What was Michael’s actual health and mindset before he passed away?

This is my first post but I've been an MJ fan since the 80s. I know how passionate his fans are so I'm not here to upset anyone but a lot of this discussion falls in line with something I've been thinking about lately and I wanted to see if anyone had any thoughts/opinions. I personally know about mental health struggles and I've lost a couple of wonderful, good, amazing people to the disease of addiction so none of this is a judgement against Michael Jackson. If anything, it shows he was human, something I believe he struggled so hard to be seen as.

I agree that from 2000 on he seemed to be (for the most part) out of it. My personal belief is that even if This Is It never happened, his passing was still a matter of time; he wasn't going to make it to old age.

Given that by 2000 the 1st set of allegations were several years in the past and the 2nd set were several years in the future, any thoughts on what happened during this time frame that began this downward spiral? The Munich Bridge accident? A natural progression of fame/substance abuse? He was a new father, he was working on a new album - seems like things should have been going better for him at this time.

Anyone have any thoughts?
I completely agree with your assessment, even if it’s hard to read. I believe Michael was really struggling with drug addiction post-2000, and that’s evident from his public appearances, his professional decisions, and his wider behavioural patterns.

It’s difficult to say why his drug use might have escalated when he’d appeared so well throughout the HIStory era, which one could imagine being a time of comparatively higher stress, in the direct aftermath of the 1993 allegations. Personally, I wonder if it was a combination of factors - his history of drug abuse and the resultant risk of relapse, his ongoing mental health struggles, his 1999 accident in Munich, and, increasingly, his being surrounded by exploitative people with selfish motivations - Arnold Klein, for example.

It’s just so sad. During the 2000s, you can still see the brilliance, the kindness, and the magic, but Michael often seemed lost, distracted even. He urgently needed help from real friends, but ultimately Conrad Murray and propofol got to him first.
 
I think his health and mental state was yo yo-ing a bit more in the last decade. His daily form varied like that of others with autoimmune conditions like lupus and vitiligo, with many contributing factors, not least the insomnia during stressful times.

Another factor that I don't see many talk about, is that he mentioned in a past interview or other that he always ate little, and that when he couldn't control anything else in his life, he stopped eating. Such emotional reactions from his childhood may have resurfaced...

I agree he seemed more sedated in the "Invincible period", but in several later appearances very cogent and mentally present. Japan 2006+2007 seems great. Likewise the 2007 Ebony interview. He seems totally himself, strong presence and outgoing during the audio clip released, link here.
My understanding is many have said 2008 was a good year, perhaps the best in the 00s health wise and in motivation.
 
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Zamiast powtarzających się bzdur z tabloidów. Przeczytaj książkę jego brata. Napisał wprost, że udawał chorego, taki był plan, tylko że sprawa go przytłoczyła, zachorował na depresję. Jednak wyzdrowiał. Co do sekcji zwłok, raportu koronera, mam pytanie do tych, którzy przeczytali go w całości. Czy po oparzeniu są jakieś implanty czaszki? To wtedy Michael uzależnił się od środka przeciwbólowego Demerol. Co do propofolu, to chodził drogą HIstory, ale zawsze podłączony do maszyn monitorujących i tam, gdzie było dwóch lekarzy.
 
Myślę, że jego zdrowie i stan psychiczny były trochę bardziej zmienne w ciągu ostatniej dekady. Jego codzienna forma była zmienna, podobnie jak u wielu osób z chorobami autoimmunologicznymi, takimi jak toczeń i bielactwo, i coraz częściej miał wiele czynników przyczyniających się do tego, nie najmniej bezsenność w stresujących czasach.

Innym czynnikiem, o którym nie słyszałem zbyt wiele, jest fakt, że w jednym z wywiadów wspomniał, że zawsze jadał mało, a gdy nie był w stanie kontrolować niczego innego w swoim życiu, przestawał jeść.

Zgadzam się, że wydawał się otępiały w okresie „Invincible”, ale w kilku późniejszych wystąpieniach wydawał się bardzo przekonujący i w porządku, mentalnie obecny. Japonia 2007 wydaje się świetna. Podobnie wywiad Ebony z 2007. Wydaje się być sobą, silna obecność i otwartość podczas wydanego klipu audio, link tutaj .
Z tego co zrozumiałem, wielu stwierdziło, że rok 2008 był dobrym rokiem, być może najlepszym w latach dwutysięcznych pod względem zdrowia i motywacji.
 
