Jordan Chandler Discussion Thread

The big difference in MJ vs almost every other real abuse case:

1) the victims in other cases normally involve spontaneous confessions. A child volunteering to their parents. A full grown adult ashamed and finally admitting it to someone. This did not happen with any victim in MJ's case. Jordan, Francia and Gavin only said they were abused after people had told them they had already been abused. With every single one people said, "You're a victim, you've been abused, don't lie to me, I know you have and I'll only believe you if you say you've been abused." That is NOT normal for any real scenario of abuse, the exact opposite.
2) Money was involved. They weren't making these claims for justice, they did it for money. If a woman had just been raped and instead of immediately seeking justice, she fired off a lawsuit, how reliable would she be seen as? It's not like people can say, "She was scared of the publicity." When she's on tape saying she hopes to make it as a public as possible before the rape has even been confessed. It's very different saying you were abused by Sandusky who was not supremely wealthy, and saying you're abused by a man worth hundreds of millions.
 
JUST THE FACTS / Powerful Hollywood lawyer Bertram Fields

2005-04-03 04:00:00 PDT Los Angeles -- "Follow it? I'm curious," Bertram Fields is saying about the Michael Jackson molestation case. "I rather liked him." Fields was one of a team of lawyers working for Jackson when he was charged with molesting a boy the first time around. Without his approval, Jackson settled, and Fields withdrew from the case. "I wrote him a letter saying, 'I can no longer represent you.' I think the world of Johnnie Cochran," he said of the celebrated lawyer who died last week and once represented Jackson. "Though I never would have settled that case. I think we would have won."
Fields, for the uninitiated, is one of the most powerful lawyers in Hollywood.


Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/living/articl...ul-Hollywood-lawyer-2718212.php#ixzz2ISQt9Z50


512x.jpg

Bertram Fields, right, attorney for Michael Jackson, addresses the court as Robert Turner, left, and Larry Feldman, representing the boy who has alleged Jackson molested him confer during a hearing in Santa Monica, Calif., Tuesday, Nov. 23, 1993.A judge set a March trial for a civil lawsuit claiming the alleged molestation by Jackson despite a revelation by Fields that a grand jury investigation had begun. (AP Photo/Mark J. Terrill)
 
Who was the person that talked Michael into settling the 1993 case? I don't believe that Michael just chose to settle that case on his own.
 
I can't stand it when someone thinks MJ was innocent (Which is a great thing btw) but still puts the blame on MJ for the false allegations. When these people say things like ''Yeah, he was innocent but he brought it on himself by inviting children to Neverland'' or ''He was weird so how could these people not help but accuse him''

Talk about blaming the victim. I don't care how weird you think someone is. That is no excuse to accuse them of a horrible crime
Yes, I can't stand that crap either. Especially by his own fans! O_O Which I have seen often, even here a few times on MJJC. But, not gonna name names. -__- Anyway, yea there is no excuse to give for any false allegation period. And if u think so well good luck if that ever happen to u, don't go crying about later.
 
Whether LMP told him to settle or not I don't know, but I don't think her word was the main one. We have talked about why Michael settled several times in this thread, for example here: http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...Thread/page7?p=3755552&viewfull=1#post3755552

For these reasons, it was his new lawyer, Johnnie Cochran who advised Michael to settle. Though, it's interesting that Cochran and Larry Feldman were friends... I actually wish Michael had kept Bert Fields.
 
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Anthony Pellicano, a private investigator for entertainer Michael Jackson, speaks to reporters during a brief news conference at the office of Lawyer Howard Weitzman, right, in the Century City section of Los Angeles, Tuesday, August 24, 1993. Pellicano said child abuse allegations which have led to the criminal probe of Jackson is the result of "an extortion gone awry." (AP Photo/Nick Ut)


Pellicano worked with Cochran and Weitzman, two of Simpson's attorneys during this ordeal, when they represented Michael Jackson in the child molestation lawsuit. As we all know, that was settled but Jackson's reputation was besmirched. Nice job, guys.

http://www.lukeford.net/profiles/profiles/anthony_pellicano.htm
 
Who was the person that talked Michael into settling the 1993 case? I don't believe that Michael just chose to settle that case on his own.

Exactly Michael did not settle that case. His insurance company & attorneys were involved. Michael did not want to settle that case. They made a decision without thinking what potential harm it would have on Michael in the long run & how that decision would impact other potential fraudsters. We saw what happened. The tickler came and also the Advisios followed the same model to make money, and this all happened because that case was settled. I know there were legal reasons which also influenced that decision, but somehow I feel some more legal planning should have been done to come up with a better solution.

By the way I bought the Hughes book on Amazon yesterday.

Never heard about the Lisa influence. Strange since she never mentions it in interviews when asked about the allegations. Why would Michael listen to her in such a serious matter. It is not as though she has experiences with situations like this.
 
