[Discussion] Sexual Abuse Claims Against MJ Estate - Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Well, how many sworn declarations denying any abuse of both men will the estate produce

So Egan does not go down the Wade route and says that when he gave his sworn declaration he was just unable and unwilling to realize he was abused by Neuman?

Unfortunately in Michael's case sworn declarations, depositions, police interviews, court testimonies never mattered. When it comes to him people are allowed to change their stories at will and many people still do not question these people's stories...

So in this case it was enough for Neuman's lawyer to show that Egan formerly said under oath that he was not abused by Neuman? I think it would be a huge injustice if Robson & Safechuck's allegations would be allowed to go ahead, but when it comes to Michael everything is possible with judgements. :ermm:

I hope once the evidence comes in, Michael's name is taken off in the same way that other guy was removed from the Hollywood molestation case. .

Just to be clear - I don't think Neuman has been dropped from the case by the judge because of the evidence. I think the accuser Egan voluntarily dropped his claims against Neuman.

With the old sworn statement and the new claims, he had conflicting statement and it makes it easy to argue that one of the statements is a lie and it's impossible to tell which one is the lie and which one is the truth. So Egan probably dismissed Neuman voluntarily for that reason. Yes Robson's old statements and testimony can be used against him to demonstrate him as a liar but I don't think it would cause him to drop his claims against the only person he accused. I think Wade's explanation would be he didn't realize it was abuse until his episode.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I have always felt that the sickos who accuse Michael are in reality molesters/pedophiles themselves. It is also very strange and nauseating that these people seem to "get off" with their perverted accusations. I agree with the person who posted that it seems as if these sickos WANTED kids to be abused by Michael for their OWN perversion. These people are truly a danger to society and should never be allowed around children, even their own.:puke:
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

^^ Oh thanks. So Egan dropped his claims against Neuman himself.

Yeah, in that case I do not see Robson doing the same, since, unlike Egan, he accuses only one person. On the other hand, it seems like Egan realized it makes it problematic for him if he brings in an allegation where he says one thing now, while he said the opposite earlier. So it shows it IS a problem, but of course Wade and James cannot do anything else, they cannot change what they said in the past, so they had to come up with some other explanation for why they changed their story and there comes the "we didn't realize we were abused until recently" explanation which is also an attempt to get them around statues of limitations.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

How convenient that Wade and Jimmy had their "realizations" so close to each other.
 
MJLovesyoumore;4017487 said:
Ok thank you. :)

I am also curious about this tweet by GH:

Greg Hildebrandt ‏@HildebrandtGreg · 59m
@CelineMMD @waderobsonallys Someone cashing in on MJ 1st accusation referenced me in an article. 100% lie! Just the facts Man! Critical.

Any idea who and what article he is talking about?

Yes, I do.

He meant the LeMarques.

I've spoken to Greg on the phone in the past - he won't deal with people he believes have bad intentions about Michael because he really liked Michael and is very protective of the time he spent with him.

But he told me that in 1993 when the LeMarques were selling stories that one of their stories suggested MJ had sex with a man who Greg believed was meant to be him, though the LeMarques were never explicit about it and Greg told me that he wished they had been because he would've sued them for it. So yeah, he knows first hand these people are lying greedy disgusting people and he has no time for all the BS about it.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Yes, I do.

He meant the LeMarques.

I've spoken to Greg on the phone in the past - he won't deal with people he believes have bad intentions about Michael because he really liked Michael and is very protective of the time he spent with him.

But he told me that in 1993 when the LeMarques were selling stories that one of their stories suggested MJ had sex with a man who Greg believed was meant to be him, though the LeMarques were never explicit about it and Greg told me that he wished they had been because he would've sued them for it. So yeah, he knows first hand these people are lying greedy disgusting people and he has no time for all the BS about it.

Sorry to ask, but what is the LeMarques?
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Sorry to ask, but what is the LeMarques?

The LeMarques, the chefs who sold the story to Baressi claiming they witnessed MJ with his hands outside Macaulay's pants for $100k, then inside the pants for $500k. They also claimed to witness basically MJ hosting child orgies and playing child porn in his theater, their story was the one Baressi resold last year to the Sunday People. Sneddon didn't even bother trying to get any of that crap entered into court. Baressi admitted to Friedman they'd made the whole thing up as they went along and that he hadn't given a shit about if it had been true or not, and neither did they.

