What is it about Michael’s VOICE?!

Yes, I kept my distance from Michael as a form of protection. In fact, I still do it now. And, yes, sometimes, loving Michael as much as I do, it almost feels unbearable even though that seems like a mad thing to say because he is so amazing and being into him is even more amazing. But it's heavy. He really does overwhelm me and I need space and time to recover. My brain needs time out but so does my body (and my spirit; you're absolutely right, there's the spiritual aspect as well). I definitely feel like I can't physically contain the feelings or emotions. And part of trying to deal with that is to try to express what he means to me or how he makes me feel but I am completely incapable of doing that plus trying to do that in itself also makes me feel overwhelmed.
So interesting to read this. My reaction is total opposite. Michael and his voice has become a security blanket for me at the moment. His voice is like an answer to all stresses. It does overwhelm me sometimes and I am not able to carry out day to day work, but mostly at the moment it is comforting. When I get anxious or overwhelmed by life around me, I just put some of my favourites and escape into his voice to clear my head. I even listen to then when not able to sleep and I am dreaming by 2nd or 3rd song :sleep:, and I already mentioned somewhere before that I wakeup to lady in my life as my alarm tone. It starts my day with a smile :)

Early on, Is It Scary also made me cry a lot but, in time, that calmed down and I now have many different reactions to it as I do to any of Michael's songs. So I don't think there's a Pavlov's dog thing going on with WHE. I don't know why it happens. It just does.
I have to listen to these songs, though I am scared now! For me it would be Whatever Happens that always brings tears in my eyes, but I think that is more to do with my current situation where I am trying to let so many painful but long kept dear things go.
 
So interesting to read this. My reaction is total opposite. Michael and his voice has become a security blanket for me at the moment. His voice is like an answer to all stresses. It does overwhelm me sometimes and I am not able to carry out day to day work, but mostly at the moment it is comforting. When I get anxious or overwhelmed by life around me, I just put some of my favourites and escape into his voice to clear my head. I even listen to then when not able to sleep and I am dreaming by 2nd or 3rd song :sleep:, and I already mentioned somewhere before that I wakeup to lady in my life as my alarm tone. It starts my day with a smile :)


I have to listen to these songs, though I am scared now! For me it would be Whatever Happens that always brings tears in my eyes, but I think that is more to do with my current situation where I am trying to let so many painful but long kept dear things go.
Yes, I can understand why Whatever Happens would be tricky for you to listen to just now. Warm hugs.

I really feel like I need to make it clear that my Michaeling isn't some terrible slough of despond. It really isn't. Partly because of the huge range of songs and styles and moods that are on offer. I have to be extremely careful with WHE (and Little Susie, as well) but The Lost Children, for example, I can play it as often as I want even though it's such a sad song. You have the terrible despair of the 'And no-one can find thee' line but, overall, I can find so much comfort and safety and beauty in that song just because of Michael's voice. Even Be Not Always which is insanely sad and heartbreaking and raw, I can cope with it. The beauty and calmness of Michael's voice will carry me through every time.

It's so interesting you said Michael's voice is like a security blanket. StayWild23 said a similar thing, IIRC. Michael makes her feel warm and safe, I think that's what she said. I tried to write a response to that because Michael feels dangerous to me but I couldn't do it without it coming out all wrong. Because I didn't mean dangerous as in 'nasty' or anything at all horrible. I know what I mean but it's just out of reach. I'll have to leave that one.

But to return to your main point. No question I can and often do use Michael's music as a sort of therapy. It's incredibly effective. He used to talk a lot about the 'magic'. I wonder if he knew just how much of a magician he actually was.
 
Oh, I understand what you are saying. I can totally imagine Michael being this all consuming cannot function normally force that you need to protect yourself otherwise you would explode. That's why he gave us this wide range of his art so that we can continue to enjoy different aspects of him. And you have been a fan for so much longer!!! I have also been pacing myself in discovering new things about Michael as a way to protect from him taking over my life.


Michael feels
Oh, he is Dangerous!! ;) and we love him for that! He is magical, and we have to learn to control that magic otherwise it will explode and destroy. (Sorry, Harry Potter analogy popped up in my head)
 
Yes, I can understand why Whatever Happens would be tricky for you to listen to just now. Warm hugs.
Thanks. This song is my own internal measure of how I am doing. From not being able to listen to full song without down on the floor sobbing, to be able to listen with tears, and goal is to be able to listen to the whole song without tearing up.

Back to the voice topic, I can picture him singing or dancing to most of the songs even those that he did not perform on stage. That makes the voice itself so much more relatable. He put so much of himself into the creation process that it makes everything come alive. I think I am repeating myself now :) , not able to put my thoughts into words anymore. I will just read now :D
 
Thanks. This song is my own internal measure of how I am doing. From not being able to listen to full song without down on the floor sobbing, to be able to listen with tears, and goal is to be able to listen to the whole song without tearing up.

Back to the voice topic, I can picture him singing or dancing to most of the songs even those that he did not perform on stage. That makes the voice itself so much more relatable. He put so much of himself into the creation process that it makes everything come alive. I think I am repeating myself now :) , not able to put my thoughts into words anymore. I will just read now :D
That sounds like a good plan. Just taking your time and working towards that end goal. When I listen to We've Had Enough I always have plenty of 'antidote' songs on hand to help me recover after I've finished listening.

Mm, sometimes I do that. Picture Michael singing some of the songs he didn't perform onstage. Sometimes it's quite a concrete picture, other times more vague, more of an impression. It's always lovely when it happens. I haven't watched that much live footage of him performing but my brain does seem to like focusing on the songs that never made it onto a set list.
 
@staywild23

So I was looking for something (didn't find it, obvs) and found some quotes I'd scribbled down a while ago. There is a French woman called Isabelle Petitjean who has written about Michael. One of her books is called 'Voice Upon A Time: from Motown to Bruce Swedien ... '

Brice Najar quotes a few lines from her book on his website. Not clear whether he's done the translation or Isabelle.