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Anthony Pellicano was a Private Investigator who was hired by Bert Fields, Michael's lawyer. Here's some more information about Anthony Pellicano's deal with the Chandler's...

TAPE AIRED TO BACK CLAIMS OF EXTORTION ATTEMPT
Combined AP and UPI
Published: Thursday, Sept. 2 1993 12:00 a.m. MDT
Summary
Michael Jackson's representatives played a taped phone conversation they say supports their claim that the allegations against him of child-molesting resulted from an extortion attempt.
The pop star, meanwhile, took a breather Thursday by relaxing with some of his favorite companions - exotic animals - a day after wrapping up the two-concert Singapore leg of his ``Dangerous'' world tour.
Michael Jackson's representatives played a taped phone conversation they say supports their claim that the allegations against him of child-molesting resulted from an extortion attempt.

The pop star, meanwhile, took a breather Thursday by relaxing with some of his favorite companions - exotic animals - a day after wrapping up the two-concert Singapore leg of his "Dangerous" world tour.With close friend actress Elizabeth Taylor in tow, Jackson made a trip to the Mandai Zoo, billed as one of the world's stellar collections of animals.

Jackson came under investigation in Los Angeles after a 13-year-old reported he was molested by the singer during a four-month relationship. Jackson has denied any wrongdoing, and no charges have been filed.

The tape played for reporters on Wednesday was purported to be a recording of an Aug. 17 conversation between Jackson's private investigator, Anthony Pellicano, and Barry Rothman, a lawyer for the boy's father.

Jackson's lawyer, Howard Weitzman, said the tape "confirms what Mr. Pellicano has told you before with respect to the demands that were made" by the father.

Pellicano said the father, a prominent dentist and sometime screenwriter, wanted $20 million in the form of a film deal to keep quiet about the boy's allegations.

The 25-minute tape makes no mention of molestation and is dominated by heated and sometimes profanity-laced exchanges between Pellicano and the man said to be Rothman over the terms of a movie deal between Jackson and the boy's father.

The father had turned down a one-movie, $350,000 offer from Jackson and was angry because he felt Jackson's people had reneged on an earlier offer for a three-picture deal, according to the tape.

Pellicano presses the man said to be Rothman on why it was in Pellicano's interest to sweeten the $350,000 deal, according to the tape.

"I don't have to state the obvious, and I'm not prepared to do so in this conversation," says the man. He cites concerns that whatever he says could end up as evidence in court.

Calls to Rothman were not immediately returned. It wasn't clear whether he still represents the father. A private investigator who says he was hired by the father has denied the father tried to extort money from Jackson.

In Singapore, Jackson's physician, Dr. David Forcast, declared that the star's health is "great, really great," although he is taking medicine for migraines. http://www.deseretnews.com/article/307816/TAPE-AIRED-TO-BACK-CLAIMS-OF-EXTORTION-ATTEMPT.html?pg=all

Threats To Jackson On Released Tapes -- Singer Cancels 3Rd Show On Asian Tour
Tuesday, August 31, 1993 - Page updated at 12:00 AM


LOS ANGELES - As Michael Jackson postponed a sold-out concert in Singapore because of what his doctor called a "slow, recurring migraine," the soap opera surrounding the pop singer took an unexpected twist yesterday with the release of secretly recorded tapes that Jackson's advisers have used to allege an extortion plot against the entertainer.

The tapes contain purported comments from the father of a 13-year-old boy who has become the key figure in a police investigation of Jackson for alleged child molestation, sources said.

"There will be a massacre if I don't get what I want," the father said during 80 minutes of apparently edited telephone conversations with the boy's stepfather. Both were part of a custody battle. Sources said the tapes were recorded by the stepfather sometime in July.

At no point, however, did the boy's father spell out what he might want from Jackson or detail any allegations against Jackson. Throughout the tapes, the father demanded to meet with Jackson, the child and the boy's mother, from whom he was divorced at least seven years ago.

"I have the evidence (against Jackson)," the father said. "You'll hear it on tape recordings."

Police have said their investigation so far has not produced physical or medical evidence that would support a criminal filing.

Neither the father nor his attorney has responded to repeated phone calls, but the father has told friends the extortion allegations are untrue.

Jackson's advisers say they have turned over a copy of the tapes to the Los Angeles Police Department.

The tape recordings - together with the accounts of private investigator Anthony Pellicano and attorney Bertram Fields - portray a celebrity besieged for six weeks by demands from an insistent parent who alleged that his son was molested and wanted to be compensated through lucrative movie-development and screenwriting deals.

Throughout the tapes, the father appears to threaten going public with his allegations, saying he feels compelled to do what is best for his son.

He said he hired an attorney. "Once I make that phone call," the father said, "Michael's career will be over."

