What was Michael’s actual health and mindset before he passed away?

[kreen]

People say he was high or drunk on stage during the press conference, I disagree.

That point can't be denied though, as the emails that the AEG boss sent right after going to see MJ before the press conference were shown during the trial. You can't get closer to actual facts than that: written proof from a first-hand eye witness writing something he had no idea would ever be made public. He wrote in the email that MJ was "drunk" (his word -- MJ might have actually been high from drugs instead) right at the moment when he was supposed to go make the announcement. He didn't want to come out and had to be forced out.

 

[summer]

That point can't be denied though, as the emails that the AEG boss sent right after going to see MJ before the press conference were shown during the trial. You can't get closer to actual facts than that: written proof from a first-hand eye witness writing something he had no idea would ever be made public. He wrote in the email that MJ was "drunk" (his word -- MJ might have actually been high from drugs instead) right at the moment when he was supposed to go make the announcement. He didn't want to come out and had to be forced out.

Well, if that really is true though is debatable. As I said, I WAS THERE during the press conference. In the front rows. I was THERE when he came to the window that night at his hotel. I was THERE the next night when he came out and cane to greet the fans and was LITERALLY standing right in front of me. He was not drunk or high. Sure, what hapoened during the night from March 4th to 5th or that morning, no idea. I didn’t see him then. But at the press conference he just seemed happy and excited like he has seemed before when I have seen him snd he’s been happy and excited. I can’t know his blood alcohol levels or drug levels, no one can. I can just say what I SAW WITH MY OWN EYES. So we can just agree to disagree because I WAS THERE.

 

[kreen]

Well, if that really is true though is debatable. As I said, I WAS THERE during the press conference. In the front rows. I was THERE when he came to the window that night at his hotel. I was THERE the next night when he came out and cane to greet the fans and was LITERALLY standing right in front of me. He was not drunk or high. Sure, what hapoened during the night from March 4th to 5th or that morning, no idea. I didn’t see him then. But at the press conference he just seemed happy and excited like he has seemed before when I have seen him snd he’s been happy and excited. I can’t know his blood alcohol levels or drug levels, no one can. I can just say what I SAW WITH MY OWN EYES. So we can just agree to disagree because I WAS THERE.

When he did show up at the conference, unfashionably late, fans commented on how out-of-the-ordinary his behavior was. Gone was the shy, aww-shucks act he usually pulled on those occasions. Instead, he had a surprising -- for him -- over-confidence, pumping his fist into the air, exhibiting a strange, almost "gangsta" attitude throughout. Also, he didn't finish or enunciate a single complete, syntactically-correct sentence.

And that was after sobering up for a few hours from when the AEG guy sent the email. Obviously, hours later and the following day, he was no longer under the influence of whatever he had ingested in the hours before the announcement.

 

[summer]

When he did show up at the conference, unfashionably late, fans commented on how out-of-the-ordinary his behavior was. Gone was the shy, aww-shucks act he usually pulled on those occasions. Instead, he had a surprising -- for him -- over-confidence, pumping his fist into the air, exhibiting a strange, almost "gangsta" attitude throughout. Also, he didn't finish or enunciate a single complete, syntactically-correct sentence.

And that was after sobering up for a few hours from when the AEG guy sent the email. Obviously, hours later and the following day, he was no longer under the influence of whatever he had ingested in the hours before the announcement.

Were you there? Or are you just quoting some tabloid articles? Because I didn’t hear one fan who was there that day mention any of what you are claiming.

 

[AdhesiveAaron]

His health, I don't know what was going on with his health. His autopsy report says that, internally, he was pretty healthy for a 50 year old man, but externally, he looked so frail.

But, to me, his mindset was clear. He wanted TII to be the biggest and best shows he ever put on. In his slurred speech that was heard in court, he wanted the people who watched the shows to leave with blown minds and having it tattooed into their brains. He had a plan to make TII successful. He had a plan for when the shows would conclude, he would use the money to build a children's hospital. "The biggest in the world". Of course he had debts to pay and this would probably not have happened, but he had dreams to help people in need.
Although what we saw was a man who was tired and hurt from what happened years earlier. It was clear that he wanted to do these shows. He was a fighter. To me, this was the best I've seen Michael. To me, it shows that even in his lowest time, he will fight through it, and fulfill what he wanted TII to be. He always set new boundaries for himself, and this was the most difficult one he set. But, he never quit. He never cancelled the shows because he was afraid of his health or how the performances would play out. He was confident in himself. He never quit, and he died with dignity, like a true king. And that's why I respect Michael Jackson. That's why he's the king.