"Michael Jackson is a scout whose flame is his music. He carried it high, so that we can see it - from as far away as we live on the planet - and follow it. He didn't tell us the path would be short and easy, but he told us not to give up, as he always fought. This legacy, which I believe is more spiritual than temporal, more mystical than artistic, goes beyond appearances and human means." (Isabelle Petitjean)

On Isabelle's own website she has a series of tiny essays, one of which is called 'Michael Jackson - a mystical voice'

Here's a little bit from the essay:

"Is this voice really human? Who really owns this organic body that hosts it and sends it back to the universe? How is it possible that a single being is capable of such a palette of expression and emotion?

Because, finally, this voice is not that of a single man. The frequencies and vibrations it emits, the emotion and meaning it carries are not the expression of a single life ... It is often said ... that the brain is not a transmitter of the spirit but rather a receiver. Well, I say that Michael's voice is not the witness of a single human life, but the receiver of something greater.

Is his voice the tangible proof of a greater presence that inhabited him, or is it the proof that this frail body did indeed shelter an old soul, as he liked to say." (Isabelle Petitjean)

As far as I can tell Isabelle is firmly supportive of Michael so I'm going to assume it's OK to quote her here. I just thought these quotes were quite interesting in the context of your question.

That said, apologies for posting again. I seem to be clogging up your thread. 😯
 
is it the proof that this frail body did indeed shelter an old soul, as he liked to say
OMG, did he actually used the words 'old soul' or it's just her interpretation? That was the first thing came to my mind when I started know more about his life and childhood. It is a concept in spirituality and some religions. I won't bore with details here, happy to chat elsewhere.
 
OMG, did he actually used the words 'old soul' or it's just her interpretation? That was the first thing came to my mind when I started know more about his life and childhood. It is a concept in spirituality and some religions. I won't bore with details here, happy to chat elsewhere.
I don't know, I wish I knew. I'm the wrong person to ask since I don't even read books about Michael.

I have seen reference made to this 'old soul' idea twice before and I'm pretty sure one of those times was somewhere here on the board but can't remember which thread or even when. I was lurking long before I signed up. Also have seen fleeting reference to it on a YT comment. But that's not conclusive.

I can't find out much about Isabelle's thought processes. These little essays are in English but her books seem to be in French. And all of the interviews on YT seem to be in French. The one I have seen (in Yoann Bomal's documentary) does have English subtitles but this concept isn't touched upon.

I would love to know more about Michael in relation to this idea. You're right, it makes so much sense. I don't know a great deal about it myself but I can easily imagine Michael finding the idea interesting and appealing.

I wonder if it's on those Michael Jackson Tapes that he did with Rabbi Boteach. He hasn't said anything in any of the interview clips on YT. Is it in Moonwalk? Is it in Dancing the Dream? I haven't read either so I have no idea.

I wish I could throw some light on this but I can't.
 
Ok, you got me interested now. I have talked about this in one of the earlier threads. Though it's somewhat religious so I am hesitant to talk more. Typically phrase is used for a child who shows understanding of the world older than their age.
 
Ok, you got me interested now. I have talked about this in one of the earlier threads. Though it's somewhat religious so I am hesitant to talk more. It would also be strange for him to talk about himself being an old soul more than in just offhand comments, it's too personal. It comes from religions (at least how I came to know through a friend) that believe in reincarnation.
OK, so I just checked the Isabelle interview in the Yoann Bomal doc and they definitely don't talk about this. If you haven't watched it you might wanna check it out, though. The whole doc is 1hr 17m (and it's brilliant, imo) but for now you might wanna just check out the interview with Isabelle. It's really interesting. I do get a bit confused towards the end, though. She mentions a book called Jonathan Livingstone Seagull and she has an original copy of it and she seems to be saying that she has Michael's actual copy. She talks about one the main themes of the book and then shows some pages which have handwriting on them with little notes about an idea for an animation based on the book. I think it's meant to be Michael's ideas but I keep thinking I must have got that wrong. I wouldn't recognise Michael's handwriting if it asked me for a dance, being as I'm not really a fan and all.

If you wanna check it out you need to Google Devenir Michael Jackson. Your time stamp for the interview with Isabelle is from 25m 45s - 30m 50s. The Jonathan Livingstone Seagull stuff is right at the end of that section. Can't give you a link, soz, can't do 'em.

Conversation in French, English subtitles.

What's hilarious about this for me is that this book was a really big deal back in the day but I couldn't be bothered to read it. One of my friends was obsessed with it and was always trying to get me to read it but it just didn't interest me even though I am a little bit flaky and New Agey. It would be so funny to me if this turns out to be one of Michael's fave books.
 
Your 2nd and 3rd paragraph, almost every word. Pure gold. Absolute pure gold. The only bit in the 2nd paragraph that doesn't resonate with me is your point about, you need to join up with Michael fans to watch his shows or whatever. I'm the complete opposite. I have to head in the opposite direction into my own private space. But, apart from that, I could have pretty much written that. Michael absolutely IS sensory overload. I've only realised in the last 12 months or so how protective my brain has been, how it has managed this whole Michael thing for my benefit without me even knowing. Don't worry, I don't have a dissociative problem. I just mean, I think we all have an inner intelligence and, in my case, I often know what its up to but just as often I don't and when the penny drops it always amazes me. Yes, I kept my distance from Michael as a form of protection. In fact, I still do it now. And, yes, sometimes, loving Michael as much as I do, it almost feels unbearable even though that seems like a mad thing to say because he is so amazing and being into him is even more amazing. But it's heavy. He really does overwhelm me and I need space and time to recover. My brain needs time out but so does my body (and my spirit; you're absolutely right, there's the spiritual aspect as well). I definitely feel like I can't physically contain the feelings or emotions. And part of trying to deal with that is to try to express what he means to me or how he makes me feel but I am completely incapable of doing that plus trying to do that in itself also makes me feel overwhelmed.
---

Michael Jackson. Just his name is enough.