Meanwhile, a day after marking his 35th birthday, Jackson postponed his performance yesterday at Singapore's National Stadium minutes before he was to take the stage. His doctor told reporters at the Raffles Hotel that Jackson was suffering from a migraine headache. Witnesses said the singer was so weak he had to be helped into the hotel by aides who supported him under each arm.

The cancellation was the third in scarcely a week for Jackson, who canceled two dates on his "Dangerous" tour last week in Bangkok.

Some members of the Jackson family were planning to join him on tour "very soon," said the singer's brother Jermaine Jackson, who spoke at a news conference in North Hollywood yesterday.

"I'd like to let the world know that I'm behind my son," said Katherine Jackson, Michael's mother. "I don't believe any of this stuff that's being written . . . ."
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19930831&slug=1718613
 
The tape recordings - together with the accounts of private investigator Anthony Pellicano and attorney Bertram Fields - portray a celebrity besieged for six weeks by demands from an insistent parent who alleged that his son was molested and wanted to be compensated through lucrative movie-development and screenwriting deals.
Yea cause that's what any sane parent would want for there child as justice. -_-

For these reasons, it was his new lawyer, Johnnie Cochran who advised Michael to settle. Though, it's interesting that Cochran and Larry Feldman were friends... I actually wish Michael had kept Bert Fields.
It's very interesting they knew each other for yrs and were very good friends. I believe that both didn't want the other to lose. So I'm sure it played a part in that quick settlement once Cochran came in.. Both came out as winners with a settlement while MJ took the fall. Way took look out for each other the old pals.
 
Even if any famous person or priest had molested or rape any of my children, the last thing I'd ask is money. I'd want to see that bastard rotten in jail! Doesn't it ring a bell to the haters who think him guilty!? :blink: Asking for such amount of money is outrageous and NOT NORMAL and it can compensate the magnitude of such horrendous crime!
 
For these reasons, it was his new lawyer, Johnnie Cochran who advised Michael to settle. Though, it's interesting that Cochran and Larry Feldman were friends.

Yea cause that's what any sane parent would want for there child as justice. -_-

It's very interesting they knew each other for yrs and were very good friends. I believe that both didn't want the other to lose. So I'm sure it played a part in that quick settlement once Cochran came in.. Both came out as winners with a settlement while MJ took the fall. Way took look out for each other the old pals.
 
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Every time you look at the taped conversation, you see that the lawyer was right and that they would have been able to beat this case. I am sure they would have uncovered more damaging evidence too. Plus having these crooks cross-examined by expert lawyers would have been a win win situation for Michael. What a difference Michael's life would have been then. Well I guess we cannot cry over the "what might have been," but work more towards bring the information to others.

PS: & mom is behind her son and Jermaine is flying over to be with him, according to the article above, but wasn't that the time they went & made him sign for the Jackson Honors? Wonderful support system they have there....
 
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Michael Jackson - Three In Bed' Tape Shock For Jackson

Daily Express 2nd September 1993

MICHAEL Jackson was secretly taped sharing a bed with two boys, it was claimed last night.

The new allegations emerged as the singer made a dramatic return to the stage in Singapore following fears for his health.

A highly-placed source told the Daily Express that Jackson slept three-in-a-bed with Jordan Chandler, 13, and the boy's six-year-old brother Nicky at their Beverly Hills mansion.

Their father, dentist Evan Chandler, was said to have put a recorder under the bed and taped Jackson "fiddling" with Jordan.

The source claimed: "The police say Jackson is the classic paedophile. He does all the things to attract children — the candy, the video games, the animals." Jackson's private investigator Anthony Pellicano denied it all.
He said: "I asked Jordan point-blank whether Michael molested him and he replied 'Never'."
It was also revealed Chandler was suspended from dental practice after patients' complaints.
And Jordan's mother ran up £70,000 bills on Jackson's credit card on trips with him to Europe.
Jackson aides claim Chandler was behind a £13 million extortion plot against the star.

AS NEW allegations broke over Michael Jackson's sex life, it was claimed last-night that investigators have already labelled the superstar a child abuser. "The police say Jackson is the classic paedophile," said a highly placed source.
"He does all the things to attract the children — the candy, the video games, the animals. It's a classic situation. The police think he did it and the child custody people think he did it."
It is alleged that Jackson slept three-in-a-bed with his 13-year-old friend Jordan Chandler and the youngster's six-year-old brother Nicky at their father's California home.
Jordan's father Evan told investigators he had tape recorded the 35-year-old singer "fiddling" with Jordan at his Beverly Hills mansion, said the source.
He also revealed that June Chandler, Jordan's mother, spent more than £70,000 — $105,000 — on Jackson's credit card during trips to Europe with him.
"June Chandler has very wide eyes," added the source. "She dismissed the behaviour saying Jackson is eccentric which he is. But he's also got lots of charisma and she liked being in the spotlight. June could be charged with pandering.
"You get $105,000 — whether a guy gives you cash or a credit card to let you fiddle the kid, if someone believes that's what's happened that's pandering.
"There is also the possibility of charges of child endangerment."
The source denied that Evan, now re-married to a French woman by whom he had Nicky, was a dentist to the stars.

