[Discussion] Sexual Abuse Claims Against MJ Estate - Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe

[Annita]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

He contributed also to the Opus-book, a book that was releasded from the Estate soon after Michaels death.

 

[HIStory]

Yes, and also Robson's long time lawyer, Helen Yu, seemed to be very much aware of MJ's Estate and not only that but also its earning potential:

November 25, 2009
[h=2]Musical Artists: Worth More Dead Than Alive? Michael Jackson and Elvis Generate Millions for Their Estates[/h] LOS ANGELES, CA (November 24, 2009) With the passing of pop’s biggest idols comes an unprecedented outpouring of emotion. Soon after, it becomes apparent that the money lives on. In the cases with music’s biggest icons, the revenues generated post-mortem signify lucrative paydays for their estates.

“Often times the estates will become booming enterprises because the artist is no longer in charge,” says Los Angeles entertainment attorney Helen Yu. “Elvis is a clear example: he was an amazing artist and performer, but he ran amuck financially during his life and was too generous with others when he should not have been. It wasn’t until after he died that Priscilla Presley and her advisors created an estate that would go on to earn millions of dollars.” According to the Forbes Annual Top Earning Dead Celebrities, the Presley estate is worth in excess of $55 million dollars.

Michael Jackson has reportedly made $90 million dollars since his death in June 2009, and most of that money is from AEG, the company behind his movie This Is It. Jackson was reportedly in catastrophic debt before his death.

Since Michael Jackson’s death, the world can now see the true light of Michael’s legacy. Posthumous homages have been done by Helen Yu-represented Michael Jackson protégé Wade Robson and his friend Charles Klapow. Robson, the Emmy-winning choreographer/director who as a young dancer appeared in Jackson’s “Black or White,” “Jam” and “Heal the World” videos, has since become the creator of the MTV show, The Wade Robson Project, as well as the choreographer for an American Idol tour and artists like Usher and Pink. He recently choreographed Cirque du Soleil/Criss Angel’s Believe at the Las Vegas Luxor. Robson honored Jackson as a performer at this year’s the 2009 MTV Video Music Awards (VMA’s) and on the recent So You Think You Can Dance. Helen says, “I’ve known Wade Robson and Charles Klapow since they were both little kids. They have both been disciples of Michael all their lives, and it’s great to see them honoring him in this way.” Yu is also associated with Charles Klapow, an Emmy-Winning choreographer known for his contributions to the High School Musical franchise, and one of the dancers for the Michael Jackson tour featured in the film This Is It, as well as Jennifer Hudson’s performance at the Michael Jackson memorial service held at Staples Center in Los Angeles.

Yu observes the economic reality of a famous artist’s estate involves “finding commercial avenues for the assets they already have and building on what already exists. Graceland was upside down and they turned it into a museum that is the most popular element of the company. Michael Jackson has the film, and they may also eventually create a museum.”

Yu, who once attended a pre-auction viewing of the possessions of the still living King of Pop, notes the unprecedented earning power of the now deceased Jackson. “He was certainly an amazing songwriter, performer and dancer, but he sometimes let the wrong people in. Now that his estate’s advisors are John Branca and John McClain, music industry veterans who know how to monetize the business, unfortunately, he will most likely earn more dead than alive.”

http://www.yuleseberg.com/news/worthmoredeadthanalive.php

 

[Tygger]

Castor, reposting:

Respect77, Castor, I never suggested Robson’s memories were repressed. Impairment equates to damaged memory. Memories can be impaired through manipulation, brainwashing, etc. as per Robson’s comment from the Today show posted below. Again, the statute of limitations for perjury has lapsed for Robson's 2005 testimony so there will be no legal repercussions.

This is not a case of repressed memory," said Robson. "I have never forgotten one moment of what Michael did to me, but I was psychologically and emotionally completely unable and unwilling to understand that it was sexual abuse."

