Casio tracks

You can't prove a negative, the burden of proof lies on the ones making the positive claim. There's no footage of him recording those songs, he filmed everything since the Thriller era.
 
SmoothMJ said:
I'm confused though.

When am I allowed to believe what the family say, and when not?

Having read various comments on this forum, for many years, it's not exactly clear.

I believe MJ had a hand in all of these songs, although not 100% of course. Believing that, they are part of Michael's catalogue of work as far as I am concerned. As much as any other unfinished/part completed work.
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Here's a small hint, 'when you listen to those 3 abominations, that voice that sounds absolutely nothing like Michael Jackson? Yeah that ain't him. I don't think anyone really believes its him at this point including Sony or the estate.
 
I simply cannot fathom how these songs could be linked to Michael Jackson in any way.

Nowhere else in Michael's known catalog has he shown himself to be as thematically inconsistent, lyrically incompetent, and musically/melodically purloined as the Cascio recordings exhibit. He certainly created some underwhelming and subjectively "bad" songs in his lifetime, but they are at the very least competent. I cannot believe that for three months in 2007, Michael suddenly lost his creative instinct and thought to himself, "I'm going to co-wrote and record twelve songs that aren't only retreads of superior songs in my catalog, but directly reference them! We'll reuse the chords and beat to 'Stranger in Moscow'! We'll sing a few lines of 'Heaven Can Wait'! We'll repurpose the melody to 'On the Line!' We'll recreate the sudden mid-song tempo/genre change from 'Morphine'!"

SmoothMJ, you're correct that we can't prove that Michael WASN'T involved with the twelve songs... but doesn't that lack of evidence make you suspicious? These tracks are the only songs in Michael's catalog that we cannot directly link to him. The alternate vocal takes were apparently deleted, the handwritten studio session notes never emerged, Michael never discussed these collaborations with anyone he worked with afterwards, none of them were listed as tracks he intended to finish once in London...

The lack of evidence is telling. We would have seen something if there was anything.
 
SmoothMJ said:
I'm confused though.

When am I allowed to believe what the family say, and when not?

Having read various comments on this forum, for many years, it's not exactly clear.

I believe MJ had a hand in all of these songs, although not 100% of course. Believing that, they are part of Michael's catalogue of work as far as I am concerned. As much as any other unfinished/part completed work.
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I'm not here to beat you down that it isn't him, but I always just figured that it was obvious it wasn't/isn't him from the time you hit play on the songs.
OwE0Q_s-200x150.gif


Edit: Those vocals sound more like this than they sound like Michael.
 
Some things in life are so obvious that you don't need any proof. That is the case with Michael not signing on Cascio tracks. I don't understand how any MJ fan unless if they are new fans can claim that Michael is signing on the Cascio tracks. It's quite obvious after listening to those tracks once that those songs are sung by an imposer and not Michael. Michael had a very distinct and unique voice which can be imitated but never duplicated. Michael doesn't sign on the Cascio tracks and we don't any evidence to prove that. It should be quite obvious to every Michael Jackson fan.
 
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SmoothMJ said:
There are absolutely no FACTS, from birchey or anyone else, that Michael had NOTHING to do with these songs.
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I mean, the fact Michael wasn't even at the house when they said the songs were recorded, and the fact they changed their story a million times isn't at all sketchy, nope. The hard drive that had the "deleted files" on it actually never being used once isn't sketchy either, and the fact that the estate's statement was total fabrication also doesn't raise a few eyebrows, nope, this stuff usually happens.
 
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I believe Michael had enough to do with these songs in order for his friends to put them forward as his work.

You're all trying convince me that MJ never created anything whilst spending all that time with these people? His friends who were interested in music, and he didn't write a single lyric? That would be most unlike him as he was creating most of his waking life.

Sorry I'm not convinced that these are 100% not Michael. He's in them to some degree.
 
P.S.

I'm not just talking about the vocals, and I'm only talking about 3 songs, not 12.

