Cracked video allegation about MJ copying moonwalk from Bob Fosse

MJresearcher

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Thankfully they said they felt he took inspiration from Fosse rather than saying that he stole it, but of course we know MJ never claimed that he invented the moonwalk to begin with. Was there anyone before Bob Fosse who did a move similar to the moonwalk? I've also never heard this claim about MJ learning the moonwalk from Fosse in 3 hours. They don't give a source from that and of course I'm doubtful.

 
I can't see the video but Bob Fosse got his stuff from Gene Kelly and Stanley Donen. And they got their stuff from Agnes deMille, Jerome Robbins And many of the famous black dancers of the day. Gene raves on Bill Robinson. Raves.

Hermes pan , Fred Astaire borrowed from Bill. Bill Bailey, Nicholas bros. all had versions of the moonwalk/backslide.
 
I believe Bill Bailey first performed it televised
 
I was just reading about Bill Bailey performing it on Cabin In The Sky in 1943. Apparently he called it the "backslide". When I looked up Bob Fosse and the moonwalk I found a
blogpost by a guy who was angrily calling MJ a "thief" for "stealing" the moonwalk from Fosse and not giving credit. I guess he didn't go looking further back. I even read about the possibility of Cab Calloway performing it in 1932.
 
^^actually Cab did. And the Disney cartoon version of Cab did too. Apparently this person has never read a book or seen musicals made in the 30s and 40s.
 
I always have to laugh at people who accuse Michael of stealing the moonwalk from Bob Fosse. That seems to be a wide-spread myth, but it only shows people's ignorance in dance history. The moonwalk existed well before Bob Fosse and there is no clear, identifibale inventor of the moonwalk and that is probably true of most dance moves. That's just how dance naturally developes. Moreover Michael has never claimed to have invented the moonwalk, so that's another point of ignorance when people accuse him of claiming he invented it.

And BTW, if you want, Michael did early moonwalk-like moves as early as in 1968. LOL. @2:37

 
And I think these people who are so hung-up on who invented what in dance are missing the bigger picture about what makes a great dancer. It is not necessarily invention, it's the performance.This article is so great, it's worth reading fully but let me quote from it: http://en.michaeljackson.ru/michael-jackson-the-dancer-of-the-dream/


I remember how it jarred on me when I heard people talk about his excessive fame. They argued, for example, that the moonwalk wasn’t even created by Michael himself but was Marcel Marceau’s move. Well, if we dig into history, we discover this move existed long before Marceau. Also, being a dancer myself, I can say that the moonwalk is just a fetish in an individual dancing style – the Michael Jackson dance.
There is an interesting trick in choreography, used by many, that involves finding an original memorable move and showcasing it at the culmination of a performance. This move has to be unique or funny, but it doesn’t have to be technically complex. To find such a move can be a merit in itself – because it’s not easy.


This is the case of the moonwalk: it is quite a simple movement that can be learned by any person who can more or less control his or her body. I don’t refer to the advanced versions, such as the side slide or circular moonwalk – those are more difficult. But the classic moonwalk (i.e., walking backwards) can be performed even by an amateur. Yes, it is unusual, and you have to understand the principle of the move to repeat it. But that’s all it takes.


Michael’s dancing demonstrates so much more serious plastique and technique that, compared to them, the moonwalk is just a trifle. Look at the way he controls his body, his coordination, his sense of rhythm! And his spins! They are simply incredible! This is something only a very gifted professional can do.


Still, the moonwalk is the move that people call “sensational.” That’s a purely social effect – instigated by artistic wit and a talented choreographic choice. To perform such an odd element at a historic Motown anniversary, to make it memorable and pour so much energy into it – it paid off.


When journalists talk about Michael’s dancing, they usually cite the moonwalk as his special achievement in dancing technique. The moonwalk may be a historical event; however, it’s not his main contribution to the art of dance. His contributions extend far beyond that. They are not just in specific elements of dance, but, first and foremost, in his prominent style, his rich and expressive body language, and his unique approach to dancing.