Myślę, że jego zdrowie i stan psychiczny były trochę bardziej zmienne w ciągu ostatniej dekady. Jego codzienna forma była zmienna, podobnie jak u wielu osób z chorobami autoimmunologicznymi, takimi jak toczeń i bielactwo, i coraz częściej miał wiele czynników przyczyniających się do tego, nie najmniej bezsenność w stresujących czasach.

Innym czynnikiem, o którym nie słyszałem zbyt wiele, jest fakt, że w jednym z wywiadów wspomniał, że zawsze jadał mało, a gdy nie był w stanie kontrolować niczego innego w swoim życiu, przestawał jeść.

Zgadzam się, że wydawał się otępiały w okresie „Invincible”, ale w kilku późniejszych wystąpieniach wydawał się bardzo przekonujący i w porządku, mentalnie obecny. Japonia 2006+2007 wydaje się świetna. Podobnie wywiad Ebony z 2007. Wydaje się być sobą, silna obecność i otwartość podczas wydanego klipu audio, link tutaj .
Z tego co zrozumiałem, wielu stwierdziło, że rok 2008 był dobrym rokiem, być może najlepszym w latach dwutysięcznych pod względem zdrowia i motywacji.
W 2001 roku znowu zaczął brać Demerol, dlatego był taki nieobecny i dziwny, także na koncercie w Nowym Jorku. Na szczęście udało mu się znów pokonać nałóg i wrócić „do siebie”. Podczas procesu dobijały go finanse i depresja. Jednak wyszedł z tego. Podziwiam go, przeszedł tak wiele i brnął dalej. Człowiek z żelaza. Wielu na jego miejscu już dawno popełniłoby samobójstwo. Według niego jego siłą napędową podczas procesu i później były jego dzieci. To one podtrzymywały go przy życiu. Wiem coś o depresji, bo sama na nią cierpię i gdyby nie mój syn, już by mnie nie było.
 
The poster said "probably" and "I believe" so I think it's pretty clear they are stating their opinion not fact. However, I'm interested to hear which points you think are exaggerated?
He was fighting a bunch of demons all his life and I believe he suffered more the older he got. He was abused as a child by both! of his parents. His siblings only wanted his money, he couldn't find the love of his life, he hated his appearance and he probably knew plastic surgery made it worse and worse. The world talked badly about him, he didn't have real friends, success was fading as was his health. He probably had extreme constant fears of losing everything (including his dancing and singing skills and his children). And he was an addict. Of course it went downhill pretty fast.
  • He was abused as a child by both! of his parents - did I miss something?
  • His siblings only wanted his money - again: did I miss something?
  • he couldn't find the love of his life - "love of his life" ...he had relationships, that's all we know. Love of your life is a thing that movies make you believe, there is no such thing. Just peolpe you can have a relationship with or not. Some stay together for some time, some forever, because they decide to and they work for it, love has to develop over years and years. And: that shouldn't make your life worth living or cause mental problems if you don't have a partner
  • he hated his appearance and he probably knew plastic surgery made it worse and worse - first of all: "hate" is a strong word, I would use "he struggeled with his appearance". Second: Do you know how he felt about the surgeries? Also I gotta say I don't see that it has gotten "worse and worse", but maybe that's just me...don't understand why this is such a big topic all the time
  • he didn't have real friends - what about Liz Taylor? Chris Tucker? Maybe also people noone of us know because it was his private business?
  • And he was an addict - again: did I miss something? As far as I know, he took medication, prescribed by doctors because he had lupus and vitiligo. Medication can cause side-effects. But I didn't read any autopsy stuff etc. and I don't want to, so maybe there is sth I don't know
And I agree, that sometimes I wonder how he could live this life for so "long" because I can't even imagine what he went through. BUT I also believe he was very resiliant and so again...you can't judge how certain circumstances influence someones life and if it will go "downhill" or not. Psychology has many factors you have to evaluate.

Also, from 2000 on there were times he looked very good and healthy, so my guess is, he was mentally well there, too. So who knows...we all can just assume things. And I think the wording of the post from @djlukesw was very...harsh, that's why I stepped in. But I am also very sensible about things like these, so... that's a factor to consider.
 
I think his health and mental state was yo yo-ing a bit more in the last decade. His daily form varied as does that of many people with autoimmune conditions like lupus and vitiligo, and he increasingly had many contributing factors, not least his insomnia during stressful times.

Another factor that I don't see many talk about, is the fact that he mentioned in a past interview or other that he always ate little, and that when he couldn't control anything else in his life, he stopped eating.