He claimed Evan was suspended after a string of complaints and only ever had one celebrity client.

Last night as Jackson appeared before thousands of screaming fans on the Singapore leg of his Dangerous tour the fresh revelations saw both sides reinforcing their legal teams.
There were unconfirmed reports in Los Angeles that police seized a picture of Jordan Chandler naked during their raid on Jackson's 2,700-acre Neverland estate last month.
But yesterday the star's private detective Anthony Pellicano hit back saying he had quizzed Jordan personally and the boy had denied ever being molested by Jackson.

The teenager allegedly told Pellicano he had never seen Jackson naked because the singer was shy and always wore pyjamas, socks and a hat in bed.
The source said: "Pellicano is doing his job. He's put up a smokescreen. He's a classy gumshoe."
He also told how Jackson's relationship with Jordan developed after they met at the offices of June Chandler's current husband, car rental tycoon Dave Schwartz.
"Dave called June and Jordan and said: 'Michael Jackson is on his way over to rent a car. Would you like to come over and meet him?'" said the source.
"They came over and met Michael and that was the end of it. But about a week later Michael called Jordie from Europe and kept calling.
"They did talk and would talk sometimes for up to three hours and that's how it started.
"I don't remember the sequence but he had him up to Neverland and took the two of them to the Music Awards in Monaco.
"Jackson introduced them to the royal family. He wined and dined the mother and Jordie.
"He bought tons of gifts for Jordie and his sister Lilly. Dave never went. "Dave comes home one evening and finds Michael sleeping in one of the rooms in his house — just staying the night.
"Dave was very much against it. He didn't like it when they went to Monaco.
"He told June he didn't want Michael to buy her anything. He made sure she had money to buy her own things.
"Then the kid went over to visit his father.
"Michael went and stayed there three or four days in the same room, in the same bed with Jordan and Nicky, who is Evan's kid with his present wife.
The source continued: "Evan has said he spent tens of thousands of dollars on investigators.
"He called June one time and said he had a tape recorder under the bed when Michael Jackson was staying at his house and he had a tape of Jordan and Michael fiddling in bed.
"So June said to him: 'My God, Evan, I've got to hear that.' He said: 'I "And then he told her he had her house bugged and he had all these tapes of conversations that Michael made coming put of the house and coming into the house.
"He said he had a ton of evidence that no one has seen as far as I know.
"After that Evan and Michael did not seem to get on too well.
"He either asked Michael to build him a new house or Michael said: 'Why don't I build you a new house that has room for me to stay'.
"I don't know which way it went — it depends on who you talk to." The source went on: "At that point in time — we are now up in early July of this year — Evan calls Dave and tells him he thinks there is something wrong with Michael.
"Dave says no way. He is just a teenager himself and they are just doing teenage type of things.
"Dave's frame of mind was that Evan was totally full of crap and there was nothing to it and he was trying to make something out of something that doesn't exist.
"Evan then goes out and hires himself a (lawyer and goes to a psychiatrist, a so-called forensic psychiatrist.
"He gives him a hypothetical set of facts — he's got a big-time star, 35 years old, who befriends this 13-year-old boy and wants to sleep in the same bed with the boy. The star wines and dines the mother.
"The psychiatrist's analysis of this is: 'If the boy came in and told me this I would have to report it to the child abuse hotline. I think he is molesting the boy'. The father wipes out the name of the psychiatrist and any identifying information on the letter which is dated July 16.
"He calls the mother, he calls Dave and he calls Michael himself.
"He says: 'I want to have a meeting tomorrow in the morning at 8.30 — not at 8.31, not at 8.32.'
"And basically he said we're going to have this meeting at 8.30 tomorrow and this doomsday machine is going to go off and it's going to ruin everyone."
But the story was swept aside by the Jackson legal team.
Pellicano said he questioned Jordan himself.
"He said it never happened. I asked him point blank whether Michael molested him and he replied: 'Never'," said Pellicano.
"I asked him if he had ever seen Michael naked and he said: 'No, Michael was too shy'."
Pellicano refused to say why the singer wanted to sleep with young boys but revealed that he had "lots of sleepovers with young boys and girls.
"The parents would be in the rooms. They would sit and watch cartoons till late in the morning.
"When they are at Neverland they play and go on the rides for hours. It's a fun place for them and they crash into bed." The source explained the tug of love between Evan and June over Jordan, which sparked the abuse inquiry, began when the teenager failed to return to the Schwartz househould.
"By the beginning of August Evan hadn't returned him to his mother," he said. "Evan refused to let the mother talk to him except for one occasion when he was there.
"The kid seems fearful that he couldn't say
anything about all of
this unless his father
was there.
"Evan said: 'You're a lousy mother.' And then he said that June shouldn't have the kid at all.
"He forgot what he had let go on for a week in his own house."
"Then Evan said he was not going to return the kid and that's when the story about his demands for $20 million were released.
"Pellicano said he was going to give Chandler 350,000 for a movie development deal. He said it would cost many times more than that if they didn't and it wasn't really all that big a deal."


