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Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

Staffordshire Bullterrier said:
It had been so long since I listened to MJ's music, because I am a very not frequent music listener. Listened to Tabloid Junkie and goddamn son, I got shivers all over when Mike goes "Just because you read it in a magazine..." and even almost got slightly emotional. That must be the anger, sadness and frustration that I hear in the man's voice and I feel the exact same after so many years.
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I love the HIStory album and its became so relevant again with MJ's points in his songs.
 
john13th said:
Yeah there is something strange with that photo that I keep focusing on all the time. It is a too sharp line of transition between Michaels red jacket and Jimmys head and arm there. That line goes to straight without any shadow contour to it. And the jacket is completely red, it eliminate any signs of those lapels that you can otherwise see on the other photos of him in the same event.
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Yeah and look at the line between james inner ear and his hair.
A small part of his ear semes to be cut away.
The most important thing I want to know about this picture is who the woman is.
I am sure she is a celebretie.
She seames to be france.
 
I had the idea that I could avoid news of the fallout from this 'documentary', because I knew how I would obsess and fret over it. But it was unavoidable.

The noise surrounding this fiasco is very upsetting. Very upsetting. The highs and lows are draining!!

It is interesting that these two men made their accusations years ago and Michael did not need to be 'cancelled'. But they state their (changing) stories in a documentary and now some people feel that they can no longer support Michael? That baffles me. It implies that if you give a graphic recollection you are more likely to be believed.

Furthermore Michael's music was still played when he was CHARGED with child molestation, etc. But now it should not be because of claims in a unchallenged documentary. Weird!!

The long and short of it is that some people want to diminish Michael's legacy. It angers them that, no matter was said about Michael, he prevailed in court and since his death has still been a brand/icon to be reckoned with.

This trash cannot be allowed to win.

Please continue to fight, to expose the lies, to present the facts! From my little corner of the world, I will be watching vids on YouTube and raising their profile (I don't do social media).

The results of this fallout may not be as detrimental as the producers and stars would have hoped, and this too shall pass. But we still have to be vigilant and keep up the pressure. This is too important.
 
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And I think we have to be careful not to get too tied up in minutiae of the documentary because then it looks like we are scrapping for things to discredit this work. We also should not spread conspiracies. Stick to the facts. Without the facts we are dismissed as blind, crazily loyal fanatics.

I feel there needs to be a serious investigation into the source of the funding for this 'doc' and the producer. People were sympathetic to Smollett (sp??) until a thorough investigation was done ...

Unfortunately, I don't have the money to fund something like that. Sigh.
 
Silverstone said:
That was mentioned here the other day.
We need it confirmed one way or the other.
This could be massive.
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It would make SO much sense, it's crazy how much.

Wade: His motivations have been made clear so many times here.

James: Same reason!

Dan Reed: We can't know for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if he's still "in the closet" and a real dirty men. The way he describes things, almost to make them sound normal.

Geffen : According to Michael he has always wanted to destroy him and his career. I see no reason not to believe Mike in that.

Oprah : Buddies with Geffen, watched the mockumentary on a freaking yacht for christ sake with him and her lapdog on her birthday!

Weinstein : Scumbag had been bringing in fake stories about Mike to get attention away from himself. Dude's absolutely still in control of shit.

Harvey from TMZ : I don't have a hard time believing that either. TMZ has always been scum, vultures and that guy... never trusted him one bit.

Please let that be true.
 
This is going to be controversial, but how come all of a sudden everyone in Twitter is suddenly a victim of sexual abuse? Its one of two things, its appealed to actual sex abuse victims so they're more vocal or they're just saying it to strengthen their argument.

Honestly, probably every other person I've spoken to at some point has slipped in somewhere that they're a victim of child sex abuse, or it's in their bio.
 
Staffordshire Bullterrier said:
It would make SO much sense, it's crazy how much.

Wade: His motivations have been made clear so many times here.

James: Same reason!

Dan Reed: We can't know for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if he's still "in the closet" and a real dirty men. The way he describes things, almost to make them sound normal.

Geffen : According to Michael he has always wanted to destroy him and his career. I see no reason not to believe Mike in that.

