Latest on MJJC

Verdict Reached: AEG NOT Liable - Discussion- Katherine Jackson vs AEG

Final verdict

  • AEG liable

    Votes: 78 48.4%

  • AEG not liable

    Votes: 83 51.6%
  • Total voters
    161
Status
Not open for further replies.
Sometimes I think that the Jackson family are their own worst enemies, they just seem to mess everything up.

I'm a Michael Jackson fan not a Jackson fan.
 
Admin note: Please don't derail the thread with, arguing and discussing, Jackson, Sony, Estate or AEG Plants. The arguing only causes unnecessary division ( Members here will not be implicated by such nonsense based on their varied opinions) So further posts of that nature will just be deleted without notice.
 
krikzil;3916801 said:
Yes. I'm one who doesn't think MJ was some helpless being; I think Michael Jackson was a force to be reckoned with. I do actually think AEG applied pressure, but the pressure they applied on Murray was at cross-purposes to that from MJ.
Click to expand...

I am sure Michael was the force but he also was just one man…

I absolutely agree with the verdict as AEG did not know and it was more privet matters than business.

But I understand when people say he was “forced”. He was not a puppet no doubts but he had his own goals to reach !!! And he wanted to do the best of what he could. I think we all can agree on that.

We know that he asked for MORE TIME for rehearsals or maybe for solving other issues.
Prince testified about that.

He needed time AEG didn’t give him, so he took certain measures to do what he had to do and wanted to do. I doubt that to take dangerous medication was an easy decision for him.

To my understanding at one point AEG did fine work and they did too much for TII project not to care about Michael’s health. I was surprised they simply didn’t give him his time…
He was not just always saying “I am fine”, he asked for more time for a reason !!!

I was wondering why “no more time” until I’ve read Karen’s letter… I know it’s nothing but speculations but IF AEG thought that Michael was going to “leave” the project than all their further actions make sense to me. Maybe I’m wrong. But IMO there’s just much more to say apart of irrelevant for the Trial “drug addiction” stories and who hired who.
 
I know Michael wanted more time for rehearsal but a delay/cancellation would have been a disaster from a business standpoint. First of all the press would have jumped on the announcement and trashed Michael to kingdom come. Secondly a lot of fans would have been upset. With TII being a residency I’m sure fans from across the globe were planning to come from great distance and had planned time off from jobs in order to attend. AEG knew Michael was a perfectionist and they also knew he was having an attack of nerves about performing again live. They probably reasoned that any glitches in the opening of the shows would be worked out as the concerts progressed and MJ gained more confidence.
 
Victory22;3917078 said:
I know Michael wanted more time for rehearsal but a delay/cancellation would have been a disaster from a business standpoint. First of all the press would have jumped on the announcement and trashed Michael to kingdom come. Secondly a lot of fans would have been upset. With TII being a residency I’m sure fans from across the globe were planning to come from great distance and had planned time off from jobs in order to attend. AEG knew Michael was a perfectionist and they also knew he was having an attack of nerves about performing again live. They probably reasoned that any glitches in the opening of the shows would be worked out as the concerts progressed and MJ gained more confidence.
Click to expand...

Yes, of course. So isn’t it some kind of “he was forced”.

To be a perfectionist doesn’t mean to be perfect only on stage.
IMO Michael wanted to do NOT only concerts perfect but also include all things that you’ve just pointed out into his list of perfect things.
IMO for perfectionist ALL these things matters NOT less than singing and dancing …

And still THIS perfectionist knowing all “discomfort” it will bring his fans he worked so hard for – He ASKED for more time!!! NOBODY wanted EVERYTHING to be perfect more than Michael and still he asked for more time. He knew something was wrong, I think.

At some point it doesn’t matter what AEG thought and what conclusions they made out of the air.
If the artist says “wait” they better wait, no matter what there should have been some dialog and solution.
I understand that to blame AEG in Michael’s death is way too much but we do not know how things would go if they could agree with Michael and simply respect his wish. It could be all the same result but maybe there would be at least NO Murray and the most important thing would be “saved” – Michael’s life.
 
