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Invincible was not only better than Off the Wall, but well deserving of it's "Album of the Decade" award, people need to acknowledge how GREAT it was

PurpleThriller said:
Well,yeah,to an extent or another.
But,having listened to the said writers' demo as well,I can't help but feel that the song was,at least,80%
But that is not the case for "Whatever Happens",actually (nor for most of the other Invincible tracks really,if you think about it..for example "Butterflies"). In that era he would simply cover the tracks as they were written,put his name on it and suggest that he was somehow involved in any part of the creative process..while that may have been impressively far from the actual truth..
(I'd still say that "Heaven Can Wait" is an exception to this though,as he at least inserted some of his signature screams/ad-libs at the very end of it,but still)
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That's not true. He completely changed Whatvere Happens song. Listen to demo, it sounds different. Yes, vocally he just sang what he had to sang. But musically he made it much much better. Also, let's not forget, that 60% of songs were co-writen by him. First 3 bangers are pure Michael Jackson, even so he didn't write it all alone. We can hear his beatboxing in every song. As was stated few times ago, Michael made structure for songs and Jerkins just brought him new sounds. Michael Jackson was really into that album. Because it was really exciting project for him
Michael didn't write Tabloid Junkie all alone, but it was his song, lol. Just like most songs from Invincible album
 
Richard76 said:
That's not true. He completely changed Whatvere Happens song. Listen to demo, it sounds different. Yes, vocally he just sang what he had to sang. But musically he made it much much better. Also, let's not forget, that 60% of songs were co-writen by him. First 3 bangers are pure Michael Jackson, even so he didn't write it all alone. We can hear his beatboxing in every song. As was stated few times ago, Michael made structure for songs and Jerkins just brought him new sounds. Michael Jackson was really into that album. Because it was really exciting project for him
Michael didn't write Tabloid Junkie all alone, but it was his song, lol. Just like most songs from Invincible album
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Hm,you may indeed have a point when it comes to the (3) opening tracks of the "Invincible" record (and when it comes to History's "Tabloid Junkie",nonetheless),but how did he contribute musically to "Whatever Happens",though (to get back to it)? What's there in "Whatever Happens" that is directly coming from him,except the vocals themselves? (that would be directly coming from him and not from Teddy Riley's musical touch,I've meant?) What do you think?
(Rather weird questions I know,but I am just curious)
 
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PurpleThriller said:
Hm,you may indeed have a point when it comes to the (3) opening tracks of the "Invincible" record (and when it comes to History's "Tabloid Junkie",nonetheless),but how did he contribute musically to "Whatever Happens" though (to get back to it)? What's there in "Whatever Happens" that is directly coming from him,except the vocals themselves?
(Rather weird questions I know,but I am just curious)
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they sound different, demo sounds like it was made in... India? While Michael's version sounds in classical american style
 
Richard76 said:
they sound different, demo sounds like it was made in... India? While Michael's version sounds in classical american style
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Indeed,but how do we know that it was Michael who brought all these changes to the song's instrumental (at least) and not actually Teddy Riley/his other colaborators for this song and for the "Invincible" album?
How could we be sure that it's all him?
 
PurpleThriller said:
Indeed,but how do we know that it was Michael who brought all this changes to the song's instrumental (at least) and not actually Teddy Riley/his other colaborators for this song and for the "Invincible" album?
How could we be sure that it's all him?
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Does it matter? I mean, Michael and Teddy were best friends. They felt each others needs. Teddy was kinda Michael's hands. So, I don't see any reason to doubt about authenticity of this song
 
PurpleThriller said:
Indeed,but how do we know that it was Michael who brought all these changes to the song's instrumental (at least) and not actually Teddy Riley/his other colaborators for this song and for the "Invincible" album?
How could we be sure that it's all him?
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MJ did not write a word of this song. Making a song "your own" does not deserve a writing credit. He had no actual input into the writing of this song. Production, possibly. He may have suggested changes. But Jerkins and MJ got writing credits for all the songs they worked on for Invincible, when they did not write them.

How anyone could believe that MJ and Jerkins deserve a credit for this song is beyond me.
 
Richard76 said:
That's not true. He completely changed Whatvere Happens song. Listen to demo, it sounds different. Yes, vocally he just sang what he had to sang. But musically he made it much much better. Also, let's not forget, that 60% of songs were co-writen by him. First 3 bangers are pure Michael Jackson, even so he didn't write it all alone. We can hear his beatboxing in every song. As was stated few times ago, Michael made structure for songs and Jerkins just brought him new sounds. Michael Jackson was really into that album. Because it was really exciting project for him
Michael didn't write Tabloid Junkie all alone, but it was his song, lol. Just like most songs from Invincible album
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He did not write this song. Full stop. The complete song was written at the demo stage. Jerkins and MJ produced the final version.
 
Blues_Away2023 said:
Invincible is Michael's greatest album, he said so himself 😴
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Edit: I’m not answering to you specifically if it is not your opinion, but to anybody who thinks in this way, since I’ve seen that argument being thrown around now and again.