http://www.dougiethompson.com/michael-jackson-3-in-a-bed-shock.htm





Michael-Jackson-3-in-bed-70.jpg



[video=youtube;rn-n_Y-ISkY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn-n_Y-ISkY[/video]
 
^^That is sickening & the thing is it was not true. Where is this tape & where are you guys finding all this tabloid trash. You see that is why we needed that trial to put all these articles back in the backroom where they belong. A trial would dig into all these claims about tapes, conversations, movie backing, custody issues and expose that family for what they are.

Pellicano is saying that he would pay the 350,000 for the movie, because it was not a big deal. I guess behind that idea is the thought that it would be cheaper than a trial when you consider lawyer & investigator fees. Maybe they all thought a settlement would be cheaper which fraudsters always book on.

I must say these articles in this thread are really pissing me off.
 
Evan did claim on that taped phonecall he had recorded MJ and Jordan on the phone together, and Evan did have recording equipment.

But that proves his innocence. On the taped phonecall Evan says he has no idea what MJ and Jordan get up to, he has no idea if MJ molested anyone, and if these tapes exist they have never been used by anyone for anything.

So yeah I can believe Evan had tapes, but the fact that he never even tried to use them in his court cases shows they only exonerated MJ.
 
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Mark-Torbiner.jpg


Mark Torbiner, DMD
721 N. Sierra Drive

Beverly Hills, CA

Specialty: Anesthesia
Phone: 310-288-0911
Fax:
Email: mtorbiner@aol.com
Website:
Dental School: U Penn
Grad School: Brookdale Hosp
Membership: Member '91

http://www.bhaod.org/Members-List/?p=9

8d3bc0a398a0607b33852210_l.jpg


Before Chandler took control of his son, the only one making allegations against Jackson was Chandler himself—the boy had never accused the singer of any wrongdoing. That changed one day in Chandler’s Beverly Hills dental office.

In the presence of Chandler and Mark Torbiner, a dental anesthesiologist, the boy was administered the controversial drug sodium Amytal—which some mistakenly believe is a truth serum. And it was after this session that the boy first made his charges against Jackson. A newsman at KCBS-TV, in L.A., reported on May 3 of this year that Chandler had used the drug on his son, but the dentist claimed he did so only to pull his son’s tooth and that while under the drug’s influence, the boy came out with allegations. Asked for this article about his use of the drug on the boy, Torbiner replied: “If I used it, it was for dental purposes.”

The nature of Torbiner’s practice appears to have made it highly successful. “He boasts that he has $100 a month overhead and $40,000 a month income,” says Nylla Jones, a former patient of his. Torbiner doesn’t have an office for seeing patients; rather, he travels to various dental offices around the city, where he administers anesthesia during procedures.

This magazine has learned that the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration is probing another aspect of Torbiner’s business practices: He makes housecalls to administer drugs—mostly morphine and Demerol—not only postoperatively to his dental patients but also, it seems, to those suffering pain whose source has nothing to do with dental work. He arrives at the homes of his clients—some of them celebrities—carrying a kind of fishing-tackle box that contains drugs and syringes. At one time, the license plate on his Jaguar read “SLPYDOC.” According to Jones, Torbiner charges $350 for a basic ten-to-twenty-minute visit. In what Jones describes as standard practice, when it’s unclear how long Torbiner will need to stay, the client, anticipating the stupor that will soon set in, leaves a blank check for Torbiner to fill in with the appropriate amount.

In another instance, Torbiner came to the home of Nylla Jones, she says, and injected her with Demerol to help dull the pain that followed her appendectomy."


http://www.usnewslink.com/framedjackson.htm

This is why I believe Michael did the song, "Morphine," because of the Anesthesiologist, Mark Torbiner, and Evan Chandler, fellow Dentist and between the two of them, a supposed confession came out of Jordy Chandler!
"Morphine"

He got flat baby, Kick in the back baby, A heart attack baby, I need your body

A hot kiss honey,
He's just a bitch baby
You make me sick baby
So unrelying

I'm such a swine baby
All down the line daddy
I hate your kind baby
So unreliable

A hot buzz baby
He's one of us baby
Another drug baby
You so desire

Trust in me
Trust in me
Put all your trust in me
You're doin' morphine

Hoo!