A lot of people don't like the TII comeback era as it was the last time we saw MJ on earth. But, I see it completely different. I see it as his highest. He would sacrifice his body, and life, to save others. When I hear or see This Is It, it is it. Every time I watch the movie, I look at the shots of him smiling and having fun, while still being hurt inside. He's smiling because he hasn't givin' up on sending the message he wants to send to help the world and its future generations.

Although I was born only two years before he died and never got to witness the hype of him alive, doing press conferences on TV, or buying a newly released studio album at a music store. But, I'm proud to say I'm an MJ fan. I respect who he was and why he was here. And, nobody is ever going to change my mind on how I feel about him. Long live the KING!

 

[kreen]

Were you there? Or are you just quoting some tabloid articles? Because I didn’t hear one fan who was there that day mention any of what you are claiming.

I was on this forum and on others, watching it live, and this is what was being discussed. You do realize the whole thing was televised live and millions of people observed MJ's behavior just as well as you did in that room, right?

 

[Mister_Jay_Tee]

I think this question will never have an objective answer and that just comes with the territory of being Michael Jackson. Everything about him was an enigma, in his life and his death as well.

 

[bluemoon7]

Note that there are many people who believe that Michael Jackson took his own life.

Lawyer Edward Chernoff also firmly believed that (he based his belief mainly on the fact that the singer was so anguished about his deteriorating finances in his final days).

Also, certain medical experts (such as, Dr. Steven Shafer, Professor of Anaesthesiology who testified during Dr. Conrad Murray's 2011 trial) cannot rule the possibility of committing suicide out.

I have never heard about this theory!

 

[Friend&Flower]

He was diagnosed with Pleurisy during the 'The Wiz' era (inflammation of the lining of his lungs).

But Michael Jackson suffered for many years also from Costochondritis (inflammation of the cartilage which connects a rib to the sternum).

Costochondritis, for example, was the cause that while he was rehearsing in the studio in 1990 (June), he felt excruciating chest pains and he had to be rushed to the hospital immediately.

Because some Michael Jackson fans want to retain a positive image of their idol.

I had costochondritis when I was very stressed in high school, it’s scary and really painful!

 

[threatened2020]

You can tell he had issues with his joints during the 'this is it' rehearsals.

He probably put so much mental pressure on himself, that type of anxiety would be enough to make anyone ill.

 

[Moviefan2k4]

Call me whatever you want, but I don't think Michael was ever mentally ill...at least, not in the sense most might assume. His general worldview was largely shaped by his father's harsh treatment of him during childhood, along with the insane pressure of being a young black performer in 1960s America. Even by the late '70s, he felt he still had to prove himself, because too many people associated him with his brothers and nothing else. His first attempt to counter that was co-starring in The Wiz, and then recording Off the Wall. When the latter only won a single Grammy Award, Michael felt extremely slighted because he'd poured so much of his heart in to it...and that fueled his determination regarding the production of Thriller.

Regarding his health in general, I think his medical problems began in 1984, after the accident on the Pepsi commercial set. His burns never healed completely, his pain remained constant, and his hair never grew back. As a result, he got hooked on painkillers, and things only grew worse from there. Some say that having any compulsive addiction makes you mentally unsound, but I disagree. We all have things we struggle with to various degrees, and Michael was no different. His insomnia was almost more legendary than his music - Katherine said she often caught him wandering Hayvenhurst at early hours in the morning. Others say he was crazy to go along with Evan Chandler's demands; while I'd agree it was unwise and reckless, you have to remember who Michael was and the kind of pressure he was under at the time. He thought that by settling with the family, the whole thing would be over and done with, never to be brought up again. Instead, he spent the last 16 years of his life trying to convince the world he was not a pedophile...and the American press was his worst public enemy in that regard. That's one reason why he never toured for the Invincible album, and the HIStory tour only included two U.S. dates, both in Hawaii instead of the mainland.

As for his drug dependencies, God only knows what caused him to become so intense with them. Folks still debate to this day whether Conrad Murray gave him the fatal injection, or if Michael did so himself. Personally, I have no idea, though I'd like to believe Michael's love for his kids prevented him from becoming suicidal. I just hope he's in Heaven with God & Jesus now, finally at peace like he always needed to be.