I agree he seemed sedated in the "Invincible period", but in several later appearances seemed very cogent and fine, mentally present. Japan 2006+2007 seems great. Likewise the 2007 Ebony interview. He seems totally himself, strong presence and outgoing during the audio clip released, link here.
My understanding is many have said 2008 was a good year, perhaps the best in the 00s health wise and in motivation.
THIS, thank you.
 
  • He was abused as a child by both! of his parents - did I miss something?
  • His siblings only wanted his money - again: did I miss something?
  • he couldn't find the love of his life - "love of his life" ...he had relationships, that's all we know. Love of your life is a thing that movies make you believe, there is no such thing. Just peolpe you can have a relationship with or not. Some stay together for some time, some forever, because they decide to and they work for it, love has to develop over years and years. And: that shouldn't make your life worth living or cause mental problems if you don't have a partner
  • he hated his appearance and he probably knew plastic surgery made it worse and worse - first of all: "hate" is a strong word, I would use "he struggeled with his appearance". Second: Do you know how he felt about the surgeries? Also I gotta say I don't see that it has gotten "worse and worse", but maybe that's just me...don't understand why this is such a big topic all the time
  • he didn't have real friends - what about Liz Taylor? Chris Tucker? Maybe also people noone of us know because it was his private business?
  • And he was an addict - again: did I miss something? As far as I know, he took medication, prescribed by doctors because he had lupus and vitiligo. Medication can cause side-effects. But I didn't read any autopsy stuff etc. and I don't want to, so maybe there is sth I don't know
And I agree, that sometimes I wonder how he could live this life for so "long" because I can't even imagine what he went through. BUT I also believe he was very resiliant and so again...you can't judge how certain circumstances influence someones life and if it will go "downhill" or not. Psychology has many factors you have to evaluate.

Also, from 2000 on there were times he looked very good and healthy, so my guess is, he was mentally well there, too. So who knows...we all can just assume things. And I think the wording of the post from @djlukesw was very...harsh, that's why I stepped in. But I am also very sensible about things like these, so... that's a factor to consider.
I think you may be arguing semantics more than substance. Everything is a matter of interpretation, right? And we don't know whose interpretation is correct so we are all just posting our thoughts/opinions.

For example, Michael viewed how his father treated him in his childhood as abuse (which, for the record, I wholeheartedly agree with). However, his brothers say they were never abused. So, was he abused by no parents, 1 parent, or 2 parents? It all depends on how you view it and who you ask.

Did his siblings only want money? Probably not but did they, at times, view him as an ATM machine? Michael certainly thought so and I think the issues that would cause in their relationships is pretty clear.

As far as the love of his life goes, as you said, that's a very individual thing. Some people can live happily without it, while others feel very lonely and depressed. My opinion is that it's something he wanted in his life but never found, for a whole host of reasons, and if that upset him, it's only because he was human.

When it comes to his plastic surgery, will changing hate to strongly disliked work better? I can't see how someone who did what he did was happy with his looks or that he had the normal hangups we all have about our appearance but he was struggling to find a way to be happy when he looked in the mirror and I don't judge him for that. It breaks my heart, but never any judgement.

I think he struggled with feeling as though he couldn't trust the people in his life so friendship would be hard for him but I agree, I don't think it was impossible, and I think he had a few people he could truly consider friends throughout the course of his life.

Now, we've come to the medication topic. I know I must tread lightly about this situation on here. So that is what I will try to do. It is my opinion, that believing he was only taking medication for lupus and vitiligo is ignoring the last 25 years of his life. It is well known and well documented that he took painkillers as well. And he struggled with taking that medication properly at times. Not all the time but there are several, well documented periods in his life where it was an issue. That doesn't make him a bad person or a weak person. Again, it made him human. I believe the autopsy showed there were at least 5 other medications in his system, aside from Propofal. And those medications had nothing to do with lupus or vitiligo. And, if we are thinking with our heads and not our hearts, it's hard to believe Michael was paying Conrad Murray $150,000 a month just to make sure he was properly taking his lupus and vitiligo medicine.

He had good periods in the 2000s and bad periods. He himself said, when he admitted to be on painkillers for a good portion of 2003, that he wasn't out of it all the time. It's an up and down thing.

Again, just my interpretation of what I have read/seen/heard. I have no inside information and I don't pretend to. As I said before, all these things made Michael human and, I believe, that's all he really wanted in life.
 
I think you may be arguing semantics more than substance. Everything is a matter of interpretation, right? And we don't know whose interpretation is correct so we are all just posting our thoughts/opinions.