I'm so glad I captured how you were feeling also! I do get a sense that we respond similarly to Michael, which is very comforting lol. It's fascinating the way you describe distancing yourself from Michael as a form of self-protection. I feel like I am sort of the opposite. Because as much as I can't handle him and need breaks from how intense my own reaction to him is, such as when I'm watching a concert, it actually just makes me obsess about him more. More than anything, I struggle *tremendously* to reign in the attention I pay to Michael. I have lost SO much sleep because I will stay up watching videos of him, or reading articles or books about him. I often find it hard to focus on work because I have a new thought about him that I want to explore. I mean, I am very obsessed lol. And no matter how much he overwhelms me on any level, it's like I can't keep away from him as a source of constant stimulation. It's bizarre and honestly unlike anything else I've experienced. It's really why I feel so confused about all these different aspects of him that make him so special. I genuinely don't know how to detach myself from him.

But again, all of this is similar to the way I am with the things in my life. As much as I have never, ever obsessed about another celebrity or figure like I have with him, I am someone who tends to go all in with most things. My approach to life has often been to just squeeze as much feeling and experience out of everything that I can. I have thrown myself head first into so many situations, for better or worse, because of my desire to feel the most alert aliveness that I can. So I think with Michael stimulating SO much in me, as often as I feel that sensory overload and have to step away, I almost immediately return to him. Does that makes sense? All of this sounds so insane when written out lol.

---Yes, I am definitely at a point now when just his name gets me excited lol. I guess there is just so much that I attach to it.

Oh, and also to clarify, I actually do not need to be with other fans to watch his stuff. Actually, I just find it really hard to force myself to watch a concert in one sitting. So being with other people to do it kind of forces that process. But as @Hiker can attest to, I really have a hard time keeping it together in that process. While we just chatted during, on my end of the screen I was literally screaming and sweating and my heart rate was out of control. It's really something lol.

@staywild23

P.S. So I said I play We've Had Enough loads. Total lie. I play it very sparingly. At first, I did play it loads. Multiple times every day for months. But then I had to stop for several months. And when I started again I put it onto a careful timetable. Because it makes me cry. I don't mean feeling tearful or extremely emotional. That would be Is It Scary or any one of many other Michael songs. No, with WHE it's proper sobbing. Real shaking and sobbing. And it happens a lot. Which makes me sound like a basket case but, then again, I think that ship has already sailed.

Early on, Is It Scary also made me cry a lot but, in time, that calmed down and I now have many different reactions to it as I do to any of Michael's songs. So I don't think there's a Pavlov's dog thing going on with WHE. I don't know why it happens. It just does.

All of this talk of crying and keeping Michael at a safe distance probably makes it sound like my Michael experience is a bit grim or perhaps a bit dry and shallow. In fact, it's very rich and fulfilling and joyful and full of laughter and excitement not to mention it's so intellectually engaging and fascinating. And so much of that, of course, is directly tied to his voice. The experience of listening to that voice is a whole universe of experience in itself. Definitely joyful.

I ended up listening to We've Had Enough a few times last night and it is, of course, incredible. But honestly, I don't think I'm reading for the Invincible album yet and everything that comes with that. I am really unwilling to go past Blood on the Dance Floor right now. Actually, I mentioned this somewhere I think, but I am really rationing how I approach learning Michael's music. I am really pacing myself with how much I expose myself too, because overexposure makes it hard for me to appreciate it. Everytime I listen to the songs I know best, I still find myself discovering new things to love. I feel like my heart will tell me when I"m reading to move into new territory and expand into his later music and the unreleased stuff. For now, I am almost wanting to make myself sick on the current music I love before I move on lol.

Oh! And I ended up listening to Is it Scary? several times last night and I had a really emotional response to it. I love that song. The first time I heard it I remember my mouth just hanging open through most of it because I was just so stunned by it. But last night I was listening to it and finding myself HEAVILY relating to it in a way that was really shocking. Not to get too deep, or personal, but it reminded me a lot of my response to sexual trauma and my behavior in recreating traumatic situations, which lasted many years. Kind of "becoming" a version of myself that someone else made me, if that makes sense. Anyway, I just found myself flashing back to stuff when I was listening to it and I felt a deep resonance inside of me. Once again, I wish I had Michael in my life sooner than I did. I really think he could have saved me from some of my worst experiences.
It's so interesting you said Michael's voice is like a security blanket. StayWild23 said a similar thing, IIRC. Michael makes her feel warm and safe, I think that's what she said. I tried to write a response to that because Michael feels dangerous to me but I couldn't do it without it coming out all wrong. Because I didn't mean dangerous as in 'nasty' or anything at all horrible. I know what I mean but it's just out of reach. I'll have to leave that one.

But to return to your main point. No question I can and often do use Michael's music as a sort of therapy. It's incredibly effective. He used to talk a lot about the 'magic'. I wonder if he knew just how much of a magician he actually was.

The thing about the "warm and safe" bit is that it's not just his voice, it is everything about him. It is him at his sweetest and most adorable and innocent, and it is him at his rawest and sexiest. ALL of it makes me feel safe. All of it makes me feel loved and cared for, somehow. It's bizarre. I feel safe just knowing he existed in the world and I feel safe like he can somehow redirected me to the things that matter in life and never let me fall off course. The way I'm describing it I realize is how people describe religion and loving religious figures. I'm not sure if what I'm saying then sounds more or less insane. But it's just how I feel. I think because I spent such a tremendous amount of my life feelings incurably broken, discovering that this major cultural figure who I've known of my entire life was actually also this incredible human being gives me a sense of calm and safety in the world. Almost like a reminder that anyone can be anything and there is so much possibility and beauty to discover in the world still. I generally have a very positive outlook on life and I am, admittedly, shamelessly idealistic despite being exploited quite a lot. But I somehow just identify with Michael in a very deeply human, yet profoundly spiritual way.

God, I'm rambling a lot. Needless to say, this conversation has me contemplating a lot of my feelings and where they are stemming from. All I know is, my love for Michael is beyond anything I ever expected to feel.
 
@Hiker

Just real quick. Basic gist of JLS book (discussed in interview) - limiting bodies, wanting to go beyond the body's capacities so as to be limited by nothing at all.

Can totally see why that would appeal to Michael. Also can see why he'd want to do an animation based on those ideas.
 