In one of their original 1993 stories they claimed something about MJ having sex with a man who worked in the industry and Greg believed this man was meant to be him based on the description and because my guess is that Greg had met and remembered the LeMarques.

The utter irony of seeking someone like that to back up your story.

And thank God for people like Greg with integrity - he could've sold a story in 1993 claiming it was true, and instead he's disgusted with everyone involved and only wishes they'd been more explicit so he could've sued them for lying! As he says, making claims about a dead man? Cashing in on the first allegations. He knows they're full of shit.

If this case goes to court he would be a good witness to have, along with everyone else who has ever been offered money to claim crap about MJ.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Brilliant post! Made for great reading.

I will say that in respects to the pornography found at Neverland, I was under the impression that although it was found there, it didn't all belong to Michael, that it was a collection owned by also staff members and family members. Lots of people stayed at Neverland when MJ was away therefore he had no control over what items would be coming into the property nor indeed what items were being stolen from him as well.

I agree that homosexuality and pedophilia are not the same, but for many people it's easier to see a gay man being attracted to underage boys or crossing the line to underage boys than a heterosexual man. That's why there's such a desperation on these people's part (including the prosecution) to portray Michael as a gay man. This may be a politically incorrect opinion, but I think you can understand the logic behind linking the alleged abuse of male children to homosexuality. I mean, someone mentioned earlier the fact that many rock stars admit to have slept with underage girls at some point. Those are heterosexual men and no one calls them a pedophile for that, but if they indeed slept with underage girls, then they did cross the line at some point. No one would say heterosexuality=pedophilia, but if you are a heterosexual man and you cross the line then you will abuse underage girls and not boys. And if you are a gay man who crosses the line then you will abuse boys, not girls. So it's a bit more complicated IMO. But I think the real pedophiles are who are exclusively attracted to children and not attracted to adults of any gender at all. That certainly does not have anything to do with terms like heterosexuality or homosexuality.

Haters (including the prosecution) don't know where to go with Michael. Their whole narrative is so inconsistent. They tried to say MJ was gay, based on a couple of art photo books with nude males, but then the prosecution was forced to parade around dozens of heterosexual magazines in court, because that's what Michael's real porn was - all heterosexual. So they made up this whole narrative about Michael only keeping it to show it to boys. A man who is well documented to have been interested in art photography having a couple of art photo books with nude males means he was gay, but dozens of heterosexual porn magazines and DVDs do not mean that he liked women and that it was his actual sexual interest. It's just a desperate, desperate narrative.

Then the age factor. Wade and James now claim Michael lost interest in them and stopped abusing them as soon as they reached puberty. So that would be a classic pedophile who is interested exclusively in children. But, in the same breath the prosecution and haters also tried to use Brett Barnes' testimony against Michael when he said he slept in the same bed as Michael until he was 19. I have also seen haters trying to interpret something into a trip that Omer was on with Michael in 2003. And Omer was 19 and 20 at the time. Haters and the media also like to embrace any "gay lover" story about Michael - from Jason Pfeiffer to Ian Halperin and Scott Thorson. So which one is it? Was Michael a classic pedo, who stopped abusing children when they reached puberty, or was he a gay man who liked it young and crossed the line at times? (BTW, it also shows the hypocrisy of the media. They will deny linking pedophilia and homosexuality, because they would be called out by gay organizations if they openly did. But then what was the purpose of it when, for example, in 2004 the National Enquirer paid Scott Thorson to say he had a sexual relationship with Michael? It's clear that for many in the media to portray Michael as a gay man brings them closer to be able to portray him as a pedo. Gay organizations should actually notice that and be very offended by it...)

But to be honest, I don't think haters are too interested in bringing consistency into their logic. They know that salaciousness in itself can work a number on many people's minds and it does not have to make much sense - as long as there is a shock factor and a "ewww" factor you can get many people believe it, because to be honest most people are not very deep thinkers, they just judge on an emotional basis and surface stuff.