For example, Michael viewed how his father treated him in his childhood as abuse (which, for the record, I wholeheartedly agree with). However, his brothers say they were never abused. So, was he abused by no parents, 1 parent, or 2 parents? It all depends on how you view it and who you ask.

Did his siblings only want money? Probably not but did they, at times, view him as an ATM machine? Michael certainly thought so and I think the issues that would cause in their relationships is pretty clear.

As far as the love of his life goes, as you said, that's a very individual thing. Some people can live happily without it, while others feel very lonely and depressed. My opinion is that it's something he wanted in his life but never found, for a whole host of reasons, and if that upset him, it's only because he was human.

When it comes to his plastic surgery, will changing hate to strongly disliked work better? I can't see how someone who did what he did was happy with his looks or that he had the normal hangups we all have about our appearance but he was struggling to find a way to be happy when he looked in the mirror and I don't judge him for that. It breaks my heart, but never any judgement.

I think he struggled with feeling as though he couldn't trust the people in his life so friendship would be hard for him but I agree, I don't think it was impossible, and I think he had a few people he could truly consider friends throughout the course of his life.

Now, we've come to the medication topic. I know I must tread lightly about this situation on here. So that is what I will try to do. It is my opinion, that believing he was only taking medication for lupus and vitiligo is ignoring the last 25 years of his life. It is well known and well documented that he took painkillers as well. And he struggled with taking that medication properly at times. Not all the time but there are several, well documented periods in his life where it was an issue. That doesn't make him a bad person or a weak person. Again, it made him human. I believe the autopsy showed there were at least 5 other medications in his system, aside from Propofal. And those medications had nothing to do with lupus or vitiligo. And, if we are thinking with our heads and not our hearts, it's hard to believe Michael was paying Conrad Murray $150,000 a month just to make sure he was properly taking his lupus and vitiligo medicine.

He had good periods in the 2000s and bad periods. He himself said, when he admitted to be on painkillers for a good portion of 2003, that he wasn't out of it all the time. It's an up and down thing.

Again, just my interpretation of what I have read/seen/heard. I have no inside information and I don't pretend to. As I said before, all these things made Michael human and, I believe, that's all he really wanted in life.
I can agree with your answer, I think I just wanted to point out that one should choose his words wisely and that noone can really judge what was going on because we only know fragments of a really big picture.
 
If you are asking about his condition in the last few days, the paramedic testimony in court in Murray's case is very telling:

“He was very pale and underweight. I thought perhaps this was a hospice patient. He looked like someone who was at the end stage of a long disease process. The patient appeared to be chronically ill.” - Richard Senneff, paramedic.

I also find disturbing that someone who was relatively healthy by the autopsy was maintained frequently under heavy medication and his room was basically turned into a hospital room. It's not normal at all to have oxygen tank and IV stands in your room all the time, specially since Murray says he wasn't being treated for any specific condition then.

I personally don't think he had health for 50 concerts. I'm not even sure if he could do the the original amount. In the end, even without all the conditions, Michael was 50 years old and that's a cruel landmark for most dancers anyway, your body is simply not the same anymore, and unfortunately few are James Brown.

But I think he really wanted to be back on stage too, specially without the burden of touring around which would be tiresome and take him away of his kids. I just think he didn't believe people really cared about his music anymore, after all the circus of 2005.
 
If you are asking about his condition in the last few days, the paramedic testimony in court in Murray's case is very telling:

“He was very pale and underweight. I thought perhaps this was a hospice patient. He looked like someone who was at the end stage of a long disease process. The patient appeared to be chronically ill.” - Richard Senneff, paramedic.

I also find disturbing that someone who was relatively healthy by the autopsy was maintained frequently under heavy medication and his room was basically turned into a hospital room. It's not normal at all to have oxygen tank and IV stands in your room all the time, specially since Murray says he wasn't being treated for any specific condition then.

I personally don't think he had health for 50 concerts. I'm not even sure if he could do the the original amount. In the end, even without all the conditions, Michael was 50 years old and that's a cruel landmark for most dancers anyway, your body is simply not the same anymore, and unfortunately few are James Brown.

But I think he really wanted to be back on stage too, specially without the burden of touring around which would be tiresome and take him away of his kids. I just think he didn't believe people really cared about his music anymore, after all the circus of 2005.
You're right. It really makes you think what the hell was going on. I hadn't heard that quote from the paramedic before but that's horrible. How can someone, per the autopsy, appear pretty healthy on the inside but be in such horrible shape on the outside?