On Isabelle's own website she has a series of tiny essays, one of which is called 'Michael Jackson - a mystical voice'

Here's a little bit from the essay:

"Is this voice really human? Who really owns this organic body that hosts it and sends it back to the universe? How is it possible that a single being is capable of such a palette of expression and emotion?

Because, finally, this voice is not that of a single man. The frequencies and vibrations it emits, the emotion and meaning it carries are not the expression of a single life ... It is often said ... that the brain is not a transmitter of the spirit but rather a receiver. Well, I say that Michael's voice is not the witness of a single human life, but the receiver of something greater.

Is his voice the tangible proof of a greater presence that inhabited him, or is it the proof that this frail body did indeed shelter an old soul, as he liked to say." (Isabelle Petitjean)

I love this so much. Thank you for sharing it. It satisfies me to no end that this conversation we are having is one contemplated by so many other people. Think about it. With how massive Michael's reach has been, how many people have sat around pondering in their hearts these questions about how and why he is able to reach them? I just think it's beautiful how one person could bring so much to the world. In some ways I feel like Michael is a secret I just discovered, even though he is the most famous person that ever lived. It's strange. But I'm getting off track again...

"Is this voice really human?" I ask this so many times. Sometimes I think the only reason I believe Michael Jackson actually was human is Will You Be There? when he cries it out so many times for us to understand. I love where she goes with this, talking about frequencies and vibrations of expression that he receives...this mirrors so much of how he spoke about himself as an "instrument of nature" and genuinely believed his art came to him through God. I believe that too, in a spiritual sense. Though I was raised with religion, I never attached to it. But I have always felt a spiritual connection to the universe. For many years I've been developing my own kind of relationship to what I believe higher power actually looks like and what our souls are and where the stem from...anyway, one of the first songs of Michael's that deeply resonated with me was Another Part of Me, because I feel like the lyrics and the performance of it feels so directly in tune with what I believe to be true about life and our simultaneous existence among one another.

I am way off topic again and I"m sorry. Nevertheless, I want to remind you again that I REALLY love your contributions to all of these conversations. Your deep thoughts and expressions are so beautiful to me, so don't ever apologize for anything you share :)
 
OK, so I just checked the Isabelle interview in the Yoann Bomal doc and they definitely don't talk about this. If you haven't watched it you might wanna check it out, though. The whole doc is 1hr 17m (and it's brilliant, imo) but for now you might wanna just check out the interview with Isabelle. It's really interesting. I do get a bit confused towards the end, though. She mentions a book called Jonathan Livingstone Seagull and she has an original copy of it and she seems to be saying that she has Michael's actual copy. She talks about one the main themes of the book and then shows some pages which have handwriting on them with little notes about an idea for an animation based on the book. I think it's meant to be Michael's ideas but I keep thinking I must have got that wrong. I wouldn't recognise Michael's handwriting if it asked me for a dance, being as I'm not really a fan and all.
:) I tried to remove the religious mention from my post, but you were too fast and captured it in the response 😁 I just did not want to offend anyone.

I usually don't read stuff that other people say about Michael, I just find it so confusing to separate truth from made up stuff. There is so much out there, most people trying to claim things or claim to know him just to make money. The real stuff gets lost in that garbage. So I just don't read it.
 
I'm so glad I captured how you were feeling also! I do get a sense that we respond similarly to Michael, which is very comforting lol. It's fascinating the way you describe distancing yourself from Michael as a form of self-protection. I feel like I am sort of the opposite. Because as much as I can't handle him and need breaks from how intense my own reaction to him is, such as when I'm watching a concert, it actually just makes me obsess about him more. More than anything, I struggle *tremendously* to reign in the attention I pay to Michael. I have lost SO much sleep because I will stay up watching videos of him, or reading articles or books about him. I often find it hard to focus on work because I have a new thought about him that I want to explore. I mean, I am very obsessed lol. And no matter how much he overwhelms me on any level, it's like I can't keep away from him as a source of constant stimulation. It's bizarre and honestly unlike anything else I've experienced. It's really why I feel so confused about all these different aspects of him that make him so special. I genuinely don't know how to detach myself from him.

But again, all of this is similar to the way I am with the things in my life. As much as I have never, ever obsessed about another celebrity or figure like I have with him, I am someone who tends to go all in with most things. My approach to life has often been to just squeeze as much feeling and experience out of everything that I can. I have thrown myself head first into so many situations, for better or worse, because of my desire to feel the most alert aliveness that I can. So I think with Michael stimulating SO much in me, as often as I feel that sensory overload and have to step away, I almost immediately return to him. Does that makes sense? All of this sounds so insane when written out lol.

---Yes, I am definitely at a point now when just his name gets me excited lol. I guess there is just so much that I attach to it.

Oh, and also to clarify, I actually do not need to be with other fans to watch his stuff. Actually, I just find it really hard to force myself to watch a concert in one sitting. So being with other people to do it kind of forces that process. But as @Hiker can attest to, I really have a hard time keeping it together in that process. While we just chatted during, on my end of the screen I was literally screaming and sweating and my heart rate was out of control. It's really something lol.



I ended up listening to We've Had Enough a few times last night and it is, of course, incredible. But honestly, I don't think I'm reading for the Invincible album yet and everything that comes with that. I am really unwilling to go past Blood on the Dance Floor right now. Actually, I mentioned this somewhere I think, but I am really rationing how I approach learning Michael's music. I am really pacing myself with how much I expose myself too, because overexposure makes it hard for me to appreciate it. Everytime I listen to the songs I know best, I still find myself discovering new things to love. I feel like my heart will tell me when I"m reading to move into new territory and expand into his later music and the unreleased stuff. For now, I am almost wanting to make myself sick on the current music I love before I move on lol.

Oh! And I ended up listening to Is it Scary? several times last night and I had a really emotional response to it. I love that song. The first time I heard it I remember my mouth just hanging open through most of it because I was just so stunned by it. But last night I was listening to it and finding myself HEAVILY relating to it in a way that was really shocking. Not to get too deep, or personal, but it reminded me a lot of my response to sexual trauma and my behavior in recreating traumatic situations, which lasted many years. Kind of "becoming" a version of myself that someone else made me, if that makes sense. Anyway, I just found myself flashing back to stuff when I was listening to it and I felt a deep resonance inside of me. Once again, I wish I had Michael in my life sooner than I did. I really think he could have saved me from some of my worst experiences.