 

[WolfMJJ]

Call me whatever you want, but I don't think Michael was ever mentally ill...at least, not in the sense most might assume. His general worldview was largely shaped by his father's harsh treatment of him during childhood, along with the insane pressure of being a young black performer in 1960s America. Even by the late '70s, he felt he still had to prove himself, because too many people associated him with his brothers and nothing else. His first attempt to counter that was co-starring in The Wiz, and then recording Off the Wall. When the latter only won a single Grammy Award, Michael felt extremely slighted because he'd poured so much of his heart in to it...and that fueled his determination regarding the production of Thriller.

Regarding his health in general, I think his medical problems began in 1984, after the accident on the Pepsi commercial set. His burns never healed completely, his pain remained constant, and his hair never grew back. As a result, he got hooked on painkillers, and things only grew worse from there. Some say that having any compulsive addiction makes you mentally unsound, but I disagree. We all have things we struggle with to various degrees, and Michael was no different. His insomnia was almost more legendary than his music - Katherine said she often caught him wandering Hayvenhurst at early hours in the morning. Others say he was crazy to go along with Evan Chandler's demands; while I'd agree it was unwise and reckless, you have to remember who Michael was and the kind of pressure he was under at the time. He thought that by settling with the family, the whole thing would be over and done with, never to be brought up again. Instead, he spent the last 16 years of his life trying to convince the world he was not a pedophile...and the American press was his worst public enemy in that regard. That's one reason why he never toured for the Invincible album, and the HIStory tour only included two U.S. dates, both in Hawaii instead of the mainland.

As for his drug dependencies, God only knows what caused him to become so intense with them. Folks still debate to this day whether Conrad Murray gave him the fatal injection, or if Michael did so himself. Personally, I have no idea, though I'd like to believe Michael's love for his kids prevented him from becoming suicidal. I just hope he's in Heaven with God & Jesus now, finally at peace like he always needed to be.

Michael Jackson would never take his own life. All true fans know this. Not even a debate.

 

[LiveItOffTheWall]

Call me whatever you want, but I don't think Michael was ever mentally ill...at least, not in the sense most might assume. His general worldview was largely shaped by his father's harsh treatment of him during childhood, along with the insane pressure of being a young black performer in 1960s America. Even by the late '70s, he felt he still had to prove himself, because too many people associated him with his brothers and nothing else. His first attempt to counter that was co-starring in The Wiz, and then recording Off the Wall. When the latter only won a single Grammy Award, Michael felt extremely slighted because he'd poured so much of his heart in to it...and that fueled his determination regarding the production of Thriller.

Regarding his health in general, I think his medical problems began in 1984, after the accident on the Pepsi commercial set. His burns never healed completely, his pain remained constant, and his hair never grew back. As a result, he got hooked on painkillers, and things only grew worse from there. Some say that having any compulsive addiction makes you mentally unsound, but I disagree. We all have things we struggle with to various degrees, and Michael was no different. His insomnia was almost more legendary than his music - Katherine said she often caught him wandering Hayvenhurst at early hours in the morning. Others say he was crazy to go along with Evan Chandler's demands; while I'd agree it was unwise and reckless, you have to remember who Michael was and the kind of pressure he was under at the time. He thought that by settling with the family, the whole thing would be over and done with, never to be brought up again. Instead, he spent the last 16 years of his life trying to convince the world he was not a pedophile...and the American press was his worst public enemy in that regard. That's one reason why he never toured for the Invincible album, and the HIStory tour only included two U.S. dates, both in Hawaii instead of the mainland.

As for his drug dependencies, God only knows what caused him to become so intense with them. Folks still debate to this day whether Conrad Murray gave him the fatal injection, or if Michael did so himself. Personally, I have no idea, though I'd like to believe Michael's love for his kids prevented him from becoming suicidal. I just hope he's in Heaven with God & Jesus now, finally at peace like he always needed to be.

At the end of the day, we don't know the true extent/details of Michael's medical history. So, my thoughts are my opinion and your thoughts are your opinion and where the truth lies is anyone's guess. I'm certainly not attacking your take on the situation or saying mine is anymore valid (so please don't take it that way) but I'd like to say a couple of things.