He was too thin & he was struggling so much during This Is It rehearsals that Kenny Ortega tried to reach out to AEG and Conrad Murray to get him help. As you said, his room was filled with oxygen tanks, IV stands, catheters, a bottle of bloody urine, an abundance of medication, etc.

It's crazy to me that the autopsy report said what it said given what appeared to be going on. Makes you wonder...
 
You're right. It really makes you think what the hell was going on. I hadn't heard that quote from the paramedic before but that's horrible. How can someone, per the autopsy, appear pretty healthy on the inside but be in such horrible shape on the outside?

He was too thin & he was struggling so much during This Is It rehearsals that Kenny Ortega tried to reach out to AEG and Conrad Murray to get him help. As you said, his room was filled with oxygen tanks, IV stands, catheters, a bottle of bloody urine, an abundance of medication, etc.

It's crazy to me that the autopsy report said what it said given what appeared to be going on. Makes you wonder...

What I find disturbing is that some of the MJ community still to this day believe that this was a perfectly normal set up and that Murray was hired to kill Michael.

No healthy man about to embark on a huge concert residency should have a bedroom that resembles a hospital ward and be using propofol as a sleep aid. It’s frightening how some think this was acceptable.

Murray was hired to keep Michael alive hence why he received such a high fee. He failed miserably in his task and was responsible for neglecting MJ resulting in his death.

What saddens me the most is that even without Murray, something similar would have happened to MJ and he was destined to die young.
 
What I find disturbing is that some of the MJ community still to this day believe that this was a perfectly normal set up and that Murray was hired to kill Michael.

No healthy man about to embark on a huge concert residency should have a bedroom that resembles a hospital ward and be using propofol as a sleep aid. It’s frightening how some think this was acceptable.

Murray was hired to keep Michael alive hence why he received such a high fee. He failed miserably in his task and was responsible for neglecting MJ resulting in his death.

What saddens me the most is that even without Murray, something similar would have happened to MJ and he was destined to die young.
I certainly hope that even though you quoted me, you weren't speaking to me. At no point have I ever said what was going on was acceptable and at no point did I say there was some grand conspiracy/murder that took place.
 
I certainly hope that even though you quoted me, you weren't speaking to me. At no point have I ever said what was going on was acceptable and at no point did I say there was some grand conspiracy/murder that took place.
I did quote you and was speaking to you directly but it was in agreement with your comments 🙂

You speak the truth!
 
As one of the operators of jackson.ch, I can well remember the lawsuits against Dr. Conrad Murray and the Jacksons against AEG Live, as we reported on our website in relative detail.

In summary, I was left with the impression that Michael was mentally torn. At one time he was full of drive, creativity and euphoria, then again he was a pile of misery and demotivated.

Let's not forget that AEG Live had been working towards the concerts for years and it was only when Michael had no other option for financial reasons that he agreed to give concerts. Before that, he only ever wanted to make movies in AEG meetings. I don't think he was able to realize his film plans, that took its toll on him. Since the end of the 1990s, he has repeatedly announced in interviews that he would enter the film business.

I think his children were the only thing that really gave him a foothold in life in the last few years. And in good moments, he probably finally realized that This is It was his chance to show the world once again that he was a living legend.
I also remembered one of Cherilyn Lee's account (and I almost think others had also described the incident), Michael told her how one half of his body felt hot and the other cold. At least there were days when they sent Michael back home out of fear of his desolate condition.

Also the stories from Michael's children that Michael cried after a meeting with AEG people. And of course that the AEG bosses allegedly didn't remember anything when they met with Dr. Conrad Murray at Michael's home and - according to the children and possibly other witnesses - it got loud, so they had argued. I don't think Michael was there. But apparently it was a serious meeting that they probably remember very well.

I think that AEG Live deliberately risked Michael's death. And Michael, in turn, knew that his life was at stake.
 
I did quote you and was speaking to you directly but it was in agreement with your comments 🙂

You speak the truth!
Lol! My bad 🤭 I thought you were saying that I was buying into the crazy conspiracy theories. I was like, hell no 😂 I apologize!

You're right. It's crazy. No one can look at what went on and think it was normal or ok. And, let's be real, Sony didn't kill Michael for his catalog and Dr. Murray wasn't hired as the fall guy for some grand conspiracy.
 
As one of the operators of jackson.ch, I can well remember the lawsuits against Dr. Conrad Murray and the Jacksons against AEG Live, as we reported on our website in relative detail.