The thing about the "warm and safe" bit is that it's not just his voice, it is everything about him. It is him at his sweetest and most adorable and innocent, and it is him at his rawest and sexiest. ALL of it makes me feel safe. All of it makes me feel loved and cared for, somehow. It's bizarre. I feel safe just knowing he existed in the world and I feel safe like he can somehow redirected me to the things that matter in life and never let me fall off course. The way I'm describing it I realize is how people describe religion and loving religious figures. I'm not sure if what I'm saying then sounds more or less insane. But it's just how I feel. I think because I spent such a tremendous amount of my life feelings incurably broken, discovering that this major cultural figure who I've known of my entire life was actually also this incredible human being gives me a sense of calm and safety in the world. Almost like a reminder that anyone can be anything and there is so much possibility and beauty to discover in the world still. I generally have a very positive outlook on life and I am, admittedly, shamelessly idealistic despite being exploited quite a lot. But I somehow just identify with Michael in a very deeply human, yet profoundly spiritual way.

God, I'm rambling a lot. Needless to say, this conversation has me contemplating a lot of my feelings and where they are stemming from. All I know is, my love for Michael is beyond anything I ever expected to feel.
You are a fabulous writer and your insights are always so interesting. Always lots of stuff to reflect on and wrestle with which I love. Absolutely love reading what you have to say about Michael. Just saying.

I'm going to jump straight to your comments about Is It Scary. Oh, before I get into that, can I just say I understand how you feel (at least, I think I do) re playing new songs. Just recently I've been listening to a lot of Michael stuff that is new to me. Particularly J5 and Jacksons stuff because I didn't know they did albums and would not have listened to them even had I known. So a lot of new stuff for me to become acquainted with. This week I've been getting back to my old faves and, oh my, it feels like coming home. It really does. I'm quite sure I'm going to have a long and beautiful relationship with Be Not Always or True Love Can Be Beautiful. But I honestly don't think they will ever supplant Whatever Happens or Is It Scary or Cry. My Michael songs are my safe spaces. Even the ones that are difficult or painful. I'm always open to all phases of Michael's career, especially as I did love J5 back in the day. But, I dunno, the songs that I have such a strong bond with, nothing will ever match that. I really believe that.

Plus it's all about pacing yourself to take on the various different aspects of Michael's life and career. Especially when it's a difficult period. This is where not being a fan has been so amazing and helpful. When I saw TII I didn't have any of the back story. Well, most people didn't cos the AEG trial hadn't happened yet but, I mean, there was some stuff that the fans knew. But I didn't so I was able to watch it for itself. Same with Invincible. I didn't know all the hoo-ha in Michael's life at that time. I was aware of the fight with Sony, didn't know all the details (still don't, still don't want to) so was able to listen to the album with no baggage attached. I definitely believe you have to be ready to move onto the next thing and not push yourself just because there is all this new stuff to discover. It's not going anywhere. It'll be there when you're ready for it.

Anyway. Is It Scary. Doesn't surprise me at all that you would have such a strong, visceral reaction. It would be hard not to respond to the pain in Michael's voice. I don't think you'd even have to understand brokenness to be able to relate. And who gets into adulthood and doesn't carry some level of brokenness? I don't think you even need to key into the lyrics, it's all there in his voice. And I know what you mean about sitting there with your mouth hanging open. When I was getting to know the song I spent the whole time holding my hands to my face or covering my mouth. Even now I still have to cover my mouth quite often. I've even had my hands over my face and I'm looking through my fingers at the CD player (I'm old school). Sometimes I'm pushing myself physically backwards away from the CD player, to get some more space between me and the song. It's like I sometimes need a protective barrier between me and the song. For I don't know how long, every single time I listened to Is It Scary I had to follow it with several 'antidote' songs. I don't have to do that anymore. I still have to do it for We've Had Enough but not for Is It Scary. Which I consider to be progress!

And I think the fact that you related to it heavily and in a way that you found somewhat shocking; well, it is a shocking song. Those lyrics, once you do key into them, just so raw, angry, full of hurt, fear. I can certainly listen to the song without falling to pieces (hello, FNM) but, that said, my reaction to it is never going to be tidy and minimal. Although I do occasionally respond to it as if it's an opera which is somewhat less exhausting. Am convinced that's my brain taking care of me again. Giving me a break from it all.

I have found Is It Scary to be kind of terrible, as an experience, but also really cathartic and cleansing. I do think artists dive into the pain for a reason. Not necessarily knowingly but I do think when they do that they are helping us. I'm not sure exactly how it works but I do think the painful stuff helps us. We're not living in a Disney film.

And it's good to spend time with BOTDF. It doesn't get enough love, imo. I don't know why. I mean, I don't bother with the remixes. But the five new songs are so brilliant, how could you not want to spend quality time with those songs?
 
The thing about the "warm and safe" bit is that it's not just his voice, it is everything about him. It is him at his sweetest and most adorable and innocent, and it is him at his rawest and sexiest. ALL of it makes me feel safe. All of it makes me feel loved and cared for, somehow. It's bizarre. I feel safe just knowing he existed in the world and I feel safe like he can somehow redirected me to the things that matter in life and never let me fall off course. The way I'm describing it I realize is how people describe religion and loving religious figures. I'm not sure if what I'm saying then sounds more or less insane.
I feel the same about him being my security blanket. I don't think its all just a coincidence that Michael came into my life at this moment, and yes "redirect me to things that matter", is exactly what he is doing. I feel like I had lost my way, lost myself and he came to bring me back to reality. Whether I will succeed in getting back on track is up to me though. What you are describing sounds like religion, but its actually faith. In my own words - faith is where you are following your own path, what you think is right and wrong but you believe there is someone/something that is guiding you, there is some higher purpose to it all, and faith that this someone/something will prevent things from going absolutely out of control. But you are still following yourself and not someone else. You can have faith in anything, which I call is your own incarnation of this abstract higher power. Don't know if that makes any sense. But nothing you said is insane :)

But I have always felt a spiritual connection to the universe. For many years I've been developing my own kind of relationship to what I believe higher power actually looks like and what our souls are and where the stem from...anyway, one of the first songs of Michael's that deeply resonated with me was Another Part of Me, because I feel like the lyrics and the performance of it feels so directly in tune with what I believe to be true about life and our simultaneous existence among one another
Absolutely what I said before about faith. Will talk more in conversation. I had the same reaction to Another Part of Me.
 