As for haters motives. Of course, they aren't a homogenous group, they probably have many different motives. I do think that most of them are mental cases. You do not obsess about hating someone so much if you do not have mental issues. And no, it's not about the children to them and it's not about child abuse to them, because they do not care about any other child abuse case (only in how to link it to MJ). They harass people online, they hack people's accounts - that's not normal behavior. There are obviously deep seated issues with these people - what these issues are is anyone's guess. The leader of the WR support group, Michael Par-whatever his name is, claims on his FB that he is a gay man. He also has a brother who seems to be a member of some fundamentalist religious group. That in itself (a gay man in a fundamentalist religious family) could mean some type of dynamics and problems within his family, for example. I'm not saying this is definitely his problem, but it's definitely rooted in something that is personal to these people and it's more about their own psychological issues than about Michael. Unfortunately they found Michael to project their issues on and to use as a punch bag.

I do think that some of these people might have been abused as children and some others battle with pedophiliac thoughts. Some of the language they use is definitely disturbing as they borrow NAMBLA arguments and language sometimes. And others are just plain ol' haters. Every celebrity has haters and I guess the bigger the star is the bigger the hate is. It can have many different reasons, including jealousy of a certain celebrity. And I think it also gives them a sense of power to be able to sway opinion on a world famous star and that they can contribute to ruining someone's reputation who is that famous. And most of these people are just plain, classic bullies IMO who like to see others suffer (ie. Michael's children, friends, fans) and that makes them feel better about themselves.
 
seany;4018488 said:
I will say that in respects to the pornography found at Neverland, I was under the impression that although it was found there, it didn't all belong to Michael, that it was a collection owned by also staff members and family members. Lots of people stayed at Neverland when MJ was away therefore he had no control over what items would be coming into the property nor indeed what items were being stolen from him as well.

I'm not sure why fans try to say it was not Michael's porn and that it belonged to staff and other people. There is absolutely no indication it did. They were found in places such as Michael's nightstand, in a box at the base of his bed, in a briefcase in a closet of his bedroom and in his bathrooms. His fingerprints were on them and it was admitted by Mez that they were his:

18 The prosecutor told you that there were
19 girlie-type magazines and sexually explicit material
20 in Mr. Jackson’s home, and there were. Mr. Jackson
21 will freely admit that he does read girlie magazines
22 from time to time. And what he does is he sends
23 someone to the local market, and they pick up
24 Playboy and they pick up Hustler, and he has read
25 them from time to time.

There is nothing wrong with an adult man owning legal adult magazines and DVDs.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

^^ Oh thanks. So Egan dropped his claims against Neuman himself.

yep that's wha I believe. TMZ article was a little confusing but other articles had much more information.

Sex Abuse Case Against David Neuman Withdrawn
Plaintiff Michael Egan III, who sued director Bryan Singer and three Hollywood executives alleging teen sex abuse in Hawaii in 1999, has voluntarily dismissed his suit against one of the men, David Neuman
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/david-neuman-sex-abuse-case-709466

Yeah, in that case I do not see Robson doing the same, since, unlike Egan, he accuses only one person.

yep. Estate still can and most probably will use Robson's conflicting statements against him but I'm not expecting a voluntarily dismissal from Robson.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Yes, it was very obvious from the article Egan dropped his lawsuit against one of the accused, when a sworn statement surfaced of him denying that particular person did anything wrong to him. TMZ said such a declaration was devastating to his case, so why they don't use the same language when they comment on Wade's case?
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Yes, it was very obvious from the article Egan dropped his lawsuit against one of the accused, when a sworn statement surfaced of him denying that particular person did anything wrong to him. TMZ said such a declaration was devastating to his case, so why they don't use the same language when they comment on Wade's case?

actually they did

http://www.tmz.com/2013/05/16/wade-robson-says-he-never-forgot-but-he-denied-specifics-at-trial/

Wade Robson
Says He Never Forgot ...
But Denied Specifics at Trial
5/16/2013 7:21 AM PDT BY TMZ STAFF
EXCLUSIVE
051613_wade_lied_launch
Wade Robson just said on TV ... he never forgot what Michael Jackson did to him -- he just didn't know it was wrong until recently ... but Wade's testimony in 2005 suggests if he didn't forget, he might have been lying.

Robson said on "Today" Michael performed sexual acts on him and vice versa when he was a child.

Wade told Matt Lauer on "Today," "I've never forgot one moment of what Michael did to me but I was psychologically and emotionally completely unable and unwilling to understand that it was sexual abuse."