In summary, I was left with the impression that Michael was mentally torn. At one time he was full of drive, creativity and euphoria, then again he was a pile of misery and demotivated.

Let's not forget that AEG Live had been working towards the concerts for years and it was only when Michael had no other option for financial reasons that he agreed to give concerts. Before that, he only ever wanted to make movies in AEG meetings. I don't think he was able to realize his film plans, that took its toll on him. Since the end of the 1990s, he has repeatedly announced in interviews that he would enter the film business.

I think his children were the only thing that really gave him a foothold in life in the last few years. And in good moments, he probably finally realized that This is It was his chance to show the world once again that he was a living legend.
I also remembered one of Cherilyn Lee's account (and I almost think others had also described the incident), Michael told her how one half of his body felt hot and the other cold. At least there were days when they sent Michael back home out of fear of his desolate condition.

Also the stories from Michael's children that Michael cried after a meeting with AEG people. And of course that the AEG bosses allegedly didn't remember anything when they met with Dr. Conrad Murray at Michael's home and - according to the children and possibly other witnesses - it got loud, so they had argued. I don't think Michael was there. But apparently it was a serious meeting that they probably remember very well.

I think that AEG Live deliberately risked Michael's death. And Michael, in turn, knew that his life was at stake.
Thank you for this additional insight. It's all just so very sad.
 
I can only share my thoughts and observations since I, just like none of us, can say for sure what was really going on in his life. My short version is: He was too trusting and had the wrong people around him. At the same time…he also created an environment for leeches and I’m not sure he would take no for an answer, so there is some responsibility resting on him as well. But mostly I see him as a victim of gold diggers, sycophants, leeches, vampires (as Lisa Marie would call them)…

I have been a fan since 1987 and have followed everuthing MJ has been doing since then. Watched every interview I could get my hands on and I also saw him live, close up, several times during the years. In 1992, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1999, 2002 and 2009. I hung out at his hotels and saw how he interacted with fans, got to go to an amusement park with him, etc.

When I saw Michael in London in 2009, my observation was that he was TOTALLY EXCITED! OVERJOYED! People say he was high or drunk on stage during the press conference, I disagree. He just seemed GIDDY! As in ”I’m SO EXCITED, I can’t contain myself!!!!” I was in the front rows and saw him well. It was the same when he was at the hotel window with his children after the press conference. He just seemed HAPPY and EXCITED. Also when he left his hotel to go see the musical Oliver, he came to greet the fans and seemed to enjoy being there. So having seen his PURE JOY, I do genuinly think that he was excited about the shows. People also talk about the 50 shows like he would’ve needed to do 50 shows back to back to back. He had about 2-3 shows per week, with a MONTHS break in between. He definitely would’ve been able to do it both physically and mentally.

BUT….I do agree that he was INCREDIABLY thin when I saw him in London. Thinner than I had ever seen him. Also, the vibe at the hotel, especially before the press conference was different, which did concern me at the time because it felt like someone was trying to keep Michael separated from the fans. He also had hardly any staff with him. He used to ALWAYS travel with a minimum of two bodyguards of his own. In London he only had Alberto with him. The rest were hired help from London who left in the evening. I also don’t know if he had a nanny or governess or a PA with him, I didn’t see one. He also used to ALWAYS have his own camera man with him, filming everything where ever he went. He had Karen Faye and Michael Bush usually always with him if he travelled for any kind of public appearance. They weren’t there. I’m guessing the trial cost him so much, not only financially, but also due to loss of income, that he had to try to save money and cut his staff into a minimum. Micharl used to ALWAYS send his bodyguard down to pick up presents for him and to bring fans into his hotel room to meet him. There was none of that in London. So because of that, he did seem more distant.

I also agree that after 2000 he seems ”different” at times. I don’t know if it was due to being heavily medicated, high, or if it was due to too much botox and that’s why he seemed different (remember the stiff upper lip in the beginning of 2000, when his upper lip didn’t seem to move at all?)…but I did notice a difference. Especially around 2000-2003. Which is weird because it pretty much was before the trial. It could’ve been because of using pain meds for the back pain or could’ve been things ending with Lisa Marie that hit him hard (remember that they still dated and saw each other and tried again until late 1998, despite their divorce…It seemed to have a similar effect on Lisa Marie…it seemed her life went downhill after their final break up too and seemed like she never really recovered from it either…). Or could’ve been both together…back pain (physical pain) mixed with trying to get over Lisa (mental pain). Mental pain can make physical pain feel stronger, so maybe he was trying to numb both sources of pain: mental and physical. He was also a single dad trying to raise 2-3 kids by himself, which surely, even though his children definitely made him happy, definitely robbed him of some sleep and energy too. He wasalso EXTREMELY hard on himself and a perfectionist, so I think he also struggled with the transition from vinyl and CDs to digital because it robbed him of album sales, which meant less income and less copies sold. While selling over 10 MILLION copies is a number a lot of artists can only DREAM of and will never achieve during their whole career…people called it a ”flop” in MJ standards, even though there wasn’t much he could’ve done because of the whole album leaking before it was even released. But I’m sure it added to the pressure. Then there was the problems with Sony which added more pressure and it was CLEAR that he thought someone is going to kill him diring 2002 because he wore a bullet proof vest under his clothes.,He clearly was under a lot of pressure.

