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Wembley DVD Critique /Quality and other prefered concerts over Wembley go here

I wasn't here because I never watched any video; even on youtube. Waited for my box set :) Because this is my 25 years dream... Watching a Bad Tour concert.

Honestly, if Michael is on screen enough for me. Even this concert, but I must say shocked... That's not my 25 years dream!?

Worlds Best Singer just has a VHS tape? And it's a celebration, BAD album celebration. That album changed everything after Thriller. 72.000 people and Royal family was there and they did sell us this DVD?

That was a historical moment?

For years and years I bought everything what I found. I don't know how much money I spend. As a fan, I do my job. I did never download any officially released material. But SONY and Estate didn't make their job enough well.

How kind of a VHS tape has bad quality footages and studio quality sound? How can it be? Didn't they say just found a VHS?

Sorry, but I can not believe them.

I'm not saying don't buy it, buy it. Make it number one. We are millions... And we give millions of dollars every year to them. So we can expect better things.

If you say we manage Michael's legacy, than manage it. This is not looking you manage it. This is not looking that you are trying to make best things for Michael.



Check my video mixes. I'm trying to keep him alive. I don't make money, but I work hard for every video. Trying to make it best. It's just about love...

They release videos on Michael's channel as on DVD... Make new things. Make something like Breace yourself, Dangerous videos. If you can't give me, give us - I'll make without money...

money, money, money...
 
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Does anyone know if Nocturne was the company that produced the Yokohama show?
Or was that a Japanese company that approached MJ's team to make that show for TV?

As it stands now, this would have been a neater set to release (random thought. not complaining. just sayin' it would be NEAT) :

Bad Tour (standalone release)

DVD 1- YOKOHAMA 1987
Bonus features= BAD with Stevie Wonder in Australia, one black shirt song, one red shirt song, behind the scenes/backstage footage.

DVD 2- WEMBLEY 1988
Bonus features= The Way You Make Me Feel from previous night (or TYWMMF from MSG with Tatiana), Dirty Diana from MSG with Steve Stevens, Man In The Mirror from final 1989 show in L.A., behind the scenes/backstage footage.

CD1 and CD2- Compilation of all the songs from the Bad Tour from various shows (like the Genesis live album)
 
code753cr said:
I am posting a video of a simple fan reviewing the Bad Tour Wembley, I think it would be great in this thread. He talks about the performance and also the quality and such. He is not quality freaks like us, but a normal MJ fan who seems to review DVDs and other Blu-Rays;
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he's an overly Anti-Estate fan that clearly said he will not buy any Estate released items. So you are watching an Anti-Estate fan to review an illegally downloaded content. Let's not act like he's not a biased fan. He has his very obvious biased point of view accompanied with disrespect towards other fans. Perhaps try to find someone that could be neutral. I personally give no value to someone that said 95% of the fans are blind sheep and started talking negatively about a release months before he even saw / heard it.

TabloidJunk If you buy that, it is money right into the pockets of the evil, greedy bastards that run the estate. Morally, i cannot.

One month before the DVD release

TabloidJunk you know the concert dvd is just a VHS rip right? Typical MJEstate shortcut crap.

TabloidJunk yes, a boycott of estate releases is important.. I'll make a vlog in the next few days explaining why. @mjonlineteam

TabloidJunk I just saw how much u spread around my vid. Thnx honey!The truth is out there.We just hav 2 keep out eyes open. #MJEstateIsEvil

TabloidJunk i couldn't agree more with everything you said about the EVIL estate & those half-brained "Fans" who suck them off

TabloidJunk Yep. Estate are the pure evil that Michael warned us about. I will not be buying Bad25, or any other Branca/Estate release
 
ivy said:
he's an overly Anti-Estate fan that clearly said he will not buy any Estate released items. So you are watching an Anti-Estate fan to review an illegally downloaded content. Let's not act like he's not a biased fan. He has his very obvious biased point of view accompanied with disrespect towards other fans. Perhaps try to find someone that could be neutral. I personally give no value to someone that said 95% of the fans are blind sheep and started talking negatively about a release months before he even saw / heard it.

