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On the linguistics of Michael Jackson

Agonum

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Seeing as the thread I recently bumped had a rather narrow framing in that its subject was that of only  a c c e n t s ,  I’ve decided to start this new thread.

The focus of this thread is broad — wherefore I chose to label it  ‘ l i n g u i s t i c s ’  — although its primary focus is intended to be about the spoken word (as opposed to written, i.e., including vocals).

I welcome all examples and thoughts you are willing to share.

Proposed subtopics (updated August 14):
  • Phonetics/phonology
    • palatalization (￫Wikipedia)
      • “chid” (post #7)
      • “shamone” (posts #2, 4, 7)
    • monophthongization (￫Wkp.)
      • /aj/ ungliding (￫Wkp.) (post #105)
    • /ae/ raising (￫Wkp.) (post #105)
    • cot/caught merger (post #144)
    • initial /r/ cluster reduction (post #146)
  • Vocabulary
    • Evolution
    • Anomalies
      • “visionary” (post #27)
  • Phraseology
    • Idioms
      • “throwing stones to hide your hands” (posts #23, 24, 69)
  • Accent/dialect
    • African American English
    • Southern American English
    • Midwestern American English
  • Pronunciation
 
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On a less serious note...
I wouldn't be myself if I didn't say HE LOOKS SO RRHFKJFEHKRFHDFLKCLEFUHRFLKERHEF GOOD IN THE THUMBNAIL.
But the more important thing (is it?) - shamone / c'mon (I would transcribe it as /ˈʃʌmˌɔn/ as well!) was first used by Mavis Staples in 1975, there is even a thread on it.
 
I've seen some people surprised or confused with dog-gone. Here's the etymology:
www.etymonline.com

dog-gone | Etymology of dog-gone by etymonline

"fantastic perversion of god-damned" [Weekley]. But Mencken favors the theory that it is… See origin and meaning of dog-gone.
www.etymonline.com www.etymonline.com
It's clearly just a euphemism. Knowing the history of swearing, religious people were always hesitant to "take the name of the Lord in vain" and violate the taboo, hence the remodeling which led to the formation of dog-gone (girl is mine...).
 
turtleneck_sweater said:
But the more important thing (is it?) - shamone / c'mon (I would transcribe it as /ˈʃʌmˌɔn/ as well!) was first used by Mavis Staples in 1975, there is even a thread on it.
Click to expand...
Yes, this often gets overlooked. It’s a homage, the way I see it.

Speaking of which, it’s a bit surprising that Michael didn’t adopt more of James Brown’s plethora of recurring phrases (“Good God!” etc.).
 
turtleneck_sweater said:
I've seen some people surprised or confused with dog-gone. Here's the etymology:
www.etymonline.com

dog-gone | Etymology of dog-gone by etymonline

"fantastic perversion of god-damned" [Weekley]. But Mencken favors the theory that it is… See origin and meaning of dog-gone.
www.etymonline.com www.etymonline.com
It's clearly just a euphemism. Knowing the history of swearing, religious people were always hesitant to "take the name of the Lord in vain" and violate the taboo, hence the remodeling which led to the formation of dog-gone (girl is mine...).
Click to expand...
Yes, that’s an interesting one. I can’t say for now that I’ve heard it used by any other artists besides Michael and Stevie Wonder.

Bill Withers used another funny euphemism in “dud gamit”. I rank it up there with ‘doggone’. 🤤
 
turtleneck_sweater said:
On a less serious note...
I wouldn't be myself if I didn't say HE LOOKS SO RRHFKJFEHKRFHDFLKCLEFUHRFLKERHEF GOOD IN THE THUMBNAIL.
But the more important thing (is it?) - shamone / c'mon (I would transcribe it as /ˈʃʌmˌɔn/ as well!) was first used by Mavis Staples in 1975, there is even a thread on it.
Click to expand...
I do have to say, in the thumbnail of the first video Michael looks so amazing that it is hard to describe how amazing he looks.
 
So, I’d like to touch on the subject of Michael’s politeness. I’ve previously voiced an assumption that Rose Fine might have played a role in this, and I still think so, but I’ve now learned that an almost exaggerated politeness is typically observed in many southern states. Would love to hear your opinions on this.
 
Agonum said:
So, I’d like to touch on the subject of Michael’s politeness. I’ve previously voiced an assumption that Rose Fine might have played a role in this, and I still think so, but I’ve now learned that an almost exaggerated politeness is typically observed in many southern states. Would love to hear your opinions on this.
Click to expand...
Afaik, it is true that there is a really noticeable level of politeness in the language and general demeanor of people from the southern states. But I would say politeness is a national characteristic of Americans. It's something that I've noticed over and over. The funny thing is, whenever I mention this to an American, they always express surprise - almost disbelief. I think that is linked to the negative view that much of the world has re Americans and their behaviour. I'm generalising but not that much. There is a lot of negativity out there against Americans, they are aware of it and so any praise that comes their way kind of floors them. The politeness thing - they struggle with that, imo, bc of the stereotype of Americans (when abroad, in particular) as being unsophisticated and boorish.

