY personal opinions is irrelevant.

2- Regarding the proof Branca/the Estate/the Cascios have. First, we have to realize that no matter what proof they produced, the doubters would… doubt it! Reports from audio forensic experts? Those are not trustworthy, and Sony could have bought them to lie! Pictures of MJ in the Cascio studio? They could date from the WBSS sessions! Worktapes of MJ in the Cascio studio talking about the songs? That could be an impostor also : they faked the actual songs, why wouldn’t they fake the sessions? Outtakes of MJ singing “Breaking News”? Ok, maybe he did sing it once in the studio, but that’s not the vocals they used on the actual CD : those are fake!

Second, we tend here to overestimate our importance. As far as the Estate/Sony is concerned, the only thing that matters is the legal/financial aspect. From a legal standpoint, nobody has sued anyone else – the Jacksons notably didn’t – which means that whatever they have or don’t have in terms of proof, they’re covered from that side.

And from a financial point of view, what matters is whether reviving the controversy now by producing proof or trying to convince doubters helps them make money or not. And they must have decided that either the doubters are too few in number, or that they still buy everything MJ-related anyway (witness the doubters who bought the Immortal CD and thus gave some of their money to Cascio/Porte), or that reviving the controversy in the mainstream media will hurt the MJ brand, so they don’t care.

Bottom line is: the Cascio controversy is not as important to Branca/McClain as it is to us. To them, we’re probably lovable weirdos: you gotta love those hardcore MJ fans, even if they can be a little bit cuckoo from time to time, what with all their conspiracy theories and all.

I have to agree with this. Especially with the "we have to realize that no matter what proof they produced, the doubters would… doubt it!"

Saying "if they have proof they would have shown it" is really a simplistic approach to stuff. Having proof doesn't mean people would show it, there are a lot of factors involved such as if it makes a difference or if it matters in the big scheme of things.

Let me give an example: Sometime ago two people were on twitter talking negatively about me and MJJC and said that we don't allow the Cascio debate and we ban people. This wasn't true. I had a rough idea about the banned people mentioned and I had first hand knowledge of why they were banned - not because of their opinions in regards to these songs. I had proof - cold hard proof. How many times they were reported, how many times they were warned, multiple messages from multiple moderators and so on. I could have clearly demonstrate why they were banned. I had this thread with millions of views and close to 2000 pages glory to show that the discussion was allowed.

But I didn't do it. Why? Because I knew this person was overly negative towards MJJC and me, I knew that they had already made up their minds without asking or seeking information and without giving us a chance to explain ourselves. It would have been a futile attempt to try to change their minds. Also 2 people one of which is not even a MJJC member wasn't really that significant. We are a lot more interested in keeping our members happy and not so much interested in the rumors non-members believe.

One person - and I believe it was Stella (or a person with same name) - jumped in and said it wasn't true. Told those people that they were discussing Cascio songs and they weren't banned. I appreciated the gesture. I actually appreciated it a lot because I believed that person was Stella and was willing to be a witness despite our personal difference. But I told that person (who I believed to be Stella) "thanks but it won't matter". And in the end it didn't. Those people kept ignoring a witness statement that what they were saying wasn't true.

In the end
- is there a group of people who thinks we don't allow Cascio song discussion and ban people / doubters - yes
- do we have evidence to prove this is not the case - yes
- do we have members that are willing to be a witness and say that is not the case - yes
- did we try to prove them wrong, show our evidence - no
- do we have any intention to ever prove them wrong - no
- does it really matter that there's this group that thinks negative things about MJJC - no not really


-------------------------

PS : Some of you might want to ease on putting Stella on the spot. He has a choice to tell or not tell. It's his life. It's not nice to impose standards of behavior to him or to anyone else. Make a request from him, ask him to please tell everyone what he knows but respect his choice eitherway as well. That's called empathy. Try it.