TabloidJunk If you buy that, it is money right into the pockets of the evil, greedy bastards that run the estate. Morally, i cannot.

One month before the DVD release

TabloidJunk you know the concert dvd is just a VHS rip right? Typical MJEstate shortcut crap.

TabloidJunk yes, a boycott of estate releases is important.. I'll make a vlog in the next few days explaining why. @mjonlineteam

TabloidJunk I just saw how much u spread around my vid. Thnx honey!The truth is out there.We just hav 2 keep out eyes open. #MJEstateIsEvil

TabloidJunk i couldn't agree more with everything you said about the EVIL estate & those half-brained "Fans" who suck them off

TabloidJunk Yep. Estate are the pure evil that Michael warned us about. I will not be buying Bad25, or any other Branca/Estate release
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I am incredibly sorry about going off-topic here, but your incredibly accurate points have compelled me to post this again:

251572_3694829975471_703148063_n.jpg


Having actually met and spoken to Mr. Branca, he is not pure evil. He is friendly, articulate and gives every single fan the time of day so that they can converse and share their opinions with him. This hatred towards John Branca (and never John McClain, oddly...) is founded solely on one event in 2010, and nothing more. Michael Jackson was not immune to archival mismanagement; a tragedy for many artists up to the 90s, and one of the biggest reasons as to why many films from the silent era have been completely lost. Being Michael Jackson just doesn't change that, or give him better archival management when this tour was never going to see the light of day.

And that's once again incredibly important to point out. Michael Jackson - the man himself - did not want this tour to be released on home media. TabloidJunk says in his review that if they couldn't find anything better than a VHS, then it wasn't ready to be seen. And yet, if no Bad Tour concert was released at all, the Estate (or should I say just Branca) would be accused of bleeding the fans dry with a sub-par anniversary release when it's the tour that anyone really cares about. This was one of the better shows, and it had real historical importance,. It's a show that everyone wanted. It's a show that they had tremendous audio for, which would allow them to in turn make an incredible sounding live CD. The sad fact is that all they have is a VHS copy (which would've likely fared better than a misplaced Umatic tape in terms of degradation). The Estate cannot win either way because it's impossible to please all of the fans, and they're in the s**t no matter what they do. I'll be surprised if they even bother with a new release after all of this... Of course, then they'll be accused of trying to destroy Michael's legacy by sealing off the vault to the public...
 
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They won't close the vault. Bad25 will make a lot of money for them. No matter what is being said in this thread, most fans are understanding of the issues with the DVD and are happy with the release. I'm more interested in learning just what is out there that the estate may not be aware of. There could be people out there sitting on material that they don't even realise they have. And who knows what is in the hands of private collectors?

Gathering any and all Michael Jackson footage shot on film during his career needs to be a priority.
 
DJ_OXyGeNe_8 said:
I wasn't here because I never watched any video; even on youtube. Waited for my box set :) Because this is my 25 years dream... Watching a Bad Tour concert. Honestly, if Michael is on screen enough for me. Even this concert, but I must say shocked... That's not my 25 years dream!? Worlds Best Singer just has a VHS tape? And it's a celebration, BAD album celebration. That album changed everything after Thriller. 72.000 people and Royal family was there and they did sell us this DVD? That was a historical moment?

For years and years I bought everything what I found. I don't know how much money I spend. As a fan, I do my job. I did never download any officially released material. But SONY and Estate didn't make their job enough well.

How kind of a VHS tape has bad quality footages and studio quality sound? How can it be? Didn't they say just found a VHS? Sorry, but I can not believe them.
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DJ, I understand you being sceptical. But please note. They didnt use the sound track from the 25 yr old VHS which would have also been sub par. They had high quality multitrack soundtruck recordings of the July 16th concert that they used to create the Live Wembley CD and for the DVD sound track. That was one of the reasons they chose this concert. becuase They has 5.1 sourround sound recording for it. We also got that info straight from the horses mouth . Dave P (Go Flying) was the one who multitrack recorded that concert from a soundtruck as well as other concerts. He also feels this concert is one of Michaels greatest performances from Wembley.