I have never met an American yet who wasn't super polite. Their tone of voice, their vocab choices, their way of expressing themselves.

EDIT - I think Michael's politeness is made up of several layers. There's the politeness that I honestly think is a national characteristic for (most) Americans. Then a lot of it would come from Katherine, I think. There's extra layers from the Black community and from Michael's church community. Rose Fine probably added some more into the mix. The massive amount of training they must have had from Tamla adds loads more layers. And then, for adult Michael, I think he's weaving all of that into his own preferred way of communicating.
 
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Snowbunny Sorcerer said:
He had a Midwestern African American accent when they were signed to Motown, before Gordy trained they out of it.

They picked up a California dialect over the years.
Click to expand...
Whoa, hold your horses! There are several California dialects, which are you referring to? And surely Berry had other things to do than to tutor the Jackson brothers? 😅
 
zinniabooklover said:
Afaik, it is true that there is a really noticeable level of politeness in the language and general demeanor of people from the southern states. But I would say politeness is a national characteristic of Americans. It's something that I've noticed over and over. The funny thing is, whenever I mention this to an American, they always express surprise - almost disbelief. I think that is linked to the negative view that much of the world has re Americans and their behaviour. I'm generalising but not that much. There is a lot of negativity out there against Americans, they are aware of it and so any praise that comes their way kind of floors them. The politeness thing - they struggle with that, imo, bc of the stereotype of Americans (when abroad, in particular) as being unsophisticated and boorish.

I have never met an American yet who wasn't super polite. Their tone of voice, their vocab choices, their way of expressing themselves.

EDIT - I think Michael's politeness is made up of several layers. There's the politeness that I honestly think is a national characteristic for (most) Americans. Then a lot of it would come from Katherine, I think. There's extra layers from the Black community and from Michael's church community. Rose Fine probably added some more into the mix. The massive amount of training they must have had from Tamla adds loads more layers. And then, for adult Michael, I think he's weaving all of that into his own preferred way of communicating.
Click to expand...
Phenomenal write-up, I’m getting goose bumps over here! And you explain yourself so well. I know exactly what you mean in regards to the negative view of Americans. Really interesting!

I’m with you: Michael’s politeness is multi‐bottomed. Thanks for reminding me that one mustn’t forget Katherine in this equation.
 
www.aarp.org

Honoring the Musical Legacy of Motown Records

After 60 years, Berry Gordy reflects on the success of Motown Records and the musical legacy of the recording label and its many artists.
www.aarp.org www.aarp.org

"Motown’s public face — its artists — got dance and voice training, as well as mandatory style and comportment lessons, in Motown’s fabled Artist Development department, run by Miss Maxine Powell. Wardrobe, grooming, diction — Miss Powell had it covered. Her coaching did help prepare the Supremes, who grew up in Detroit’s Brewster-Douglas projects, to meet England’s “queen mum” and navigate the formal etiquette of Japan."


www.popmatters.com

Manufacturing Motown, PopMatters

For kids like me growing up in the 1960s in a working-class suburb of Detroit, the music of Motown was more than just something you tuned into while...
www.popmatters.com www.popmatters.com
"Another subsidiary, International Talent Management, Inc., handled all of the acts, including booking appearances and directing choreography for all performances, designing costumes, and even providing life-skills training for performer-employees in such things as etiquette, diction, and personal grooming. Motown’s so-called Charm School, where “civilizing” habits were taught, was in essence a knockoff of Ford’s dreaded Sociology Department, which monitored the company’s generally immigrant workforce to ensure “good behavior” in the plant and at home."
 
Today, on the topic of palatalization: we’ve touched upon ‘shamone’ ⟨ˈʃʌmˌɔn⟩ upthread, but mustn’t forget about ‘kid’ ￫‘chid’ ⟨ˈt͡ʃɪd⟩ in Billie Jean. I wonder if this was something Michael came up with (note that it’s a regular ‘kid’ in the 1981 home demo).

I would also love more examples of this phenomenon.
 