They got place baby
Kicked in the face baby
You hate your race baby
You're just a liar

Your every lick baby
Your dog's a bitch baby
You make me sick baby
You soul survivor

She never cut from me
She never cut baby
I had to work baby
You just a rival

Always to please daddy
Right up and leave daddy
You're thorwing shame daddy
So undesirable

Trust in me
Just in me
Put all your trsut in me
You're doin' morphine

Go'on babe

Relax
This won't hurt you
Before I put it in
Close your eyes and count to ten
Don't cry
I won't convert you
There's no need to dismay
Close your eyes and drift away

Demerol
Demerol
Oh God he's taking demerol
Demerol
Demerol
Oh God he's taking demerol

He's tried
Hard to convince her
To be over what he had
Today he wants it twice as bad
Don't cry
I won't resent you
Yesterday you had his trust
Today he's taking twice as much

Demerol
Demerol
Oh God he's taking demerol
Hee-hee-hee
Demerol
Demerol
Oh my Oh God it's Demerol
Hee
Oooh

Oh!

He got shit baby
Your dog's a bitch baby
You make me sick baby
You are a liar

Is truth a game daddy
To win the fame baby
It's all the same baby
You're so reliable

Trust in me
Trust in me
Put all your trust in me
She's doin' morphine

Hoo!

You just sit around just talkin' nothing
You're takin' morphine
Hoo!
Go'on baby
You just sit around just talking about it
You're takin' morphine
Hoo-hoo!
Just sit around just talking nothing about it
You're takin' morphine
You just sit around just talking about it
You're taking morphine
You just sit around just talkin' nothin'
And takin' morphine

Hoo-hoo
I'm going down baby
You're talkin' Morphine

Go'on baby!
Hoo!
Hoo!
Morphine!
Do it!
Hoo!
He's takin' morphine
Morphine!
Morphine!
 
Evan supposedly taping MJ and Jordan was just another way for Evan to blackmail MJ. But, didn't work. And what parent if he truly believed his child was being molested would let it happen again by inviting the abuser over so he can tape it? :blink:
 
Evan did claim on that taped phonecall he had recorded MJ and Jordan on the phone together, and Evan did have recording equipment.

But that proves his innocence. On the taped phonecall Evan says he has no idea what MJ and Jordan get up to, he has no idea if MJ molested anyone, and if these tapes exist they have never been used by anyone for anything.

So yeah I can believe Evan had tapes, but the fact that he never even tried to use them in his court cases shows they only exonerated MJ.

How about the tapes about foundling that the article talks about. Was there any evidence of such information on a tape?
 
Petrarose;3766986 said:
How about the tapes about foundling that the article talks about. Was there any evidence of such information on a tape?

No. Actually, in Ray's book it's claimed when Evan claimed he bugged Jordan's room that was a lie.
Evan is quoted telling Jordan:

"Just so you know, I had your bedroom at Mom's house bugged and your phone tapped. I know everything you and Michael did. This isn't about that, this is about lying. Do you understand?"

Evan had done none of those things. "I was sitting there lecturing him about lying and then proceeded to lie to him. But I was desperate. What choice did I have? I knew he wasn't going to come right out and tell me. I prayed he would, but I knew he wouldn't. As far as I was concerned it was a matter of life and death for my son — emotionally speaking.

Jordie listened to his father politely, as he always had, and then nodded yes, he understood. "He gave no indication he was even remotely concerned," Evan remembered. "His performance was spectacular. For a moment, I wondered if my suspicions were wrong.

Now, two things are possible:

1) Evan really lied to Jordan about having bugged his room.
2) Evan did bug Jordan's room, only the tapes did not produce any evidence against Michael - on the contrary, they showed that nothing untoward happened.

Given the fact how crazy and obsessed Evan was with his idea that Michael and Jordan had a sexual relationship, given the fact he told about taping conversations in the Schwartz convo (for example, when he said he would go to the meeting with Michael with a tape recorder), I actually think, like La Cienega, that he probably did bug Jordan's room, only the tapes prove nothing but Michael's innocence, therefore in the hindsight he claimed it was a lie that he bugged Jordan's room.
 
^ Which ever one it was it just proves even more that Evan was desperate to get what HE wanted, which was obviously money. Doing 1. would be a father scaring his child with a lie. Number 2. Would be a parent allegedly puttin his own child in danger to get what he wanted on some tape. I know that would have made someone like Sneedon happy. But, anyone with sense wouldn't be happy with such a perverse thing by trying to take justice in to their own hands.

To bad the media would never admit to how crazy Evan Chandler behavior was. They only have time to point the finger at MJ cause he equals money for them. I'm sure they have nothing but thanks for the Chandlers since 93 for making their jobs so much easier. :angry:
 
Now, two things are possible:

1) Evan really lied to Jordan about having bugged his room.
2) Evan did bug Jordan's room, only the tapes did not produce any evidence against Michael - on the contrary, they showed that nothing untoward happened.