:) I tried to remove the religious mention from my post, but you were too fast and captured it in the response 😁 I just did not want to offend anyone.

I usually don't read stuff that other people say about Michael, I just find it so confusing to separate truth from made up stuff. There is so much out there, most people trying to claim things or claim to know him just to make money. The real stuff gets lost in that garbage. So I just don't read it.
Looks like the real deal. Seems Michael did own a first edition of the book which was auctioned off in 2013. The pictures I've seen of the annotated page match the page Isabelle was showing to Yoann in his doc. Seems Michael really did have an idea for an animation of the book. Apparently it was one of his fave books and he used to give copies to people. I can certainly see him being inspired by the story. A good match for his mindset, I would say.

It does seem to be Michael's actual copy that she has and I'm glad. Because she certainly seems to love him. She's exactly the type of person who should have his stuff if it has to be sold off. Not sure why the Estate couldn't buy it but I bet she looks after it better than they would and loves it more so maybe it's all for the best.

I'm going to get myself a copy and read it. Which is beyond hilarious given my reluctance to read it all those years ago. It was THE hot book at the time and I just didn't wanna know.

This is just killing me.
 
limiting bodies, wanting to go beyond the body's capacities so as to be limited by nothing at all.
Yeah, that does sound like something that would interest Michael. He talked a lot about magic and going beyond and not limiting self in his books. Maybe I will try to read it too.
 
@staywild23

"But I somehow just identify with Michael in a very deeply human, yet profoundly spiritual way."

I've never done the World Cry Day - not sure if it still happens. But I do the Major Love Prayer every month and I know it's supposed to be all about feeling connected to our fellow human beings and I do try to focus on that but, ngl, I feel way more connected to Michael when I do it. I certainly find it easier to maintain my focus if Michael is centred in my thoughts and then I can send *that* out to whoever / where-ever. And some months, if I'm too tired to do it the 'official' way, I just use APOM as the basis for my thoughts, prayers, meditation, whatever it's meant to be. It's been a really interesting process.
 
You are a fabulous writer and your insights are always so interesting. Always lots of stuff to reflect on and wrestle with which I love. Absolutely love reading what you have to say about Michael. Just saying.
Thank you so much for this comment! I feel the same about reading your thoughts on Michael! It's so fun to meet and talk with people who are also so passionately invested in understanding this man and exploring different sides of him! I get so much joy out of all of this!

I'm going to jump straight to your comments about Is It Scary. Oh, before I get into that, can I just say I understand how you feel (at least, I think I do) re playing new songs. Just recently I've been listening to a lot of Michael stuff that is new to me. Particularly J5 and Jacksons stuff because I didn't know they did albums and would not have listened to them even had I known. So a lot of new stuff for me to become acquainted with. This week I've been getting back to my old faves and, oh my, it feels like coming home. It really does. I'm quite sure I'm going to have a long and beautiful relationship with Be Not Always or True Love Can Be Beautiful. But I honestly don't think they will ever supplant Whatever Happens or Is It Scary or Cry. My Michael songs are my safe spaces. Even the ones that are difficult or painful. I'm always open to all phases of Michael's career, especially as I did love J5 back in the day. But, I dunno, the songs that I have such a strong bond with, nothing will ever match that. I really believe that.

Plus it's all about pacing yourself to take on the various different aspects of Michael's life and career. Especially when it's a difficult period. This is where not being a fan has been so amazing and helpful. When I saw TII I didn't have any of the back story. Well, most people didn't cos the AEG trial hadn't happened yet but, I mean, there was some stuff that the fans knew. But I didn't so I was able to watch it for itself. Same with Invincible. I didn't know all the hoo-ha in Michael's life at that time. I was aware of the fight with Sony, didn't know all the details (still don't, still don't want to) so was able to listen to the album with no baggage attached. I definitely believe you have to be ready to move onto the next thing and not push yourself just because there is all this new stuff to discover. It's not going anywhere. It'll be there when you're ready for it.

It's interesting that you are exploring J5 and the Jacksons more now, but never have before! I actually have been feeling drawn toward exploring that time period too! I really want to know all of the music Michael was involved in. I think what tends to happen though when I do gravitate toward those time frames is I end up missing Michael. Like, I miss the full freedom he has as a solo performer and I long for it, which is why I return to his solo work. But at the same time, i feel scared to really invest in HIStory (I know about half the songs) and everything that comes after, because Michael's pain is very, very hard for me to handle, as I know you understand. So when I think about exploring the sides of Michael unknown to me, I feel "safer" going to the J5 and Jacksons time, but then I end up longing for adult Michael, and it results in me lingering between Off the Wall and Dangerous. I'm not complaining, but it's hard lol. Anyway, I am glad you are enjoying this experience! Are you going through album by album, or just kind of randomly exploring all the pre-Off the Wall times as they come to you?