Oprah : Buddies with Geffen, watched the mockumentary on a freaking yacht for christ sake with him and her lapdog on her birthday!

Weinstein : Scumbag had been bringing in fake stories about Mike to get attention away from himself. Dude's absolutely still in control of shit.

Harvey from TMZ : I don't have a hard time believing that either. TMZ has always been scum, vultures and that guy... never trusted him one bit.

Please let that be true.
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Ohh it would certainly make sense but it would be so vital in pulling this crap apart.

I would like to think the Estate would have a field day if this is true.

I just don't want to get carried away with it because we don't know yet how credible it is.....my fingers are crossed though.

How easy....or hard would it be to confirm this because obviously it will be well hidden?
 
TheChosenOne said:
And I think we have to be careful not to get too tied up in minutiae of the documentary because then it looks like we are scrapping for things to discredit this work. We also should not spread conspiracies. Stick to the facts. Without the facts we are dismissed as blind, crazily loyal fanatics.

I feel there needs to be a serious investigation into the source of the funding for this 'doc' and the producer. People were sympathetic to Smollett (sp??) until a thorough investigation was done ...

Unfortunately, I don't have the money to fund something like that. Sigh.
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I definitely agree with that. For example it's a real bad idea to post that picture about who funded the "doc" without any confirmation. If it does turn out to be true and they all get exposed... well... I have no words for the happiness we're all gonna have here, but it's best to just stick to facts now.

From now on I'm not even gonna write walls of text anymore, which is very annoying on Twitter anyway because people have no patience and when I am typing multiple messages they are already replying to my first comment which basically is part 1. From now on I'll just say...

Who are you gonna believe

MJ : All known facts(FBI, Children&Family services, jury, never any evidence and please never believe any tabloid.)

Wade & James : All known facts(lying under oath multiple times, several versions of their story, many contradictions, diary/note by Wade, his clear motive, same for James.)

And try to keep that as brief as possible.
 
Confirmation bias plays a large, large part in this. People want to hear about how evil MJ was.
 
ManBehindTheMirrOr - Dona said:
Yeah and look at the line between james inner ear and his hair.
A small part of his ear semes to be cut away.
The most important thing I want to know about this picture is who the woman is.
I am sure she is a celebretie.
She seames to be france.
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The woman in the picture is James' mother. I think you guys are overanalysing this picture a little too much.
 
I looked now at many pictures from the event were MJ wears the red Jacket.
I can't find James anywere.
Even on his long personal table where MJ was siting at the event... no James!
What is strange when he was his lover and MJ had in general no problem that the children who were with him on events sitting near to him and often came with him on the stage.
 
L.T.D said:
This is going to be controversial, but how come all of a sudden everyone in Twitter is suddenly a victim of sexual abuse? Its one of two things, its appealed to actual sex abuse victims so they're more vocal or they're just saying it to strengthen their argument.

Honestly, probably every other person I've spoken to at some point has slipped in somewhere that they're a victim of child sex abuse, or it's in their bio.
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Victim mentality. Obsessional me too
Movement. Ppl dont like to feel left out. Or just use it a an excuse to hate on mj.where as other victims are speaking out at the fakeness of robson and co.

Ever sat around a bunch of retired ppl. Its like a comp to see whos got the most ailments. Everyones got to have something wrong
 
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Just a heads up, if debating with people on this, don’t mention how great of an entertainer he was. I’ve seen so many people get shut down for mentioning this. “You’re only defending him because you like his music lol”. Also his charity work is another place where people slip up. Saville did a lot of charity work, so that’s another thing people jump on, so I wouldn’t mention it.

We’re gonna win this though, I can feel it. Now that the dust has settled, people are really starting to question this. The truth will prevail.
 
Silverstone said:
I love the HIStory album and its became so relevant again with MJ's points in his songs.
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Yeah, sadly it is incredibly relevant today. It should be relevant for the right reasons that it's amazing in terms of music but.... yeah.

Still, listening to Tabloid Junkie and Money just gave me this empowering feeling, hard to explain but it felt damn good to listen to it. Put the receiver's volume quite high too, I wanted to let my neighbors and maybe people outside to know for those few minutes that a proud fan lives here. :)
 
Recency bias plays a role as well. That one comedian said to listen to James Brown instead of MJ—James Brown was accused of abuse of women multiple times. These people don’t know what they’re talking about.
 