He says there was no bribe money offered for him to lie on the stand -- nor, apparently, was it needed. "It was complete manipulation (by Jackson) and brainwashing," said Robson. "He would role play and train me for these (trial) scenarios."
http://www.today.com/popculture/wade-robson-pedophile-michael-jackson-abused-me-7-years-1C9948163

By the way, the defense’s discussions are relevant to the verdict in the AEG civil trial. Verdicts should be based on evidence of which testimonies are a form of evidence.

 

[InvincibleMJ]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Sooooo.... In what time the hearing starts on Thursday? Any reporter said he is going to attend? Does Pearl know? :lol:

 

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Sooooo.... In what time the hearing starts on Thursday? Any reporter said he is going to attend? Does Pearl know? :lol:

Isn't the hearing on April 21 - Tuesday? And I guess they start as usual, about 8 or 8:30 AM local time.

 

[InvincibleMJ]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Yes - Sorry, I was distracted. Thank you

 

[ivy]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

It is 8:30 per the document Radar posted. generally the hearing would last until lunch time. I saw hoax people say they would attend but now they aren't sure if that date is correct because they doesn't like me and she wasn't able to find the date on the court system - but she's looking to the civil case and not realizing this is the probate case. so they might not attend. I'm sure at least the australian media will report the hearing but I personally don't expect an instant ruling.

 

[ILoveHIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Well guys, what I personally dont understand is, which is obvious I am not from the US, why the judge long ago did not simply throw the whole case away because of the time until Robson could have accused at the time yet deceased MJ, that was 1 year since his death = 2010.

Now we have 2015, the symbolic 10th anniversary of the victory in 2005, and atfer 6 years of MJs death we are still discussing the possibilities for a new civil trial for other filthy accusations.

So why the judge simply didnt say in 2013 - Sorry Mr. Robsson, you have missed your time, Mr. Jackson has been dead for 4 years, you can not accuse him or any dead person of anything.

Or is it possible? Evidently in the US ... everything is possible. I personally can question the American legal system by this....

And as of April/May 2015... the hearings are still on... and who knows... where it is leading up to...

To me... its very suspicious and fishy about the timeline (since 1993: The Oprah interview vs Jordans accusations vs. Dangerous Tour=the biggest media coverage in history at the time - 2003: The LWMJ vs. Gavins accusation vs new projects and album Number Ones=the biggest media coverage in history at the time - 2013: The Cirque Du Soleil vs Robsons accusations vs the Legacy of MJ=the biggest media agenda in history NOW)
The same people involved in the 20+ years, the same lawyers/prosecution, the same media people, the same anti-jackson propaganda.

... a coincidence?

Nah...

 

[castor]

By the way, the defense’s discussions are relevant to the verdict in the AEG civil trial.
Verdicts should be based on evidence of which testimonies are a form of evidence.

But in this case evidence presented to prove he was an addict or he coerced Murray was not relevant since
they already decided the case on the question whether Murray was competent or not.
That was the second question on the verdict form and the didn't answer any other question after that.

As for Robson's impared memory you still don't seem to understand that he does NOT claim he had impared/damaged memory.
So what's your point by repeating this non-existent argument?
He claims that the didn't believe he was abused, didn't realized he was abused, didn't thin anything was wrong with what MJ did.

This is not a case of repressed memory," said Robson. "I have never forgotten one moment of what Michael did to me, but I was psychologically and emotionally completely unable and unwilling to understand that it was sexual abuse."

He says there was no bribe money offered for him to lie on the stand -- nor, apparently, was it needed. "It was complete manipulation (by Jackson) and brainwashing," said Robson. "He would role play and train me for these (trial) scenarios."
http://www.today.com/popculture/wade...ears-1C9948163

Unable and unwilling to understand has nothing to do with memory.

BTW "He would role play and train me for these (trial) scenarios." and that's why I was unable to understand whether I was in the shower with him or not
or whether he showed me porn or not.

Gimme a break.

Was MJ a Jedi or what? Vulcan? My mind is your mind?