Also, I know exactly what you mean about how not knowing the context of Michael's life might make the music easier to enjoy (I'm not sure you actually said it this way, but I'm taking it that way lol). I don't know hardly anything about the Sony stuff in the 2000s and I imagine it would make TII easier to watch, however, I can't handle the idea of watching TII yet (even though I very badly want to) because I can't emotionally handle thinking about his death. I have limitations still. Sometimes I think my feelings about Michael are just straight up insane. I have sobbed so many times over him. I sometimes get struck, like a punch to the gut, with a reminder that he died and died in a horrible, unfair way, and it levels me for days. I love him so much, almost like he's a person I actually know. I still don't know or understand why I came to discover him this year, but I can't turn off the switch of how much I just love him, so deeply. And anyway, it just makes it hard to explore any of his music or any parts of his life that are riddled with pain. And since SO much of his life is riddled with pain and since I'm addicted to him and can't keep away from content about him, I find that I am constantly cycling through this bombardment of emotions about all the worst times in his life. I guess this is part of why I also avoid the HiStory album. I know so much of it stemmed from very real pain from what was happening in his life and I just can't physically stomach thinking about it. Ugh. Sorry this totally got away from me... I guess my point is that I agree with you completely about pacing myself. It's necessary. To process it all properly, I need the time.
Anyway. Is It Scary. Doesn't surprise me at all that you would have such a strong, visceral reaction. It would be hard not to respond to the pain in Michael's voice. I don't think you'd even have to understand brokenness to be able to relate. And who gets into adulthood and doesn't carry some level of brokenness? I don't think you even need to key into the lyrics, it's all there in his voice. And I know what you mean about sitting there with your mouth hanging open. When I was getting to know the song I spent the whole time holding my hands to my face or covering my mouth. Even now I still have to cover my mouth quite often. I've even had my hands over my face and I'm looking through my fingers at the CD player (I'm old school). Sometimes I'm pushing myself physically backwards away from the CD player, to get some more space between me and the song. It's like I sometimes need a protective barrier between me and the song. For I don't know how long, every single time I listened to Is It Scary I had to follow it with several 'antidote' songs. I don't have to do that anymore. I still have to do it for We've Had Enough but not for Is It Scary. Which I consider to be progress!

And I think the fact that you related to it heavily and in a way that you found somewhat shocking; well, it is a shocking song. Those lyrics, once you do key into them, just so raw, angry, full of hurt, fear. I can certainly listen to the song without falling to pieces (hello, FNM) but, that said, my reaction to it is never going to be tidy and minimal. Although I do occasionally respond to it as if it's an opera which is somewhat less exhausting. Am convinced that's my brain taking care of me again. Giving me a break from it all.

I LOVE how you describe your response to Is it Scary. THAT is a visceral reaction -- the physical movement away from the music, the covering your face, the need for a protective barrier and antidote songs. Wow. What a way of explaining your emotional response to it! But I completely understand this. What you described is almost exactly how I respond to too many live performances in a row. It raises the heat inside of me somehow and I can't breathe. It's positively overwhelming. To have that kind of emotional response just to his voice though -- for the longest time that was me with Will You Be There. I could not function when I heard that song. It brought me to tears so much.

One of the classes I'm teaching this semester, I have a section of students who I just have this really deep connection with. Almost every class sort of devolves into some kind of a therapy session and it's extremely emotional and I feel like I am having this mass experience of connectedness and love and it's really quite something. Anyway, the very first week, second class, was the first time I experienced this with that section. And there was a moment where I was directing a discussion that was really going to some intense places and I sort of stepped back in the moment and observed it really separate of myself, and I will always remember Will You Be There popped into my head and I felt SO spiritually connected to the universe and my purpose and these students. It was quite beautiful.
I have found Is It Scary to be kind of terrible, as an experience, but also really cathartic and cleansing. I do think artists dive into the pain for a reason. Not necessarily knowingly but I do think when they do that they are helping us. I'm not sure exactly how it works but I do think the painful stuff helps us. We're not living in a Disney film.

And it's good to spend time with BOTDF. It doesn't get enough love, imo. I don't know why. I mean, I don't bother with the remixes. But the five new songs are so brilliant, how could you not want to spend quality time with those songs?

Anyway, i didn't mean to get so off track from Is it Scary. I love your passion for this song and the way you explain the pain in it. I don't think I have a lot to add anymore, but I just want to acknowledge this because you've given me even more of an appreciation for it!

Also, I totally agree about BOTDF! I actually haven't listened to any of those remixes yet and I am pretty sure Michael wasn't super happy with them (i heard this somewhere) and so I don't feel a strong urgency to listen to them. But those 5 new tracks are EXCEPTIONAL. They deserve all of the love and attention. They are absolutely masterful.
 
@staywild23

Was gonna do a quick reply today but that's now not possible. Just saw the thread about this new tweet from the Estate. Am so incandescent with rage I can hardly think.

I'm sure at some point I'll be able to think, 'well, it's hardly the worst thing that's happened to Michael'. Haven't reached that stage yet and don't expect to for some time.

😡
 
@staywild23

Was gonna do a quick reply today but that's now not possible. Just saw the thread about this new tweet from the Estate. Am so incandescent with rage I can hardly think.

I'm sure at some point I'll be able to think, 'well, it's hardly the worst thing that's happened to Michael'. Haven't reached that stage yet and don't expect to for some time.

😡
I completely understand. It’s absolutely distressing. I’m furious.

Also, there is no pressure to reply to any of the mammoth posts I wrote yesterday. I just, as usual, have a lot of feelings.
 
I needed something to distract myself from whole Twitter debacle, so I decided to sit down and watch Bad Wembley. I have only watched Bad tour once when I had just start discovering the world of Michael and then only in parts. I have to say, I am starting to see what all the hoopla about live singing vs lip singing is. I was able to make it only 40min or so. The live vocals are indeed out of this world! 🤯
It is not just the actual song, but the fillers sounds that he adds for extra effect, the hee hee, auu .... Just make everything come alive in a different way! I am speechless, I don't have the words to describe it. It was so good that it hurts your ears like too much beauty hurts your eyes.
I will still not go as far as saying HIStory was bad because of lip singing. HN is way sexier in Dangerous when the 🎤 and singing are not cramping his dancing, but still I get the appeal of live vocals. 🤯🤩
 
@staywild23

Pointless to let the Estate derail my day. Onwards and upwards!

This will be a random jumble of comments.

1 - Michael as a sex symbol - can't help you with that one. I think you need to talk to an actual fan. That's not me. I never paid attention to this sort of thing. He got a lot of negative press and he was definitely regarded as uncool. A lot of people were unconvinced by the Bad image. Some people thought he was trying too hard. I liked it although I don't think he looks comfortable in the album photo. I was disappointed that they didn't use the black lace photo. I think that would have been an amazing album cover, especially if they had used it as a black&white image rather than colour.