There’s a multitude of dance steps and techniques in the world, and new ones will continue to appear endlessly. The sky is the limit. Still, history memorializes those dancers who could create something special on stage that would make people lose their minds, love, cry, rejoice, and empathize with the dancer. This is the most important element of an entertainer’s work. If you can set a spark and kindle a fire in your own heart and the hearts of the viewers, then you are a master. All the steps and techniques simply serve as an instrument to create that effect. It is their harmonic combination in a single organism that’s important, just like music is composed of seven notes in various octaves. Some music can move and amaze you, while other music simply doesn’t. The same is true for dance.
 
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I don't think that he "copied" moonwalk from Bob Fosse, but we can't deny that Fosse was one of his greatest dance inspiration:
2015-23-1433178640-vlcsnap-2015-06-01-19h08m04s39.png
 
I don't think that he "copied" moonwalk from Bob Fosse, but we can't deny that Fosse was one of his greatest dance inspiration:
2015-23-1433178640-vlcsnap-2015-06-01-19h08m04s39.png

And so was Fred Astaire. And James Brown. And Gene Kelly. And Bob Fosse had his very clear inspirations as well (among others Fred Astaire), yet no one calls him a "thief" for it.
 
And so was Fred Astaire. And James Brown. And Gene Kelly. And Bob Fosse had his very clear inspirations as well (among others Fred Astaire), yet no one calls him a "thief" for it.
Exactly. "Study the greats..." They all do it and it's complimentary. Don't let these idiots on YouTube get to you.
 
Exactly. "Study the greats..." They all do it and it's complimentary.

Yes. Let me quote another article. By the widow of Gene Kelly.

[h=1]Stealing from the Best[/h] Posted: 11/17/2014 3:29 pm EST Updated: 01/17/2015 5:59 am EST

n-GENE-KELLY-SINGING-IN-THE-RAIN-large570.jpg




The outpouring of responses I received for my piece about Gene and the upcoming stage production of An American in Paris prompted me to think about creativity and influences and the question -- from whence comes art? Early in our conversations, Gene answered the question for me. "I believe that everyone has been influenced by people before him -- or events or happenings," he said. "The best just don't simply spring full-blown from the earth. They're picking up a seed that has been planted before."


For Gene, the seeds were many. "I stole from everybody," he said. Sometimes the borrowing was very conscious, as it was when he and his younger brother Fred went to Loew's Penn Theater in downtown Pittsburgh and picked up the steps of the great Bill Robinson. In Gene's mind, Robinson was "the epitome and the quintessence of tap dancing perfection." As he said, "There were guys that did more exciting stuff, like Buck and Bubbles, in rhythm styles. But Bill Robinson was it. I was very fortunate to be a young man coming along learning dancing when he was around." When I asked what was distinct about Robinson's style, Gene explained, "Nobody could get the ease and the grace and the sound that Bill Robinson got. I've never heard it quite that clean and clear again."


When I asked if he could he identify something in his films directly connected with Robinson, he said, "Sure, there are variations of Bill Robinson in the dance I do with Donald O'Connor in Singin' in the Rain -- 'Moses Supposes.' Variations of it, but, basically, some of those steps are from Bill Robinson." According to Gene, "Bill himself had lifted from older minstrel men and vaudeville people before him; things such as asides to the audience or making jokes during the dance." And then there was Robinson's famous canting of his hat that would become one of Gene's signature gestures. "He always wore a derby and he would take that off and fan himself or twist it. And when he'd make an exit, sometimes he would cock it over his eyes. We all stole that from Bill Robinson, and, Lord knows, he might have stolen it from an older minstrel man before my day, before I was even born."


The influences spread through all forms of dance. "I soaked up everything that everybody had to teach," he said, "I went to every dance performance that played in Pittsburgh, New York, Chicago, wherever I was. I would look at it. I'd imbibe it and it would be part of me." And, earlier, "I stole from Martha Graham and the American Ballet Theatre and all its great dancers. But I didn't think of it as that. I thought it was educating myself and knowing everything about dance I could know. I wanted to have enough dance that I could dance like Peer Gynt or I could dance like an American sailor getting off a ship."