L.T.D said:
That's amazing. Wish we could get it to number 1. We should have innocent man released to get to number 1...
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Do we know for sure there's a finished version of that song? Man at this point I'd pay to hear this. I also want to hear Man in Black!

That was a nice edit job on DS, wow.
 
I just posted this on a youtube page.. feel free to take it, re post it, change it up to fit your style or whatever..


People need to do there research..

* In the doc Wades wife states she did not know how to deal with Wades abuse because she's had no experience with it, but their website stated she was an abuse victim herself
* James claims Michael called asking him to testify and threatened him... James legally was considered a 'non factor' in the case before people were being called to testify, he was not in position to speak even if he wanted to
* That edited/sliced 'Happy Birthday' message was recorded before Wade and Michael ever spent any time together (aside from the time they met in Australia) and was filmed 7 months before his Bday
* Both mothers were laughing and lovingly talking about the time period they spent with Michael.. This is the time they would have been 'neglecting' their children while they were being abused.. Really?
* They talk about this elaborate grooming process Michael did but say he molested him the first day they were alone.. That's only hours from day to evening to make Wade 'comfortable' enough to feel ok about something like that? Mind you, they were not US citizens so after the event, they'd be going home to Australia.. That's VERY risky! That is a lot of trust Michael would have to earn in the matter of a short time period.​


Just a few pieces of Bull sh** in the doc, and if I share the details of the lies, withholding evidence, and coverups that were uncovered in their own cases against the Jackson estate - it would go a lot deeper..

* Wade Robson was sending links from an anti MJ website that paints Jackson as a pedophile to build his case (why would he need to do that if it's a personal event)
* Emails between Wade and his mother, Wade sends her an article making claims about Michael, she responds "wow, that never happened" and he still used the story in court.
* The judge stated there was not a tier of logic in Wades Testimony
* Wade robson claims two contradictory things.. 1. that he did not see anything wrong with the abuse at the time because he felt that he was in a 'fulfilling sexual relationship' at 7 years old and that's why he did not speak out... 2. that Michael would drill & threaten him about if he spoke out and he did not due to fear.
* Wade Robson was trying to have his wedding at Neverland but the Jacksons legal issues prevented that to happen
* He continued to be part of Michaels life until he passed, begged to go the memorial, tried to be a part of his Cirque show
* Says it's about victims but sued the estate for 1.4 billion dollars and is appealing the thrown out case right NOW


This really is not everything, you should do your research... And in the meantime ask yourself - could you say this about your abuser? http://www.reflectionsonthedance.com/Wade-Robson-Opus-Tribute-to-MJ.html
​
 
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TheChosenOne;4247750 said:
I had the idea that I could avoid news of the fallout from this 'documentary', because I knew how I would obsess and fret over it. But it was unavoidable.

The noise surrounding this fiasco is very upsetting. Very upsetting. The highs and lows are draining!!

It is interesting that these two men made their accusations years ago and Michael did not need to be 'cancelled'. But they state their (changing) stories in a documentary and now some people feel that they can no longer support Michael? That baffles me. It implies that if you give a graphic recollection you are more likely to be believed.

Furthermore Michael's music was still played when he was CHARGED with child molestation, etc. But now it should not be because of claims in a unchallenged documentary. Weird!!

The long and short of it is that some people want to diminish Michael's legacy. It angers them that, no matter was said about Michael, he prevailed in court and since his death has still been a brand/icon to be reckoned with.

This trash cannot be allowed to win.

Please continue to fight, to expose the lies, to present the facts! From my little corner of the world, I will be watching vids on YouTube and raising their profile (I don't do social media).

The results of this fallout may not be as detrimental as the producers and stars would have hoped, and this too shall pass. But we still have to be vigilant and keep up the pressure. This is too important.
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This is exactly what baffles me the most. That the allegations are not new and the doc provides no new information or evidence but for someone reason everyone is suddenly assuming guilt and calling for his music to banned.
It follows no rational logic or sense, if accusations alone were enough to warrant the assumption of guilt and banning his music then this should have been done in ‘93 or later in ‘03 or again in ‘13.
It seems so bizarre and irrational that of all things this documentary is what has caused this reaction.
Logic seems to have gone out of the window for the both the general public and the mainstream media. Is this how it’s to be from now on, trial by media and judgement passed with zero opportunity given for a defence?
 