I still want to know why does Katherine think AEG is to blame and not herself? she saw MJ in April, May and June. Did her son look well to her then or at least well enough for these 50 shows?
 
Kaymon if she was sincere she would have gone after murray. How is it possible to be as angry with aeg the so called employer as she claimed to be while giving the doctor, who DID leave her son unattended for an hour under the influence busy talking to strippers , a free pass? There is nothing sincere about her lawsuit .
 
Last edited:
It is easily possible for a very old woman like KJ is!

Please keep in mind KJ really is an old lady and surely easily to be influenced!

I don't wanna excuse her or give her an easy pass! No way!

However do we really have enough background knowledge (and that I mean as real knowledge not coming from more than only doubtful media through 'insiders' selling stories) to jump to judgement? I doubt that honestly.

KJs responses even in the stand, her answers... seemed more than only one time to me pretty much... well let me call it ' very much not sharp minded'. She wasn't even able to find the easiest logical conclusions sometimes and did respond only stubborn or with 'tiredness' as an escape.

Again it's certainly not a free pass I want to give her... but I'm very very sure it's the ppl behind her who deserve more your critical judgement. I'm almost a 100% sure it wasn't Katherines decision not to go after Murray. It was her cubs and lawyers (both pretty money hungry) who told her let's go after AEG because we want to know the 'truth'! Let's not go after Murray cuz he will not tell us more... and also then they will not let us go after AEG that easily anymore!
 
Allusio;3917084 said:
And still THIS perfectionist knowing all “discomfort” it will bring his fans he worked so hard for – He ASKED for more time!!! NOBODY wanted EVERYTHING to be perfect more than Michael and still he asked for more time. He knew something was wrong, I think.
Click to expand...

Did he ask AEG directly or was he just complaining at home? This "more time" stuff should have been figured out BEFORE the contract was signed IMO. Another very important thing that SHOULD have been done before signing contract, was to make sure he wouldn't be doing more than one show a week! This should have been the #1 clause in his contract and should have been established before he signed it.

Not sign the contract and THEN start complaining about the shows being too close. He knew himself better than anyone and his insomnia issues - this should've been sorted out before he signed anything. He should've gotten a better lawyer and not rely on Thome's lawyer.

Soundmind;3917100 said:
Kaymon if she was sincere she would have gone after murray. How is it possible to be as angry with aeg the so called employer as she claimed to be while giving the doctor, who DID leave her son unattended for an hour under the influence busy talking to strippers , a free pass? There is nothing sincere about her lawsuit .
Click to expand...

Completely agree! The fact that they are showing so much more hate for AEG and Estate than they've ever shown Murray is very telling about what they care the most!
 
serendipity said:
Did he ask AEG directly or was he just complaining at home? This "more time" stuff should have been figured out BEFORE the contract was signed IMO. Another very important thing that SHOULD have been done before signing contract, was to make sure he wouldn't be doing more than one show a week! This should have been the #1 clause in his contract and should have been established before he signed it.

Not sign the contract and THEN start complaining about the shows being too close. He knew himself better than anyone and his insomnia issues - this should've been sorted out before he signed anything. He should've gotten a better lawyer and not rely on Thome's lawyer.



Completely agree! The fact that they are showing so much more hate for AEG and Estate than they've ever shown Murray is very telling about what they care the most!
Click to expand...
have to agree with everything u said
 
KJ is a mystery to me, but generally speaking the rule in dysfunctional and abusive families is secrecy--no one can talk about it. MJ courageously did talk about it, starting in 1988 in Moonwalk when he spoke openly about losing his childhood and even more in 1993 with Oprah when he talked about the beatings and he really never stopped talking about these 2 things once the genii was out of the bottle. Even in the statements he made that CM taped he said, "I had no childhood. I hurt." When Bashir asks him about it, and he covers his face wih his hands, you can see his pain.In the Oxford speech he starts to cry and asks for a tissue. He never really got over it IMO although he tried hard. It was like the Pepsi burn, only much worse--the pain and the consequences never went away. When he talked to the guy who wrote They Cage the Animals at Night (forgot his name), the guy who was an orphan and whose only stable friend (and parent) was a stuffed animal as he went from orphanage to foster homes, MJ said, "We're the same. I understand you."