The VHS is the ONLY full concert they have of wembley at this time. It is great Historical value and having Great sound track for it was a good reason to release it for the fans.The Estate felt the Remastered VHS with Great 5.1 sound quality was the Best choice for a BAD DVD release. I agree. I think we are blessed to have finally seen this. Michael was amazing.

I also want to say how much I appreciate all the beautifu work you create for us fans and to honor Michael. It is much appreciated by so many of us. You really put your heart and soul into your work and have created some beautiful masterpieces. :heart:
 
code753cr;3716270 said:
Well, I think we all know by now, saying this again, the estate is not trustworthy! And DJ! Where have you been throughout this entire discussion?! Good to have you in here and active in the forum or at all really. The work done on Jaws is what should of been done with the Bad Tour! That is a perfect example and the stuff on the Dangerous Diaries shows what happens "behind the secenes" almost. That is Nocturne Productions crew on the DWT! Same crew for the Bad Tour! They are actually still alive;
http://www.nocturneproductions.com/
I wonder how thoroughly the estate searched. I wonder if he went to Nocturne, or the film crews, or people who worked there, get into contact with people who helped run the tour, etc. I am sure someone out there has this stuff, I honestly doubt they were thrown out or put into a garbage. Someone out there has to have it or something better than Wembley. ...
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Code Please speak for yourself and dont make blatant statements like we all know the Estate is not trsuworthy. There is nothing here to show they did anything wrong. You have throw out so much negative speculation in this thread with no proof of wrong doing - just hearsay. Now to answer your question. Please read or re-read the letter TOP Post from the Estate you can see of course they contacted Nocturne and spoke to the people who were in possesion. Nocturne stated they turned over all they had to MJ's crew and it went to storage facilities. The head of filming for the europen tour said all they had was also sent to LA and placed in MJ's storage - Same for the US shows. The Estate is till trying to track down the umatic tapes. Most likley they have hired people to do this. They are NOT idiots .. They have conections and investigators on the case. I would say its a given The Estate wants all of Michaels work in their possession. They are even archiving and digitalising what they do have to protect it from futher decay.


I wish members would Please read this and the rest of the letter TOP Post from the Estate reguarding this issue. They were upfront from the beginning about this release. Its answer so many of the questions many of you are asking in this thread. Is there more we wish to know ? of course. Im sure more answers will come in time. But I see nohting sinsiter about the Estate restoring or releasing this DVD with the great soundtruck Multitracks they had available for it. The unfounded conspiracy theories just get to be too much sometimes.

• We know that Nocturne captured on Umatic tapes the footage projected onto the JumboTrons at the various concerts including Wembley. These tapes were turned over to Michael’s crew and we have confirmed with Patrick Kelly (who headed Michael’s film crew for the European tour) that everything from Europe was sent to LA to be put in Michael’s storage facilities. The same procedures were followed for the US shows.

• Unfortunately, record-keeping in the storage facilities was sporadic, at best, so we do not know what happened to a tape once it was sent for storage. In most cases, once a tape was pulled from the box it arrived in, it was not put back in the original box and where it wound up doesn’t always make sense. As a result, 25 years later not all of the Umatic tapes from the various shows can be located, notwithstanding that we have conducted an extensive survey of all of the storage facilities. So while we believe that the Umatic tape for Wembley was initially sent for storage, we have not been able to locate it. And with regard to the Umatic footage of other concerts, the audio is extremely problematic and therefore these concerts are unusable.
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Branca:
"We also could have chosen to release the Japanese concert from the first leg of the tour as there is a master of that show; but that concert was essentially a reincarnation of the Victory Tour with only two songs – “Bad” and “I Just Can’t Stop Loving You” – added at the end. It isn’t what we believe the fans would want."


Am I the only one that wants this DVD too? He almost makes it sound like the Victory Tour was a bad thing. LOL Jesus, just release the Japanese show.
 