Why are people wasting time on photos that are obviously real?

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
 
TheChosenOne said:
And I think we have to be careful not to get too tied up in minutiae of the documentary because then it looks like we are scrapping for things to discredit this work. We also should not spread conspiracies. Stick to the facts. Without the facts we are dismissed as blind, crazily loyal fanatics.

I feel there needs to be a serious investigation into the source of the funding for this 'doc' and the producer. People were sympathetic to Smollett (sp??) until a thorough investigation was done ...

Unfortunately, I don't have the money to fund something like that. Sigh.
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Agreed, stick to facts not conspiracies and speculation. Claiming pictures are photoshopped with no evidence makes us look like fanatical conspiracy theorists.
 
Hey MJJC,

I wanted to share a different perspective about the allegations.

I am not a psychologist or an expert in this subject in any way, and this is merely my own speculation, but I see many similarities between the accusers behavior and statements, and symptoms of bipolar disorder.

There is a symptom associated with bipolar disorder known as erotomania, which is "is a rare disorder in which an individual has a delusional belief that a person of higher social status falls in love and makes amorous advances towards him/her." (Erotomania revisited: clinical course and treatment. Page 787) This person "is unattainable in some way, because he is already married or because he has no personal interest in" the sufferer, a "person with whom a relationship was previously established but with whom the person no longer or has never had contact with" (Page 789) Several patients with erotomania had delusions that "served as a defense reaction against homosexual doubts and feelings of competitiveness or resentment and may have been an attempt to incorporate power and self-image." (Page 791) A female patient had extreme delusions, such as marrying the man she pursued, getting pregnant, and even giving birth. She also said that the man "provided meaning to her life that she did not have before and if she did not have him her life would have no meaning." (Page 788) "Patients with erotomania who have bipolar disorder are more likely to have a recurrent form of erotomania" (Page 792)

The sufferer's "love is of sentimental kind, he is wholly occupied by the object of his adoration, whom if he approach it is with respect." Patients are unable "to put themselves in another person’s place and thus correctly assess their behavior and intentions. Thought insertion and ideations of control by others can be traced back to dysfunctional monitoring of one’s own intentions and actions." (Understanding delusions)

"An individual may believe that this person is communicating with them and affirming their love, using secret messages." (What is erotomania?)

"Stressful events in a person's life, such as a death in the family, can trigger [...] psychotic symptoms", "such as false perceptions (hallucinations) or strongly held false beliefs (delusions)." "People with bipolar disorder experience both dramatic "highs," called manic episodes, and "lows," called depressive episodes. [...] Manic episodes are characterized by increased energy and activity, irritability, restlessness, an inability to sleep, and reckless behavior. Depressive episodes are marked by low energy and activity, a feeling of hopelessness, and an inability to perform everyday tasks." Studies seem to indicate that bipolar disorder is associated with genes and could be hereditary. (Genetics Home Reference - Bipolar Disorder) "Bipolar disorder and alcoholism commonly co–occur" (Bipolar Disorder and Alcoholism)


Erotomania revisited: clinical course and treatment. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2569288/pdf/jnma00192-0127.pdf
Understanding delusions. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3016695/
What is erotomania?. https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/319145.php
Genetics Home Reference - Bipolar Disorder. https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/condition/bipolar-disorder#genes
Bipolar Disorder and Alcoholism. https://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh26-2/103-108.htm
 
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innuendo141 said:
Why are people wasting time on photos that are obviously real?

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
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lol I was thinking the same thing, I mean I get we are all Inspector Gadget right now but it would be 100% pointless to fake that picture when there is nothing incriminating in it. They have probably hundreds of pics together.. It would be pointless to edit it..


That Happy Birthday video is what people should be inspecting - if they want to dissect footage.
 
They've given us enough evidence right in front of our eyes without having to focus on a photograph. The photo doesn't matter, its not strong evidence of anything anyway other than the fact they were friends at one point.
 
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