It didn't stop there. Gene also turned to painting, sculpture, athletics, musicals, movies, books. "The more a dancer learns," he insisted, "the better he will be."

When I mentioned Gene's voracious appetite to dance historian Elizabeth Kaye, she said it reminded her of her friend Rudolf Nureyev. "He was like a huge Hoover, scooping up everything." When she asked him about his consumption, he replied with an impish grin, "I only steal from the best."


Though Gene appreciated when people paid tribute to his work, he never relished literal renderings. He preferred, instead, to see artists take his steps and ideas and turn them into something new. Referring to the role of the artist, he said, "If he just follows the leader and accepts what's been done before, naturally, that can be brought to a very high skill. But if he wants to change it in some way and do it differently, then it jumps up to the major league."


To Gene, Michael Jackson was one who made this leap. His movements were derivative, yet he transformed the many borrowings into a new and exciting art form. Like Gene, Michael had an uncanny ability to imitate things precisely. One night when Michael invited us to his house for dinner to discuss the possibility of him starring in a musical version of Frankie and Johnny, he stood in the living room and performed an exact rendition of Gene's "Ballin' the Jack" -- not the vaudeville-style number with Judy Garland in For Me and My Gal but the sexy, earthy version from Gene's hard-to-find 1959 Pontiac television special. He had it down to the minutest detail, including the Bill Robinson-inspired cocked hat. Later, when we were seated at the dining table, he launched into a near-perfect copy of "Makin' Whoopee," saying he loved Gene's harmonizing with Donald O'Connor on the old Eddie Cantor song.


I was struck by how much Gene and Michael were alike. Both were sponges, taking what they needed, modifying it, and setting aside the rest. By watching everything Gene did and mimicking his moves, Michael absorbed a whole history of dance -- a range of influences from the simple, clog-shoe-steps of Bill Robinson, to the masculine ballet of Russian Adolph Bolm and the modern ingenuity of Martha Graham -- and so much more.


Gene appreciated that Michael had "respect for the older generation," and that he made "no secret" of those who had helped to shape his style. For Gene, dance was a matter of influences and all dancers "have generations behind them." As he had advised his friend Fred Astaire years before when someone had stolen one of Fred's routines: "You mustn't get angry at this. You should be flattered that the guy stole your number. That's the sincerest form of flattery. That's happening to me, and I'm not going to resent it. I'm going to be proud of it."

Stealing from the best, indeed.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/patri...ng-from-the-best_b_6173404.html?utm_hp_ref=tw
 
Moonwalk is older than that and it got so much better on Motown 25 that Michael made it his own. That being said, I also think Michael's first Moonwalk there was ok compared to all the awesome Moonwalks and the likes of it he did in his tours later :lol:
 
I'm pretty sure the use of white socks and a hat were done before too, I'm pretty sure I read MJ saying he wanted to bring the white socks back. There are many people who used the moonwalk before MJ but I think it was because his performance was well done and he had a lot of exposure that it because so popular. I think he cops flack for "stealing" it because he's the one who made it so popular. Apart from all of that I don't think you can put a patent on a dance move anyway.
 
Beautiful article by Gene Kelly's widow and I absolutely agree with Gene; "I believe that everyone has been influenced by people before him -- or events or happenings," he said. "The best just don't simply spring full-blown from the earth. They're picking up a seed that has been planted before."

In all honesty, I don't necessarily care who did it first but who did it best. Sometimes those who did it first do it best, sometimes those who adopt and make it their own do it the best.

Michael Jackson never invented the moonwalk, nor did he ever claim to, but boy could no-one moonwalk like that man.
 
A friend shared the video, that's how I came across it. His comment was about Johnny Cash though, he said nothing about MJ. Here's the response I'll be leaving:

There have been many dancers who have used the moonwalk. It’s not only a backwards glide, it can be a forward and sideways glide too. Calloway used it in 1932:

[video]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/transcoded/5/5f/Minnie_the_Moocher_%281932%29.webm/Minnie_the_Moocher_%281932%29.webm.160p.ogv#t=0:0: 26,0:1:7[/video]

Judy Garland and Margaret O’Brien used it in “Meet Me in St. Louis” when they performed the song “Under The Bamboo Tree” in 1944:

(1:35)
[video=youtube;1grzsbVrXyg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1grzsbVrXyg&feature=player_detailpage[/video]

John William Sublett used it in “Cabin In The Sky” in 1943;
(2:06, 2:17)
[video=youtube;c58AAcnaPTo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=c58AAcnaPTo[/video]

You can see that he also uses spin moves and wears a hat.