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qbee said:
DJ, I understand you being sceptical. But please note. They didnt use the sound track from the 25 yr old VHS which would have also been sub par. They had high quality multitrack soundtruck recordings of the July 16th concert that they used to create the Live Wembley CD and for the DVD sound track. That was one of the reasons they chose this concert. becuase They has 5.1 sourround sound recording for it. We also got that info straight from the horses mouth . Dave P (Go Flying) was the one who multitrack recorded that concert from a soundtruck as well as other concerts. He also feels this concert is one of Michaels greatest performances from Wembley.

The VHS is the ONLY full concert they have of wembley at this time. It is great Historical value and having Great sound track for it was a good reason to release it for the fans.The Estate felt the Remastered VHS with Great 5.1 sound quality was the Best choice for a BAD DVD release. I agree. I think we are blessed to have finally seen this. Michael was amazing.
heart:
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I'm sure they have multitrack recordings for July 15th concert too and they have the full concert video. The Way You Make Me Feel is taken from that. :)
 
My dream Bad Tour Blu ray/DVD would be

Bad Tour Wembley July 15th (This show feels more complete then the 16th with The Way You Make Me Feel included)

Bonus Features:
Bad (1987 with Stevie Wonder)
Smooth Criminal (Live at Madison Sqaure Garden)
The Way You Make Me Feel (Live At Madison Sqaure Garden)
The Way You Make Me Feel and Man In The Mirror (Live at The Grammy's 1988)
 
TheMan1998 said:
I guess Sony did the best they could to restore the video image. The only thing that bothers me is that they did not do a re Pan&scan to convert the video to 9:16 widescreen format to match today's screens. It it a very simple process. You need to go over each frame and crop it into 9:16 res making sure you'll always focusing on the main action (not cutting MJ's head off)
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I know this is a post from way back, but I've come across your - in my opinion rather ridiculous - 16/9 statement twice now. Why for all that is holy would you want to lose another 25 or so percent or the scarce video information we have in this 4/3 frame by cropping (i.e. cutting off) picture at the top and bottom ...? As you said, there are only 250 lines in a vhs image. So why on earth lose 50 of them? This is a low-quality 4/3 source. The only result would be an even worse, blurry, blown-up look to the picture - now filling the entire 16/9 widescreen TV. Great.
Larger is not always better ...


I have also gone briefly through the photos I own of the Hockenheim, Germany, concert:



This guy appears throughout the show in front of Michael; this is one of the clearer pics. Film camera?
 
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HOTEL said:
Am I the only one that wants this DVD too? He almost makes it sound like the Victory Tour was a bad thing. LOL Jesus, just release the Japanese show.
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Most of us have this show, and have had it for years. The Wembley show is what most people, especially the fans who have been around forever, wanted to see. And we got it. I for one am glad we got what we got! Thankyou estate!
 
Elegantly Wasted said:
Most of us have this show, and have had it for years. The Wembley show is what most people, especially the fans who have been around forever, wanted to see. And we got it. I for one am glad we got what we got! Thankyou estate!
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They officially released this Japan show; high quality on dvd?

And my point was why not release them both.
 
I think they used hard noise filters on this DVD and killed every details. I think adding some noise effect would be good, look more cinematic; I mean like this, colors changed (don't think about it) little bit for Alcapone Video Mix

dhb1t.png

dhb2g.png


dhb31.png

dhb37.png
 
Can I ask what is the purpose here?

It's not like Estate is denying that at least some concerts were shot on film 25 years ago, finding all these cameras on the pictures etc doesn't answer where the films are now. Or even if they still exist or if they are in a usable situation.
 
ivy said:
Can I ask what is the purpose here?

It's not like Estate is denying that at least some concerts were shot on film 25 years ago, finding all these cameras on the pictures etc doesn't answer where the films are now. Or even if they still exist or if they are in a usable situation.
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To get a better idea of what was actually shot on film and what is possibly out there waiting to be found. Period.

Speaking for myself, I'm well aware. Nor was I stating anything to the contrary. I don't see how this little exercise is hurting anybody.
 