And he also knew what Zonen and Sneddon would ask Robson?
He knew that they would present those books to him?
This nonsense sounds exactly like the Arvizo's tale about the two Germans who didn't even speak proper English
writing the whole rebuttal interview including the outtakes.

 

[ivy]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Well guys, what I personally dont understand is, which is obvious I am not from the US, why the judge long ago did not simply throw the whole case away because of the time until Robson could have accused at the time yet deceased MJ, that was 1 year since his death = 2010.

yes there are some time limitations to file cases but there are also exceptions to the rules. When there are motions and arguments about extensions, judge needs to go through the process of motions, hearings etc. they can't just dismiss it.

 

[Tygger]

Castor, to prevent repetition, we will have to agree to disagree regarding legal strategies and how those strategies affected the AEG civil trial verdict. I posted Robson’s words for review. If there is no reference to impairment in your view then, simply let it be a disagreement that we can agree on.

 

[castor]

Castor, to prevent repetition, we will have to agree to disagree regarding legal strategies and how those strategies affected the AEG civil trial verdict.

I wasn't talking about legal strategies affecting the verdict. I was talking about the questions that were on the verdict form.
Since they answered yes to the second question everything else became irrelevant.
And they didn't say yes to that particular question because they believed MJ was an addict or coerced Murray.
You think they thought Murray was competent when AEG hired him because MJ was an addict and he coerced Murray?
That doesn't make any sense.

I posted Robson’s words for review. If there is no reference to impairment in your view then, simply let it be a disagreement that we can agree on.

Well show me where he used the phrase impared or damaged memory. It's a fact that he never used those words. So what reference are you talking about?
You want to argue that not understanding what sex abuse is is the same as having damaged memory?

 

[barbee0715]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I wasn't talking about legal strategies affecting the verdict. I was talking about the questions that were on the verdict form.
Since they answered yes to the second question everything else became irrelevant.

I tried to answer this earlier, but my computer went crazy for about four hours, but I agree with that. I DID follow the trial and I was a member of this forum then, and I read every single comment made in the threads about the trial-and also after the trial when the juror came on and everyone was questioning her.

Both sides used the strategy of Michael being an out of control drug addict, but the strategy was useless (not only because it wasn't proven) but since it was a yes or no" questionnaire-and once they got to the second question, everything else became moot. They didn't have to contemplate the drug addiction in their deliberation at all.

Well show me where he used the phrase impared or damaged memory.

I don't think Wade used those words, but I get that "damaged memory" can occur through manipulation or brainwashing. So, Tygger-do you think the argument will be that Michael brainwashed and manipulated Wade into thinking a shower didn't happen, or a kiss didn't happen, or a "touch" didn't happen? And that's why he gave those answers to very specific questions in 2005? (all hypothetical, of course-the judge had better throw ALL of this out-and I hope he does so on Tuesday).

 

[castor]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I don't think Wade used those words, but I get that "damaged memory" can occur through manipulation or brainwashing. So, Tygger-do you think the argument will be that Michael brainwashed and manipulated Wade into thinking a shower didn't happen, or a kiss didn't happen, or a "touch" didn't happen? And that's why he gave those answers to very specific questions in 2005? (all hypothetical, of course-the judge had better throw ALL of this out-and I hope he does so on Tuesday).

They cannot make that argument since Robson specifically stated that he never forgot what MJ did to him. That he remembered everything.
He would say he lied.


But why did he lie?
Because he didn't understand that he was sexually abused.
That's doesn't make sense because he was not only asked whether MJ did anything sexual but whether he was ever with him in the shower, ever shown porn etc.

There is simply no way for him to get out of the hole he created.

Imagine this under cross-examination:
did you understand that you were in the shower with him?
yes
then why did you deny it?
because I didn't understand that I was sexually abused


Which sane juror would buy this nonsense?

 

[easter]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

They cannot make that argument since Robson specifically stated that the never forgot what MJ did to him. That he remembered everything.
He would say he lied.