Bill Bailey used the move around 1955:
(0:19, 1:29)
[video=youtube;2VbPd2iu4bg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=2VbPd2iu4bg[/video]

Marcel Marceau used it in his mime routine “Walking Against the Wind” from around the 1940’s to 1980’s, Dick Van Dyke used it in his Mailing A Letter On A Windy Corner skit:
[video=youtube;hp3XZdTtNfE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=hp3XZdTtNfE[/video]
 
Adalberto Martinez "Resortes" used it in the movie “Summer School” in the late 1950’s:
(0:14)
[video=youtube;C-26Xy0PS_Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=C-26Xy0PS_Y[/video]

In 1969 on the episode “You Can’t Have Your Cake” on H.R. Pufnstuf, Judy the frog moonwalks to distract castle guards:

http://www.vudu.com/movies/#!overview/215169/HR-Pufnstuf-You-Cant-Have-Your-Cake

James Brown used it in The Blues Brothers in 1980 and also uses spin moves. Michael was a big fan of James Brown and often said he was inspired by him. You can see this when watching James brown in 1966, he also uses spin moves, moonwalk-like moves and the same fast footwork Michael later used:

[video=youtube;t08ejaQqWjY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t08ejaQqWjY&feature=player_detailpage[/video]

Michael himself said that nobody influenced him more than James Brown:
(2:16)
[video=youtube;ZN48lsXL1oA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZN48lsXL1oA&feature=player_detailpage[/video]

Jeffrey Daniels used it in 1982 (he also wears white gloves):
(1:58)
[video=youtube;END_WYdf8pw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=END_WYdf8pw&feature=player_detailpage[/video]

Debbie Allen and Gwen Verdon also used it in 1982 on the TV series “Fame”:
[video=youtube;ulR9eQbO5jQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulR9eQbO5jQ&feature=player_detailpage[/video]

There were spins, a hat, hip thrusts and kicks in that too.
 
Jeffrey Daniel, Casper Canidate and Cooley Jaxson / Jackson performed it in 1979 to Michael’s song “Working Day and Night”
[video=youtube;rb4vUxhow_s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rb4vUxhow_s&feature=player_detailpage[/video]

I’ve seen different articles claiming different people taught Michael how to do this move. Michael himself said he learned it from street kid dancers. Something lesser known is that he was performing moonwalk-like moves back in 1968 when he was 10 years old:
[video=youtube;Ux3joe0GdTA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Ux3joe0GdTA[/video]

Note:

I had to split the post into 3 separate posts because you're only allowed to put 5 videos in one post.
 
I'm pretty sure the use of white socks and a hat were done before too, I'm pretty sure I read MJ saying he wanted to bring the white socks back. There are many people who used the moonwalk before MJ but I think it was because his performance was well done and he had a lot of exposure that it because so popular. I think he cops flack for "stealing" it because he's the one who made it so popular. Apart from all of that I don't think you can put a patent on a dance move anyway.

Are you mentioning the white socks and hat because they claim MJ took that from Bob Fosse as well? Yes, that's another myth. Actually in the Little Prince it's not white socks that you see on Fosse, but that shoe protector thing. This:

Guetres.jpg


It was used by many dancers before him including Fred Astaire from whom Fosse took a lot of things.

fred_astaire.jpg


I guess it had the same role as the white socks, to bring attention to the feet. And yes, the white socks were also used by others before Michael for that reason.

And of course the hat too is an old dancer accessory. I'm not sure why Fosse fans like to pretend all these things were invented by Fosse. They weren't.
 