Agonum said:
Today, on the topic of palatalization: we’ve touched upon ‘shamone’ ⟨ˈʃʌmˌɔn⟩ upthread, but mustn’t forget about ‘kid’ ￫‘chid’ ⟨ˈt͡ʃɪd⟩ in Billie Jean.
Click to expand...
Erm, I posted a photo on the Sweat thread! 🫢

<reminder to self: don't give up the day job>
 
I have never heard anyone else saying "throwing stones to hide your hands"... The meaning was explained and I had to force it into my brain "OK ... it means that (still doesn't make any sense to me, or very very far-fetched)" ...
(English is not my mother language.)
 
Maxym said:
I have never heard anyone else saying "throwing stones to hide your hands"... The meaning was explained and I had to force it into my brain "OK ... it means that (still doesn't make any sense to me, or very very far-fetched)" ...
(English is not my mother language.)
Click to expand...
That’s an interesting one! From what I can gather, it seems to be a saying that is common in Spain? I wonder how Mike came about it, though. I’m honestly cluesless here. Hopefully a Spaniard or just generally knowledgable person can chime in.
 
Agonum said:
I don’t know what to make of this contribution of yours? 😅
Click to expand...
It was my feeble joke and by the time I've dragged myself through an explanation we will both have lost the will to live. :ROFLMAO:

Agonum said:
Today, on the topic of palatalization:
Click to expand...
This is the sort of linguistic jargon / technical language I don't understand - nor do I want to, no explanation needed, lol. I love the idea of sociolinguistics but whenever I pick up a book - allegedly aimed at a general readership - it's always full of stuff like this. Can't be doing with it. I wouldn't even mind if they included a glossary but they never do.

Agonum said:
we’ve touched upon ‘shamone’ ⟨ˈʃʌmˌɔn⟩
Click to expand...
that little bit I've bolded - can't remember the correct term for that, is that the IPA thing? - it's supposed to help you with the pronunciation, I believe. Apart from peeps actually studying linguistics I've never met anyone who understands that stuff. This is not a criticism, btw. Technical jargon exists for a reason.

For example, just recently I heard an English person using the word 'epitome'. But instead of pronouncing it as 'eh - pitt - oh - mee' it was pronounced as 'eppi - tome'. For us non-linguistics types, that's usually how we try to represent pronunciation, we use phonetic spellings. We wouldn't use that technical thing you just used (IPA?). But I'm only speaking for myself here. My lack of understanding is my responsibility and, again, absolutely no criticism intended.

So, my feeble joke was - I don't understand any of this stuff but I posted a really hot photo of Michael over on Sweat.

Look, it sounded OK in my head, lol. I cannot be held responsible for the mad gyrations of my brain. :ROFLMAO:

I think we can all agree I don't have a future as a stand-up comedienne. The world is grateful, lol.

Something else I've been thinking about again, just recently, is the way Michael oten referred to Rod Temperton as German. Rod was English. Born in Cleethorpes, went to school in Market Rasen, his first job was gutting fish in Grimsby. It doesn't get much more Lincolnshire than that. He did move to Germany to work with the guys who became Heatwave (think I've got that right). But Rod never lost his English accent. So it's intriguing to me, why Michael did that. He had German friends and played lots of concerts in Germany so I'm assuming he was used to the sound of English being spoken with a German accent.

Don't know if that fits into your 'Vocabulary - anomalies' section but I think this one does. In the MTV 1999 interview - which I completely adore - the interviewer asks about working with short film directors and how much input he has. Michael says he prefers videos with a story, a beginning, a middle and an ending. And then he says something like ... "But it depends on what the director wants, what his visionary is ..."

I assume he means 'vision' not 'visionary'. It doesn't matter bc it doesn't interfere with my understanding of what he's saying. But it intrigues me. I think there are a few other examples of this type of thing but that's the one I know best. As I say, it doesn't bother me, it's charming. But definitely intriguing.

Here's Michael and Rod having a little conversation. Rod can be heard at approx 30s. This is the Groove of Midnight audio clip.


@Agonum - found the proper version. The audio on this one is much better. :)
 
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Point taken @zinniabooklover, I have mostly included IPA transcriptions for my own sake. Although to be fair, I did write it out in “plain English”, too. But I will nevertheless keep the IPA stuff to a minimum henceforth. You’ll have to excuse me, I get carried away.

I would also like to stress that I am by no means an authority in lingustics. It’s always been a passion, but never my field of study.

About the technical jargon in general, I will say this: I’m only human, and I guess you can read between the lines that I am ”on the spectrum”, as they say these days. I get absorbed and fail to adapt my language to my audience. When you point it out, I can see it, and that makes me think that there is some hope. I will try my best to tone down the advanced terms, and to link the terms that slips through to an explanation of it.


zinniabooklover said:
that little bit I've bolded - can't remember the correct term for that, is that the IPA thing? - it's supposed to help you with the pronunciation, I believe. Apart from peeps actually studying linguistics I've never met anyone who understands that stuff. This is not a criticism, btw. Technical jargon exists for a reason.
Click to expand...
That is indeed IPA (International Phonetic Alphabet). The way I can justify its use in this instance, is that we are on a multilingual forum. The language we use is of course English, but when a person that is not a native English speaker stumbles upon a morpheme for the first time, chances are he won’t read it the same way a native speaker would. “Shamone” written just as so, would in Swedish be something like “sha-må-nä”.
If we can pick up a few basics, the beauty of an international phonetic alphabet becomes clear.