2 - you having thoughts about Michael at work and wanting to explore stuff straightaway. I'm having a sort of similar experience. Whenever I read stuff I always seem to link it immediately to Michael. It could be anything, a book review, an interview with a politician, an article about pilgrimage, anything at all and I can usually find something in it that makes me think about Michael. I can't bring any examples to mind right now although I do have a folder, lol. I don't mean I actively look for connections, I mean, I'm chugging along, reading the piece and then something I've just read reminds me of Michael in some way or seems relevant to some part of his life or story. It's weird.

3 - J5/Jacksons - I'm not really exploring the albums. I can already feel my enthusiasm waning, tbh. I'm so bonded with his adult solo career. I'm definitely open to all phases of his career and I did like J5 back in the day. It was all about Michael, though. He was such a good dancer even back then. He was so cool. He just had such good rhythm and an ability to go beyond the choreography. And already, at such a young age, miles ahead of the brothers. The Jacksons were quite disco / R&B which is not me so they didn't get much attention from me. Only Can You Feel It. Same with OTW, too much disco and R&B. Good album, just not to my taste. And, as you say, Michael at that point is very much still finding himself, very much in the process of creating himself. He hasn't quite got there yet so he's not getting too much attention from me. I bought a bunch of J5 albums a couple of weeks ago cos I wanted True Love Can Be Beautiful and was quite curious to see what else was on there. But, so far, I don't think they're going to become essential listening. Michael is brilliant but the songs are quite simple, the backing vocals from the brothers are fine but nothing special, imo. I don't think these songs are going to be part of my DNA. I'm pleased to have the opportunity to listen to them, though. If you haven't listened to True Love Can Be Beautiful I would recommend it. Michael's performance is astonishing even by his standards.

Actually, I'm saying I'm bonded to Michael's adult solo career. Well, kind of. I didn't buy any of his records when he was alive. When he died I bought all the CD's - except for History, no idea what that was about - but then didn't play many tracks. With BOTDF I only played the Scream remix so didn't hear Morphine or Is It Scary. Weird, huh? With Dangerous I only played Jam so didn't get to hear Keep The Faith. I had Number Ones on heavy rotation but the only album I played properly was Invincible. Few years down the line I got rid of all the CD's and then last year (or was it the year before?) bought them all again, this time with History. And just straightaway, automatically started playing all the songs (so why did I not do that first time around? Answer came there none!). So my relationship with Michael has gone on for a long time and yet, weirdly, is also really new. I can't even remember if I bought the CD's 2020 or 2021 but it feels as if I've had these songs in my DNA my whole life. The bond feels deep and irrevocable, deep like you could go on an archaeological dig and not get to the end of it. It genuinely feels like there has never been a time when these songs did not mean the world to me even though I know that's not the case.

Tool have been around since the 1990's but I only got into them a few years ago. Fontaines DC are fairly new, they have only just put out their third album. So when I listen to those bands it feels different to when I play my bands from the 70's or '80's. But with Michael's stuff it just always feels like I was into these songs since forever. Which makes no sense. Except it does.

I seem to have gone off on a tangent. Better stop.
 
I needed something to distract myself from whole Twitter debacle, so I decided to sit down and watch Bad Wembley. I have only watched Bad tour once when I had just start discovering the world of Michael and then only in parts. I have to say, I am starting to see what all the hoopla about live singing vs lip singing is. I was able to make it only 40min or so. The live vocals are indeed out of this world! 🤯
It is not just the actual song, but the fillers sounds that he adds for extra effect, the hee hee, auu .... Just make everything come alive in a different way! I am speechless, I don't have the words to describe it. It was so good that it hurts your ears like too much beauty hurts your eyes.

Oy, it took me a bit to get back to you on this, but I am glad to hear you started watching the Bad tour!!! Yes, the live vocals are INSANE! The vocals matched with the physical energy level and his just absolute gorgeousness is too much for me. The way you describe the vocals being so good they hurt your ears is how I feel about every single element of Michael's talent, physicality, vocal performance, appearance, etc., especially on the Bad tour. I've said it before and I'll say it again - total sensory overload in all ways when I watch any performances of that tour.

We will have to agree to disagree on which HN performance is sexier :) Predictably, Michael's sexiness in every performance on the Bad tour brings me to my knees. I don't even know who I am sometimes after I watch him!
 
Listening to Michael while doing morning chores and stumbled upon the acapella of Ain't No Sunshine recorded when he was, I believe, just 13 years old.

This is absolutely incredible. I got chills all over my body listening to this and was brought to tears. In fact, I'm still crying 5 minutes later. Just insane. Check it out if you haven't.


I think it's officially time for me to explore Michael's pre-Off the Wall solo work more. Wow.
 
Listening to Michael while doing morning chores and stumbled upon the acapella of Ain't No Sunshine recorded when he was, I believe, just 13 years old.

This is absolutely incredible. I got chills all over my body listening to this and was brought to tears. In fact, I'm still crying 5 minutes later. Just insane. Check it out if you haven't.


I think it's officially time for me to explore Michael's pre-Off the Wall solo work more. Wow.
Yep, it's beautiful. Bill Withers' version is awesome but Michael does such a great job here. I really like his 13 / 14 year old voice. Caught at that moment before he starts moving towards his older voice. So lovely.

So much of his Tamla solo stuff is beautiful. I like a lot of it much better than J5. You've listened to Music and Me? I find that one so poignant.
 
Yep, it's beautiful. Bill Withers' version is awesome but Michael does such a great job here. I really like his 13 / 14 year old voice. Caught at that moment before he starts moving towards his older voice. So lovely.

So much of his Tamla solo stuff is beautiful. I like a lot of it much better than J5. You've listened to Music and Me? I find that one so poignant.
I have listened to Music and Me! But I really haven't spent any time with most of his solo work before OTW, probably because I'm just so enamored with his adult voice. But GOD his voice as a child was just insane. I still don't feel fully recovered from this. I listened to it several times and I cried every time. So amazing.
 
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