Respectfully, that’s a very bad argument. So what if Michael said it? Don’t you think he may be a bit biased, since it was his latest work at the time, and also the one he was promoting?

Artists often tend to praise their latest works, or their more misunderstood and neglected ones. Similarly to Michael, Stanley Kubrick has said that Eyes Wide Shut was his best film of all time, even though critics and the public strongly disagree. Tarantino considers Once Upon A Time In Hollywood to be his best work, again in direct contrast to the critics’ and the public’s views.

What does the artists’ preference have to do with the quality of the work? Of course one cannot be 100% objective when it comes to art, however, a majority of the people from outside who are criticizing are certainly rather to be trusted than one person, who is also the creator of the work.
 
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dethorro said:
Edit: I’m not answering to you specifically if it is not your opinion, but to anybody who thinks in this way, since I’ve seen that argument being thrown around now and again.

Respectfully, that’s a very bad argument. So what if Michael said it? Don’t you think he may be a bit biased, since it was his latest work at the time, and also the one he was promoting?

Artists often tend to praise their latest works, or their more misunderstood and neglected ones. Similarly to Michael, Stanley Kubrick has said that Eyes Wide Shut was his best film of all time, even though critics and the public strongly disagree. Tarantino considers Once Upon A Time In Hollywood to be his best work, again in direct contrast to the critics’ and the public’s views.

What does the artists’ preference have to do with the quality of the work? Of course one cannot be 100% objective when it comes to art, however, a majority of the people from outside who are criticizing are certainly rather to be trusted than one person, who is also the creator of the work.
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Hey , I see the edit 😊

Yes it's not my opinion, I've challenged this myself previously with other posters.
 
innuendo141 said:
Jackson and Riley have no right to be credited for Whatever Happens.
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Look I have a soft spot for Invincible (it being the first MJ album I bought) but let's not be ridiculous. Invincible doesn't hold a candle to Off the Wall. The best songs on Invincible are no more than throwbacks to better songs already featured in Michael's discography.
 
Thatkliqkid said:
Look I have a soft spot for Invincible (it being the first MJ album I bought) but let's not be ridiculous. Invincible doesn't hold a candle to Off the Wall. The best songs on Invincible are no more than throwbacks to better songs already featured in Michael's discography.
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Exactly how I feel , it was my first ever MJ album so It's pretty nostalgic but doesn't compare to his earlier works.
 
Thatkliqkid said:
Look I have a soft spot for Invincible (it being the first MJ album I bought) but let's not be ridiculous. Invincible doesn't hold a candle to Off the Wall. The best songs on Invincible are no more than throwbacks to better songs already featured in Michael's discography.
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I would rather say, that Invincible era brought us improved versions of his previous songs
Hollywood Tonight - Billie Jean
You Rock My World - The Way You Make Me Feel
Cry - Man In The Mirror
Blue Gangsta - Smooth Criminal
etc.
 
Richard76 said:
I would rather say, that Invincible era brought us improved versions of his previous songs
Hollywood Tonight - Billie Jean
You Rock My World - The Way You Make Me Feel
Cry - Man In The Mirror
Blue Gangsta - Smooth Criminal
etc.
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All the OG's there are better than the Invincible tracks.
 
Richard76 said:
I would rather say, that Invincible era brought us improved versions of his previous songs
Hollywood Tonight - Billie Jean
You Rock My World - The Way You Make Me Feel
Cry - Man In The Mirror
Blue Gangsta - Smooth Criminal
etc.
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it's a matter of taste, which ones are better, but the Invincible ones sound more modern
 
Richard76 said:
I would rather say, that Invincible era brought us improved versions of his previous songs
Hollywood Tonight - Billie Jean
You Rock My World - The Way You Make Me Feel
Cry - Man In The Mirror
Blue Gangsta - Smooth Criminal
etc.
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"Improved versions of previous songs"
"Cry - Man In The Mirror"

Lol.


Or to quote yourself:

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Hot_Street said:
it's a matter of taste, which ones are better, but the Invincible ones sound more modern
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Plus the impact the songs had in the world, chart position and if those songs are still regularly heard today.

All those older tracks dickie mentioned are legendary hit records that are known worldwide and loved.

Obviously songs released in 2001 are gonna sound more modern compared to those released in 1982 or 1987 the difference though is that those songs are timeless regardless of their age.
 
Late to the conversation, but MJ should not be credited for writing “Whatever Happens.” He contributed nothing to the song musically or lyrically. All of the differences people have highlighted between the demo and the final piece concern production and arrangement, both of which he is credited for. He didn’t contribute to the core lyrics or melodies. Not to mention that one of the co-writers stated in an interview that crediting MJ and Teddy was a requirement for the song’s release. If he co-wrote the instrumental intro, he should’ve taken what he gave to Marty Paich on “Heal the World,” which is a “prelude by” credit.

I love MJ immensely, but he’s been taking undue credit and screwing people out of songwriting royalties since the 1970s. “Whatever Happens” is one of several instances of him doing so.
 
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