1. The stigma surrounding mental health issues that persists to this day baffles me to no end. I'm not saying you are implying this but I feel that some people don't want to admit there may have been mental health issues because that would have made Michael "sick in the head" or weak. No, it would have made Michael like the millions of people who suffer from mental health issues all around the world. It is a reasonable assumption that Michael (at least in the last 10 years of his life) was suffering from depression and understandably so. He had antidepressants in his system at the time of his death. I also believe it's been stated he had a history of anxiety/panic attacks. And I think, I may be wrong on this though, that there were medications in his system at the time of his death that can be used for the treatment of anxiety/panic attacks.

2. Let me start by saying that I absolutely do not believe Michael committed suicide and I base that on the facts/circumstances surrounding his death. But I've read a few times on here people saying he didn't commit suicide because he loved his kids too much. People who ultimately take their own lives don't do so because they don't love their kids or their parents or their families. I hope people understand that.

I also remember hearing that Kenny Ortega tried to have a meeting with Conrad Murray to get Michael mental help during This Is It because he saw how bad things were but Murray refused.

 

[Moviefan2k4]

At the end of the day, we don't know the true extent/details of Michael's medical history. So, my thoughts are my opinion and your thoughts are your opinion and where the truth lies is anyone's guess. I'm certainly not attacking your take on the situation or saying mine is anymore valid (so please don't take it that way) but I'd like to say a couple of things.

1. The stigma surrounding mental health issues that persists to this day baffles me to no end. I'm not saying you are implying this but I feel that some people don't want to admit there may have been mental health issues because that would have made Michael "sick in the head" or weak. No, it would have made Michael like the millions of people who suffer from mental health issues all around the world. It is a reasonable assumption that Michael (at least in the last 10 years of his life) was suffering from depression and understandably so. He had antidepressants in his system at the time of his death. I also believe it's been stated he had a history of anxiety/panic attacks. And I think, I may be wrong on this though, that there were medications in his system at the time of his death that can be used for the treatment of anxiety/panic attacks.

2. Let me start by saying that I absolutely do not believe Michael committed suicide and I base that on the facts/circumstances surrounding his death. But I've read a few times on here people saying he didn't commit suicide because he loved his kids too much. People who ultimately take their own lives don't do so because they don't love their kids or their parents or their families. I hope people understand that.

I also remember hearing that Kenny Ortega tried to have a meeting with Conrad Murray to get Michael mental help during This Is It because he saw how bad things were but Murray refused.

My primary reason for addressing the "mental illness" issue is because I'm epileptic; have been for over 30 years. On top of that, I was also born with rare form of autism previously known as Asperger's Syndrome; it significantly affects how I perceive the world, and interact with those around me. I do not think Michael was crazy, but I do believe the various meds he took late in his life probably affected some of his thoughts. Every artificial treatment has side effects, and sometimes they conflict. The same happened with me in 2017, after taking a pill called Keppra for 8 years - I suffered a complete psychotic break. My cousin helped switch me to a different med, but it still took a full year for me to readjust.

As for the matter of suicide, only Michael and God know what fully happened on June 25th, 16 years ago. Conrad Murray testified that he injected Michael with propofol at 10:40 AM, and found him unresponsive shortly after...but security didn't call 911 until 12:21 PM. It was later discovered that Murray had started making personal phone calls a full hour after Michael stopped breathing, which is reckless beyond reason for a professionally trained doctor. So unless I'm missing something, we can't know for sure whether anything Murray said was true, because no one seems to have corraborated it.

 

[jasmine.uddin]

MJ was a man of deep faith in God, he would have believed in the sanctity of life, and that one cannot escape the problems of this world without being held accountable for his actions in the next world. I don't think his convictions in his faith can be disregarded when discussing suicide.

I do feel he was a victim of abuse his whole life, abuse from all those who needed to profit off of him, and I suspect he suffered severe PTSD from the life he had to live. Worst still, he probably didn't seek help because he grew up experiencing it all as his normal. It feels like there were always two MJs, the adored successful public figure, and then the truly tragic private one.

 

[Moviefan2k4]

MJ was a man of deep faith in God, he would have believed in the sanctity of life, and that one cannot escape the problems of this world without being held accountable for his actions in the next world. I don't think his convictions in his faith can be disregarded when discussing suicide.