So these are facts that will not go away--that MJ spoke openly about the pain of not having a childhood, of being the family breadwinner at such a young age, of having too much responsibility for a child, of working too hard for a child, and of missing the carefree childhood that he wanted, where he could play and be "free, free like the wind blows," to take his time and do what he wanted.

The fact that he went solo, never toured with his brothers after the Victory tour in 84-85, says so much. The fact that his will did not make anyone in his birth family a beneficiary except for his mother, and even KJ was a beneficiary for her lifetime only, says so much. The fact that he distanced himself from his family, not only by moving to Neverland, but even at Hayvenhurst he had his own entrance, his own kitchen, he did not need to go into the main house.

I sincerely hope and pray that there will not be an appeal effort, and if there is, that it will be denied. I feel like we as fans have been through the wringer with this trial, and now we have the verdict, it is time to move on IMO. I think we have lost Juror #27 from our forum, possibly b/c he was notified that an appeal might happen and what he was telling us might be used to further that appeal. Who knows? I really appreciated his joining us and I want to say a big THANK YOU if he is still around. Also, I suggest that he looks into MJ's book Dancing the Dream, as I think it really is such a testimony to MJ's beautiful intentions, sensitivity, intelligence, and love.
 
I want to move on from this trial too. We need to focus our attention on other things now. Murray will get out soon and who knows what he will say and do. Whether you agree with the verdict or not we all love Michael.
 
As I said, I'm not giving her a free pass, but to me it's up to Michael to judge her.
He has the background knowledge, we'll never have.
And in a way he did so before, because he was a sensitive, intelligent and sensible soul and he did give her guardianship for his children still knowing all the past of his very own experienced childhood.
Oh honestly I can't understand that decision still I can't wipe that just of the table cuz it suits my judgement now better. I have to take that into consideration.

I feel he'd be disappointed no end right now also... no doubt... but Katherine is an old woman and she appeared to be exactly that old and weak and suffering an immense loss in that trial. To me at least now she is used by some. And now she simply couldn't help it anymore as she appeared at the granny-napping incident and also now in front of court.
Yeah maybe in those years she could have... but that's not what's in question for me now and here.
She's used and now she simply can't help it (if she could and would... that's theoretical to me).

Again, it's not about giving her a free pass... it's a question of if we should really judge her hard and critically in a way we don't have to... and don't need to.

Like I'm not fighting with someone who doesn't have a chance anyways... not even half as much as I do somehow.
Feels to me like one of the Klitschkos would be boxing against a five year old boy somehow... *shrugs* just saying.
 
Last edited:
According to Panish's BHL interview, the plaintiffs fought against the wording of question two and the judge chose the phrasing which leaned towards the time of hire.

Panish also said the jurors wanted to ask questions during deliberations however, they did not.
 
Bubs said:
I agree with it, but according to KJ's own words, she never even talked about those issues with MJ.
Talking (motherly advice) and forcing 2 different things.




I don't buy it either. She was right there meddling with Allgood deal, and since Michael's passing, she has been making deals with various shady people outside of estate. She might comes across like old sweet lady, and is slow to speak, but that is what is in front, inside that woman is cold as ice.
Click to expand...

Cold as ice????? I think you have gone over the edge & it is very insulting.

wpid-130401112347-katherine-jackson-phone-gallery.jpg


showbiz-prince-katherine-jackson.jpg
 
shelly_webster said:
I am not defending her but you can't force an adult to get help.
Click to expand...