Just to be clear.
 
Snow White luvs Peter Pan said:
You can't prove a negative, the burden of proof lies on the ones making the positive claim. There's no footage of him recording those songs, he filmed everything since the Thriller era.
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I don't think that works in this case. How would someone be able to prove something? The songs appeared on a Michael Jackson album so I think the burden of proof lies on someone who says that they are fake. I don't personally know if they are fake or not. I don't have opinion about it. I just don't listen the songs. :)
 
Galactus123 said:
I don't think that works in this case. How would someone be able to prove something? The songs appeared on a Michael Jackson album so I think the burden of proof lies on someone who says that they are fake. I don't personally know if they are fake or not. I don't have opinion about it. I just don't listen the songs. :)
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But surely that tells you something? If you don't listen to then it's either because you don't think they're Michael or because they're terrible songs.

(or both!)

And all this stuff about proof is crazy, anyone with ears knows it's not his voice. It's like proving the sky is blue, it just is.

I reckon he may have had something to do with them as in, they found a few scribble lyrics or someone remembers him singing them once or twice. But are we listrning to Michael Jackson recordings? No.
 
SmoothMJ said:
P.S.

I'm not just talking about the vocals, and I'm only talking about 3 songs, not 12.

Just to be clear.
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Saying 3 of the songs have anything to do with Michael but the rest don't is illogical. Either they're all him, as the Cascios claim. Or none of them are. All the songs were delivered by the Cascios to Sony, Cascios claimed all songs were recorded in the same span of time, at the same house. The three that were released aren't any different from the others, they all came from the Cascios and the three that were released just happened to be picked. That doesn't somehow make them different.
 
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SmoothMJ said:
I believe Michael had enough to do with these songs in order for his friends to put them forward as his work.

You're all trying convince me that MJ never created anything whilst spending all that time with these people? His friends who were interested in music, and he didn't write a single lyric? That would be most unlike him as he was creating most of his waking life.

Sorry I'm not convinced that these are 100% not Michael. He's in them to some degree.
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The story as presented is that the songs were written for Michael to record. MJ never wrote these songs.
 
SmoothGangsta said:
The story as presented is that the songs were written for Michael to record. MJ never wrote these songs.
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Link please.

As far as I am aware, Michael is listed as a writer/co-writer on all three songs.
 
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SmoothGangsta said:
Saying 3 of the songs have anything to do with Michael but the rest don't is illogical. Either they're all him, as the Cascios claim. Or none of them are. All the songs were delivered by the Cascios to Sony, Cascios claimed all songs were recorded in the same span of time, at the same house. The three that were released aren't any different from the others, they all came from the Cascios and the three that were released just happened to be picked. That doesn't somehow make them different.
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I only talk about the three songs I know about but, if what you say is true, then yes, all 12 must be songs that Michael had some sort of hand in.

I simply refuse to believe that Michael spent all of that time with this family (his friends), and yet had nothing to do with music whilst he was with them. Not only this, but that they grasped 12 songs - out of thin air - and pretended that Michael was involved with them in one way or another, when he wasn't.

These people were respected and trusted by Michael for decades. I'm not willing to throw them under the bus as easily as some on here. Not without more than just speculation and gut feelings.

You have people on here quoting things like "you can tell it's not his voice" like it's some massive revelation. We all know the songs are not 100% his vocals. These songs have had to be finished/made fit for human consumption in a big way. Where we differ is I do not agree with the statement that "Michael 100% had nothing to do with these songs".
 
SmoothMJ said:
I only talk about the three songs I know about but, if what you say is true, then yes, all 12 must be songs that Michael had some sort of hand in.

I simply refuse to believe that Michael spent all of that time with this family (his friends), and yet had nothing to do with music whilst he was with them. Not only this, but that they grasped 12 songs - out of thin air - and pretended that Michael was involved with them in one way or another, when he wasn't.