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A lot of us are interested in what may have been captured on film. Really, what's the big deal here?
 
ivy said:
Can I ask what is the purpose here?
It's not like Estate is denying that at least some concerts were shot on film 25 years ago, finding all these cameras on the pictures etc doesn't answer where the films are now. Or even if they still exist or if they are in a usable situation.
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WildStyle said:
To get a better idea of what was actually shot on film and what is possibly out there waiting to be found. Period.
Speaking for myself, I'm well aware. Nor was I stating anything to the contrary. I don't see how this little exercise is hurting anybody.
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h0opman31 said:
I'm getting tired of this camera pics..No point
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WildStyle said:
A lot of us are interested in what may have been captured on film. Really, what's the big deal here?
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There is no big deal. I think Ivy was just asking what the reason or motive for finding the cameras was. One reason becuase this really isnt on topic of discussing the DVD quality. I think its an interesting topic though. This topic really deserves its own thread, So Ill move the discussion and posts to a new thread so you can continue investigating. Ill post the link below for those interested. Let me know if the title is alright. We can always change that. If you see any posts that I miss that can be moved there let me know.


OK Here is the NEW thread open for discussion _ Enjoy

Lets investigate what BAD concerts may have been shot on film ?
http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...-what-BAD-concerts-may-have-been-shot-on-film


MOD NOTE
Those who wish to continue to discuss the DVD quality carry on
Those discussing filming of BAD concerts and cameras check the above created thread to find your posts.
 
TabloidJunk uses very biased language in his assessment and doesn't try to find logical reasoning for any potential edits to the concert. The most logical being that - as it is a 24-year old VHS - it's likely that some frames were damaged and needed supplementing. If you look at the back of Live of Bucharest, you will see no mention of supplementary concerts and instead you will find a concrete date for the concert. Some people have made a mountain out of a molehill with this in an effort to further discredit the Estate. We know that the footage was being worked on after the announcement was made, and I think it's fairly safe to assume that - unless Branca and McClain take up video restoration as a hobby - they don't really know a lot about it i.e. what can and cannot be fixed by it. When frames are too badly damaged and cannot be fixed without some serious image manipulation that won't look very appealing in the final product, the only real course of action is to use supplementary material. But given the fact that it's 95% July 16th and 5% other concerts from the same block, I fail to see the big problem that some people (I'm not aiming this at anyone on here) have. If this was just Umatic or Betamax tape, then some issue could be taken up with it because they don't have the damage that VHS tapes do (though I could be wrong on that), whereas VHS tapes can gather significant damage to frames if not taken care of properly.
 
It makes zero sense that they would edit different shows together that weren't on the VHS. They would have to go to an awful lot of trouble to degrade the other footage to the exact same level as the VHS for literally zero gain. If different shows are edited together it would have been that way on the original VHS source. Not after the fact.
 
I agree . Yes its possible Billie Jean was spliced from different shows, but most likely it was already recorded on the VHS that way. Or some VHS frames were damaged in part of BJ so they needed to do some minor editing. Its just very small part called into question any way. IMO it was already recorded that way and they just remastered what was on the VHS. There is Nothin odd about that becuase it's somethign we know MJ would do to get the best takes. He did it for his Bucherest DVD and MSG Billie Jean performance. And He didnt state that on the DVDS. So he very well could have had a small part of his Billie Jean performace spliced from other perfomances on his VHS. Right now it just speculation, but some clips seem to suggest some frames from other performances were used.

I dont think it's anything sinister going on like tabloidJunk/Tristan is claiming in his article. He is a know Estate hater and conspiracy theorist so he has and will continue to nit pick the whole BAD25 project to attck the estate. I dont see this shows the estate lied to the fans at all, like he is trying to claim. That is just his speculation .. There are other very plausable possibilities mentioned above as to why. The Wembley DVD is a wonderful gift to us all and it shows MJ in a great light as he would want and as it should be... Regardless
 
respect77 said:
I'm really getting tired of all the conspiracy theories.
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welcome to the club.

there's a fine line between fair criticism and obsessed negativity.

I have also seen another person claiming Estate is lying that Wembley DVD ranked #1 in USA because they can't see it on the online Billboard charts. They fail to realize that Wembley DVD ranking was first written by Yahoo music and Billboard charts are also published as hard copy and also sent to all of the industry people.
 
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