Another factor was having all the wrong people around him. Bad business advice and bad business deals. He most likely kept spending as he had always done, even though his income became less. I mean, he did own the Sony/ATV catalogue that was worth a billion and was able to get loans with it. But I’m sure it all added to the pressure. And maybe having the catalogue made him think he can keep spending because he has billions. Who also knows what his advisers told him? Did anyone keep track and tell him? Did he listen? Was his bookkeeping accurate? Or did people keep putting money into their own pockets on the side? I read somewhere that Grace bought a luxury apartment in Vegas with MJ’s money, wothout him knowing and that was what led to her being fired. If it’s true…I have no idea, but it wouldn’t be the first rich celebrity whose money disappears into the pockets of people around rhen that they trusted.

As a nurse, I can’t really put the blame on Michael for any possible substance use problems. Especially after seeing how doctors treated him. He was a clear victim of greedy, unethical and unprofessional doctors. Yes, he probably asked or even demanded to be goven some of the meds, like Propofol for example. It’s the job of the doctor to say NO!! Patients and their parents ask us to do all kinds of things all the time. It’s our job to inform them and try to find a better solution. Michael wasn’t a doctor, so no one can put the blame on him for using certain meds the wrong way. For example, Murray (I refuse to call him a doctor!!) practically was FEEDING an addiction. He was actually CAUSING an addiction with his ”treatment”. Benzos are highly addictive, Propofol not so much. So for Murray to keep giving MJ benzos was actually what probably caused most of MJ’s physical problems and insomnia. Murray should have refused treating MJ and should’ve sent him to a specialist instead. There were all these doctors enabling the wrong use. Again….Michael was NOT a doctor. While he may have thought Propofol is great to get some sleep, the DOCTOR, had he been a professional and an ethical doctor, would’ve trued to look for the cause instead and would’ve tried to help Michael with the RIGHT treatment or would’ve sent him to see someone else who is an expert. But even all the doctors got blinded by greed and just took the money and ran, without caring at ALL about Michael. 🥲🥲🥲

But there was also things that Michael was guilty of, as we got to hear from Lisa Marie. He surrounded himself with yes-men. Anyone who disagreed or tried to talk him iut of anything most likely had to go. Lisa Marie tried…..Michael sent her away. So he hinself also was partly responsible for creating the dangerous environment. Pair that with him being too trusting and allowing random families and fans way too close….well, we know where all that lead.

On the other hand even the people he (and we all) thought je could trust betrayed him one by one or wanted something from him or tried to use him or their connection to him to get rich or they abandoned him as soon as being associated with him wasn’t beneficial to them any longer. He really could NOT trust anyone. I think Mac, Chris, Elizabeth, Emmanuel, The White family, Bill, Wayne, Dave Dave and the Schleiter family are the only ones who were his TRUE friends and never betrayed him or tried to benefit from him. But all the others…Brooke, Diana, Robsons, Safechucks, Arvizos, Cascios, etc. all pretty much betrayed him or abandoned him.

All that must’ve taken a toll on him. However, I do think that Michael looked to be doing pretty well around 2006-2009. He was EXTREMELY thin but seemed happy and content orher wise and seemed ”clear” as in not under the influence of anything during that time. I think what went wrong in 2009 was the lack of scheduling skills on ARG Live’s part. They gave Michael way too little time to create and rehearse the show, the whole ticket system was BS…..then the cancellation which caused a lot of fans to lose money…and it just pretty much went to hell in a handbasket after that. I think having the pressure from AEG to get the show done, fans being angry (I take responsibility for my own part in it because I was SO PISSED OFF about the ticket prices, bad seats where you would not have been able to see anything and then the cancellation and losing all my savings!!)….snd all that paired with bad doctors was what finally caused his death. HOWEVER……..I’m also still not completely convinced that there wasn’t some intentional foul play involved. I can’t rule a murder completely out. They used a med that would not have appeared in the toxicology report, had they not caught Murray trying to clean up and hide the meds. Remember, Murray NEVER said what he had given to MJ. So I can’t rule a murder, and Murray just being the middle man who finished the job, completely out.
 