But why did he lie?
Because he didn't understand that he was sexually abused.
That's doesn't make sense because he was not only asked whether MJ did anything sexual but whether he was ever with him in the shower, ever shown porn etc.

There is simply no way for him to get out of his the hole he created.

Imagine this under cross-examination:
did you understand that you were in the shower with him?
yes
then why did you deny it?
because I didn't understand that I was sexually abused


Which sane juror would buy this nonsense?

nevertheless, There is no real proof of their existence.
they can't convict a man of a crime on circumstantial evidence alone.

 

[easter]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Without other evidence to reinforce the truth of confessed, it is not possible to recognize guilty the fact about crime. :/

 

[Tygger]

Castor, you believe legal strategies and testimonies in the AEG civil trial did not affect the verdict and I believe otherwise. I agree to disagree.

Barbee0715, I personally do not want to discuss the actions of Robson/Safechuck’s legal team. I simply see no reason for these claims to be accepted.

 

[barbee0715]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

^^Sorry Tygger. I don't either and want it all thrown out ASAP. Hopefully Tuesday something good will happen.

 

[castor]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Castor, you believe legal strategies and testimonies in the AEG civil trial did not affect the verdict and I believe otherwise. I agree to disagree.

Just to be sure I understand what you want to say.
You are claiming that the jurors thought Murray was competent because they believed MJ was an addict and coerced Murray?

 

[Justthefacts]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I have a question is Wade saying that Michael bought him to the USA just to molest him? Formed companies just to get him here to molest him?

 

[Autumn II]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

There is a special kind of insanity that collects around Michael, and has followed him even after death. This insanity loses all logic, and is harvested by the tabloids only for profits. This makes about as much sense as Janet Arvizo and "abduction by hot-air balloon." Seriously? He showered with Michael, and nothing happened but cleanliness. Or, he did NOT shower with Michael. Or, he showered with Michael and did not remember doing so. Or, he DID shower with Michael and was traumatized and forgot it, due to suppressed memories miraculously recovered, thus avoiding the statute of limitations. But, that is NOT what he's saying. Or, he was molested but didn't realize that was molestation, and it was only as an adult that he learned what molestation really was, and went, "Oh, wait! That happened to ME!" Or, he was not molested, supported Michael in his innocence, and is now LYING. (bingo!). And so, now he wants people to believe that he's the world's ONLY functional adult who had never heard of molestation and had no idea what it was, until he had some sort of epiphany and went, "Oh, wait! That DID happen to me, and now I can get money for it." Or, and this is most likely -- he developed a strategy to invent molestation and avoid a statute of limitations, so he could get money for it. Will this PLEASE go away soon?

 

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I have a question is Wade saying that Michael bought him to the USA just to molest him? Formed companies just to get him here to molest him?

Taken from the Estate's demurrer:

So yeah, he basically claims MJ brought them to the US specifically so that he could molest Wade. A bit convenient that Robson leaves out from his story the fact that it was his mother who was pushing and pushing MJ and his office to get green cards for them so that they could live and work in the US.

 

[Justthefacts]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I was thinking today that MJJV was formed after he came to the US and after he said he was abused.

 

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I was thinking today that MJJV was formed after he came to the US and after he said he was abused.

Yes, and the Estate too makes this argument in their papers.

Acc. to precedent law for a company to be responsible for sexual abuse the alleged abuse has to arise from that relationship and environment between the company and the individuals involved (among other factors that are also required for a company to be responsible). But Robson's allegeation is that the abuse started before he was signed by either MJJP or MJJV, so the alleged abuse did not arise from that relationship. That's one of the arguments the Estate makes. (There are several other arguments as well.)

 

[castor]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Taken from the Estate's demurrer:
So yeah, he basically claims MJ brought them to the US specifically so that he could molest Wade. A bit convenient that Robson leaves out from his story the fact that it was his mother who was pushing and pushing MJ and his office to get green cards for them so that they could live and work in the US.