These people were respected and trusted by Michael for decades. I'm not willing to throw them under the bus as easily as some on here. Not without more than just speculation and gut feelings.

You have people on here quoting things like "you can tell it's not his voice" like it's some massive revelation. We all know the songs are not 100% his vocals. These songs have had to be finished/made fit for human consumption in a big way. Where we differ is I do not agree with the statement that "Michael 100% had nothing to do with these songs".
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They didn't just appear out of thin air, some were even written after he died. You seem to be ignoring their general sketchy behaviour, saying it was processing that made the voice like that, then changing it to he sang it through a tube, then saying he was unwell, even though we know he was healthy at that time. The fact that the hard drive with the supposed deleted outtakes had never actually been used before. The fact that the pro tools session for breaking news was filled with files called "mjsigh1" "mjscream2" which were samples from older MJ songs etc. You should really read the thread on it as there's too much to list here honestly. Also, you should listen to the rest of the tracks. They are blatant rip offs of older MJ tracks and are generally terrible. I don't see how you could think MJ had anything to do with them after you hear it. Soldier Boy has MJ beat boxing and screaming "no no" from tdcau in it, it's so blatant it's hilarious.
 
None of this proves Michael had NOTHING to do with the songs.

You just keep saying the same things over and over again. All guesswork and innuendo, but nothing that overcomes the fact that MJ was close personal friends with these people for decades, spent months with them, but - according to some of you - wrote/sang absolutely nothing in all that time.

Perhaps Michael became mute when in their company?
 
SmoothMJ said:
None of this proves Michael had NOTHING to do with the songs.

You just keep saying the same things over and over again. All guesswork and innuendo, but nothing that overcomes the fact that MJ was close personal friends with these people for decades, spent months with them, but - according to some of you - wrote/sang absolutely nothing in all that time.

Perhaps Michael became mute when in their company?
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It isn't guesswork just because it contradicts your viewpoint. I can't believe the fact that Michael may have written a sentence validates the existence of these songs for you. Let's just forget the clear fraud of hiring an impersonator to sound like MJ, then selling those songs to Sony. That's all fine as long as mj wrote on word of the lyrics. I think I'm done having this conversation as you're unwilling to research anything and want everyone else to give you the info. I can't converse with someone seriously about this topic if they are unwilling to do basic research or listen to the tracks in question. You seem very closed minded and don't want to look at both sides of the story. How can you say that we have no proof when the Cascios have provided zero proof of MJ recording those songs other than "oh yeah he came into my basement, sang into a pipe, oh he also recorded in the shower forgot to mention that earlier". There's absolutely no proof that it's MJ on those songs, or that he had anything to do with them for that matter. There is no evidence the songs are MJ. There wouldn't be as many contradictions as there are and as many outright lies being told if the songs were real.
 
SmoothMJ said:
Not only this, but that they grasped 12 songs - out of thin air - and pretended that Michael was involved with them in one way or another, when he wasn't.
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The Cascio tracks only became public knowledge in May 2010 -- a full eleven months after Michael's passing and seven months after fan speculation that his "Water, water..." ad-lib in This Is It came from an unreleased song. It's entirely plausible to assume that Cascio and Porte forged twelve demos over seven to eleven months, not to mention that several of the songs were likely pre-written ("Soldier Boy" was first penned in 2005).

These people were respected and trusted by Michael for decades. I'm not willing to throw them under the bus as easily as some on here. Not without more than just speculation and gut feelings.
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If there's one sad fact all Michael Jackson fans should come to terms with, it's that not even death can prevent Michael Jackson from behind used and abused by people he once trusted, respected, and (in some cases) loved.

Sources: Wade Robson, the Arvizo family, Jimmy Safechuck, the Chandler family, and Martin Bashir.

Where we differ is I do not agree with the statement that "Michael 100% had nothing to do with these songs".
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No lyric sheets. No session notes in Michael's handwriting. No reputable witnesses. No alternative vocal takes or outtakes. No photographs or video footage of Michael in the Cascio studio. No collaborators coming forward to say Michael spoke to them about the songs. None of the titles appear on the song lists found in his bedroom.

