BEFORE YOU JUDGE ME (New Book on MJ's Last Days)

I agree with BBD that no fan is better than another-some of us adored and loved Michael since 1969 and never stopped; some of us discovered Michael a year or two ago, and are just as avid a fan, I think.

And even though I'm perplexed by the cryptic, mysterious messages that we get, I do agree with BBD and Girl that I think we all put Michael's health and happiness over any concert/album or whatever. He said many years ago that once he got married and had children, he would give up his career and enjoy his family. I know he put it off because music/art/film was the most important things to him for years-after 2005 he should have been able to retire in peace and live out the rest of his life watching and helping his children grow up.

We ALL wish that Michael was still here even if he never touched the stage again.
But I know BBD's type and the way they think.
If you did too you'd probably agree with what I said.

Eventually they'll slip up and say something to obvious, and they'll probably get banned from here.
 
Some people think of fandom like some type of video game with rules and levels... It does not work that way nor is it anyone's place to measure someone's admiration for someone or someone's body of work..

Fans come in all forms, and all love different things and in different ways.. there is nothing a fan should do or should not do to be considered a "fan" it's THAT persons choice to be a fan our not..

and at the same time there could be someone that loves MJ that refuses to call themselves a fan simply because the work comes from fanatic... which is not always a great thing to be labeled or thought of.. It's small!!
 
Of course he was. He spoke about it freely in the wiesner? depo and about getting help.not that u needed him to speak about it as it was obvious around 01/02
 
Some people think of fandom like some type of video game with rules and levels... It does not work that way nor is it anyone's place to measure someone's admiration for someone or someone's body of work..

Fans come in all forms, and all love different things and in different ways.. there is nothing a fan should do or should not do to be considered a "fan" it's THAT persons choice to be a fan our not..

and at the same time there could be someone that loves MJ that refuses to call themselves a fan simply because the work comes from fanatic... which is not always a great thing to be labeled or thought of.. It's small!!

K.
But if what Respect said is true then BBD DOESN'T have any business being an MJ fan.
It's one thing to criticize MJ but another thing entirely to bash him, and BBD has said things on here that lead me to believe what Respect said is true.
There isn't a criteria for being an MJ fan, but knowing not to bash MJ should come naturally to a fan IMO, and some things that BBD has said on MJJC are borderline to what their mindset is, which has given me enough insight and reason to not believe they're a true MJ fan.

Anywho this will be my last post about BBD in here because I feel as though this thread has become derailed.
 
I've read through the first 6 chapters so far....
 
K.
But if what Respect said is true then BBD DOESN'T have any business being an MJ fan.
It's one thing to criticize MJ but another thing entirely to bash him, and BBD has said things on here that lead me to believe what Respect said is true.
There isn't a criteria for being an MJ fan, but knowing not to bash MJ should come naturally to a fan IMO, and some things that BBD has said on MJJC are borderline to what their mindset is, which has given me enough insight and reason to not believe they're a true MJ fan.

Anywho this will be my last post about BBD in here because I feel as though this thread has become derailed.

What is the definition of a fan, a true fan

What constitutes being a true fan and who chooses whether someone is a fan or not

Who gets the right to set that criteria

How does someone inherit the right to say who's a fan or not

Is it based on an objective take or subjective

The thing about it, these type of conversations did not exist 30 years ago
 
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BBD - I vote that you are a fan... Even if we would argue about views on things!


2 votes for BBD fandom 1 against..


we're in the lead! lol
 
BBD - I vote that you are a fan... Even if we would argue about views on things!


2 votes for BBD fandom 1 against..


we're in the lead! lol
I vote that you are a fan too-even though we often disagree on things. A fan can be complimentary and critical of somebody-a non-fan is someone that bashes somebody with non-facts, and makes trash up, etc. like Princess referred to on LSA.

And BBD bought 'Invincible' when it came out. I didn't. :(
 
I hope you guys you would also agree that MJ fans who became fans after 1987 are not the most evil creatures in the whole universe. BBD surely knows why I say this. I know I said I would give it a rest, but since it keeps going on let me call out the hypocrisy because I cannot stand it. BBD said much worse things about post-1987 fans than calling them not real fans...
 
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Pink - if JJ abram said it in public it will make TV unless something crazy happens... It's an OK book, if I sat there and took everything to heart I could throw shade... but I literally read through the "story" to get to facts which is all I am taking away from it.. I'm 6 chapters in right now.
 
Tavis had a picture deal with Abrams for his books on MLK and Maya Angelou too-they haven't been made. Hopefully this book will just die.
I don't think any of these books in recent years have been any kind of blockbusters, have they? I think I would have heard about it.
 
^ hmmm I didn't know that... I still think this is more likely though because of the attention it's getting and the fact the OJ series was such a hit and they already have an umbrella to put it under Warner Bros. I would think if they are at that point, it's in works..

I don't know though!
 
At Michael's time of death, "In fact, the Los Angeles County coroner's report shows Jackson was a fairly healthy 50-year-old before he died of an overdose. His 136 pounds were in the acceptable range for a 5-foot-9 man. His heart was strong with no sign of plaque buildup. And his kidneys and most other major organs were normal.

Still, Jackson had health issues: arthritis in the lower spine and some fingers, and mild plaque buildup in his leg arteries. Most serious was his lungs, which the autopsy report said were chronically inflamed and had reduced capacity that might have left him short of breath.

However, according to the document, the lung condition was not serious enough to be a direct or contributing cause of death.