I have been a fan since 1987 and have followed everuthing MJ has been doing since then. Watched every interview I could get my hands on and I also saw him live, close up, several times during the years. In 1992, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1999, 2002 and 2009. I hung out at his hotels and saw how he interacted with fans, got to go to an amusement park with him, etc.
um just out of curiosity do you know the book A real-life fairy tale Michael Jackson and Me..?
sorry to bother you with random thoughts 😅
 
But there was also things that Michael was guilty of, as we got to hear from Lisa Marie. He surrounded himself with yes-men. Anyone who disagreed or tried to talk him iut of anything most likely had to go. Lisa Marie tried…..Michael sent her away. So he hinself also was partly responsible for creating the dangerous environment. Pair that with him being too trusting and allowing random families and fans way too close….well, we know where all that lead.
Yes, that's something Smokey Robinson also commented in an interview with djvlad. Unfortunately, most people would do the same I think. Of course, trusting people and being betrayed is not the fault of who was betrayed, but unfortunately it happened too many times with Michael.

I personally do not believe in intentional murder, but it was heavy medical malpractice, with knowledge and negligence of many people about the situation.
 
There was a lot going on those last few months. A lot right in front of us. Things i wont repeat. I remember the emergency private pms/emails amongst us mods and a few others that saw and had some time with michael. I remember the letters written and tossed over the gate at holmby hills. It was heartbreaking.
 
I’m also still not completely convinced that there wasn’t some intentional foul play involved. I can’t rule a murder completely out. They used a med that would not have appeared in the toxicology report, had they not caught Murray trying to clean up and hide the meds. Remember, Murray NEVER said what he had given to MJ. So I can’t rule a murder, and Murray just being the middle man who finished the job, completely out.
Note that there are many people who believe that Michael Jackson took his own life.

Lawyer Edward Chernoff also firmly believed that (he based his belief mainly on the fact that the singer was so anguished about his deteriorating finances in his final days).

Also, certain medical experts (such as, Dr. Steven Shafer, Professor of Anaesthesiology who testified during Dr. Conrad Murray's 2011 trial) cannot rule the possibility of committing suicide out.
 
Note that there are many people who believe that Michael Jackson took his own life.

Lawyer Edward Chernoff also firmly believed that (he based his belief mainly on the fact that the singer was so anguished about his deteriorating finances in his final days).

Also, certain medical experts (such as, Dr. Steven Shafer, Professor of Anaesthesiology who testified during Dr. Conrad Murray's 2011 trial) cannot rule the possibility of committing suicide out.
That's Murray's lawyer.
People apparently believe anything about Michael Jackson.
 
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There is one stark fact in all this. Conrad Murray killed Michael and he went to jail for it.
I watched the trial it made very clear that Conrad Murray killed Michael with propofol.
 
Note that there are many people who believe that Michael Jackson took his own life.

Lawyer Edward Chernoff also firmly believed that (he based his belief mainly on the fact that the singer was so anguished about his deteriorating finances in his final days).

Also, certain medical experts (such as, Dr. Steven Shafer, Professor of Anaesthesiology who testified during Dr. Conrad Murray's 2011 trial) cannot rule the possibility of committing suicide out.
Did we watch the same trial because he definitely ruled out suicide and said Michael wouldn’t have been able to give himself such an amount of Propofol by himself, also the way the i.v. was set up made it impossible. I’m a nurse and have worked as an anesthesia nurse so I also know it’s impossible. You would be out before you could inject a whole syringe. And the Propofol amounts Murray claimed he gave Michael were ridicilous and not believable. Also, the theory that MJ was knocked out with Propofol and then ”woke up and injected himself” is BS. People who wake up from Propofol don’t just all of the sudden sit up all clear and fully alert. So again, that whole theory is BS and Shafer for a fact didn’t say ”he can’t rule a suicide out”. He absolutely could rule a suicide out. Anyone who has experience with Propofol could. Remember the amounts of Propofol in his blood. Not possible to give yourself by yourself. Besides Murray was there. Also, a cardiologist who does NOT KNOW how to do effective CPR nor doesn’t know how to call help is…..well, don’t even have words for it. It’s highly suspiscious.
 
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