And how lucky MJ was that two years after first meeting with this family they just happened to go to the US and happened to call around trying to meet with him!
And he was even luckier when Chantal and Wade asked their parents Can we stay with Michael?
The prey arrived on a silver plate!

18 And then it was getting late, and my
19 children said to me, both Chantal and Wade, my
20 daughter, said, Can we stay with Michael.?
21 And my husband and I sort of looked at
22 Michael, and said, Well, if that's okay with you.
23 And he said, Oh, absolutely. If they'd like to
24 stay, that's fine.
25 Q. And did you allow your son and daughter to
26 stay in his room?
27 A. Yes.
28 Q. How many times do you think your son and daughter stayed in his room?
29 A. Many times. I have no idea.

Of course the moral American society would say:
Even if they wanted to stay with you should have said no.
Then the kids would have be disappointed and asked why?
Then MJ should have told them:
because if you stay in my room society would think I'm molesting you.

Huh?

Imagine that situation and the shock on everyone's face, Joy, her husband, the kids the grandparents if MJ had said that.

But that's exactly the line of thinking society demanded from Michael.
That he should have thought that everyone, well everyone who wasn't actually there, viewed the whole thing as a prelude for sexual abuse.
And because it didn't even cross his mind he is the pervert.
No no no not society who actually thinks about sex!
It's MJ, who didn't think about sex.

Humans....

 

[Justthefacts]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

He even claims that they left him alone at the ranch for a week after he was rapped on the first or second night. And everynight while his family traveled and he was alone with Michael he was rapped every night. Hmm that's new

 

[castor]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

He even claims that they left him alone at the ranch for a week after he was rapped on the first or second night. And everynight while his family traveled and he was alone with Michael he was rapped every night. Hmm that's new

Actually he claims that the abuse started on the second night and he contradicts his sister, who testified that it was the second night when she slept in the same bed.
Robson now claims that it was the first night and the second night he was alone in bed with MJ.
He even claims that Chantal expressed concern over the sleeping arrangement when in fact Chantal said just the opposite in 2005 that she was not concerned at all she just didn't want to invade MJ's private place THE FIRST NIGHT but by the second night she felt more comfortable and she slept with Wade and MJ in the same bed.

So how the hell could any abuse and any brainwashing take place then?

The Home Alone story is also BS. Wade was not left behind he travelled with his family. It's obvious from Chantal's and Joy's testimonies and they had no reason to lie about this at all.

Robson is simply rewriting history, plain and simple.

I wonder whether there is any photo or video showing him between Feb 5 Feb 10 1990 with his family. They sure made some pictures since it was a vacation.
I also wonder whether MJ himself was in Neverland during those 5 days.

One thing is sure: if Wade had been left behind Sneddon would have jumped on that like a shark. And nothing like that was ever mentioned by anyone, even though
his employees sure would have noticed if a 7 year old boy had been alone in the big house for 5 days, and not even Blanca Francia mentioned any such thing.

It's also a fact that Robson said in 2005 that the only time when he was in Neverland without his mother was in 1993 when he was there with the Culkins and the Chandlers.

How he wants to explain these gigantic contradictions is anyone's guess.
Maybe he would argue that the didn't understand what "left behind" and "being alone" meant.

 

[Justthefacts]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Well his old new story is more proof he and his Mother and sister were ex p expecting some cash to go away

 

[InvincibleMJ]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Weird how the so called victim kept going back so many times on his own to the place he claims he was raped at.

 

[myosotis]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I see there is a new tabloid story (UK Daily Star) which has appeared online in Yahoo News.
It seems very unlikely (even if the case comes to court, which I don't see why it should). Maybe someone just wanted to publish a story that mentioned 'MJ children' and 'molestation' in the same paragraph.....

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
'Michael Jackson's children have vowed to clear the child molestation allegations against the singing sensation.

The late 'Thriller' hitmaker's son Prince and daughter Paris want to take the witness stand to speak up for their dad in the multi-million-dollar civil action against his estate, the Daily Star reported.'