Wearing white socks with loafers was fashionable in the 50s to 1967 until Michael made them cool and acceptable again. I'm sure there were many ones before Elvis including one of Michael's influences, Gene Kelly. Here in his 1950 movie Summer Stock and Jailhouse Rock was released 7 years later. Watching pictures of Gene he wore white socks and brown loafers a lot. My point is that there's nothing wrong to be influenced or inspired by artists as long as it's not a cynical rip off.

Although he tended to play fast-talking hucksters, Kelly's performances gave the impression that anyone — athletes, sailors, or Joe Sixpack — could sing and dance. This was evidenced by his trademark outfit, which consisted of a polo shirt and loafers. The white socks were handy for protecting his feet; Kelly later shared this tip with Michael Jackson, which led to the singer's trademark look.



gene-kelly-in-loafers-and-rolled-pants.jpg
 
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No, Elvis did not invent the white socks. Indeed white socks were a common thing back in the day. To call wearing white socks a rip-off is like calling wearing white underwear a rip-off.
 
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This is kind of pointless, MJ has never claimed he invented the Moonwalk, the white socks or the loafers. I think haters are the only ones who say he did, only to make him look stupid when they prove that he didn't like it says anything about his originality.
 
This is kind of pointless, MJ has never claimed he invented the Moonwalk, the white socks or the loafers. I think haters are the only ones who say he did, only to make him look stupid when they prove that he didn't like it says anything about his originality.

When I googled Bob Fosse Little Prince only the second video that came up was a video about MJ supposedly ripping off Fosse. When I took a closer look of the channel that posted that video it turns out it's an MJ hater channel dedicated to videos bashing MJ in every way possible. (The good thing is the video had like 4-5 commenters only, apparently by the same people who are on MJfacts, at least one of them had the title of that website in their user name. BTW, this just shows that these people are not concerned about alleged child abuse. They are just common haters who would want to bash and trash MJ in every way possible.). So I suspect, that a lot of this "MJ ripped off Fosse" thing is spread around by haters. The whole thing was very ignorant because they claimed the moonwalk was invented by Fosse (not true) and that MJ stole it from him and never gave credit (also not true - MJ never claimed to have invented the moonwalk, he always gave credit to others - although not to Fosse personally, but he did not have to since Fosse was not the inventor of the moonwalk in the first place).
But yeah, they make this strawman argument saying MJ claimed to have invented the moonwalk when he never said that.
 
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Talking about Summer Stock, check out Get Happy (the beginning specially.)


There's nothing wrong on being influenced or inspired by other artists. Michael didn't do rip off, he paid tributes to whom he admired and saw as inspiration. He didn't do the exact same things, he did them differently. There were many ones before Bob Fosse.

 
^^Yes!! 2 of my most favorite musical numbers ever. If I wasn't on the phone I'd post the YouTube clip from the Jackson variety show where Michael sings "get happy" in a white suit and all the girls look like Cyd here. :)
 
When I googled Bob Fosse Little Prince only the second video that came up was a video about MJ supposedly ripping off Fosse. When I took a closer look of the channel that posted that video it turns out it's an MJ hater channel dedicated to videos bashing MJ in every way possible. (The good thing is the video had like 4-5 commenters only, apparently by the same people who are on MJfacts, at least one of them had the title of that website in their user name. BTW, this just shows that these people are not concerned about alleged child abuse. They are just common haters who would want to bash and trash MJ in every way possible.). So I suspect, that a lot of this "MJ ripped off Fosse" thing is spread around by haters. The whole thing was very ignorant because they claimed the moonwalk was invented by Fosse (not true) and that MJ stole it from him and never gave credit (also not true - MJ never claimed to have invented the moonwalk, he always gave credit to others - although not to Fosse personally, but he did not have to since Fosse was not the inventor of the moonwalk in the first place).
But yeah, they make this strawman argument saying MJ claimed to have invented the moonwalk when he never said that.

The only thing that's shocking about this is that they're that obvious.
 
The only thing that's shocking about this is that they're that obvious.
i agree. How ridiculous. So this had nothing to do with Bob or Gene or Fred or dance at all. It's like I said earlier, this person has obviously never seen a movie musical or read any books about its history. :(
 
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