Given the fact how crazy and obsessed Evan was with his idea that Michael and Jordan had a sexual relationship, given the fact he told about taping conversations in the Schwartz convo (for example, when he said he would go to the meeting with Michael with a tape recorder), I actually think, like La Cienega, that he probably did bug Jordan's room, only the tapes prove nothing but Michael's innocence, therefore in the hindsight he claimed it was a lie that he bugged Jordan's room.

Victor Gutierrez's book is useful in these ways because in order to support his messed up stories, he used photos and documents he'd gotten from the Chandler's - it seems many believe if he had these documents, he MUST have been telling the truth about everything else.

Of course, in all the documents there's not one thing which shows any proof of molestation. It seems they kept track of everything but were incapable of finding even the most basic of things to try to prove their case.

But Victor photographed two things: guns Evan had in his home, and telephone recording equipment Evan had.

We know Evan really did keep guns, Ray even brags about it, and he finally shot himself in the head with one. So I believe the telephone recording equipment too, and as Respect says, Evan had also taped one of the meetings with MJ.

Which means to me that yes, Evan recorded MJ/Jordan and those tapes exonerated MJ, which is why nobody has ever heard about them, and why Evan makes sure to claim it was really a lie in his book - nobody had ever claimed it was true, so out of all the things on the tape he should've been claiming were lies, he made it a point to deny that one.

There are definitely no tapes which have MJ fondling Jordan on them.

And also, Nick was never alleged to have been abused. I wonder if in a crazy moment Evan contemplated also claiming Nick had been abused though, in order to justify why MJ slept in the room with both Jordan and Nick, which makes it seem like a slumber thing, and not like a creepy pedophile thing.
 
^^Thanks guys. Now the doctor who administered the anesthetic, it is not clear if he is saying he heard the child speak about the allegations after he administered the drug. Is he saying what the dad told him in that article ^^.
 
la_ cienega said:
So I believe the telephone recording equipment too, and as Respect says, Evan had also taped one of the meetings with MJ.

Yes, me too. I think people forget what a massive thing this was to accuse mj, the biggest star on the planet, of child molestation. He would be told by his lawyers that he needed as much evidence as possible.
 
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In ATG they basically admit they had no evidence. One of the reasons they give as to why they did not want to go to court was that it would have been their word vs. MJ's and no one would have believed them. (Funny how all those axe-to-grind employees always gave the same excuse as to why they did not report to authorities the alleged criminal activity they allegedly witnessed.)
 
^^Thanks guys. Now the doctor who administered the anesthetic, it is not clear if he is saying he heard the child speak about the allegations after he administered the drug. Is he saying what the dad told him in that article ^^.

I'm confused. Torbiner has never said anything about hearing anything.

He just didn't deny the drug had been used.
 
Evan spoke to Jordan alone after his tooth was removed, best way to get his son to say what he wanted. If Torbiner was in the room I'm sure we would have known about that by now and I'm sure Sneedon would have loved for that man to have been a witness to that alleged "confession."
 
AliCat;3766952 said:
Mark-Torbiner.jpg


Mark Torbiner, DMD
721 N. Sierra Drive

Beverly Hills, CA

Specialty: Anesthesia
Phone: 310-288-0911
Fax:
Email: mtorbiner@aol.com
Website:
Dental School: U Penn
Grad School: Brookdale Hosp
Membership: Member '91

http://www.bhaod.org/Members-List/?p=9

8d3bc0a398a0607b33852210_l.jpg


Before Chandler took control of his son, the only one making allegations against Jackson was Chandler himself—the boy had never accused the singer of any wrongdoing. That changed one day in Chandler’s Beverly Hills dental office.

In the presence of Chandler and Mark Torbiner, a dental anesthesiologist, the boy was administered the controversial drug sodium Amytal—which some mistakenly believe is a truth serum. And it was after this session that the boy first made his charges against Jackson. A newsman at KCBS-TV, in L.A., reported on May 3 of this year that Chandler had used the drug on his son, but the dentist claimed he did so only to pull his son’s tooth and that while under the drug’s influence, the boy came out with allegations. Asked for this article about his use of the drug on the boy, Torbiner replied: “If I used it, it was for dental purposes.”

The nature of Torbiner’s practice appears to have made it highly successful. “He boasts that he has $100 a month overhead and $40,000 a month income,” says Nylla Jones, a former patient of his. Torbiner doesn’t have an office for seeing patients; rather, he travels to various dental offices around the city, where he administers anesthesia during procedures.