KJ does not get off that easy, she forced him to do the Pepsi add that ended up getting him burned and addicted. He didn't want to do it and he didn't want to do the Victory tour but that didn't stop Katherine from using all her power over him to get him to do it. If we hold KJ to the same standards she wants to hold AEG to she failed for decades to care or notice her son was in need of her help so I find her and Murray responsible. And yes I believe Katherine is both selfish and cold as ice.
 
Last edited:
thomas mesereau interview from october 3rd

[youtube]tUlCQMoTPk8[/youtube]
 
Katherine claims AEG didn't notify her or Joe when MJ was sick during rehearsals and if they had she and Joe would've been over there in a heartbeat. I don't believe that at all, because when Katherine was told about MJ's health issues from Joe himself she did absolutely nothing. Remember Joe said he and Leonard Rowe told KJ to go and check on MJ because he looked thin and frail and Leonard Rowe even said he told Katherine to go over his house, yet she refused. So how in the world can she blame AEG when she herself did nothing?
 
Jackson dedicated Dancing the Dream "with love" to his mother Katherine, and has an introduction written by his longtime friend Elizabeth Taylor.

“I wrote a book called Dancing The Dream. It was more autobiographical than Moonwalk, which I did with Mrs. Onassis. It wasn’t full of gossip and scandal and all that trash that people write, so I don’t think people paid much attention to it, but it came from my heart. It was essays, thoughts and things that I’ve thought about while on tour.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dancing_the_Dream

Mother

Eons of time I've been gestating
To take a form been hesitating
From the unmanifest this cosmic conception
On this earth a fantastic reception
And then one fateful August morn
From your being I was born
With tender love you nurtured a seed
To your own distress you paid no heed
Unmindful of any risk and danger
You decided upon this lonely stranger

Rainbows, clouds, the deep blue sky
Glittering birds that fly on high
Out of fragments you've made my whole
From the elements you fashioned my soul
Mother dear, you gave me life
Because of you, no struggle or strife
You gave me joy and position
Cared for me without condition
And if I ever change this world
It's from the emotions you've unfurl'd
Your compassion is so sweet and dear
Your finest feelings I can hear
I can sense your faintest notion
The wondrous magic of your love potion

And now that I have come so far
Met with every king and czar
Encountered every color and creed
Of every passion, every greed
I go back to that starry night
With not a fear for muscle or might
You taught me how to stand and fight
For every single wrong and right
Every day without a hold
I will treasure what you've mold
I will remember every kiss
Your sweet words I'll never miss
No matter where I go from here
You're in my heart, my mother dear.
 
Tygger;3917571 said:
Jackson dedicated Dancing the Dream "with love" to his mother Katherine, and has an introduction written by his longtime friend Elizabeth Taylor.

“I wrote a book called Dancing The Dream. It was more autobiographical than Moonwalk, which I did with Mrs. Onassis. It wasn’t full of gossip and scandal and all that trash that people write, so I don’t think people paid much attention to it, but it came from my heart. It was essays, thoughts and things that I’ve thought about while on tour.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dancing_the_Dream

Mother

Eons of time I've been gestating
To take a form been hesitating
From the unmanifest this cosmic conception
On this earth a fantastic reception
And then one fateful August morn
From your being I was born
With tender love you nurtured a seed
To your own distress you paid no heed
Unmindful of any risk and danger
You decided upon this lonely stranger

Rainbows, clouds, the deep blue sky
Glittering birds that fly on high
Out of fragments you've made my whole
From the elements you fashioned my soul
Mother dear, you gave me life
Because of you, no struggle or strife
You gave me joy and position
Cared for me without condition
And if I ever change this world
It's from the emotions you've unfurl'd
Your compassion is so sweet and dear
Your finest feelings I can hear
I can sense your faintest notion
The wondrous magic of your love potion

And now that I have come so far
Met with every king and czar
Encountered every color and creed
Of every passion, every greed
I go back to that starry night
With not a fear for muscle or might
You taught me how to stand and fight
For every single wrong and right
Every day without a hold
I will treasure what you've mold
I will remember every kiss
Your sweet words I'll never miss
No matter where I go from here
You're in my heart, my mother dear.
Click to expand...