I do feel he was a victim of abuse his whole life, abuse from all those who needed to profit off of him, and I suspect he suffered severe PTSD from the life he had to live. Worst still, he probably didn't seek help because he grew up experiencing it all as his normal. It feels like there were always two MJs, the adored successful public figure, and then the truly tragic private one.

I agree with you, and I don't share the terrible view of many that suicide is a one-way ticket to hell. Jesus does say in the Bible that an unpardonable sin exists, but I strongly doubt that's it. So for example, if someone accepts Christ at a point in their life, and then gives into despair in their last moments, will God condemn them for it? I don't think so, because He knows the depths of their heart.

But to stay on track, Michael was definitely abused - I don't care what PC term folks want to use now. Repeatedly hitting a child with a belt just because they sing a note wrong or miss a dance step isn't discipline, but cruelty. Even though Michael eventually forgave his father, I think he was right to be scared of him for many years. Even though they never divorced, Joe pretty much abandoned the family at a certain point, choosing to pursue other women instead of being faithful to Katherine - that's called adultery. Kids who come from broken homes often suffer great trauma - I know I did, as a child born with autism to a single mother whose man had left her beforehand. There was so much I missed out on, and that I was never taught, along with my condition making general interactions ten times more difficult. It would not surprise me at all, if news ever came to light that Michael himself was also autistic. Traits like insomnia, hyperfocus, an extensive vocabulary, and an extremely literal interpretation of what's around you are all par for the course.

 

[jasmine.uddin]

I'm sorry to hear about the trauma you experienced, it sounds like a brutally painful way to grow up.

Sadly, I think MJs trauma from his childhood played out for all to see. But he appeared to draw incredible strength from his faith, and I just think that's a factor that can't be ignored.

Also, I feel MJ was not solely abused by his father, he was relentlessly bullied by the press and exploited for financial gain all his life. Even the TII announcement reeked of a man being exploited by AEGs RP, he was slapped when he should have received help. It's like he never really escaped the conditions of his childhood.

Not sure about whether he displayed autistic traits, but he definitely blurred socially accepted standards for behaviour (baby dangle, sleeping arrangements). Whether that's due to a condition or his unique upbringing would be hard to distinguish now that he is long gone.

I think the real tragedy was that there was no one in the world who could relate to the unique life he experienced. Sometimes when we learn others have gone through similar experiences, we feel a sense of validation. Even though he befriended child stars, the type of success he experienced throughout his life was so unique to him, it's triumphs and trials probably felt extremely lonely and isolating.

 

[Moviefan2k4]

I'm sorry to hear about the trauma you experienced, it sounds like a brutally painful way to grow up.

Sadly, I think MJs trauma from his childhood played out for all to see. But he appeared to draw incredible strength from his faith, and I just think that's a factor that can't be ignored.

Also, I feel MJ was not solely abused by his father, he was relentlessly bullied by the press and exploited for financial gain all his life. Even the TII announcement reeked of a man being exploited by AEGs RP, he was slapped when he should have received help. It's like he never really escaped the conditions of his childhood.

Not sure about whether he displayed autistic traits, but he definitely blurred socially accepted standards for behaviour (baby dangle, sleeping arrangements). Whether that's due to a condition or his unique upbringing would be hard to distinguish now that he is long gone.

I think the real tragedy was that there was no one in the world who could relate to the unique life he experienced. Sometimes when we learn others have gone through similar experiences, we feel a sense of validation. Even though he befriended child stars, the type of success he experienced throughout his life was so unique to him, it's triumphs and trials probably felt extremely lonely and isolating.

Yes, my youth was largely terrible, in spite of some good memories. If you're familiar with the acronym "FUBAR", it definitely applied most of the time. I do agree about Michael's faith being very important to him, and the American press' brutality was beyond inexcusable at every turn. Other nations actually imprison journalists for pulling the kind of crap they often get away with here.

Michael dangling Bigi as a baby was definitely irresponsible, but the press took that moment and intentionally manipulated it, playing the footage back and forth repeatedly, to make it seem longer and more dangerous than it was. As for sharing his bed, some of his siblings said they did the same thing growing up, and never gave it a second thought. Michael admitted to having a strong Peter Pan complex, so his attitude toward many social norms was very different. There's no doubt he was a very lonely man; it's evident in songs like "She's Out of My Life", "Why You Wanna Trip On Me", "Who Is It", and especially "Childhood".