But we've looked at the trial transcript from the 2005 molestation case, and Wade was asked very specific questions about the physical contact he had with MJ.

Prosecutor Ron Zonen grilled Robson on cross examination and asked very specific questions:

-- Zonen: Mr. Jackson would periodically kiss you.
-- Robson: No
-- Zonen: Periodically hug you?
-- Robson: Yes
-- Zonen: Touch you?
-- Robson: Hug me.
-- Zonen: Did he ever kiss your lips
-- Robson: No
-- Zonen: On occasions you stayed in bed with Mr. Jackson would you ever cuddle in bed?
-- Robson: No
-- Zonen: Would you lie next to one another?
-- Robson: No
-- Zonen: Would you touch?
-- Robson: No

Short story ... Robson says he "never forgot" anything Michael did to him ... he just didn't know it was wrong. So if he never forgot, did he lie on the stand or is he making it up now? Fair question.


Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2013/05/16/wade-...t-he-denied-specifics-at-trial/#ixzz349k76gZW

and even called him out on their TMZ Live as well - start from 2 minute mark

http://www.tmz.com/2013/05/16/wade-robson-michael-jackson-molestation-today-show-video/
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Yes, I have to say, so far at least TMZ actually seems to have a sceptical tone about these allegations.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

actually they did

http://www.tmz.com/2013/05/16/wade-robson-says-he-never-forgot-but-he-denied-specifics-at-trial/

Wade Robson
Says He Never Forgot ...
But Denied Specifics at Trial
5/16/2013 7:21 AM PDT BY TMZ STAFF
EXCLUSIVE
051613_wade_lied_launch
Wade Robson just said on TV ... he never forgot what Michael Jackson did to him -- he just didn't know it was wrong until recently ... but Wade's testimony in 2005 suggests if he didn't forget, he might have been lying.

Robson said on "Today" Michael performed sexual acts on him and vice versa when he was a child.

Wade told Matt Lauer on "Today," "I've never forgot one moment of what Michael did to me but I was psychologically and emotionally completely unable and unwilling to understand that it was sexual abuse."

But we've looked at the trial transcript from the 2005 molestation case, and Wade was asked very specific questions about the physical contact he had with MJ.

Prosecutor Ron Zonen grilled Robson on cross examination and asked very specific questions:

-- Zonen: Mr. Jackson would periodically kiss you.
-- Robson: No
-- Zonen: Periodically hug you?
-- Robson: Yes
-- Zonen: Touch you?
-- Robson: Hug me.
-- Zonen: Did he ever kiss your lips
-- Robson: No
-- Zonen: On occasions you stayed in bed with Mr. Jackson would you ever cuddle in bed?
-- Robson: No
-- Zonen: Would you lie next to one another?
-- Robson: No
-- Zonen: Would you touch?
-- Robson: No

Short story ... Robson says he "never forgot" anything Michael did to him ... he just didn't know it was wrong. So if he never forgot, did he lie on the stand or is he making it up now? Fair question.


Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2013/05/16/wade-...t-he-denied-specifics-at-trial/#ixzz349k76gZW

and even called him out on their TMZ Live as well - start from 2 minute mark

http://www.tmz.com/2013/05/16/wade-robson-michael-jackson-molestation-today-show-video/



That is the part I will never understand. If you did not know it was wrong why deny itwhen asked about it? Your answer shouldhave been well yeah we did that but thatwas not molestation I was a full willing participant.

 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

That is the part I will never understand. If you did not know it was wrong why deny itwhen asked about it? Your answer shouldhave been well yeah we did that but thatwas not molestation I was a full willing participant.


either way he's lying. case closed.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I think James was brought in when Wade's camp realized there was alot more public doubt about his claims than they had expected. I've noticed that they have stepped up the disgusting articles, abuse victims' support group statements against Michael and harassment of Michael's associates on social media websites somewhat since James added himself to this mess. Sometimes I still can't believe this is happening.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I'm glad TMZ is showing skepticism about this, a lot of people still trust everything written in articles so at least this might get those people thinking. It makes me sick that victims groups are unwittingly being used in this, they're already biased in favour of anyone claiming to be a victim and the abuse of their own members is being used to manipulate them into supporting a liar.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

People in general haven't heard about those liars, backstabbers and I don't even want to remind them. But some people's judgement regarding the previous allegations are poor and ridiculously idiotic.