"His overall health was fine," said Dr. Zeev Kain, chairman of the anesthesiology department at the University of California, Irvine, who reviewed a copy of the autopsy report for the AP. "The results are within normal limits."

Jackson died at his rented Los Angeles mansion June 25 after his personal physician, Dr. Conrad Murray, administered the anesthetic propofol and two other sedatives and requires constant monitoring.

Aside from propofol and the sedatives, the only substances found in his system were the local anesthetic, Lidocaine, sometimes used to numb injection sites and ephedrine, a commonly used resuscitation stimulant.

No other drugs — legal or otherwise — were detected, nor was any alcohol.

Kain said he was surprised that three other sedatives, known as benzodiazepines, were present with propofol. Anesthesiologists sometimes mix one "benzo" with propofol to help put a patient under, but using three increases the danger for the patient.

"People don't mix the benzodiazepines together because they interact with each other and increase the risk of respiratory arrest," Kain said, adding it was likely Jackson first stopped breathing and then suffered cardiac arrest."

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/autopsy-michael-jackson-was-healthy/

As this article brings out, the three sedatives found in Michael's system increased the risk of respiratory arrest. Conrad Murray failed to monitor Michael constantly. Thus Michael died.
 
I'm pretty deep in the book, could be done today... I'll say IF you read It specifically for his research for the book, you can get stuff from it.. he date stamps and location stamps some stuff.
 
AliCat;4156167 said:
At Michael's time of death, "In fact, the Los Angeles County coroner's report shows Jackson was a fairly healthy 50-year-old before he died of an overdose. His 136 pounds were in the acceptable range for a 5-foot-9 man. His heart was strong with no sign of plaque buildup. And his kidneys and most other major organs were normal.

Still, Jackson had health issues: arthritis in the lower spine and some fingers, and mild plaque buildup in his leg arteries. Most serious was his lungs, which the autopsy report said were chronically inflamed and had reduced capacity that might have left him short of breath.

However, according to the document, the lung condition was not serious enough to be a direct or contributing cause of death.

"His overall health was fine," said Dr. Zeev Kain, chairman of the anesthesiology department at the University of California, Irvine, who reviewed a copy of the autopsy report for the AP. "The results are within normal limits."

Jackson died at his rented Los Angeles mansion June 25 after his personal physician, Dr. Conrad Murray, administered the anesthetic propofol and two other sedatives and requires constant monitoring.

Aside from propofol and the sedatives, the only substances found in his system were the local anesthetic, Lidocaine, sometimes used to numb injection sites and ephedrine, a commonly used resuscitation stimulant.

No other drugs — legal or otherwise — were detected, nor was any alcohol.

Kain said he was surprised that three other sedatives, known as benzodiazepines, were present with propofol. Anesthesiologists sometimes mix one "benzo" with propofol to help put a patient under, but using three increases the danger for the patient.

"People don't mix the benzodiazepines together because they interact with each other and increase the risk of respiratory arrest," Kain said, adding it was likely Jackson first stopped breathing and then suffered cardiac arrest."

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/autopsy-michael-jackson-was-healthy/

As this article brings out, the three sedatives found in Michael's system increased the risk of respiratory arrest. Conrad Murray failed to monitor Michael constantly. Thus Michael died.
This is why it ticks me off when some people want to say MJ was junkie. No he was not. Also, with the lung issue, that was a condition he had even when he worked on the movie "the Wiz" where he had to go to the hospital on the set. He talked about this either in Moonwalker or Right on Magazine.
 
^ Coincidence.. I open this thread as I read "Michael wasn't a junkie, he wasn't a junkie at all." it the book!!
 
This is why it ticks me off when some people want to say MJ was junkie. No he was not. Also, with the lung issue, that was a condition he had even when he worked on the movie "the Wiz" where he had to go to the hospital on the set. He talked about this either in Moonwalker or Right on Magazine.

Will I Am told the story of going apple picking on a horse, in Ireland, when he was hungry with Michael Jackson. That sounds like a healthy living life style!

MAY 04, 2009 - "I'm like, 'I'm hungry,'" Will recalled. "He says, 'Why don't you take the horse? Take the horse and pick apples. It's wonderful. We love doing it. The horses love going apple picking.' I'm like, 'All right, I'll f*cking go.' I swear to God. I'm on a f*cking horse. Michael Jackson's like, 'Wow, it's great.' The horse is picking apples. I'm like picking apples and junk, putting them in a bag. I'm like wow, this is like picking apples with Michael Jackson on horseback. Look at that sh*t, right?" http://www.starpulse.com/william-goes-apple-picking-with-michael-jackson-1847895321.html
 
My overall feel of the book is basically there are things that were.... I'm not sure how to express it but since it was told as a story, Tavis wrote in thoughts MJ was having which would only be 100% Tavis's perspective of what he felt MJ must have been thinking according to Tavis's view point.. Honestly what I took from the book on the positive end was dates, times, and location of specific events that give me a better visual of things... Aside from that, if those things do not matter to you, it's not a must read.. Def. some interesting stuff, but you have to read through some serious fluff to get to it.
 
I wouldn't waste my money on this. Another cash-in hatchet job at the expense of MJ. Also I don't buy the story that he is peddling about Prince grieving for MJ for 2 days etc, for someone he wasn't close with. He didn't do that for Vanity who was a girlfriend who passed away in Feb this year, who had he said in his own words "loved eachother deeply", and he didn't cancel the Melbourne shows (but did a tribute to her that was very emotional). I think Travis made that up to help sell his book.
 
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