If you named me any Michael Jackson song known to exist, I could give you at least one of those things, if not all of them. Yet they simply don't exist for any of the twelve Cascio songs. This isn't circumstantial -- it's beyond suspicious.
 
AlwaysThere talking sense as usual. Great post.

Makin fakin breakin the neeeeewwws!

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
 
AlwaysThere said:
The Cascio tracks only became public knowledge in May 2010 -- a full eleven months after Michael's passing and seven months after fan speculation that his "Water, water..." ad-lib in This Is It came from an unreleased song. It's entirely plausible to assume that Cascio and Porte forged twelve demos over seven to eleven months, not to mention that several of the songs were likely pre-written ("Soldier Boy" was first penned in 2005).



If there's one sad fact all Michael Jackson fans should come to terms with, it's that not even death can prevent Michael Jackson from behind used and abused by people he once trusted, respected, and (in some cases) loved.

Sources: Wade Robson, the Arvizo family, Jimmy Safechuck, the Chandler family, and Martin Bashir.



No lyric sheets. No session notes in Michael's handwriting. No reputable witnesses. No alternative vocal takes or outtakes. No photographs or video footage of Michael in the Cascio studio. No collaborators coming forward to say Michael spoke to them about the songs. None of the titles appear on the song lists found in his bedroom.

If you named me any Michael Jackson song known to exist, I could give you at least one of those things, if not all of them. Yet they simply don't exist for any of the twelve Cascio songs. This isn't circumstantial -- it's beyond suspicious.
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Great post man. You always write so concisely whereas I rant for like a paragraph Hahaha.
 
So, in plain English let's just confirm.

You guys think that Michael had nothing to do with songs or song writing in the many months he spent with the Cascios?

And, because some so-called 'friends' turned on Michael, that means a family he was close to for 25 years sold him short for a few dollars?

Sorry. To me that's ludicrous in the extreme - until PROVEN (look it up) otherwise.

Some of you sound like those arguing that Michael was a sexual predator. It's all bits of innuendo and here say without any facts.
 
SmoothMJ said:
So, in plain English let's just confirm.

You guys think that Michael had nothing to do with songs or song writing in the many months he spent with the Cascios?

And, because some so-called 'friends' turned on Michael, that means a family he was close to for 25 years sold him short for a few dollars?

Sorry. To me that's ludicrous in the extreme - until PROVEN (look it up) otherwise.

Some of you sound like those arguing that Michael was a sexual predator. It's all bits of innuendo and here say without any facts.
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I don't read any of that. You're saying that just because people say those three songs weren't Michael that means he never wrote anything with the Cascios. People aren't saying that (although that may be the case), they're just saying those three terrible pieces of 'music' weren't Michael Jackson.
 
SmoothMJ said:
So, in plain English let's just confirm.

You guys think that Michael had nothing to do with songs or song writing in the many months he spent with the Cascios?

And, because some so-called 'friends' turned on Michael, that means a family he was close to for 25 years sold him short for a few dollars?

Sorry. To me that's ludicrous in the extreme - until PROVEN (look it up) otherwise.

Some of you sound like those arguing that Michael was a sexual predator. It's all bits of innuendo and here say without any facts.
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You're just ignoring every point we are making at this point. There is no proof the songs are Michael end of. It's up to the family claiming MJ sang on those songs to prove it and they haven't provided even a shred of evidence, have even lied and changed stories several times. Where are the facts that MJ is singing or had anything to so with those songs then? The fabricated statement from the Estate doesn't count as it was lies.
 
I'm bored of this now.

I think Michael made music/wrote songs whilst with his friends of 25 years and they didn't lie to make themselves a few dollars. Some of you don't agree.

That's it. Nothing else worth saying.
 
I wonder if anything is happening with that case against sony and the estate.
 
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