I'm a member of an atheist group on fb, even though we mostly discuss about the inconsistencies of religion, atheism and science, sometimes we like to be off topic because it'd be boring to talk about the same. Anyway, an MJ fan posted the Xscape album cover to discuss the record. Us the fans were so happy to talk about our favorite tracks, the improvement of the Estate with the album, etc but it always has to appear the typical, closeminded haters who believe in all or most of the bullshit published or said by the media. It didn't surprise me they made emphasis on the settlement even though we pointed out how Evan blackmailed Michael way before he reported the alledge abuse to the police. It didn't surprised me either they delusionally believe he could "got away with murder" because of his star power and because he was rich, despite pointing out the inconsistencies of the testimonies, the lack/absence of legit evidence because some of it was falsified . But it makes me cringe those people think Michael had a criminal behavior just because of the sleepovers. :rant: And the only "evidence" they provide, "it's inappropriate for an adult man in his 30's, 40's having sleepovers with random minor children" and I made emphasis how Oprah bragged about in 2005, if I remember correctly how nice and fun was having sleepovers at her house with girls of her school and no one chastised or called her pervert. I don't think at all that mere action is against the law or wrong, it angers me deeply many people call Michael names and judge him, including that fat hag but with her it's appropriate and not criminal because it's Oprah! :mat:

It thought me a lesson even some atheists refuse to see the truth, evidence and thinking logically in some cases just like some believers would do when people point them out there's no legit evidence for their beliefs.

Sorry for the rant, I had to vent...
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Sorry, off topic, but what's the name of that group if u don't mind my asking? Fellow atheist here
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

^If you're not a member, it's a closed group called We (F*cking) Love Atheism. Hey fellow heathen, MJ fan! :waving:
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Hmm, I should join that, I'm another fellow atheist. It annoys me to no end when people who are rational and logical about other things become irrational and start using logical fallacies in their arguments just because it's about MJ, then they don't see the irony. We can ALL give them a dose of the facts!
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

People in general haven't heard about those liars, backstabbers and I don't even want to remind them. But some people's judgement regarding the previous allegations are poor and ridiculously idiotic.

I'm a member of an atheist group on fb, even though we mostly discuss about the inconsistencies of religion, atheism and science, sometimes we like to be off topic because it'd be boring to talk about the same. Anyway, an MJ fan posted the Xscape album cover to discuss the record. Us the fans were so happy to talk about our favorite tracks, the improvement of the Estate with the album, etc but it always has to appear the typical, closeminded haters who believe in all or most of the bullshit published or said by the media. It didn't surprise me they made emphasis on the settlement even though we pointed out how Evan blackmailed Michael way before he reported the alledge abuse to the police. It didn't surprised me either they delusionally believe he could "got away with murder" because of his star power and because he was rich, despite pointing out the inconsistencies of the testimonies, the lack/absence of legit evidence because some of it was falsified . But it makes me cringe those people think Michael had a criminal behavior just because of the sleepovers. :rant: And the only "evidence" they provide, "it's inappropriate for an adult man in his 30's, 40's having sleepovers with random minor children" and I made emphasis how Oprah bragged about in 2005, if I remember correctly how nice and fun was having sleepovers at her house with girls of her school and no one chastised or called her pervert. I don't think at all that mere action is against the law or wrong, it angers me deeply many people call Michael names and judge him, including that fat hag but with her it's appropriate and not criminal because it's Oprah! :mat:

It thought me a lesson even some atheists refuse to see the truth, evidence and thinking logically in some cases just like some believers would do when people point them out there's no legit evidence for their beliefs.

Sorry for the rant, I had to vent...

I'm not an atheist or anything, but that is pretty ironic. Somehow I'm not surprised though. When it comes to MJ, logic and common sense just seem to fly out the window.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

No matter how good and compelling facts you give people, some of them can't accept you're telling the true and refuse to see it. Just like mother for example, there's no human power that makes her change her mind about Michael, she will NEVER acknowledge she believes bullshit when it comes to him.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

They first need to go and educate themselves about how settlements work, mainly that they do nothing to stop anyone testifying in a criminal case. What would be the point of paying that when the family can have millions of your money and still testify against you? That doesn't make any sense. If MJ wanted to pay the chandlers to shut up he would have paid Evan what he wanted before any press, police or FBI were involved. The fact that he didn't says a lot.