ʃshe
ʌother
ɔthought

Consonants are for the most part the same as the ones used in written English.

zinniabooklover said:
For example, just recently I heard an English person using the word 'epitome'. But instead of pronouncing it as 'eh - pitt - oh - mee' it was pronounced as 'eppi - tome'. For us non-linguistics types, that's usually how we try to represent pronunciation, we use phonetic spellings. […]
Click to expand...

In Swedish, that would be read as something like “äp-pi-tå-mä”, whereas the pronunciation you want to communicate (correct me if I’m wrong) is what we would write “äp-paj´toum”.
Once again, the beauty of an international means of conveying pronunciations is apparent. Oh, and I found a great American IPA chart that explains the IPA basics far better than me.

zinniabooklover said:
It was my feeble joke and by the time I've dragged myself through an explanation we will both have lost the will to live. :ROFLMAO:

[…]

So, my feeble joke was - I don't understand any of this stuff but I posted a really hot photo of Michael over on Sweat.

Look, it sounded OK in my head, lol. I cannot be held responsible for the mad gyrations of my brain. :ROFLMAO:
Click to expand...

I figured it was something along those lines, but I guess I didn’t wanna see my own faults. I will be better! 👍
 
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zinniabooklover said:
Afaik, it is true that there is a really noticeable level of politeness in the language and general demeanor of people from the southern states. But I would say politeness is a national characteristic of Americans. It's something that I've noticed over and over. The funny thing is, whenever I mention this to an American, they always express surprise - almost disbelief. I think that is linked to the negative view that much of the world has re Americans and their behaviour. I'm generalising but not that much. There is a lot of negativity out there against Americans, they are aware of it and so any praise that comes their way kind of floors them. The politeness thing - they struggle with that, imo, bc of the stereotype of Americans (when abroad, in particular) as being unsophisticated and boorish.

I have never met an American yet who wasn't super polite. Their tone of voice, their vocab choices, their way of expressing themselves.

EDIT - I think Michael's politeness is made up of several layers. There's the politeness that I honestly think is a national characteristic for (most) Americans. Then a lot of it would come from Katherine, I think. There's extra layers from the Black community and from Michael's church community. Rose Fine probably added some more into the mix. The massive amount of training they must have had from Tamla adds loads more layers. And then, for adult Michael, I think he's weaving all of that into his own preferred way of communicating.
Click to expand...

Thank you for all of this. As an American, I am always appreciative of your kindness and how much you understand us lol. You're 100% spot on in terms of how we likely internalize how the rest of the world views us. Only since becoming a Michael fan and regularly interacting with people from all over the world has that self-consciousness been put to test.

But on the subject of regional politeness, having lived in several regions including the mid-Atlantic, Southeast, and Mid-West, and traveled in every region of the United States, I can genuinely say that the entire United States (with the exception of the Northeast - North of New York) is very polite. That said, I spent 3 years living in the southeast and 4 years living in the Midwest. And while the southeast people are warm and polite, they are often more insincere. It's a bit more superficial. Whereas in the Midwest, people are warm, polite, and kind. When I moved there from the south the difference was immediately noticeable to me. I have always felt that of everywhere in the United States that I have lived and traveled (I have lived in 4/50 states, but traveled to 34/50) that the Midwest has the most genuine and kindest people. That's just my experience.
 
zinniabooklover said:
Something else I've been thinking about again, just recently, is the way Michael oten referred to Rod Temperton as German. Rod was English. Born in Cleethorpes, went to school in Market Rasen, his first job was gutting fish in Grimsby. It doesn't get much more Lincolnshire than that. He did move to Germany to work with the guys who became Heatwave (think I've got that right). But Rod never lost his English accent. So it's intriguing to me, why Michael did that. He had German friends and played lots of concerts in Germany so I'm assuming he was used to the sound of English being spoken with a German accent.
Click to expand...
Never heard of this. And you say he did it often? I know Bruce Swedien always was ‘(the) Swede’ or ‘Sven’, but never knew Rod was ‘the German’! And as you say, Michael would’ve known he wasn’t actually German. So, what could be the explanation here? It reeks of internal joke from where I’m standing. Would appreciate some background.
 
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