This magazine has learned that the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration is probing another aspect of Torbiner’s business practices: He makes housecalls to administer drugs—mostly morphine and Demerol—not only postoperatively to his dental patients but also, it seems, to those suffering pain whose source has nothing to do with dental work. He arrives at the homes of his clients—some of them celebrities—carrying a kind of fishing-tackle box that contains drugs and syringes. At one time, the license plate on his Jaguar read “SLPYDOC.” According to Jones, Torbiner charges $350 for a basic ten-to-twenty-minute visit. In what Jones describes as standard practice, when it’s unclear how long Torbiner will need to stay, the client, anticipating the stupor that will soon set in, leaves a blank check for Torbiner to fill in with the appropriate amount.

In another instance, Torbiner came to the home of Nylla Jones, she says, and injected her with Demerol to help dull the pain that followed her appendectomy."


http://www.usnewslink.com/framedjackson.htm

This is why I believe Michael did the song, "Morphine," because of the Anesthesiologist, Mark Torbiner, and Evan Chandler, fellow Dentist and between the two of them, a supposed confession came out of Jordy Chandler!
"Morphine"

He got flat baby, Kick in the back baby, A heart attack baby, I need your body

A hot kiss honey,
He's just a bitch baby
You make me sick baby
So unrelying

I'm such a swine baby
All down the line daddy
I hate your kind baby
So unreliable

A hot buzz baby
He's one of us baby
Another drug baby
You so desire

Trust in me
Trust in me
Put all your trust in me
You're doin' morphine

Hoo!

They got place baby
Kicked in the face baby
You hate your race baby
You're just a liar

Your every lick baby
Your dog's a bitch baby
You make me sick baby
You soul survivor

She never cut from me
She never cut baby
I had to work baby
You just a rival

Always to please daddy
Right up and leave daddy
You're thorwing shame daddy
So undesirable

Trust in me
Just in me
Put all your trsut in me
You're doin' morphine

Go'on babe

Relax
This won't hurt you
Before I put it in
Close your eyes and count to ten
Don't cry
I won't convert you
There's no need to dismay
Close your eyes and drift away

Demerol
Demerol
Oh God he's taking demerol
Demerol
Demerol
Oh God he's taking demerol

He's tried
Hard to convince her
To be over what he had
Today he wants it twice as bad
Don't cry
I won't resent you
Yesterday you had his trust
Today he's taking twice as much

Demerol
Demerol
Oh God he's taking demerol
Hee-hee-hee
Demerol
Demerol
Oh my Oh God it's Demerol
Hee
Oooh

Oh!

He got shit baby
Your dog's a bitch baby
You make me sick baby
You are a liar

Is truth a game daddy
To win the fame baby
It's all the same baby
You're so reliable

Trust in me
Trust in me
Put all your trust in me
She's doin' morphine

Hoo!

You just sit around just talkin' nothing
You're takin' morphine
Hoo!
Go'on baby
You just sit around just talking about it
You're takin' morphine
Hoo-hoo!
Just sit around just talking nothing about it
You're takin' morphine
You just sit around just talking about it
You're taking morphine
You just sit around just talkin' nothin'
And takin' morphine

Hoo-hoo
I'm going down baby
You're talkin' Morphine

Go'on baby!
Hoo!
Hoo!
Morphine!
Do it!
Hoo!
He's takin' morphine
Morphine!
Morphine!

Thanks for this idea that Morphine is referring to Evan putting Jordan in the chair and doping him up--I agree there has to be a reference to that here. "YOU ARE A LIAR." a big fat disgusting LIAR.
 
Victor Gutierrez's book is useful in these ways because in order to support his messed up stories, he used photos and documents he'd gotten from the Chandler's - it seems many believe if he had these documents, he MUST have been telling the truth about everything else.

Of course, in all the documents there's not one thing which shows any proof of molestation. It seems they kept track of everything but were incapable of finding even the most basic of things to try to prove their case.

But Victor photographed two things: guns Evan had in his home, and telephone recording equipment Evan had.

We know Evan really did keep guns, Ray even brags about it, and he finally shot himself in the head with one. So I believe the telephone recording equipment too, and as Respect says, Evan had also taped one of the meetings with MJ.

Which means to me that yes, Evan recorded MJ/Jordan and those tapes exonerated MJ, which is why nobody has ever heard about them, and why Evan makes sure to claim it was really a lie in his book - nobody had ever claimed it was true, so out of all the things on the tape he should've been claiming were lies, he made it a point to deny that one.

There are definitely no tapes which have MJ fondling Jordan on them.

And also, Nick was never alleged to have been abused. I wonder if in a crazy moment Evan contemplated also claiming Nick had been abused though, in order to justify why MJ slept in the room with both Jordan and Nick, which makes it seem like a slumber thing, and not like a creepy pedophile thing.

Diane Demon gives a rundown of the dentist chair confession scenario and she had access to Evan's police report and a lot of leaked stuff. She says that Evan only TOLD Jordan that re taping it all to get him to confess. He lied to his son. I will try and find her account and post it here.
 
i hope jordy boy gets sued for every penny, i hate how hes been livin on Mj's dime:mat:
 
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