If they intend to say he could get away with anything because he was rich and powerful they should be prepared to prove this premise, they should know that claim doesn't equal proof, they argue against this themselves when talking about religion. Using the same argument because it's MJ and pretending this fallacy is somehow valid because it's about MJ is nothing more than special pleading which is also a fallacy. A person having the means to do something doesn't mean that they did.

One thing about human behaviour is that it's not always consistent. People are less likely to let go of a belief they have the longer they've had it and the more emotionally attached to it they are. In a rationalist's case, it would be extra embarrassing to get something wrong when the method they've used to reach their conclusion is not accurate, especially when they chastise others for doing the same thing. I think it's a fairly normal failing in human behaviour to fall victim to false information even if you're smart, I'm sure everybody has done it, but the difference lies in whether or not a person will have the intellectual honesty to explore the possibility of being wrong and lay their prejudices aside.

The most difficult thing about this is the emotion attached to the subject. While they will accuse fans of being star struck, they fail to see their own blindness in the form of emotional bias since the subject is about sexual abuse. I don't believe it's entirely possible for any human to be completely unbiased about something like this but the facts are where it's at. If I'm accepted into this group I'd love to play "devil's advocate" and ask them the questions above and more. I may not out myself as a fan immediately because of the unfortunate assumption that any fan will only be inherently biased. I'll also make sure they know that I understand where they're coming from. If people think you can't see things from their side as well as yours you'll lose their interest and opportunity to teach them anything about this.
 
Ok, I've jumped into the storm, here's what Ive said:

I'm new here and I'm already jumping into a heavy subject. I'll play "devil's advocate" and ask a few questions.

The most important question I have:

How much do people really know about all of this? Over 300 pages of FBI files have been released, numerous court transcripts and documents are now available to the public but who has read them and learned how it all works and what was going on?

From a perspective of logic rather than emotion we know that claim does not automatically equal proof. Also, what exactly does OJ have to do with MJ's case? Is the comparing the two based only on an opinion that they were both rich and that popular opinion is that they were both guilty? I'm sure we know here that an appeal to popular opinion is a fallacy.

What do we know about civil settlements, how they work and what they do and don't really mean? Who first brought money into it? Does a person being rich automatically mean they must be guilty if a a civil case is settled? Why? While I'm playing devil's advocate I'll be even more of a pain in the backside and add this:

"Civil and Criminal Cases

The law deals with two kinds of cases. Civil cases involve conflicts between people or institutions such as businesses. A civil case usually begins when a person or organization determines that a problem can’t be solved without the intervention of the courts. In civil cases, one (or more) of these persons or organizations brings suit (i.e., files a complaint in court that begins a lawsuit).

Criminal cases involve enforcing public codes of behavior as embodied in the laws, with the government prosecuting individuals or institutions. In a criminal case, the government brings charges against the person alleged to have committed the crime.

What types of cases are civil? Divorce and related lawsuits (child support, custody, and the like) account for a very large number of civil cases. Cases involving contracts are also frequent. Automobile collisions account for many tort (personal injury) cases, another common kind of civil case. An auto collision gives rise to a civil case if one driver sues the other, or if a passenger in one of the cars sues either driver. An auto collision might also lead to a criminal case, if it involves allegations of a crime such as drunken driving or leaving the scene of an accident.

In many parts of the world, civil and criminal legal actions are combined into one case, but in our country they are not. If there are serious civil and criminal aspects of an event, there will be two (or more) distinct cases. An example would be a crime leading to a criminal trial of the defendant, with the victims filing a separate civil suit against the defendant to recover damages caused by the crime."


Do we as atheists really want to reason like Christians just because this is an emotive subject?

Shit this stuff is heavy, what have I done?! Lol.

My aim is to get people thinking about this more rationally (hopefully) and to see what people really know. I'm trying not to be biased towards MJ so they'll cut me some slack when I ask them valid questions. This could be hard but I'll give it a shot. :D

I hope other people from here will back me up if I need it, I don't want to be the only one in the firing line here. You can add me on facebook too if you like, the more like-minded people I have on there the better :)
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

If the admins accept you, look for the Xscape Deluxe cover on the group's pictures. I'd tag you but it'd look like I brought you in.
 
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