I happen to think Mrs. Jackson DEEPLY loved MJ. I think she DEEPLY loves all her children, and get she wants to look out for all of them. A child is a mother’s child for life. Adult or not. That’s just how it is for most who have a loving relationship with their mother. My great grandmother, who was in her 90’s, still called my 70 year old grandfather her baby. So I get Mrs. Katherine wants to take care of all her children. It’s just her sacrificing MJ to do so that is the problem for many IMO. Even if you can rationalize her putting MJ in situations which have not been in his best interest, but only the family's, it’s impossible at least for me to reconcile how she’s tried to exploit his children. That adds a whole new dimension to her character that is very disturbing IMO.
 
Exactly gerryevans. I don't doubt her love for Michael. But it is worrying that she would use MINOR children to get money for her ADULT children.
And it is only a particular set of minor children. It is certainly not the minor children of the ADULTS who need supporting!
 
jrsfan said:
Cold as ice????? I think you have gone over the edge & it is very insulting.

wpid-130401112347-katherine-jackson-phone-gallery.jpg


showbiz-prince-katherine-jackson.jpg
Click to expand...

If you don't like word cold as ice, I'm willing to change it to cold and calculative.
What do you call a woman who was trusted by her beloved son in his last will and testament to take care of his kids in case of his passing, and then this woman goes on and sell those kids to porn producer?

Don't think photos with Prince is going to work as there are tons of photos KJ with Michael too.
I'm sorry to say, while Joe physically abused Michael, Katherine "I don't like to hear bad news" Jackson participated to it by doing nothing to stop him, and then she mentally abused Michael herself by emotionally blackmailing him to do things he didn't want to do.

Here is the link to KJ teatimony, post 55:
http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...-AEG-Live-Daily-Trial-Testimony-Summary/page4
Show me a part, any part of her testimony where she testified she did something for Michael? Her testimony is full what Michael did to her and how Michael gave her anything she wanted, how it hurts her that Michael is called lazy etc....
Show me the bit where she said what she did anything to him? If you don't find anything from her trial testimony, please be free to check her interviews with Oprah and others, and most recent;y Hello magazine. You ain't going to find anything from those either. Seemingly Michael only exists when she needed something or someone to take care of her. She is Michael's mother, not the other way round.

Btw, it is quite usual that if child have two abusive parents, (abusive can mean psychological or physical) abused child turns to the parent that hurts less, and doesn't realise the different type of abuse him/her receives from less abusive parent.
 
Bubs,

once again you hit the nail on the head. I've been saying the same thing for years... what did Katherine ever do for MJ? since he was 5 years old he was supporting the family so she took care of him from infant to 5 years old.. From then on he was a commodity and an ATM machine for the family. She has never said one thing she did for him.. it was always about what he could do for her . Her son was having cash flow issues, yet she wanted a $600,000.00 RV for what??? where does she go that she needs a Motor home? and like you said when MJ was sick and having tons of surgeries for his scalp who was there with him? not Katherine but Debbie Rowe and Karen Faye and whoever else holding his hand through these painful procedures.. she was no where to be found..
 


Dancing The Dream was 1992 published. We don't know when Michael wrote his poem "Mother".
Wheter that poem real reflected his mother or wheter it was an idealized imagination from a mother-child-hood --- we don't know.
In relation to "family's first thinking" are all 9 Children from Katherine brainwashed in their childhood and this is as an inoculation: it is there 'til to the end of life.

In any case at the latest 1992 Mrs. Jackson read this profound hymn of praise.
And nevertheless Mrs. Jackson was passiv as LaToya 1 year later said in this Jerusalem interview that she and her mother had seen Michael with cheques for parents from minor boys.
Michael was to this time in highest trouble due to the Chandler claim.
And his mother...... was silent and simply "not there".
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top